$3 craps

I finally thought about my $3 place bets I have so often played at The Freemont.

The house edge on those are way bigger than usual! (Except 6,8 which are the same as if placing $6). 3 pays 4 on 5/9 and 3 pays 5 on 4/10.

So given the tremendous advantage to the casino, why don't more casinos offer such a thing?

Even with such a high house edge, I made a good amount because I am such a phenomenal craps player- perhaps the worlds best behind mustang Sally.

I am what some call a control player. Most control players control the dice. But I control my bets - oh so well. ;)

Here in Biloxi, when there is a $3 game, the 6 & 8 pay even money! Just another tax on the poor!

Quote: slackyhacky

I finally thought about my $3 place bets I have so often played at The Freemont.

The house edge on those are way bigger than usual! (Except 6,8 which are the same as if placing $6). 3 pays 4 on 5/9 and 3 pays 5 on 4/10.

So given the tremendous advantage to the casino, why don't more casinos offer such a thing?

Even with such a high house edge, I made a good amount because I am such a phenomenal craps player- perhaps the worlds best behind mustang Sally.

I am what some call a control player. Most control players control the dice. But I control my bets - oh so well. ;)

The 6/8 would pay the same for $5 or $3--even money--anywhere I've played. You are still giving up something in not betting it for $6, which would payout $7...or does the casino pay the fifty cents on a $3 bet?

As discussed yesterday in another thread, the Fremont and a couple other downtown places have half dollars used exclusively for $3 place bets on 6/8.

Quote: RonC

The 6/8 would pay the same for $5 or $3--even money--anywhere I've played. You are still giving up something in not betting it for $6, which would payout $7...or does the casino pay the fifty cents on a $3 bet?

Two pink chips, .25cents each.

Using 25 cent chips allows you to lay 4 and 10 for $10 and buy a $5 4/10.

Quote: slackyhacky

I finally thought about my $3 place bets I have so often played at The Freemont.

The house edge on those are way bigger than usual! (Except 6,8 which are the same as if placing $6). 3 pays 4 on 5/9 and 3 pays 5 on 4/10.

So given the tremendous advantage to the casino, why don't more casinos offer such a thing?

Even with such a high house edge, I made a good amount because I am such a phenomenal craps player- perhaps the worlds best behind mustang Sally.

I am what some call a control player. Most control players control the dice. But I control my bets - oh so well. ;)

A player playing $5 place 5 has the same expected loss as a $3 place 5 player. They are equivalent to a $1 put bet with 4x odds and 2x odds respectively. Same thing for the 10.

Quote: miplet

A player playing $5 place 5 has the same expected loss as a $3 place 5 player. They are equivalent to a $1 put bet with 4x odds and 2x odds respectively. Same thing for the 10.

A $3 dollar placed on 5 pays $4. 4/3=1.33333

A $5 dollar placed on 5 pays $7. 7/5= 1.4

Explain to me how that difference doesn't make expected loss different.

Quote: slackyhacky

A $3 dollar placed on 5 pays $4. 4/3=1.33333

A $5 dollar placed on 5 pays $7. 7/5= 1.4

Explain to me how that difference doesn't make expected loss different.

$4*4 - $3*6 = -$2
$7*4 - $5*6 = -$2
Same for The 10:
$5*3 - $3*6 = -$3
$9*3 - $5*6 = -$3

Quote: miplet

$4*4 - $3*6 = -$2
$7*4 - $5*6 = -$2
Same for The 10:
$5*3 - $3*6 = -$3
$9*3 - $5*6 = -$3

I don't understand your math - I mean what each number is suppose to represent.

However, use English - or explain to me like I am 10 years old...

If I risk three dollars, and win four dollars - I make 133% of my original bet.

If I risk five dollars, and win seven dollars - I make 140% of my original bet.

How is that not worse to bet $3 to win $4?

Quote: slackyhacky

I don't understand your math - I mean what each number is suppose to represent.

However, use English - or explain to me like I am 10 years old...

If I risk three dollars, and win four dollars - I make 133% of my original bet.

If I risk five dollars, and win seven dollars - I make 140% of my original bet.

How is that not worse to bet $3 to win $4?

He's looking at expected loss in dollars, not as a percentage of the initial wager. Too many people focus on expected loss relative to total wager but your loss in currency is what really matters both to your wallet and to the casino. To that point: a casino's ADT measurement for you is in dollars, not percentages.

If you risk $3 dollars to win $4 2/5 of the time and lose the $3 3/5 of the time, your expected loss is 20c. Out of the $3 initial wager, that 20c represents a 6.67% edge.
If you risk $5 dollars to win $7 2/5 of the time and lose the $5 3/5 of the time, your expected loss is *still* 20c. Out of the $5 initial wager, that 20c represents a 4% edge, which is the normally-reported edge for the place 5 bet.

But importantly, if you make place 5 bets for an hour, your expected loss is the same regardless of whether you bet $3 or $5. The variance is higher if you bet $5 but the mean is the same for both.

This is no different than saying that the hourly expected loss for making $10 pass bets with 3/4/5x odds is the same as making $10 pass bets with no odds, which it is.

Edit: I should add that it's commonly accepted that the pass bet is "better" than the hardway bets. However, consider that the expected loss per hour for a $10 passline bettor is about $5, while the expected loss per hour for a $1 hardway bettor (any single hardway) is about $3.33. So between the two, who's making the "better" bet?

Quote: slackyhacky

I don't understand your math - I mean what each number is suppose to represent.

However, use English - or explain to me like I am 10 years old...

If I risk three dollars, and win four dollars - I make 133% of my original bet.

If I risk five dollars, and win seven dollars - I make 140% of my original bet.

How is that not worse to bet $3 to win $4?

$5 5: Win $7 40% of the time and lose $5 60% of the time. On a average you will lose 20 cents per resolved bet.
$3 5: Win $4 40% of the time and lose $3 60% of the time. On a average you will lose 20 cents per resolved bet.

Thanks!

MathExtremist and miblet - I now get what you are saying...

And for the casino, the amount of money per hour they are making is the same.

But...I'm still struggling...(I probably drove teachers crazy)

I know the 3$ casino's don't do this - but lets say they keep with the 1 unit integer.

So let's say I press this unit 5 times - now showing $15. Payout would be (keeping with the same math) $20 (15/3 = 5 - and payout is $4 per unit - so 4x5 = $20).

But on a "regular" table, payout on $15 dollars (3 units) is $21 dollars.

Using your math above, the table that stays with the $3 units expects to win $1/ hour for place bets on the 5 with five $3 dollar units (0.20 x 5), and on regular table, this is only 0.60.

I still don't see how they are the same.

BUT - I do get that casino's don't do this - that is, after $3, they seem to move to $5 dollar intervals - although I never tried placing $6 or $9 on the 5.

$3 place 5 should pay $4.20 but there's breakage. Except every five units there isn't so the pay is correct, 5×3 pays 5×4.20 = 21.

Quote: MathExtremist

$3 place 5 should pay $4.20 but there's breakage. Except every five units there isn't so the pay is correct, 5×3 pays 5×4.20 = 21.

Thanks. This point makes my point I think.

A $3 PB on 4,5,9,&10 was a convenience bet available at the 25 cent games back in the day. $2.50 of the bet is normal 5X place bet payoff, while an additional 50 cents is "flat". Hence the increased HA.