Not Tipping Until You are Whole
Poll
 | 24 votes (85.71%) | ||
| | 2 votes (7.14%) | ||
| | 2 votes (7.14%) |
28 members have voted
Quote: lostinspace...Most dealers make more (because of tips) than their supervisors.
MGM Detroit dealers are averaging $25-$30 an hour.
Quote: IbeatyouracesMGM Detroit dealers are averaging $25-$30 an hour.
They must have gigantic crews in D-town, as they change staff on the craps tables quite often.
I've no idea what the break schedule is for staff, however I'm inclined to believe that is less than an hour for each break.
Quote: lostinspaceThey must have gigantic crews in D-town, as they change staff on the craps tables quite often.
I've no idea what the break schedule is for staff, however I'm inclined to believe that is less than an hour for each break.
All tips from all games are pooled. This includes high limit. By 3am, most tip boxes are completely jammed.
Dealers at the three casinos do an hour then a 20 minute break. Relief does three 20's then a 20 break. This goes for all tables except live poker.
Quote: teddysDon't forget Detroit dealers also have a strong union contract. I ithink they are UAW. All three are union shops, I believe. (So is Caesars Windsor).
I'll ask my friend what his base pay is. And yes, the UAW represents the dealers in Detroit.
Quote: Ibeatyouraces
Dealers at the three casinos do an hour then a 20 minute break. .
When Soaring Eagle opened in the 90's,
they did a 20min break every 40min.
They were terrified of dealers making
mistakes from boredom.
Quote: EvenBobWhen Soaring Eagle opened in the 90's,
they did a 20min break every 40min.
They were terrified of dealers making
mistakes from boredom.
Since they're an Indian casino, all they have to do is arrest anyone paid on a mistake and make up some bogus cheating charges like Four Winds did.
Quote: IbeatyouracesSince they're (Soaring Eagle) an Indian casino, all they have to do is arrest anyone paid on a mistake and make up some bogus cheating charges like Four Winds did.
Soaring Eagle has many regular shooters that bet fair amounts.
I've seen some rather large payouts there, and although I've no reason to doubt your Four Winds story, it's difficult for me to imagine anything similar taking place at SE.
SE pit crews are amongst the most customer oriented I've seen any where.
Quote: EvenBobWhen Soaring Eagle opened in the 90's,
they did a 20min break every 40min.
They were terrified of dealers making
mistakes from boredom.
SE just lost a bunch of staff when the school season began. For a few weeks they were considerably short and some of the suits were working the tables.
I supposed they now have the management experience to detect and train personnel they did not possess in 1990.
Quote: lostinspace
SE pit crews are amongst the most customer oriented I've seen any where.
15 years ago, tribe members were getting $6000
a month from the casino. As more casinos opened,
it became less and less. Last I heard, about 3 years
ago, it was about $800 a month. Probably less
than that now. The casino takes in far far less
then they did before the other casinos opened
and they're sweating now. I wouldn't put anything
past them.
In 2012 they still had a mini bac table. We were staying
in the hotel and I asked if they would open the table.
A lady floor supervisor said OK and for 3 hours I played
$5 bac and drank my own vodka from the room.
I put 12oz of vodka in one of their 20oz cups and got
free water from the waitress and poured it into the cup.
Old trick.
Anyway, I was the only player and went up and down,
but more on the up side, until I was ahead $200. The
lady supervisor came over and said they were closing
the table. If looks could kill, I would have been six feet
under. She glared at me, not even trying to hide her
contempt as I colored up. I looked back a few times
as I walked away and she was talking in low tones to
the dealer, gesturing at me. They got rid of bac right
after that. They were actually sweating a lousy $200.
I forgot to tell her that I'm pretty good at bac. Oh well.
Quote: EvenBobI forgot to tell her that I'm pretty good at bac. Oh well.
How can anyone be "pretty good at bac?"
It's all luck, and the house has the edge on every bet.
Quote: MrVHow can anyone be "pretty good at bac?"
It's all luck, and the house has the edge on every bet.
Get a paper and pencil and I won't explain
it to you. I don't normally drink and gamble,
but mini bac is so easy because it's so fast,
I actually had fun doing it. I would never drink
betting more than that.
Quote: EvenBob15 years ago, tribe members were getting $6000
a month from the casino. As more casinos opened,
it became less and less. Last I heard, about 3 years
ago, it was about $800 a month. Probably less
than that now. The casino takes in far far less
then they did before the other casinos opened
and they're sweating now. I wouldn't put anything
past them.
