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AxelWolf
AxelWolf
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July 21st, 2015 at 9:40:52 AM permalink
Quote: MathExtremist

I've wondered this for years. Cheating is a felony in Nevada, but so is just attempting to cheat. If you think dice setting alters the odds and you try to do it, why isn't that a crime? And under the same theory, why isn't it a crime to teach dice setting seminars?

Setting the dice isn't enough to make a cheating case. Perhaps the dice are lucky if you have snake eyes facing up or down. It's equivalent to tapping the hold buttons on and off a few times on VP before you make a final hold and draw .


Before when people mentioned DI may be cheating, I thought that was absurd.

It's obvious DI isn't deemed cheating because it doesn't work.

Same reason you can use a pen and paper at a Baccarat table.


I realize that a cheating attempt doesn't have to be successful. But, I though they had specific laws regarding craps play. As long as the dice toss fell within that criteria you were fine? Perhaps NV doesn't define a legal shoot. Something like scooting the dice doesn't fit the criteria. But, if you think about it, DI would be technically cheating if there isn't a specific criteria, especially if DI could alter the outcome. Its just a different much less effective(zero effect) form of scooting.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
nickolay411
nickolay411
Joined: Sep 7, 2011
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July 21st, 2015 at 10:15:13 AM permalink
If someone ever takes a few million plus from the casino by DI. I mean if the crew, pitbosses, managers, higher ups see it was done with what looked like a controlled shot.

Cheating or not I wouldn't be surprised if a lawsuit gets filed.
odiousgambit
odiousgambit
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July 21st, 2015 at 10:21:24 AM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

tapping the hold buttons on and off a few times on VP before you make a final hold and draw



slowly but surely we are learning your secrets!
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!” She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
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July 21st, 2015 at 12:54:38 PM permalink
Quote: odiousgambit

slowly but surely we are learning your secrets!

This isn't common knowledge? I assumed it was because some of the local senior citizens periodically practice this method. They know it's benefits, but they don't do it properly.

I was going to save this secret for my book, but since the secret it now out I can touch on the subject. I guess it needs a name now "Rhythm tapping" sounds good (RI). Eventually it will be called Button control when the Breaking Vegas episode comes out. My new name, the Tappinator. We will probably have to settle on button influence.

Secret tip: If you are playing VP and get dealt A♠ Q♠ K♠ 10♠ 4♦ After holding the A♠ Q♠ K♠ 10♠, but before you draw, quickly tap hold On and off, slight pause, quickly wack hold On and off the 4d, then quickly draw. Tap tap pause tap tap wack. This can be used for any combination of cards, however its best to stick with one card draws. This way you always know exactly what card to rhythm tap.

It takes years of dedicated practice and testing to learn the correct rhythm for each dealt combination without an instructor. Getting dealt something like AAA is a complex situation. AAA can require up to 16 taps, occasionally just 2. I can teach someone who's dedicated in just a few weekend classes.


Unlike craps, you can gain a VP advantage off the top before using the Rhythm tapping method. The worst RT can make a minimum of $12 an hr anytime 24/7 365.
Some RT's can get thousand in value per hr.

RT classes are generally cost significantly less than DI classes.

It's also far easier to learn. I can teach practically anybody. An RT in training actually has an advantage the very first hand he plays.

The casino perks are far better.

Unlike DI, VP has been a proven Advantage play method for years with many successful players, Some boast of millions.

-----------------------------------------------
Warning:
Actual Results may vary and you are hereby warned that this valuable trick in this post is performed by professionals. Do not attempt to duplicate or recreate the same or similar tricks at actual casinos without proper instruction and supervision, as personal injuries and monetary damages may result. The poster of this post is not responsible for any such injury, criminal or financial damages.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
DoubleOrNothing
DoubleOrNothing
Joined: Jan 2, 2012
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July 21st, 2015 at 1:57:44 PM permalink
Quote: MathExtremist

That was excellent gibberish. Prove to me that you're not a Markov chain sentence generator.


