Not Tipping Until You are Whole

So... Overall I am down 4 grand.
I love the laying numbers strategy and Im riding it until I get my money back. But while Im on this journey would I be wrong to not tip until I get my money back?

Mustang Sally says she tips after every roll, and I took that and ran with it the first time. It was cool I had a skit load of fun. But I noticed that in addition to paying the vig upfront Im tipping an extra buck every roll is affecting my overall performance.

So I said to myself, it would probably benefit you more to tip at the end of play. Then I says youre not even whole yet youre not under obligation to tip.

Just wondering what you guys thought. Would I be rude not tipping?

Quote: OooLaHNee

So... Overall I am down 4 grand.
I love the laying numbers strategy and Im riding it until I get my money back. But while Im on this journey would I be wrong to not tip until I get my money back?

Mustang Sally says she tips after every roll, and I took that and ran with it the first time. It was cool I had a skit load of fun. But I noticed that in addition to paying the vig upfront Im tipping an extra buck every roll is affecting my overall performance.

So I said to myself, it would probably benefit you more to tip at the end of play. Then I says youre not even whole yet youre not under obligation to tip.

Just wondering what you guys thought. Would I be rude not tipping?

To me tips means "to insure proper service" and not to insure a gambling win. Are the crew making your experience better, are they being helpful with your bets, providing reminders? Whether you tip or not is your choice, just as the amount of service above the legal requirement is the crew's choice.

Quote: OooLaHNee

So... Overall I am down 4 grand.
I love the laying numbers strategy and Im riding it until I get my money back. But while Im on this journey would I be wrong to not tip until I get my money back?

Mustang Sally says she tips after every roll, and I took that and ran with it the first time. It was cool I had a skit load of fun. But I noticed that in addition to paying the vig upfront Im tipping an extra buck every roll is affecting my overall performance.

So I said to myself, it would probably benefit you more to tip at the end of play. Then I says youre not even whole yet youre not under obligation to tip.

Just wondering what you guys thought. Would I be rude not tipping?

Every roll is a little much if you are down in my opinion. I cover the hard numbers for$1 for the Dealers every time I'm the shooter though whether I'm up or down.


ZCore13

I tip on wins. That might involve making a passline bet for the dealers on the next come-out roll if I hit my point and I am the shooter.

If I am not the shooter and win on the Fire Bet I will give the dealers a tip based on that.

If I am not the shooter and win a lot because of a hot roll I will give the dealers a tip based on that.

If I lose I don't tip -- sorry.

At video poker I tip only on handpays.

In my observation, most craps players don't tip.

My suspicion is that at least half of the people I see at the tables are fairly new to the game and just don't have a clue about tipping or much else about the game.

The old hands who don't tip are cheap.

I tip.

I tip in craps more than any other game because I feel that the dealers are doing more work. They are doing the work I want them to do whether I win or lose, therefore they still get tips whether I'm up or down. I try to keep my mouth shut every time I hear someone say they can't tip because they're losing, especially when they say this to the cocktail waitress that just brought their drink order. I may tip other players whose roll wins me money (often by bumping up their odds bet) and I tip more frequently when I'm winning, but I tip for the dealers' service regardless.

How much or how often you tip should depend on how helpful the crew is being and how much work you are making them do. If you are only making a Pass Line bet, that's minimal effort from the dealer. If you are playing multiple Come bets with Odds, making multiple Place/Buy/Lay bets, and/or other multiple bets in the middle, you should tip more often for the dealer's extra work.

Handing in $1 after every roll may be "excessive". Maybe you could hand in a tip after being paid if that suits you better. I like to bet my tips, so that hopefully the dealers get some house money added on as well.

A popular dealer bet is on the bets in the middle of the table, such as Hardways or craps: "Two-way 6!" "Two-way yo!"

I do two-way Hardways on the sporadic occasion that I feel like making a Hardway bet, but my normal dealer bet is alongside my Line bet. Simply place $1 a few inches to the left of your Line bet, and follow it up with Odds.

Last weekend, I started making dealer bets by making a Place bet on 6 & 8 for $6 each. They really liked that bet.

