CRAPS ~ DICE UNBALANCE MYSTERY ~ DICE PHYSICAL DATA
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For a Limited Time Simple Repeater bet terms:
Only numbers rolled 2 thru 6 are counted for the repeater bet ... before any Seven. Numbers 8 thru 12 add no value to the repeater bet.
Requirements for Payouts:
The number 2 (snake eyes) needs to be rolled twice for a $40 payout for each $1 bet.
The number 3 needs to be rolled three times for a $50 payout for each $1 bet.
The number 4 needs to be rolled four times for a $65 payout for each $1 bet.
The number 5 needs to be rolled five times for a $80 payout for each$1 bet.
The number 6 needs to be rolled six timess for a $90 payout for each $1 bet.
Normally this bet would be fun in most casinos, however Gold Coast has commissioned a new set of dice just for this new bet. Gold Coast has been using 2 sets of 3-digit numbered serial dice for over 5 years, until this bet was installed. (I do not have enough data to determine if Suncoast is doing anything similar)
Now Gold Coast has a brand new set of dice that are 4-digit serial numbers with a skinny small pink font. Of course these new set of dice are unbalanced to favor the higher numbers on the table so the House Advantage on this repeater bet has been increased more than the normal math would suggest.
The 6, 8, 9, 10 and 11 will consistently roll more often than their smaller sister numbers. It's not even close. Local players know to increase their Bonus Bet on the 6 as that bet will payoff almost 4:1 more than the other Repeater bets (2,3,4,5). Most 6s thrown are of the 5/1 variety. Most Hard 6 bets do not even break-even paying off at only a 5% clip, less than any other Hardway bet on this Gold Coast table.
Also, you can tell that Gold Coast is related to Sam's Town as they do NOT let you repeat this Repeat bet on the same shooter after a Come-Out 7 unless the 7 was on the very 1st roll. In other words if the shooter tosses an 11 then a 7, all proposition Repeater bets are losers and cannot be bet again until the next shooter. What other Casino will NOT allow any bet offered in the casino (especially a proposition bet) to be bet again, other than Sam's Town and Gold Coast once it loses ?!!
What Gold Coast has done by inserting these newly commissioned unbalanced dice that favors higher numbers blows a cannon-ball hole into the Steve "Heavy" Haltom and irish theory that casinos do not purposely insert certain types of biased dice onto the tables to increase the House Advantage.
Additional proof to the statement that Gold Coast is using specially commissioned Biased dice on this Repeater Bonus Bet table that favors the larger numbers - This Data is only from the Gold Coast Repeater Bonus Bet table with the new 4-digit pink serial numbers:
Point - Passed Percentage Rate*
5 - Only 20% of the 5s established as Points successfully Pass, 80% fail or DP
6 - 71% of the 6s established as Points successfully Pass
8 - 50% of the 8s established as Points successfully Pass
9 - 75% of the 9s established as Points successfully Pass
10 - 57% of the 10s established as Points successfully Pass
* of course this is data shared with me from various playing sessions, not 100% of the Casino working hours.
It's harder to make the Point of 5 when so many of the 6 and 5 die faces keep occurring on so many rolls.
(CONSUMER WARNING - Since this Gold Coast data was 1st published almost 60 days ago, Gold Coast has since changed their dice and the Repeater Bet)
Quote: ontariodealeryou are right, I don't believe in any of that b.s. And there is a very strong chance that I have seen more dice hands than anyone else alive.
ontariodealer,
You appear to be a valuable resource as to what transpires @ the CRAPS TABLE.
Could you answer the questions below for the thread?
1) Are you still an active CRAPS Dealer?
2) Do you currently play CRAPS at CASINO's other than that which you work for?
3) At other times than current, did you Play CRAPS at all?
4) Over the years, you must have seen hundreds of HOT ROLLS @ the CRAPS TABLE.
Recalling the Euphoria that spilled across the table on those HOT ROLL Hands, just
what would you attribute it to?
I would appreciate your answers to the above & remember, that I am trying to pick the
FLY SHIT out of the PEPPER relative to actions at the CRAPS TABLES & you are without
a doubt the most experienced observer of the game of CRAPS that has Posted on this thread.
eagleeye2
Quote: ontariodealeryou are right, I don't believe in any of that b.s. And there is a very strong chance that I have seen more dice hands than anyone else alive.
