At what time do they bring out a new stick of dice?

Does anybody know if there is a certain time they bring out a new stick of dice?

Thanks!

Wouldn't this be property dependent?

I imagine all mgm properties would have the same protocol. Likewise for Caesers? Could totally be wrong too.

Quote: nickolay411

Does anybody know if there is a certain time they bring out a new stick of dice?

Thanks!

When do they bring out new cards?

I expect there are regular times of day when they change dice, and then they also change dice if they think there might be a problem.

Dice are changed at shift change.

Cards are changed at shift change unless it's unnecessary.

I figured this was about what time they bring out the wings at CZR Diamond lounges in Vegas from the shortened title. Usually 50+ people lined up for them.

Stick change when it is broken over a patron's skull.

Quote: RS

Dice are changed at shift change.

Cards are changed at shift change unless it's unnecessary.

Thanks RS!

Quote: mcallister3200

Stick change when it is broken over a patron's skull.

:) Enjoyed that one.

early in the morning there may be a shift change but that doesn't mean all dice tables will be opened. crews show up and unlocking the lid, counting the bank, recording the serial numbers of the five dice in the stick and adding the dice to the bowl, doing paperwork and setting up odds/signs etc. takes time. and some tables are not even scheduled to open until 10:00am. Usually there will be two tables still going, though perhaps not strong. sometimes the same players are at a table at 8am as were there the previous 8pm.

You can watch a dice table being opened, they don't mind.... just don't try to hurry them or anything. they got work to do and those little slips of paper that get three signatures are important. the bank, the bowl and the dice are usually under the same key-operated clear plastic lid.

Quote: nickolay411

Does anybody know if there is a certain time they bring out a new stick of dice?

Thanks!

Just to clarify or supplement some of the answers above, Caesars and Bellagio on the Strip in Las Vegas only change dice once every 24 hours, inserting the dice when the table opens or during the early morning shift change.

Most other casinos change dice every shift change unless "Risk Management" deems it necessary to do so at other times, like after a hot roll or 1 casino will do so after I buy-in (then my chess move is to walk to the cage).

Thanks Evenbob and Bohemian.

Bohemian,

I was looking for a set of dice that would be in play the longest amount of time, it seems that would be at the Bellagio/Caesers.

I am looking forward to a field test with a brand new set of dice vs a set who have been in play 20+ hours and see how they performed against each other.

Which set of dice do you think would have less friction/tubmling? I can see the very sharp edges of a new set catch against the felt more and the older dice would have less friction with 'played out' edges.

But Maybe a 20+ hour difference in dice age wont change anything...

Would you happen to know which casinos use 3/4" midwest gambing supply dice? Bellagio/Caesers by chance?

Are there any strip casinos that use the Chinese made 18MM dice?

nickolay411, I like where you are going and would be very interested in your results. I will share with you with what we have found:

- the 1st hour of use seems to be more cold as the dice do stick more often in the older style wool blend felts from the sharp edges and less influence is possible

- the 8th hour of dice use tends to allow for more influence, less occurrence of dice catching unnaturally in the surface

- the Nevada Gaming Commission told us directly that today's dice are strong enough to last more than 24 hours and that they have recommended that casinos keep dice in play longer. However, our findings suggest otherwise depending upon where you buy them from -- USA, China or Mexico.

- We have found that some dice used by some casinos, for instance, the bluish silver skinny font serial numbered Dice at Sam's Town Las Vegas is made of a much softer cheaper acetate that chips very easily compared to the same casino's dice with gold serial font numbers

Quote: nickolay411

Thanks Evenbob and Bohemian.

Bohemian,

I was looking for a set of dice that would be in play the longest amount of time, it seems that would be at the Bellagio/Caesers.

I am looking forward to a field test with a brand new set of dice vs a set who have been in play 20+ hours and see how they performed against each other.

Which set of dice do you think would have less friction/tubmling? I can see the very sharp edges of a new set catch against the felt more and the older dice would have less friction with 'played out' edges.

But Maybe a 20+ hour difference in dice age wont change anything...

Bellagio would be a good testing ground as front row tables marked 03 and 05 are usually open 24 hours compared to back row table 10 that usually does not open until 8:10 PM. Dice changes usually with 4 AM shift change on all tables.