You could also put $1 or more on the table and tell the dealer "This is for you, do what you want with it." Some dealers like betting the tips for the chance to get more money and each has their preference for what to bet it on.

I'm sure I will get flamed for this and this isn't popular but I'll just say it. I don't understand the point of tipping at -EV table games when losing.

Why should I tip for the "service" of fleecing me. I tip at the poker table because without the dealers I wouldn't have a place to make my living, so I tip because that service is important to me. at a pit game I'm basically getting fisted by the casino. On top of losing why should I subsidize the dealers because they are too cheap to pay them a good wage?

fWIw if I was involved in an advantage play in the pit I would tip, however. Not tipping when I'm losing thousands though.

This is probably why I don't play table games :)

Quote: MrV

In my observation, most craps players don't tip.

In my observation most craps players lose, lose, lose.

So why should they tip?

Quote: Hoodstar

I'm sure I will get flamed for this and this isn't popular but I'll just say it. I don't understand the point of tipping at -EV table games when losing.

Why should I tip for the "service" of fleecing me. I tip at the poker table because without the dealers I wouldn't have a place to make my living, so I tip because that service is important to me. at a pit game I'm basically getting fisted by the casino. On top of losing why should I subsidize the dealers because they are too cheap to pay them a good wage?

fWIw if I was involved in an advantage play in the pit I would tip, however. Not tipping when I'm losing thousands though.

This is probably why I don't play table games :)

Poker is a table game. Couldn't help myself. :)

Quote: AlanMendelson

In my observation most craps players lose, lose, lose.

So why should they tip?

So then, when you go out to eat at a restaurant, do you tip?

Why?

Within a day or so you will "lose" the meal you ate, so by your logic, why tip?

I tip win or lose, at the casinos I play at regularly, anyway.

When visiting Las Vegas I don't tip much for short hit and run sessions at a plethora of casinos, but I usually leave a hand in if I am up at the table.

Funny thing: when dealers make mistakes quite often they are in my favor, like leaving up come bets after a natural on a subsequent come out roll.

Is there a connection?

Yes, I think there is.

Quote: MrV

So then, when you go out to eat at a restaurant, do you tip?

Why?

Within a day or so you will "lose" the meal you ate, so by your logic, why tip?

I tip win or lose.

It's the right thing to do.

You can't talk logically with non-tippers.

Me: Lose $95 play $5 for the dealer while I do it.
Non-tipper : Lose $95. Can't afford to tip because I'm losing. Lose the other $5. Dealer didn't need a tip. He's just doing his job.

But casino nin-tipper will tip waiter/waitress even though they are just doing their job. Heck, They'll tip them 10%-20% of the bill total, even thought the bill total has no relevance to the service being provided.

Taxi drivers just do their job too. And so to valet people. But you rarely hear anyone say they can't tip those people because they are not up for the day.


ZCore13

I never tip till I color up. In the old days,
before dealers split tips, I would tip
during play. But now, what's the difference.
It all just goes into one big pot, what does
it matter when you tip.

Quote: MrV

Funny thing: when dealers make mistakes quite often they are in my favor, like leaving up come bets after a natural on a subsequent come out roll.

Is there a connection?

Yes, I think there is.

Just to be clear, you are hinting that these 'mistakes' are no mistakes. That makes it a crime. If there is a connection to your tipping, then that is collusion.

Quote: MrV

So then, when you go out to eat at a restaurant, do you tip?

Why?

Yes, I tip generously in restaurants. If you want to tip in casinos when you lose please continue to do so. I am sure you are loved by the dealers.

You should tip, win or lose. Best to tip through out play. In a game like craps, I like to put a few dollars on my odds bet (usually $1 or $2)...if the bet wins, they get the winnings and I keep the original $2. That is if the point is an outside number. If it's a 6 or 8, then I'll just throw in a couple bucks [if/when it wins], without that extra $2 on top...since $2 just pays even money.

On a game like BJ, put out a $1 every now and then.

In a game like UTH, MS, Pai-Gow, etc (ie: carnival games), every now and then put a $1 bet out for the dealers either next to or on-top of yours. Or in a game like MS (specifically MS where wins are rarer), just hand-in a couple bucks every time you win (or every other win or every third win).