I've spent loads of time there.
Never been to Firekeepers or anything on the west side of the state.
Been to all the Northern Reservations and SE beats them all hands down. . .and easily.
Quote: EvenBobIn 2012 they still had a mini bac table. We were staying
in the hotel and I asked if they would open the table.
A lady floor supervisor said OK and for 3 hours I played
$5 bac and drank my own vodka from the room.
I put 12oz of vodka in one of their 20oz cups and got
free water from the waitress and poured it into the cup.
Old trick.
Anyway, I was the only player and went up and down,
but more on the up side, until I was ahead $200. The
lady supervisor came over and said they were closing
the table. If looks could kill, I would have been six feet
under. She glared at me, not even trying to hide her
contempt as I colored up. I looked back a few times
as I walked away and she was talking in low tones to
the dealer, gesturing at me. They got rid of bac right
after that. They were actually sweating a lousy $200.
Perhaps they were just upset because of your minimal play?
$200 in their casino these days (whether slots or table games) is nothing. Not even a needle in the haystack.
Most of the table games at the Reservations are closed after a specific hour anyway.
SE has a few that are 24/7, but the majority are closed after last-call.
During June I made reservations for two rooms. As a result of a discrepancy and one of the rooms not being available on the same floor I was given an entire suite for free.
I was the only shooter one night at Odawa and was betting more than the minimum. Staff informed me that they were going to close their only craps table down in 30-minutes, to which I replied, "color me out and you may close now!"
Quote: EvenBob15 years ago, tribe members were getting $6000
a month from the casino. As more casinos opened,
it became less and less. Last I heard, about 3 years
ago, it was about $800 a month. Probably less
than that now. The casino takes in far far less
then they did before the other casinos opened
and they're sweating now. I wouldn't put anything past them.
There's been lots of renovation going on outside the front door (heated sidewalks, patios and approaches, along with expansion for valet parking) for nearly four months.
If they are doing so bad, than why bother with improvements?
Quote: lostinspace
$200 in their casino these days (whether slots or table games) is nothing. Not even a needle in the haystack.
In 2000. SE had 8 roulette tables. Then it was 6,
now it's 3 with one high limit table that's rarely
open. During the week you have to beg them
to open more than one table.
Last time I was there in June, they had half the
slots they had at their peak. There was a 20
sq yard empty space in the middle of the casino.
That's 3600 sq ft that used to be all slots. I went
once a month since last fall and the space never
got filled.
There is no way they are making anything close
to what they were 15 years ago.
Quote: EvenBobIn 2000. SE had 8 roulette tables. Then it was 6,
now it's 3 with one high limit table that's rarely
open. During the week you have to beg them
to open more than one table.
One roulette table is open 24/7, another opens late afternoon and remains until approximately last call.
Quote: EvenBobLast time I was there in June, they had half the
slots they had at their peak. There was a 20
sq yard empty space in the middle of the casino.
That's 3600 sq ft that used to be all slots. I went
once a month since last fall and the space never
got filled.
During June and July a portion of that space was used to store some new dollar machines that are now installed.
Quote: EvenBobThere is no way they are making anything close
to what they were 15 years ago.
I don't dispute that SE is not doing doing the business they were years ago, however they are in no way hurting or lacking for business. At least to the point where they would consider closing the doors.
Business during the week is pale in comparison to business on the weekends (or even a concert night).
Quote: lostinspaceOne roulette table is open 24/7, another opens late afternoon and remains until approximately last call.
.
Maybe now, but I was there once or twice a
month on Tue night, from Oct to June. All
that was open was the single zero wheel
and I had to beg them to open another
wheel. I was there on a Fri and they had
the regular wheel open in the back, which
is never open during the week.
From 98 to 2007 SE was the only MI that
was in driving distance and I went at least
twice a week. The did a renovation and
got rid of a bunch of tables and slots.
It's a shadow of what it once was. If
the tribe members were getting 6K a
month, and it dropped to $800 in 2012,
that right there tells the story.
I'm pretty good at keno.Quote:I forgot to tell her that I'm pretty good at bac. Oh well.
Quote: teddysI'm pretty good at keno.
Right. I would play mini bac if it was around
here, I'm not driving 90min for it. All we have
is midi, where it takes forever while they squeeze
the crap out of the cards. Takes forever for
just one hand.