Don't get me wrong - there are some sharp dealers out there! But more often than not, there is a reason dealers are paid a minimum wage. You can tell that too many of them are just going through the motions. There is a huge difference between 20 years of experience and 20 years of 1 year experience repeated over and over.
Why else have they not been promoted to a job different than a 1 year dealer.
Quote: ontariodealerthis is all craziness....all the casino has to do is open the doors and let the house edged work its magic over time.
We are talking about 2 different worlds - socialistic Canada is no where as greedy as corporate US casinos that need to increase HA for more profits.
Are they "unpunched"? If so, how were they acquired?Quote: WizardI have 26 dice from the Venetian and they all look perfectly the same size to my naked eye. I put 25 of them in a 5x5 square and every row and column looked the same length.
Quote: BohemianThe Suncoast Casino & Gold Coast Casino in Las Vegas (Boyd group) now have a “REPEATER BET” on one of their crap tables. This “REPEATER BET” requires a shooter to roll repeating numbers from 2 to 6 before any Seven . (the numbers 2 thru 6 do not have to be rolled sequentially to be counted) However, the Seven (even on the comeout) makes all repeater bets lose. All comeout numbers 2 thru 6 will count toward the repeater number. Prior to a new shooter's comeout roll, bets must be placed with the boxman ... on the numbers 2 thru 6 or any individual number … cost is $1 to $10 on each number selected.
For a Limited Time Simple Repeater bet terms:
Only numbers rolled 2 thru 6 are counted for the repeater bet ... before any Seven. Numbers 8 thru 12 add no value to the repeater bet.
Requirements for Payouts:
The number 2 (snake eyes) needs to be rolled twice for a $40 payout for each $1 bet.
The number 3 needs to be rolled three times for a $50 payout for each $1 bet.
The number 4 needs to be rolled four times for a $65 payout for each $1 bet.
The number 5 needs to be rolled five times for a $80 payout for each$1 bet.
The number 6 needs to be rolled six timess for a $90 payout for each $1 bet.
................................................................................................................
5 - Only 20% of the 5s established as Points successfully Pass, 80% fail or DP
6 - 71% of the 6s established as Points successfully Pass
8 - 50% of the 8s established as Points successfully Pass
9 - 75% of the 9s established as Points successfully Pass
10 - 57% of the 10s established as Points successfully Pass
* of course this is data shared with me from various playing sessions, not 100% of the Casino working hours.
It's harder to make the Point of 5 when so many of the 6 and 5 die faces keep occurring on so many rolls.
(CONSUMER WARNING - Since this Gold Coast data was 1st published almost 60 days ago, Gold Coast has since changed their dice and the Repeater Bet)
Bohemian,
Last year when I was in Las Vegas, i saw that BET at the Gold Coast, but avoided it, as it appeared on the surface to have too high of a House Advantage.
Dam..., I wished that I had known what you just posted above, as I would have made a KILLING Placing the 9!!!
Just that type of advantage is what this thread is sgtriving to uncover as we unravel the Unbalanced Dice Mystery.
eagleeye2
Here is one way to produce DICE "biased towards 7"
YES, YES, YES ~ M~O~R~E 7's will; enhance CASINO PROFITS ~ Which unfortunately for us players, is their objective!
Here's how Unbalanced Dice can accomplish that!
1) Somehow weight the # 5 & 6 Faces, which produce an abnormal # of 1's & 2's.
2) Now, rolling 2's & 3's loose on the Come Out for Pass Line Betters ~ But Don't Betters WIN, but, there are fewer don't betters ~ CASINO Wins Again
3) Increased frequency of Now Non Random 2's & 3's count throws, do not Pay Off For Any Place or Don't Betters ~ CASINO Wins Again
4) As rolls progress, those 1's & 2.s add 5's & 6's to produce 7's, at a frequency greater than that which would occur with totally balanced dice
~ CASINO Wins Again
5) Bottom Line ~ Casino's will employ Unbalanced Dice (When Judged Necessary) to ENHANCE THEIR PROFIT LEVELS.
6) I believe that most of the time that passes, CASINO's have Balanced Dice in Play; But, All here have seen them REPLACE HOT Dice; with NEW DICE, after which, the DICE FAVOR the CASINO. This happens all to frequently to be a matter of CHANCE!