Most of the time, there's really no good reason not to tip. As a semi-frequent player would say, "If you can't afford to toke, you can't afford to play." $5 or $10 an hour really isn't that much. Don't look for an excuse not to tip. If you're not gonna tip, then at least be honest to yourself (and others)....just say you're a flea and you don't wanna tip. But don't tip the waiters, bartenders, waitresses, etc. but decide you wanna stiff the dealers. I know some dealers would (or used to)....when a known stiff would buy in at the table for $100, the dealer would pull out a stack of red, drop 1 red chip, cut out $5 in singles (so $95 in red, $5 in singles), send it off to the player, but palm the top red chip...giving the player $95 total ($90 red $5 singles) instead of $100 total ($95 red, $5 in singles). But that's only the start.


If you're not playing with an advantage, then you have no expectation to leave a winner. Don't tip based on that. That's like me saying I'll tip the waitress if she lifts up her shirt and flashes me --- it ain't gonna happen!

Quote: EvenBob

I never tip till I color up. In the old days,
before dealers split tips, I would tip
during play. But now, what's the difference.
It all just goes into one big pot, what does
it matter when you tip.

Because they want MORE tips. Also, if you wait until the end before you tip there's a chance you'll lose everything and have nothing to tip.

Oftentimes people tip with low to mediocre service because they feel guilty and it's expected. Expected Tipping
helps cause worst service over all.

I'm not pro or anti tipping. I am anti people who like to tell other people what they should do with their own money. I do believe we would do far better without tipping.

People who work for tips need to quit whining or get a different job. People who whine about tips wouldn't be employees I wanted in my business.

If you secretly followed around everyone who works for tips, and you tipped like the actually do, I bet tipping percentages would drop drastically. They depend on the people who who make good money and don't work for tips.

Quote: Zcore13

You can't talk logically with non-tippers.

Me: Lose $95 play $5 for the dealer while I do it.
Non-tipper : Lose $95. Can't afford to tip because I'm losing. Lose the other $5. Dealer didn't need a tip. He's just doing his job.

But casino nin-tipper will tip waiter/waitress even though they are just doing their job. Heck, They'll tip them 10%-20% of the bill total, even thought the bill total has no relevance to the service being provided.

Taxi drivers just do their job too. And so to valet people. But you rarely hear anyone say they can't tip those people because they are not up for the day.


ZCore13

I don't understand why I/we have to pay the dealers/ waitresses/ waiters cab drivers etc etc twice? Once when we pay for the meal, ride or gamble. Second when we tip.

We the customers pay 100% of the casino, cab and restaurant employees wages. So every time a customer, tipper or not ,uses a service, the employees should be grateful.

Question: Why have tipping at all?

Quote: RS

You should tip, win or lose. Best to tip through out play. In a game like craps, I like to put a few dollars on my odds bet (usually $1 or $2)...if the bet wins, they get the winnings and I keep the original $2. That is if the point is an outside number. If it's a 6 or 8, then I'll just throw in a couple bucks [if/when it wins], without that extra $2 on top...since $2 just pays even money.

On a game like BJ, put out a $1 every now and then.

In a game like UTH, MS, Pai-Gow, etc (ie: carnival games), every now and then put a $1 bet out for the dealers either next to or on-top of yours. Or in a game like MS (specifically MS where wins are rarer), just hand-in a couple bucks every time you win (or every other win or every third win).


Most of the time, there's really no good reason not to tip. As a semi-frequent player would say, "If you can't afford to toke, you can't afford to play." $5 or $10 an hour really isn't that much. Don't look for an excuse not to tip. If you're not gonna tip, then at least be honest to yourself (and others)....just say you're a flea and you don't wanna tip. But don't tip the waiters, bartenders, waitresses, etc. but decide you wanna stiff the dealers. I know some dealers would (or used to)....when a known stiff would buy in at the table for $100, the dealer would pull out a stack of red, drop 1 red chip, cut out $5 in singles (so $95 in red, $5 in singles), send it off to the player, but palm the top red chip...giving the player $95 total ($90 red $5 singles) instead of $100 total ($95 red, $5 in singles). But that's only the start.