You first. I'm not the one who's avoiding real issues with ad hominem remarks; and going on and on for, in my opinion, nothing. And, I'm not the one who's making big claims, if any.

I prefer to stick to the obvious. There are so many things to think and do without the preexisting and obligatory restrictions and "baggage" of casinos and their gamblers once we get beyond the concept of failing lazily with built-in excuses as "casino heat" and confused online gamblers.

If I'm not mistaken, you claimed, eg, that the Wizard made a profit of 20 million dollars with this site. Prove it! On the other hand, I can prove that he passed the cup to keep it up and running a while back. Curious as well. But, if it's none of my business, then please refrain from repeating such claims.

You spoke also of his "exit" from this profit. So tell me, if it's such a great passion to create a gambling forum from the same old gambling math to sell casino stuff for casinos, then what's the Wizard's next really big adventure or passion in life? A lot of people go off and make a lot of money, only to position themselves poorly. To discover nobody really cares, or even knows they exist. Curious as well.

Trying to understand what drives people to participate in what I perceive as making nothing of something. Anyway, appears that the Wizard is still obligated here.
I can't believe what I believe.
ShineyShine
ShineyShine
Joined: Feb 6, 2014
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July 21st, 2015 at 2:31:21 PM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

Quote: ShineyShine

Quote: MathExtremist

Clocking is different than sector shooting. Clocking is done by players, sometimes in cahoots with dealers, by using orbital mechanics to identify the trajectory of the ball as it decays. This has already been proven to work in a casino using computers; that's one of the reasons you can't use computers in casinos. See Thomas Bass, "Eudaemonic Pie"

Sector shooting is what you're talking about. You only need to be able to avoid 3 pockets to turn the game positive for the players, assuming they know what those three pockets are. Are you saying that after 10,000 spins as a trained dealer, if you were to set the wheel in motion with a certain force and release the ball from the same spot with a certain force, you have exactly zero control over where the ball ends up? Here's a guy who gets the ball within 10 numbers of 0 three times in a row, the last exactly on zero. It's only three spins but if it's not a complete anomaly, you could make a killing with a confederate if you can target half the wheel and avoid the other half.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7I6eFIDUYG4



Not sure i'm buying that without further evidence. Has it been verified? Has there been controlled tests over hundreds or thousands of spins to confirm that this dealer (or others) can hit a section like that? It would be fairly easy to record a few spins where you hit the same section and then number, especially with editing.

If it is for real, consider my mind officially blown. And i'll also consider myself a complete failure of a Roulette dealer that i'm not a millionaire by now if this is possible!

I'm not sure what you're asking about being verified.



To verify that it is possible for a dealer to control or deliberately influence where the ball will land, beyond YouTube videos.

Sorry if i'm repeating myself, but i'm still not buying it. The Jafco videos are almost too good. Spinning the neighbours of 1-5? Really? I think it's either editing, and/or a doctored wheel. The fact that he's also selling a system on his website makes it even less credible.

To state my position clearly; I accept that it's possible to predict where the ball will land, that has been proven. I do not accept or believe that a dealer has any control or deliberate influence on where the ball will land. No proof of that has been provided, apart from some dubious YouTube videos.

If we're going round in circles here, then apologies, and i'll gracefully (and skeptically) bow out of this debate.

I also realise this thread is about Craps DI, and this is de railing it a bit. But after 76 pages of this thread, does it really matter if it's de railed a bit?
MathExtremist
MathExtremist
Joined: Aug 31, 2010
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July 21st, 2015 at 6:50:30 PM permalink
Quote: DoubleOrNothing

Quote: MathExtremist

That was excellent gibberish. Prove to me that you're not a Markov chain sentence generator.


I prefer to stick to the obvious. There are so many things to think and do without the preexisting and obligatory restrictions and "baggage" of casinos and their gamblers once we get beyond the concept of failing lazily with built-in excuses as "casino heat" and confused online gamblers.