CONSIDER THIS ~ Never too old to learn, several weeks ago, I was playing & chatting with the player to my left, table was neutral, then a guy on the end got the dice, he was Setting Them, but had a rather wild throw. Suddenly he Had made two Points & I Stepped up my betting on him, as did the Player to my left.
Luck, etc. & he held the dice for some time, making all Do Betters MONEY!
Suddenly, the guy to my left taps me & says DAM, they are going to CHANGE OUT the dice! I said to him what makes you think that & he replied:
1) When you are on a HOT ROLL, don't watch the dice, watch the PIT BOSS!
2) I have been watching him closely & he has prepared a new sleeve of DICE!
3) Another several Rolls & Bingo 7~OUT.
4) I NOW watched the PIT BOSS Slip those NEW DICE IN & GET THEM IN PLAY, without all but that guy nest to me & ME catching the SWITCH!
5) Yes, after 35 Years of Shooting DICE, I Learned what to Watch & When to Watch, thanks to that unknown Shooter!
6) The next player 7'd out shortly, with all but the guy next to me & me having loaded up on a "HOT Table" Cooled by the CASINO!
Stick to this FORUM, We All Have Lots to Learn...
eagleeye2
Quote: ajemeisterI'm having a hard time understanding "biased towards 7". does that mean that more 6-1's will come out? 5-2s? 4-3s? which combination. You can't just say "more 7s" in which case, grabbing from a random 5-6 dice.. you may grab the 2 dice that favor the 4s and not one that favors 4 and one that favors 3. What's next? Tin foil hats affect the current flowing through the air and lead to me throwing more 7s? Hogwash.
The above (FROM AJMEISTER) goes with the (PREVIOUS POST) missed it!
eagleeye2
Most Craps Players continue playing the game of CRAPS, with Wins & Losses, while feeding $$ to the Casino's, because they believe in KARMA, which is that Ancient Indian Concept, wherein intent, thought and actions of an individual influence future outcomes for that individual!
All Craps Players thus truly believe, that that Monster Roll will hit, that exact table that they have settled on.
Prevailing philosophy being that, it has happened to them before & will happen again today!
Thus you hear Craps Tables Erupt With Euphoria & Cheering, on those HOT Rolls, multiplying that KARMA many fold, with CASINO Personnel fearing that very HOT Roll's effect, on their bottom line for the DAY.
Now, what I am asking from you here is to post just what triggered you, as an individual Craps Player to jump on a particular Caps Table, assuming you have a choice of Craps Tables. Should you be at a Casino with but one Craps Table Open, please think about that time you had a choice in tables. Also, please mention if you Won or Lost with that rational which you used to select a table
Thanks for your replies & with some luck, we can establish a consensus of opinion & establish rational for Craps Players actions. Hopefully this will lead to Valid Reasons to Pick a Particular Craps Table
Quote: BohemianWe are talking about 2 different worlds - socialistic Canada is no where as greedy as corporate US casinos that need to increase HA for more profits.
are you for real, you seem extremely uninformed. We haven't had a raise here for 6 years because our casino is squeezing out every red cent. We are no different than your local harrah's joints.
Quote: BohemianDon't get me wrong - there are some sharp dealers out there! But more often than not, there is a reason dealers are paid a minimum wage. You can tell that too many of them are just going through the motions. There is a huge difference between 20 years of experience and 20 years of 1 year experience repeated over and over.
Why else have they not been promoted to a job different than a 1 year dealer.
again, are you for real, very uninformed...there are dealers who make way more than min wages all over north America. Of course there are bad dealers and lazy dealers and all kinds. Did you know that the first promotion from dealer usually means less money, more responsibility and a far greater chance of being fired.
Quote: eagleeye2ontariodealer,
You appear to be a valuable resource as to what transpires @ the CRAPS TABLE.
Could you answer the questions below for the thread?
1) Are you still an active CRAPS Dealer?
2) Do you currently play CRAPS at CASINO's other than that which you work for?
3) At other times than current, did you Play CRAPS at all?
4) Over the years, you must have seen hundreds of HOT ROLLS @ the CRAPS TABLE.
Recalling the Euphoria that spilled across the table on those HOT ROLL Hands, just
what would you attribute it to?
I would appreciate your answers to the above & remember, that I am trying to pick the
FLY SHIT out of the PEPPER relative to actions at the CRAPS TABLES & you are without
a doubt the most experienced observer of the game of CRAPS that has Posted on this thread.
eagleeye2
1. yes
2. yes
3. yes
4. dice get hot, dice get cold....its variance and its why its a great game.