If you're not playing with an advantage, then you have no expectation to leave a winner. Don't tip based on that. That's like me saying I'll tip the waitress if she lifts up her shirt and flashes me --- it ain't gonna happen!

A full time BJ player would be giving out 10k a year.

Now I want to know if any dealers give out and 10k a year because they choose to be a dealer.

Quote: AxelWolf

A full time BJ player would be giving out 10k a year.

Now I want to know if any dealers give out and 10k a year because they choose to be a dealer.

BJ player would also be making at least $200K+ a year (assuming 2,000 hours a year). I couldn't imagine a full time BJ player playing for less than $100/hour. At least I wouldn't do it. Of course, there are always exceptions, and I wouldn't advise someone to (over) tip if they are playing for a small hourly.

Not sure what the second comment means, exactly. I don't know of any dealer that plays as much as even a part-time AP, let alone 1-2K hours in a year. The few times I have played with dealers [going off of memory], I'd say almost all of them tip more than $10/hour. But they probably only play 100 hours a year (or ~2 hours a week).

Quote: kewlj

Just to be clear, you are hinting that these 'mistakes' are no mistakes. That makes it a crime. If there is a connection to your tipping, then that is collusion.

It would probably have to be premeditated/spoken rather than de facto to have a provable case.

Quote: Mission146

It would probably have to be premeditated/spoken rather than de facto to have a provable case.

I agree. Which is why if/when you tip based on dealer mistakes, DON'T DO IT IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE MISTAKE!!!

Quote: MrV

In my observation, most craps players don't tip.

I tip, win or lose, but only when I color up. Almost needless to say, I tip more when I win than when I lose.

I also tip directly, as opposed to "boxcars for the boys ("and the lady," when appropriate).

Quote: AlanMendelson

Yes, I tip generously in restaurants. If you want to tip in casinos when you lose please continue to do so. I am sure you are loved by the dealers.

Why tip "geneously" to a stranger who slings hash, and stiff a dealer, someone with much more personal interaction with you than a waiter / waitress?

You seem a slave to social convention.

Think outside the box: think "karma."

I don't tip because it is expected, I tip for service just as I would at my favorite restaurant or bar. I have found you don't even have to tip big to get good service, just a dollar here and there and the dealers will make sure that I don't forget my odds or double check if I am not up on a number that I have been playing.

The last dozen or so tables I have played at, I have categorically refused to tip at two or three. If the crew isn't going to put anything into it, I'm not going to tip them.

When I am doing poorly, the dealers might get $5 an hour out of me. When I'm doing well, $10-15. I overtip when I'm on a serious run, it's something I have to work on. I think the dealers expect cold tables to tip less, but I don't like to completely forego tipping on bad runs unless we get a PSO five time in a row or something like that.

Pass line + Optional odds is my preferred way to tip.

Quote: MrV

Why tip "geneously" to a stranger who slings hash, and stiff a dealer, someone with much more personal interaction with you than a waiter / waitress?

You seem a slave to social convention.

Think outside the box: think "karma."

Don't bring the Karma thing back again, please. It's (it has) been mostly quiet for awhile now....
The tip thing always remains. Tips are optional, tip if you want to, don't if you don't.
That's why they call them "tips" perhaps ;-)

Quote: Mission146

It would probably have to be premeditated/spoken rather than de facto to have a provable case.

A case doesn't need to be proven or be 'provable' for me to know it's wrong. I don't need to be convicted of murder to know that killing some one is wrong.

Nothing need be premeditated or spoken either. If your tips 'leads' to regular dealer mistakes or even something like dealer flashing hole card, you are colluding with the dealer to cheat.

I am not speaking of you specifically, Mission, but it amazes me how decent people who were taught and know right from wrong, all of the sudden get confused on the issue or have grey areas that are conveniently acceptable, when dealing with money. I swear walking through the casino door, brings out the worst in people.

I generously tip those who I feel deserve it. Sorry blackjack dealers. My money my rules.

If a dealer pays me incorrectly in the hopes of receiving a tip, I leave the table. It happens from time to time and I want no part of it. It amazes me as well.

Quote: kewlj

A case doesn't need to be proven or be 'provable' for me to know it's wrong. I don't need to be convicted of murder to know that killing some one is wrong.