Quote: EvenBobIn 2000. SE had 8 roulette tables. Then it was 6,
now it's 3 with one high limit table that's rarely
open. During the week you have to beg them
to open more than one table.
Last time I was there in June, they had half the
slots they had at their peak. There was a 20
sq yard empty space in the middle of the casino.
That's 3600 sq ft that used to be all slots. I went
once a month since last fall and the space never
got filled.
There is no way they are making anything close
to what they were 15 years ago.
The floor is finished. It's a giant aisle right down the center of the casino. But you're correct. It's nothing like it was when first opened. I remember all the tables they had, especially blackjack.
Quote: IbeatyouracesThe floor is finished. It's a giant aisle right down the center of the casino. But you're correct. It's nothing like it was when first opened. I remember all the tables they had, especially blackjack.
They had a woman CEO for awhile and dealers
tell me she did far more harm than good. For
one thing, she got rid of the free beverage
kiosk and it pissed off a lot of customers.
They got it back last spring. They were hurting
for money so bad, she saved a few pennies
by getting rid of free drinks? Right.
Quote: EvenBobThey had a woman CEO for awhile and dealers
tell me she did far more harm than good. For
one thing, she got rid of the free beverage
kiosk and it pissed off a lot of customers.
They got it back last spring. They were hurting
for money so bad, she saved a few pennies
by getting rid of free drinks? Right.
It's the only Mich Casino I've been to that doesn't have self-serve coffee.
It's free at the bar, however since it's a bar, tips are the protocol.
During heavy hours there are staff with carts that travel the casino dispensing drinks, however if you blink your eyes they are gone from the area.
Try getting a coffee from one of the bars after last call.
Quote: EvenBob15 years ago, tribe members were getting $6000
a month from the casino. As more casinos opened,
it became less and less. Last I heard, about 3 years
ago, it was about $800 a month. Probably less
than that now. The casino takes in far far less
then they did before the other casinos opened
and they're sweating now. I wouldn't put anything
past them.
In 2012 they still had a mini bac table. We were staying
in the hotel and I asked if they would open the table.
A lady floor supervisor said OK and for 3 hours I played
$5 bac and drank my own vodka from the room.
I put 12oz of vodka in one of their 20oz cups and got
free water from the waitress and poured it into the cup.
Old trick.
Anyway, I was the only player and went up and down,
but more on the up side, until I was ahead $200. The
lady supervisor came over and said they were closing
the table. If looks could kill, I would have been six feet
under. She glared at me, not even trying to hide her
contempt as I colored up. I looked back a few times
as I walked away and she was talking in low tones to
the dealer, gesturing at me. They got rid of bac right
after that. They were actually sweating a lousy $200.
I forgot to tell her that I'm pretty good at bac. Oh well.
lol...good story. And I bet Casino War was 3 deep the whole time...I've heard they love that game in Michigan.
Quote: beachbumbabslol...good story. And I bet Casino War was 3 deep the whole time...I've heard they love that game in Michigan.
They only have it at Motorcity in Detroit and it's usually full.
nobody was playing it. That was years ago.
Quote: EvenBobI've only seen War a few times in MI and
nobody was playing it. That was years ago.
MC is the only place I've seen it in the last few years. The temporary MGM here had it and actually dealt it from an 8 deck shoe. MC is a CSM.
Quote: RSIf I owned a casino in Detroit, there'd be 8 roulette tables, 8 war tables, 16 craps tables, no slots or players card, $0.50 for all drinks (malt liquor and the "blue motherf*****" drinks), Newports, and "cigarillos".
That would only fly in Detroit. A place I avoid.
Reminds me of this jokeQuote: Zcore13So you pay for your food at a restaurant which pays for the waiter or waitress pay, same as casino. So you don't tip at restaurants?
ZCore13
A blackjack dealer and a player with a thirteen count in his hand were arguing about whether or not it was appropriate to tip the dealer.
The player said, 'When I get bad cards, it's not the dealer's fault. Accordingly, when I get good cards, the dealer obviously had nothing to do with it so, why should I tip him?'
The dealer said, 'When you eat out do you tip the waiter?'
'Yes.'
'Well then, he serves you food, I'm serving you cards so you should tip me.'
'Okay, but, the waiter always gives me what I ask for or he doesn't get a tip. I'll take an eight.'