Quote: ontariodealer1. yes
2. yes
3. yes
4. dice get hot, dice get cold....its variance and its why its a great game.
ontariodealer,
Many thanks for your honest answers, & I agree 100%!
I thought that you likely played the game, from your interest in reading & posting to the thread, & yes, you are a valuable resource for this thread with your honest & straightforward posts, keep them up.
Your concept of variance in Dice Rolls & HOT & COLD tables, obviously reflects your time & observations when Dealing Craps over the years.
I frequently feel sorry for dealers that are not getting TIPS & I can see a positive change in their attitude when tips appear on the table. Personally, I tend to over tip when I am winning, but bet little for the Dealers when loosing. In my last sweet Craps session, dealers pocketed 4 Tall or Small Hits for $140, on two $1 across bets from me & two $1 across bets from another shooter, while barely missing the all ($ 175) on two of those occasions. This all over a bit over two hours of playing time.
eagleeye2
Quote: BohemianWizard, have you tried putting your dice in a dice balancing caliper that can be purchased online or at the Gambler's store on Main Street like this one in the video:
No. I don't have a caliper and don't buy into the whole conspiracy theory enough to waste the money to buy one.
Quote: eagleeye2
CRAPS DICE ANALYSIS DATA DIMENSION ACROSS FLATS INCHES WEIGHT* * * DICE WIPED CLEAN (DWC) ~ Tweezer Handled CLEANED Lot # 24902 1~6 2~5 3~4 ~ 1 2 3 4 AVERAGE** WT. Delta Die #1 0.7612 0.7606 0.7614 8.588 8.478 8.487 8.485 8.492 8.4855 0.1025 Pack of 5 #2 0.7619 0.7614 0.7612 8.622 8.595 8.601 8.581 8.586 8.59075 0.03125 CLEAR #3 0.7624 0.7617 0.7614 8.621 8.59 8.582 8.583 8.582 8.58425 0.03675 RED #4 0.7618 0.7614 0.7614 8.639 8.464 8.463 8.461 8.461 8.46225 0.17675 # 'D #5 0.7624 0.7616 0.7613 8.612 8.455 8.455 8.457 8.454 8.45525 0.15675 250 DELTA 0.0012 0.0011 0.0002 ~ DELTA 0.1355 Average 0.76194 0.76134 0.76134 Average 8.5156 #5 Die with 5 Drops Super Glue (#6 Face) Classified as "Balanced" #5 Die with 10 Drops Super Glue (#6 Face) "UNBALANCED" ~ Weights Below #5 Weight 8.628 8.631 8.628 8.629 8.6290 # 5 Die DELTA Weight that verifies UNBALANCE = 0.1738 Grams (Super Glue) * Note: Dice were handled, viewed, placed side by side, weighed, etc. without gloves, DWC data collected with Dice handled with a Tweezers, no fingers, etc. DIMENSION ACROSS FLATS INCHES ** Dice wiped clean, placed on scale 4 times with Tweezers Lot # 37469 1~6 2~5 3~4 1 2 3 4 AVERAGE** F PiP IN Die #1 0.7660 0.7664 0.7660 ~ 8.706 8.708 8.708 8.705 8.7068 1 0.030 Pack of 5 #2 0.7658 0.7655 0.7661 ~ 8.754 8.751 8.744 8.739 8.7470 2 0.025 CLEAR #3 0.7662 0.7660 0.7654 ~ 8.742 8.754 8.749 8.744 8.7473 3 0.030 BLUE #4 0.7661 0.7652 0.7662 ~ 8.758 8.746 8.742 8.744 8.7475 4 0.030 # 'D #5 0.7624 0.7616 0.7613 ~ 8.736 8.746 8.743 8.739 8.7410 5 0.035 374 DELTA 0.0038 0.0048 0.0049 ~ DELTA 0.0403 6 0.030 Average 0.7653 0.76494 0.7650 Average 8.7379 0.030 DIMENSION ACROSS FLATS INCHES ** Dice wiped clean, placed on scale 4 times with Tweezers Lot # N / A 1~6 2~5 3~4 1 2 3 4 AVERAGE** ~ Die #1 0.7525 0.7519 0.7527 ~ 8.363 8.335 8.327 8.324 8.33725 Pack of 5 #2 0.755 0.7518 0.7524 ~ 8.344 8.331 8.314 8.314 8.32575 CLEAR #3 0.7529 0.7528 0.7525 ~ 8.378 8.363 8.349 8.351 8.36025 YELLOW #4 0.7521 0.7514 0.7502 ~ 8.267 8.263 8.262 8.277 8.26725 # 'D #5 0.7522 0.7524 0.7521 ~ 8.283 8.278 8.278 8.269 8.2770 317 DELTA 0.0029 0.0014 0.0025 ~ DELTA 0.04875 Average 0.75294 0.75206 0.7520 Average 8.3135
The ablve represents DICE PHYSICAL DATA DICE for CRAPS ~ DICE UNBALANCE MYSTERY
Comments follow the original Posting.
