SanchoPanza
Joined: May 10, 2010
• Posts: 3502
July 15th, 2015 at 9:51:29 AM permalink
Quote: MathExtremist

Spend two hours throwing the dice using your practiced technique, then another two hours throwing the dice while brushing your teeth. I bet the results from both sessions will be statistically indistinguishable.

It depends on the toothpaste. Colgate with Gardol should beat out Pepsodent.
thecesspit
Joined: Apr 19, 2010
• Posts: 5936
July 15th, 2015 at 9:56:03 AM permalink
Quote: MathExtremist

I certainly don't have a clue how your mind works. Not in a million years would I have ever thought to include oral hygiene in a discussion about throwing dice.

But I can work with it. How about a dice-throwing challenge? Spend two hours throwing the dice using your practiced technique, then another two hours throwing the dice while brushing your teeth. I bet the results from both sessions will be statistically indistinguishable.

What dicesitter knows about random and probability could be written on the back of a very small post-it note. He'll protest he has real experience, but it's quite clear he couldn't tell the difference over 30 rolls between 'random' and 'controlled' dice. There's a reason for that... unless the rolls were hugely patterned, no-one could for the sort of shifts in probability dice-setters claim.
"Then you can admire the real gambler, who has neither eaten, slept, thought nor lived, he has so smarted under the scourge of his martingale, so suffered on the rack of his desire for a coup at trente-et-quarante" - Honore de Balzac, 1829
AxelWolf
Joined: Oct 10, 2012
• Posts: 21387
July 15th, 2015 at 10:12:04 AM permalink
Quote: dicesitter

Math

brush your teeth for just a few hours and tell me you are brushing them exactly the same way at the end as
you did at the beginning.

You don't have a clue how this stuff works.

dicesetter

dicesetter you are retired right? You have been practicing your shot for 7 years now. Why not take the time and do the video of 1080 shots? That's nothing compared to the 7 years. Don't you want to know more? Perhaps you don't want to know the truth.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
dicesitter
Joined: Jan 17, 2013
• Posts: 1157
July 15th, 2015 at 11:13:21 AM permalink
MATH

I said what I said because you keep going back to the same place...... you assume dice influence is a constant
that you can turn on and off like a switch.... sorry wrong.

Just standing and throwing for endless hours can prove nothing, just ask ahigh....

You can not go the table and throw for several hours at one time and think your
going to do anything but get tired... a regular guy cant go out and hit a golf ball on the
range for 3-4 hours, and not have his swing change.

That is my point, you have no respect for how hard it is to maintain a shot.

I understand Supperick does not like those misleading craps players with
gimmicks...... but ask him what he thinks can be proven by standing at your
table for 3-4 hours at a time.....

A reasonable test would be 40 rolls a day for 27 days.......that is a long commitment
by any one, and that is to you, some one who thinks I am really to dumb to be doing this in
the first place.

dicesetter
MathExtremist
Joined: Aug 31, 2010
• Posts: 6526
July 15th, 2015 at 12:13:08 PM permalink
Quote: dicesitter

I said what I said because you keep going back to the same place...... you assume dice influence is a constant
that you can turn on and off like a switch....

Apparently you assume that practicing one's dice throwing is as demonstrably effective as brushing one's teeth. If you had spent seven years not brushing your teeth, you'd have many cavities. If you had spent seven years not practicing your dice throwing, you'd be exactly as good at dice throwing as you are today.

And what you think I assume is wrong. The truth is that if you have any influence at all it should be quantifiable, like a baseball pitcher's WHIP or K/9. Pitchers have bad days, they have good days, they throw better against righties, worse on day games, etc., but overall a very good pitcher these days has less than a 1.2 WHIP (walks + hits per inning pitched). It's an average, and it's quantifiable.

But you don't know what your average is because in truth you have no idea how to measure and evaluate your efforts. You can't quantify whether your shot is "working" or not. To continue the baseball analogy, you can't tell whether your pitches are balls or strikes. You just rely on your intuition and folksy logic, the same folksy logic that led to the comparison with brushing your teeth.

Quote: dicesitter

ask him what he thinks can be proven by standing at your table for 3-4 hours at a time.....

A reasonable test would be 40 rolls a day...

Look, I'm sorry you have no stamina, but it's ridiculous to suggest that an average person could only throw something 40 times per day with any level of control. Have you ever watched a darts tournament? A football game? A baseball game? You've got professional athletes making far more than 40 throws per game with objects like baseballs and footballs that, you know, weigh a lot more than a pair of dice. By the time the finalists reach the last match of a big darts tournament, they've made well over a hundred throws. And they're still able to throw 26g darts into a bullseye or triple-20 spot with significant precision and accuracy. Do you know how much a pair of dice weigh? About 18g.

So yes, I think that if you have the ability to influence the dice, you would aim to be able to throw the dice more than 40 times per day. We're not talking about strenuous exercise here. Throwing an 18g pair of dice once every 30 seconds for an average hand of 8.5 throws and a break of 20-30 minutes in between hands should not tire anyone out. And respectfully, if your "precision throw" degrades after just 40 tosses, you really need to pick another hobby.

But it's a convenient excuse for why you're not able to win consistently. "I just threw the dice all the way from the other end of the table and boy are my arms tired."
"In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice." -- Girolamo Cardano, 1563
dicesitter
Joined: Jan 17, 2013
• Posts: 1157
July 15th, 2015 at 12:40:11 PM permalink
MATH

Yup your right Math, you threw the dice from one end to the other and you still have a 6 SRR.

Maybe you need to try to do something different.

By the way, I noticed you did not offer to throw the dice on your table 40 rolls per evening for
27 days and compare them to mine...

dicesetter
MathExtremist
Joined: Aug 31, 2010
• Posts: 6526
July 15th, 2015 at 12:47:42 PM permalink
Quote: dicesitter

By the way, I noticed you did not offer to throw the dice on your table 40 rolls per evening for
27 days and compare them to mine...

You first. Throw the dice for 40 rolls per evening for 27 days and make a video recording. Post it on YouTube. Then I'll gather data for 1080 rolls and we'll do a statistical comparison.
"In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice." -- Girolamo Cardano, 1563
dicesitter
Joined: Jan 17, 2013
• Posts: 1157
July 15th, 2015 at 12:57:59 PM permalink
math

I see!!!!

I will think it over....laughing.....

You know 27 days from now you will have nothing more than you have now...... but I did make a reasonable
offer, but you are the one holding up the test.

dicesetter
MathExtremist
Joined: Aug 31, 2010
• Posts: 6526
July 15th, 2015 at 1:37:50 PM permalink
Quote: dicesitter

You know 27 days from now you will have nothing more than you have now...... but I did make a reasonable
offer, but you are the one holding up the test.

I guarantee that within 30 days from today I will have data for 1080 rolls. It won't take me more than a few hours total because I don't need to throw at a rate of 40 throws per day. If your "reasonable offer" was to videorecord 40 rolls for 27 days, what's your excuse for backing out now?
"In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice." -- Girolamo Cardano, 1563
SanchoPanza
Joined: May 10, 2010
• Posts: 3502
July 15th, 2015 at 2:04:40 PM permalink
Quote: dicesitter

Yup your right Math, you threw the dice from one end to the other and you still have a 6 SRR.

OK, what do you say your SRR is?
Quote: dicesitter

Maybe you need to try to do something different.

"Something different" is something that you cannot or will not describe even in the most general terms.