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I tip at table games(usually as I go), VP/slots, restaurants and all the other places people normally do. Sometimes I over tip or even tip people who normally don't receive tips. Sometimes I tip less than expected. If just me and my GF go to an expensive dinner, sometimes I only tip 10%. Usually I tip more than expected at cafes and diners. I never have a calculated set amount. I'm certain I have tipped much more in casinos than most.
Should someone tip at a table game if they haven't won a hand after 15 hands and they get up to leave?
My personal tipping habits isn't the point.
I just can't stand that it's expected(in some cases mandatory). I can't stand employees who don't appreciate every dam customer they have, tippers or not.
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Explain why someone should tip (whatever % is expected) on a $200 bottle of wine VS a $1500 bottle of wine? The same effort and service goes into both.
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Personally I believe they should do away with most tipping(not all). Businesses (especially gaming and restaurants) should pay its employees more. I don't agree businesses would NEED to pass the extra costs on to it's customers. First weed out employees who are only motivated by tips. Higher pay makes for better, happier employees. That makes customers happy and brings them back. The customers extra tip money gets spent at the business.
Quote: RSIf I owned a casino in Detroit, there'd be 8 roulette tables, 8 war tables, 16 craps tables, no slots or players card, $0.50 for all drinks (malt liquor and the "blue motherf*****" drinks), Newports, and "cigarillos".
You wouldn't make nearly as much as they do now. Remember MGM Detroit is one of the conglomerates most profitable locations.
I've been toying with incorporating my tipping with part of my betting pattern. I'll always place the 6&8 for $6 and press them only once. I'm thinking that having the dealer keep the extra $1 each time as my tip to them. I wouldn't have to worry about when it's appropriate to tip & through a few simulations I've run lately, it looks pretty close to $10 per hour. Too much? Too little? Too much of a pain in the butt for the dealers? Seems like it would get them rooting (maybe just a little bit) for those bets to hit & get pressed.
Any thoughts?
Thanks!
Quote: tomo0862First post - be gentle with me :-)
I've been toying with incorporating my tipping with part of my betting pattern. I'll always place the 6&8 for $6 and press them only once. I'm thinking that having the dealer keep the extra $1 each time as my tip to them. I wouldn't have to worry about when it's appropriate to tip & through a few simulations I've run lately, it looks pretty close to $10 per hour. Too much? Too little? Too much of a pain in the butt for the dealers? Seems like it would get them rooting (maybe just a little bit) for those bets to hit & get pressed.
Any thoughts?
Thanks!
I think that's pretty generous. It's similar to what I do (beginning craps player) except that I place bet 2-way on the 6/8, so they're on them from the start and get $2 if it hits. (the guys on here make fun of me as an over-tipper for doing this, btw, so while you're being generous, you're probably in a good range). Anyway, when it does hit, I like it a lot if they press theirs along with mine, I'll add a buck (making it $3), then if it hits pressing the $6 for true odds from there. Take winnings from there ($7), take it down (and in) when they want. I think most of them want to ride along unless the table's really cold. I could be wrong.
Quote: rudeboy99Look boys...I've worked as a table for table craps dealer for almost 30 years, all gratuities are appreciated. That said, it's not smart gambling to over tip in relation to your buy-in. Also it depends on your basic "unit" what denomination cheques you should be toking with. Additionally, I don't tip much for bad, unfriendly service... if I land on a table with sketchy dealers, and they aren't helping to make sure my action is right ( any dealer worth his salt should have your betting strategy figured out after a couple of shooters ), I won't generally do much for them while I'm playing, (maybe a hardway parley if the point is 4, 6, 8, or 10), but I will hand in something when I leave the table, win or lose. If you DON'T toke at all, Mike Vernon has written a pretty concise article http://www.dicesetter.com/mp/dmad126tip.htm titled "Is There Two Sets of Rules?" It's a real eye opener explaining some of the effects involved when you're a known stiff and when you are a known toker.
FWIW, I have been over-tipping on purpose, as a newbie, to ensure the dealers keep me in and up-to-date (I think of it as tuition). My perception is that it works for me, as they prompt me without scorn if I'm behind the rolls (like making sure I place odds behind my pass or whatever) in a timely fashion or honoring a call bet. I'm about there on my comfort level, where I can back down to a more moderate level, but I don't expect to go to a non-tipping stance unless I have a crappy crew (lol). In that case, it's likely I'll just step away rather than continue to play with jerks. Perhaps a female POV at a generally-male dominated game.
I think the casinos have gotten so stingy with comps, the players just won't tip anymore because they feel a bit angry. At least that's my theory.