You just failed the Turing test. What chatbot software are you using?
"In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice." -- Girolamo Cardano, 1563
beachbumbabs
Administrator
beachbumbabs
Joined: May 21, 2013
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July 22nd, 2015 at 1:03:38 AM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

This isn't common knowledge? I assumed it was because some of the local senior citizens periodically practice this method. They know it's benefits, but they don't do it properly.

I was going to save this secret for my book, but since the secret it now out I can touch on the subject. I guess it needs a name now "Rhythm tapping" sounds good (RI). Eventually it will be called Button control when the Breaking Vegas episode comes out. My new name, the Tappinator. We will probably have to settle on button influence.

Secret tip: If you are playing VP and get dealt A¢¼ Q¢¼ K¢¼ 10¢¼ 4♦ After holding the A¢¼ Q¢¼ K¢¼ 10¢¼, but before you draw, quickly tap hold On and off, slight pause, quickly wack hold On and off the 4d, then quickly draw. Tap tap pause tap tap wack. This can be used for any combination of cards, however its best to stick with one card draws. This way you always know exactly what card to rhythm tap.

It takes years of dedicated practice and testing to learn the correct rhythm for each dealt combination without an instructor. Getting dealt something like AAA is a complex situation. AAA can require up to 16 taps, occasionally just 2. I can teach someone who's dedicated in just a few weekend classes.


Unlike craps, you can gain a VP advantage off the top before using the Rhythm tapping method. The worst RT can make a minimum of $12 an hr anytime 24/7 365.
Some RT's can get thousand in value per hr.

RT classes are generally cost significantly less than DI classes.

It's also far easier to learn. I can teach practically anybody. An RT in training actually has an advantage the very first hand he plays.

The casino perks are far better.

Unlike DI, VP has been a proven Advantage play method for years with many successful players, Some boast of millions.

-----------------------------------------------
Warning:
Actual Results may vary and you are hereby warned that this valuable trick in this post is performed by professionals. Do not attempt to duplicate or recreate the same or similar tricks at actual casinos without proper instruction and supervision, as personal injuries and monetary damages may result. The poster of this post is not responsible for any such injury, criminal or financial damages.



Ya know, the most fun part of this post is how well the disclaimer is spelled. I had to look twice to see if it was really Axel posting.....lol. You must've been on your computer, not your smart phone. :)
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
DoubleOrNothing
DoubleOrNothing
Joined: Jan 2, 2012
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July 22nd, 2015 at 2:55:39 PM permalink
Quote: MathExtremist

You just failed the Turing test.


My goodness, what's with all the name-dropping around here? No homegrown talent for household names? Like, "The home of EvenBob".

If I recall, Turing was a gay guy who specialized in secrets, but later went wacky and killed himself after some of his own came to light. Interesting analogy there, ME. (No, I'm not talking to myself yet.)

Quote: MathExtremist

What chatbot software are you using?


Just feeding some of the stuff (it appeared to me) you wrote back into the computer.
I can't believe what I believe.
beachbumbabs
Administrator
beachbumbabs
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July 22nd, 2015 at 4:38:01 PM permalink
Too lazy and hazy on the details to find the exact reference, but some of the earliest chat bots back about 20 years (probably more) would have you start a conversation with a written sentence, and the software would grab a phrase of what you said, or search for related word strings and synonyms, and feed it back to you as a comment or a question, and pretty soon you'd think you were conversing with a human. It was sort of a psychological experiment along the lines of Freudian/Jungian analysis, how the psychotherapist would get you to answer your own questions and issues with them guiding you but not actually inserting anything new into the conversation, just feeding back your own thoughts for further input and clarity. I think the Turing test ME mentions is related to that.

I do remember trying one of those back in the mid-90's and finding it intriguing and a bit scary, how good it was at creating a "dialogue". And they've had 20 more years to refine and improve it.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.

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