Nothing need be premeditated or spoken either. If your tips lead to regular dealer mistakes or even something like dealer flashing hole card, you are colluding with the dealer to cheat.

I am not speaking of you specifically, Mission, but it amazes me how decent people who were taught and know right from wrong, all of the sudden get confused on the issue or have grey areas that are conveniently acceptable, when dealing with money. I swear walking through the casino door, brings out the worst in people.

I could be wrong, mostly because I speak from a position of very small exposure, but with tips generally pooled I find it hard to imagine that this particular type of collusion is a major concern for the 'resorts'. I would be willing to bet they still watch for it, even odds on the bet ;-)

Quote: 1BB

I generously tip those who I feel deserve it. Sorry blackjack dealers. My money my rules.

If a dealer pays me incorrectly in the hopes of receiving a tip, I leave the table. It happens from time to time and I want no part of it. It amazes me as well.

I just want to clarify your first statement. Does "Sorry blackjack dealers" mean you don't tip BJ dealers, as I suspect when I read it?

That first line, as I read it is exactly my own position. People on this and other sites want to paint me as a cheapskate, but that is far from the truth. I am a very generous tipper in most situations. I just don't share the view that dealer is one of those 'deserving' type positions and that IS my call. I am not the least bit surprises my view is similar to yours.

Ahhh, another tipping thread.

I have incorporated tipping janitors in my genre. And as I have mentioned before, the voice in my head tells me " you said it, and there's a janitor, so tip". I caught two out of 3 guys cleaning mens rooms the other day, It was almost like I hit sweeps hour. I justified not tipping the 3rd because he was deep in conversation with some other patron.

I seem to be a compulsive tipper? More, if I like the crew [craps] or if I am winning, less if they are completely unlikeable.

What gets to me is the endless chatter about nonsensical dealer opinions or the same old, same old "ten on the end" or "Ozzie and Harriet, square pair". It also seems the best dealers migrate to swing shift? The ones who only think they are a gift to craps players work days.

I think I tip because it makes me feel good about me? A red chip player doesn't change a dealers life much, especially when tips are pooled.

I usually put them in when I'm tossing, or on a HW on a 6-8 if they are enjoyable and I'm feeling generous. If I were to stiff the crew, that would speak to my behavior. Sometimes when a stick is being a particular ****, I like looking him in the eye and placing a bet for them. I like telling them "dealers are in" even if it's only a buck, it changes the dynamic. I have even offered to put them in if they shut up :].

Tipping or not, my play is about me, it's whatever makes me feel right, not about the baby's new shoes.

Quote: kewlj

I just want to clarify your first statement. Does "Sorry blackjack dealers" mean you don't tip BJ dealers, as I suspect when I read it?

That first line, as I read it is exactly my own position. People on this and other sites want to paint me as a cheapskate, but that is far from the truth. I am a very generous tipper in most situations. I just don't share the view that dealer is one of those 'deserving' type positions and that IS my call. I am not the least bit surprises my view is similar to yours.

You are correct. I do not tip blackjack dealers for several reasons which I've discussed in the many other tipping threads here. Nor do I slink away from the table at the end of a session. I look them right in the eye and wish them a nice day. As long as tips are pooled and there is one dealer in the house that doesn't meet my very low standards, they get nothing.

By the way, what's with tipping only after a win? That seems a little hypocritical to me. No offense to anyone.

Quote: 1BB

By the way, what's with tipping only after a win? That seems a little hypocritical to me. No offense to anyone.

Ya know this is a simple yet very powerful point that I have not seen addressed. How can the many members who talk about tipping for service, justify tipping only after a win? The service is the same, just different results and that is no fault of the dealer.

I know I tip the same win or lose. :)

Quote: 1BB

By the way, what's with tipping only after a win? That seems a little hypocritical to me. No offense.

One thing I did notice about this method of play is you have to know what you are doing i.e. amount to bet and expected payout. In addition laying numbers makes em work a lil harder than usual because not a lot of people bet like this. It felt good to tip because they had a newbie that they were teaching on the spot, and he was a lil confused. By tipping after every win I wasnt the bad guy holding everybody up because I wanted to bet different. They made mistakes I still tipped.

