New some questions

Hi all
New to the game and forums and need some help answering some questions
Been reading various how tos and videos
I went to my local casino twice now after trying to learn craps for about a week and playing virtual on the woo flash version

My casino is $10 min 10x bets 3-4-5
Trip 1 cashed 60 and only -55 and trip 2 cashed 300 and only -135 total of 4hrs play

I was basically doing DP and DC with min bets and min odds on DP and place bet on point in case it rolls and lose my DP
All DC I did min place bets to try to zero any losses in case any rolls and hope 7 paid all the DC left on table
Sometimes threw field and 6-8 place bets which caused my losses and constant 7-11 on roll outs killing my DP

Anyways my Qs:
1) if I have Come and DC on table after point rolls waiting for roll out with no Odds on C and DC, can any be turned on without odds, or is ON only when you have odds on C and DC during rollout?

2) if I have DC after point hits with no odds and rollout is a 7, do I get paid my DC on table or is that all lost?

3) if point hits am I able to lower any come/dc or any place/lay bets,or any odds bets... or is all no touch with risk being lost on a 7 rollout?

Thanks

Quote: Dredogol

my Qs:
1) if I have Come and DC on table after point rolls waiting for roll out with no Odds on C and DC, can any be turned on without odds, or is ON only when you have odds on C and DC during rollout?

2) if I have DC after point hits with no odds and rollout is a 7, do I get paid my DC on table or is that all lost?

3) if point hits am I able to lower any come/dc or any place/lay bets,or any odds bets... or is all no touch with risk being lost on a 7 rollout?

terminology change: waiting for roll out waiting for come out roll

1]any bet that is off can be turned on
2]yes, darkside bets are always working
3]you can take any bet down except a pass line or come bet waiting to be resolved

Thanks odiousgambit.

As for free odds bets and payouts... do I have this correct for $10 table min?
PL $10 on 4/10 = FO $10 = 10+20 pay
PL $10 on 5/9 = FO $10 = 10+14 pay
PL $10 on 6/8 = FO $10 = 10+12 pay
DP $10 on 4/10 = LO $12 = 10+10 pay
DP $10 on 5/9 = LO $12 = 10+8 pay
DP $10 on 6/8 = LO $10 = 10+5 pay

And for Place Bets, are these the minimum? ... If so, what are the pay-outs on these?
4/10 = $10
5/9 = $12
6/8 = $12

Lay bets on DC I don't think I'll be doing those, or any Buy bets... might look into those later when I get more experienced.

Lastly... proposition bets... do I have these right?
Hard 4/10 ... $1 = $7 pay
Hard 6/8 ... $1 = $9 pay
Horn Bet ... $4 = (11) $15 - $3 = $12 pay
Horn Bet ... $4 = (3) $15 - $3 = $12 pay
Horn Bet ... $4 = (12) $30 - $3 = $27 pay
Horn Bet ... $4 = (2) $30 - $3 = $27 pay

World Bet ... could someone explain this one to me... I'm still confusing on what the Min bet and total payouts for this one is given a 7 or horn roll... it's at my casino.

Thanks.

Quote: Dredogol

Thanks odiousgambit.

You're welcome! The price you pay is to listen to my advice now LOL.

The reason others are not weighing in I think is because we have to decipher what you write. Use less abbreviations and get the lingo right.

You can and should try to get the answers at the Wizard of Odds. Anywhere it's a forum sometimes the advice you get is bad, and here this can be true especially for Craps.

Quote:

As for free odds bets and payouts... do I have this correct for $10 table min?
PL $10 on 4/10 = FO $10 = 10+20 pay
PL $10 on 5/9 = FO $10 = 10+14 pay
PL $10 on 6/8 = FO $10 = 10+12 pay
DP $10 on 4/10 = LO $12 = 10+10 pay
DP $10 on 5/9 = LO $12 = 10+8 pay
DP $10 on 6/8 = LO $10 = 10+5 pay

See the cross-outs, the rest is right. On the 5 or 9 the payout is 3 to 2 on the odds bet, so rightside that is $15 to $10. Darkside they would round off your $10 to $9 and pay $6. But they would take the $10 probably if you lost. Ask the dealer to help you make the right bet or just be sure your bet is divisible by 3 [or divisible by 2 rightside betting]

Quote:

And for Place Bets, are these the minimum? ... If so, what are the pay-outs on these?
4/10 = $10
5/9 = $12
6/8 = $12

I don't make these bets except rarely, and really only on the 6/8. For that one, the payoff is 7:6, so you would be OK with $12. The rest I'd have to look up, so I'll just ask you to do that. Bookmark this page below, sometimes anymore wandering through at the WoO site sucks.

https://wizardofodds.com/games/craps/basics/

Quote:

Lastly... proposition bets... do I have these right?
Hard 4/10 ... $1 = $7 pay
Hard 6/8 ... $1 = $9 pay
Horn Bet ... $4 = (11) $15 - $3 = $12 pay
Horn Bet ... $4 = (3) $15 - $3 = $12 pay
Horn Bet ... $4 = (12) $30 - $3 = $27 pay
Horn Bet ... $4 = (2) $30 - $3 = $27 pay

World Bet ... could someone explain this one to me... I'm still confusing on what the Min bet and total payouts for this one is given a 7 or horn roll... it's at my casino.