Few issues to consider:

If fairly balanced dice are being compared, you could see a small difference. If unbalanced dice are in play on one of the tables, your results will be skewed and overriden by the gravitational influence.

Quote:

Would you happen to know which casinos use 3/4" midwest gambing supply dice? Bellagio/Caesers by chance?

Are there any strip casinos that use the Chinese made 18MM dice?

Harley is the best source of that information and he has been banned from this site and rumor is that anyone referencing Harley's PSA website may also be banned for spamming.

It changes from casino to casino...it's up to the club, not Gaming Control, at least not here in Nevada. When they are changed, it's usually about 45 minutes before the dealers change shifts. Bosses generally clock in around an hour or more earlier and changing the dice is usually one of the first tasks. Some joints change 'em per shift, some once a day, some swap them out whenever there is an unusually long hand...I worked for an old gangster in Reno in the late '70s who changed them maybe three times a YEAR! Truth!

Quote: Bohemian

Harley is the best source of that information and he has been banned from this site and rumor is that anyone referencing Harley's PSA website may also be banned for spamming.

Fiesta Rancho had a pair of dice in action for more than five days one time (years ago). It wasn't long after that where I used a spreadsheet to calculate player edges given uneven distributions of outcomes and got 86'd almost immediately after making a max bet in the field too many times.

If you ever see a stick of dice in action for too long, check my thread with the spreadsheet and show them why it's not smart to do that.

I'm most interested in this topic and was hoping to see more info.
Generally speaking, I don't believe most players are attentive to dice changes and the outcome influences.
Some staff (depending upon your regularity) are not even cooperative on discussing this topic.

I'm not in Vegas, rather the Midwest and deal with primarily Indian Casinos.
I throw the dice at a low angle with forward motion and have found that I do best with dice that have been in play for more than few hours, and especially on tables where the felt is a bit worn.
One casino I frequent has one table in play 24-7 (although the specific table may alternate in a 24-hour period) and a 2nd table in lay half the time.
Dice are changed twice a day.
1) When a new table opens
a) when a 2nd table is opened the dice are also changed on the previously opened table.
b) the dice are also changed on the open table half-way through the graveyard shift (approx 8AM).

Some of the smaller Indian Casinos only have the craps table open for one-shift or less and introduce new dice when the table opens.

In Detroit the three Casinos get quite a bit of traffic (heavy after a sports event). I've seen as many as six tables open at MGM.
I've not been to Detroit in some while. I've been told that dice are changed each shift, although I've not seen it first-hand (was not attentive to such things when I was there).

edit:
FWIW, Feel it necessary to apologize to forum members as my response has noting to do with 'Vegas'.

I've seen the dice changed at Caesars Palace at all different hours -- not necessarily just the morning. I don't know what the schedule is.

Obviously tables not in action will not have their dice changed -- they'll remain in the bowl.

Personally I like new dice with sharp edges because they won't roll or slide as much as worn dice.

The only time I've ever complained about the dice in use was at MGM Grand about ten years ago when the dice were so sticky from dirt that they actually stuck to my finger tips. I set the dice with my finger tips and as I pulled up my hand to throw them I noticed the "feel" that they were sticking. I stopped my throw and held up my hand, palm down, with the dice below my hand sticking to my finger tips, showing it to the boxman. They spent a couple of minutes with tissues wiping down the dice -- and nothing was said about bringing new dice to the table.

Alan,
Many thanks for your reply to a noob.

In recent months, I've watched attentively at shooters techniques (both delivery and DI) (both random shooters and craps-regulars). Even seen a recent instance where I believe a sticky substance was introduced intentionally.

Due to the many variables related to the condition of the dice (new or old) and the condition of the table (felt new or worn, length of table, and degree of padding) attempting to focus on the newness of the dice alone is an impossible task. Considering all the factors present and affecting new or old dice was my interest in the thread and the absence of more response/explanation.

Delivery technique (forward or reverse motion, and the angle of delivery (low-medium-high) trajectory are all additional factors to consider.

It's been my perception that shooters which utilize reverse motion in their delivery are more effective with new dice.

I've seen and spoken with shooters that are without clue as to their delivery technique or even the correspondence of numbers on individual die (or both dice), and yet they gamble there money?
I've also seen and spoken with shooters whom are unwilling to discuss such topics (course given the atmosphere and personalities surrounding the table there are folks that are simply incapable of chatter while a game is ongoing).