My only downfall I would say is only one dealer asked me if I wanted to stay up on my bet. The rest automatically took them down after I won. I know I missed at least 5 7s on the comeout because of this.


In essence I think Im just going to tip at the end of my hit and run. I was extremely generous the first time, got great service enjoyed myself but I cant stop thinking that I may have had an extra hundred bucks.

Oh and since lay sounds like place in a crowded noisy casino it is better to say no 5 or no whatever your number is.

When playing blackjack I typically tip pink chips when I get them. So if I get a blackjack with $25 up I'll play $2.50 for the dealer. Dealers seem to appreciate this and they are genuinely happy when they deal me a blackjack because they know they'll usually get some action.

Quote: kewlj

A case doesn't need to be proven or be 'provable' for me to know it's wrong. I don't need to be convicted of murder to know that killing some one is wrong.

That's fair, but I wasn't taking a moral position. I certainly wouldn't tip to encourage a dealer to cheat on my behalf, I'd be tipping, anyway. That said, nor am I going to correct a dealer who is making mistakes on my behalf on bets that I would also be making anyway. Of course, if security or someone else comes and asks for the money back stating I had been paid it incorrectly, (or losing bets stayed up) then I would do that.

It's not my job to inform the dealer that he's making mistakes that benefit me, though. It's the dealer's job to not make mistakes.

Quote:

Nothing need be premeditated or spoken either. If your tips 'leads' to regular dealer mistakes or even something like dealer flashing hole card, you are colluding with the dealer to cheat.

If not premeditation or verbal agreement, then what is your standard for that? Does it have to happen more than once? Six times? I'm not trying to be smart, but it makes the very act of tipping sound like a potentially hazardous act. What if the player legitimately doesn't know he/she is being unfairly benefited?

Quote:

I am not speaking of you specifically, Mission, but it amazes me how decent people who were taught and know right from wrong, all of the sudden get confused on the issue or have grey areas that are conveniently acceptable, when dealing with money. I swear walking through the casino door, brings out the worst in people.

Again, I wasn't speaking from a moral standpoint. I probably should have tossed out the standard IANAL caveat, but I think you would have to have premeditation, verbal agreement or confession (by the player) for the casino to have a cause of action. Even the casino pointing out the pay errors and the player refusing to return the chips is probably something else altogether. Essentially, you have to prove that the player not only had knowledge of the erroneous pays, but also that he knew why he was being paid erroneously.

Ok, first of all, I was not familiar with the IANAL abbreviation. I had to look it up to figure it out. At first glance, I thought maybe you left a little "heart' symbol out between the I and A and were sharing some personal deep secrets. Lol.

Maybe I have crossed over, taking the discussion into some 'moral grounds' territory. But there is a line between APing and cheating and sometimes it's a fine line and it is fairly easy to get hung up and cross that line. That's were personal morals comes in. So morals is always there in this discussion and this environment.

No certain number of times an incident must occur for you to know it's wrong or at least for me to know it's wrong. If I tip by placing a bet for dealer and we both push a hand we should have lost, is that proof of anything? Of course not. Two hands later I tip and dealer flashes hole card. Coincidence? Maybe. Maybe not. But that would be enough for me, I'm out of there. I just want no part of anything along those lines.

Early in my career, playing what was then Trump Marina in Atlantic City (now Golden Nugget, I believe), I was playing $25 table with 3 other players. New dealer came on, and you could tell right away he was very green. Slow, methodical motions. I think he broke the first hand, but second hand he draws a 19 or 20 from his stiff and proceed to pay everyone who still had chips up even though most of us had stiff hand (looking for him to break). A couple hands later, same thing. It became instantly clear to me that if he had a pat hand like 20, payoffs were normal, but if he had to draw cards but still made his hand of anywhere from 17-21, he would pay off everyone that remained in the game, similar to if he had broke.

I don't know if others at the table knew exactly what he was doing as I did, but they surely knew he was paying off some losing hands. I immediately exited, not wanting any part of what was going to happen. The others were raising their bets and fighting for the extra spots including mine when I exited. I moved to a table across the pit. About 10 minutes later there was all sorts of commotion. Half dozen uniformed security another half dozen suits. All hell had broken loose. The suits were on pit phone and on cell phones, they were writing all sorts of things down as they questioned the three players, who weren't handcuffed or anything, but clearly weren't allowed to leave, while they were attempting to figure the whole mess out.