I don't make these bets either. The thing to know about a Craps table before you ever begin is that it is full of sucker bets. Ironically, it also has some of the lowest house advantage [HA] bets in the casino.

How high the HA is on a bet before you won't make it is a personal decision, but for many of us it stops at the 6/8 place bet. At the Wizard page you'll see it's a little more than the line bets.

The proposition bets are the worst because they are one roll bets. So when you make them, the HA is considerable and the betting goes fast.

Just don't make these bets.

I came across WoO before I ever made a bet in a casino, thus I was warned off these bets before I ever started. Now that you have come here I hope you too will see you have gotten smart and will be avoiding sucker bets. I have found that guys who learned at the casino from dealers, friends, and family learned to love the sucker bets and are hooked on them too hard to give them up if they later realize they are bad bets. You have come here just starting to learn the Craps table, so I hope you can get an inoculation for smarter Craps betting before it is too late.

Thanks again odiougambit

Yeah, I've read proposition bets have the highest HA and should be avoided since 1-time rolls.
Like that one youtube vid of 5 best craps best with John Grochowski by ACG.

I've been playing with WinCrapsPro last night (found WOO web version not very good).
Trying various systems... and so far I'm seeing plain old DC is the safest, and riding out (stop betting) when 3-4 DC on table... and just re-DC if it gets taken off with no Field, Come or Place bets.

I was also looking into the Come/DC betting (same bet on both) so if 1 lost, the net would be zero... but I'm seeing that method produces almost no profit in the long run...
I tried adding Field to that system... but found it also net to almost zero, in fact, greater loss in long run.

I'm currently checking if the best starting roll is Pass/DP same bet... since it gives 0 loss, plus if point rolls, the pass gives the credit... net zero.
First 2 times at casino, I was placing min bets on Point, and laying $10-12 on my dp line... but found out return is only 1/2... so in fact I was losing money in the long run that way.
Now I'm seeing if it's worth the risk to only place min DP with no Pass and no bets on point.

Do you play DP/DC method?

Quote: Dredogol

checking if the best starting roll is Pass/DP same bet

When I first started playing I watched someone do simultaneous pass/DP while placing the free odds only behind the pass line. I thought it made a lot of sense. I should have realized that something was up with the house allowing him to do that.

The thing to absorb here will save you oceans of grief if you "get it. " A lot of people never get it and quite a few work for casinos. And that is, one bet with negative expectation cannot neutralize another bet with negative expectation. Each such bet has an undefeatable expected value. If you add another bet, no matter what it is, it adds to the EV also in the negative column.

Stick around this site and you will see lots of suggestions for bet combinations and sometimes, like this example, initially they seem to make sense. You can confidently dismiss them without examination.

above was edited

Quote:

Do you play DP/DC method?

Quite often, recently concluding I still need to limit how much I put into action even when things look good.

I play rightside almost all the time, though, if the table consistently has players besides just me.

I'm starting to notice bets on both sides method is resulting in negative in long run.

So far, I've been using this method below... as long as I don't see constant same rolls on my DC bets.:

1) Come Out = $10 DP + $2 on Prop 7 only
----> (if 7 hits... -2 total... else lose 2)
----> (11 rarely hits, so oh well if it does, greater odds of 7 hitting)
2) After Point = $10 DC only... (if point hits... lose DP, but will balance out after next come out or 7, since DC is working)... minor losses
----> if point... return to 1
----> else goto 3
3) Next $10 DC only
----> if point... return to 1
----> else repeat 3... STOP once have 3-4 DC bets... ride it out... only repeat 3 if not enough DC on table... end results = pretty good payouts

Again, this method has been going pretty well is simulation tests... as long as I don't have repeat DC rolls and 11s

This strategy you outline is OK.

Quote:

$2 on Prop 7

Nix that. Hedging helps the House. How? It makes you bet more [the EV is piling up] and it lowers the variance. In order to keep from getting stung, you may think *you* want to lower the variance, but variance is your only hope in negative expectation. If you still want to lower it - some players do - I suggest just not putting so much into action.

Certainly do not choose "any 7", as that has the highest edge of all the bets I think.

Quote:

11 rarely hits, so oh well if it does, greater odds of 7 hitting

The dice have no memory. The past does not matter in Craps.