I have no idea the outcome. I suspect reviewing the tapes, surveillance figured out what each person owed as best they could. Could they arrest them for cheating? stealing? receiving stolen property? I have no idea. I just knew early on, it wasn't a situation that I wanted any part of. That's not APing and that's not how I want to win.

Quote: kewlj

Ya know this is a simple yet very powerful point that I have not seen addressed. How can the many members who talk about tipping for service, justify tipping only after a win? The service is the same, just different results and that is no fault of the dealer.

I know I tip the same win or lose. :)

If you tip only after a win it is effectively the same as making a bet for the dealer.

If I tip the dealer with a bet and it loses, virtually every dealer or ticket writer in every casino will appreciate it, even though the financial result is the same as if I were a complete stiff. If I instead slide $1 or $2 to them only after a win and stiff them on a loss, it is exactly the same as if I had bet 50-cents or $1 for them

I hope dealers understand that I tip when I lose so don't expect more than my usual tip if I win big. Things that make me tip bigger is if I'm playing a game I'm unfamiliar with and they were understanding and helpful. Craps crew that just chats amongst each other and barely bother to call out the roll can look in the couch for lose change.

Also if I dealer gives me bad advice on a game I am familiar with , I tip them on the bet they advised me to place.

Americans who tip in Japan not welcomed.

Last year, getting out of a cab in Kyoto, I paid my fare and tried to give the driver a tip. His face winced as though I had insulted him and, to my surprise, he insisted on giving my change. All of it. The same happened with the bellman who helped me with my bags at the hotel. Looking curiously at the yen I pressed into his palm, he asked, “This is for me?”

They don’t tip in Japan and, after interviewing servers on both U.S. coasts, tipping doesn’t seem to be much of a tradition among visitors from the British Isles or continental Europe.

But if you cross the pond and plan to skinflint your way through America’s cities, you’d better be prepared for a cool reception. In the U.S., not only is it custom to tip for good service, many service industry livelihoods depend upon it.

http://www.citypass.com/blog/tips-tipping-tipping-tendencies

Quote: Deck007

Americans who tip in Japan not welcomed.

Last year, getting out of a cab in Kyoto, I paid my fare and tried to give the driver a tip. His face winced as though I had insulted him and, to my surprise, he insisted on giving my change. All of it. The same happened with the bellman who helped me with my bags at the hotel. Looking curiously at the yen I pressed into his palm, he asked, “This is for me?”

They don’t tip in Japan and, after interviewing servers on both U.S. coasts, tipping doesn’t seem to be much of a tradition among visitors from the British Isles or continental Europe.

But if you cross the pond and plan to skinflint your way through America’s cities, you’d better be prepared for a cool reception. In the U.S., not only is it custom to tip for good service, many service industry livelihoods depend upon it.

http://www.citypass.com/blog/tips-tipping-tipping-tendencies

It is embarrassing to me that we pay some professions so little in the US that these people need the generosity of others to make it. Why waiters and bellhops and not mailman or trash collectors, it makes no sense.

Quote: kewlj

How can the many members who talk about tipping for service, justify tipping only after a win?

That's the problem. The customers are already paying the dealers salary. No one should have to justify not tipping. No one should be deemed a scumbag, low life or bad person because they don't tip.

I heard people say, if you can't afford to tip you shouldn't do x. That's complete BS. Take away everyone who under tips and see who still has a job in the first place.

They may be providing a service but customers are proving them a job.

Flea or George.

By our actions so are we judged.

Actually I had first hand experience of this.

When I was getting out of the taxi in Kyoto I notice the fare was equivalent to USD 14.75. I gave the driver $15 and indicated that he keep the change.
As I was getting out he call me back and gave me my change. It struck me as being very odd. But as the article indicated that is their way of conducting things.

I took a taxi in Vegas from the strip to downtown and the fare was $15 years ago. I gave the driver a $20 bill. As he had ask me where I want to get off I told anywhere here will do as I want just to walk around. He stop there in the intersection a very busy place. As I was hurrying to get out I did not notice that he had handed me 5 $1 bill. I wave goodbye to him but he appeared not at all happy. Later on I realized he was mad at me because he did not get his tip.

If the dealers are personable, I'll always tip. A white on the edge of the box for blackjack and I'm a big fan of "dealers in the field" for a nickel every now and then on the craps table

Quote: kewlj

Ok, first of all, I was not familiar with the IANAL abbreviation. I had to look it up to figure it out. At first glance, I thought maybe you left a little "heart' symbol out between the I and A and were sharing some personal deep secrets. Lol.

I chuckled at, 'Deep secrets,' but that probably wasn't intentional on your part...lol...

Quote:

Maybe I have crossed over, taking the discussion into some 'moral grounds' territory. But there is a line between APing and cheating and sometimes it's a fine line and it is fairly easy to get hung up and cross that line. That's were personal morals comes in. So morals is always there in this discussion and this environment.

I just think the compass is a little different. A couple mistakes, I'm not going to assume it's the tokes. I always tip and I don't AP Table Games to begin with. I would say that I'd probably quit playing if I got to the point where I KNEW the mistakes were intentional.

Quote:

No certain number of times an incident must occur for you to know it's wrong or at least for me to know it's wrong. If I tip by placing a bet for dealer and we both push a hand we should have lost, is that proof of anything? Of course not. Two hands later I tip and dealer flashes hole card. Coincidence? Maybe. Maybe not. But that would be enough for me, I'm out of there. I just want no part of anything along those lines.

For me it would take just a little more than that, but I think we agree in principle. Four or five times, yeah, I'm probably gone, but I'm not going to implicate the guy/lady, either. Like I said, I'm not on their payroll.

Quote:

Early in my career, playing what was then Trump Marina in Atlantic City (now Golden Nugget, I believe), I was playing $25 table with 3 other players. New dealer came on, and you could tell right away he was very green. Slow, methodical motions. I think he broke the first hand, but second hand he draws a 19 or 20 from his stiff and proceed to pay everyone who still had chips up even though most of us had stiff hand (looking for him to break). A couple hands later, same thing. It became instantly clear to me that if he had a pat hand like 20, payoffs were normal, but if he had to draw cards but still made his hand of anywhere from 17-21, he would pay off everyone that remained in the game, similar to if he had broke...

Admittedly, though, you also have an interest in longevity. Like I said, I don't AP tables, generally, so if they send out a poorly trained person, I don't know. I guess the only options are play on, say something, or leave and saying something probably isn't an option with others at the table.

If the Dealer and I were playing heads up, I might be inclined to say something, but only to the dealer. I've never been confronted with anything to that extent. I'm just talking maybe a Place Bet that's been left up when it should have come down on a seven out, same thing maybe a half hour later. I think it was more likely to be inattentiveness that collusion on $1 tokes and $6 Place Bets.

Quote: AxelWolf

That's the problem. The customers are already paying the dealers salary. No one should have to justify not tipping. No one should be deemed a scumbag, low life or bad person because they don't tip.

I heard people say, if you can't afford to tip you shouldn't do x. That's complete BS. Take away everyone who under tips and see who still has a job in the first place.

They may be providing a service but customers are proving them a job.

So you pay for your food at a restaurant which pays for the waiter or waitress pay, same as casino. So you don't tip at restaurants?


ZCore13

Quote: Zcore13

So you pay for your food at a restaurant which pays for the waiter or waitress pay, same as casino. So you don't tip at restaurants?

He tries not to, at least! :)

Quote: EvenBob

I never tip till I color up. In the old days,
before dealers split tips, I would tip
during play. But now, what's the difference.
It all just goes into one big pot, what does
it matter when you tip.

For the most part the 'tip pool' is rarely spoken of!
Many players are not even aware that all the tips go into a pool for all-dealer-staff (not just the current table or not just the craps tables staff).
Employees are even taxed on the pool distribution.

Depending upon the casino size and number of overall dealer staff, unless your tipping hundreds, individually they get a very small amount. However, that small amount adds up. Most dealers make more (because of tips) than their supervisors.