Post any Questions You May have...
eagleeye2
Quote: FaceI get what you're saying.... might
As for you, eagleeye2, my mind is closed because I see nothing worthy of opening it. I open it occasionally, when someone offers something I haven't yet tackled, like when Ahigh came here with his project. I've drawn my conclusions, which I feel are well founded. Your claims bring nothing new to the table.
* * I usually don't post period.
* * I have no interest.
* * I don't gamble and
* * no longer work in the industry.
* * My posting today was mostly as a forum service, as we do get new people from time to time who might think there was something here. My post was to save them the time and effort from pursuing it.
We appreciate your honesty, & would appreciate your stepping out, one more time to answer the following:
1) Please post your "conclusions" again, I have not been here when you first posted them.
2) Have you ever Gambled @ A Craps Table & if so, what made you leave such a fabulous challenge?
3) What Positions did you fulfill, when you were employed in the Gambling Industry?
4) My intent here is to provide an Open Forum on the Subject of Unbalanced Dice & methods to Detect Same, as well as their use in Casino's, assuming they actually exist, that is.
5) Hopefully, taken together, our joint Experience, with Casinos, Craps & Dice will Enhance the Knowledge of
all that stick to this thread, including yourself!
eagleeye2
All Craps Players love to see & hear their Table Erupt With Euphoria & Cheering, on those HOT Rolls, multiplying Table KARMA many fold, with CASINO Personnel fearing that very HOT Roll's effect, on their bottom line, for the DAY.
At Craps, there is nothing more satisfying than filling your rack with Red's, then Greens, On to Black's, etc, all courtesy of the Casino.
We all know that every game in the Casino has a House Edge, with Craps having one of the lowest Casino House Edges of all games in the Casino. What we Craps Players need, is to develop our Skill & or Sixth Sense sufficiently to take advantage of that low House Edge & walk away from the Craps table with more $$ than we bought in for & on a regular basis.
Looking back, we can see how the Casino's have modified the games they offer, all in their continuous effort to increase their House Edge & subsequent $$ Hold for the Casino.
Some EXAMPLES Follow:
A) Blackjack:
1) Demoting Single Deck Blackjack Games to 6 & 8 Deck Shoes
2) Blackjack Pays 6 to 5, Not the Original 3 to 2
3) Automatic, then on to CONTINUOUS Card Shufflers
4) Higher Minimum Bets per hand, extracting the players bankroll faster
B) Roulette:
1) Going from Single ZERO to Double ZERO positions on the wheel
2) Higher Minimum Bets per hand, extracting the players bankroll faster
C) Slots:
1) Electronic Button to Spin the Reels, very rapid play per hour
2) Computer Control of odds on machines, allowing setting House Hold, at will, & on individual machines of the same type
3) Providing Special Second, Third, etc. Bonus Levels incentives, enticing the players to play on
4) Progressively moving the Play $ up, to where one can Now Play up to $10.00 per button push, on a " PENNY " Slot Machine
D) Craps:
1) Much Higher Minimum Bets per hand, extracting the players bankroll faster
2) Microfiber table surfaces, in an effort to control dice
3) Rippled surfaces in dice landing zones
4) Providing High Payback PROPOSITION BETS, which provide very high House Edges
5) Lately, introduction of Unbalanced Dice, which are Biased to favor the 7, when needed, to assure House Hold
Thus one can see, that if they stand idly by, while Casino's continue to increase their $ Holds, our losses will only continue.
This thread aims, through participant experiences & revelations, to develop an optimum strategy for dealing with Casino manipulation of DICE in the game of CRAPS. Your participation herein is needed.
eagleeye2
First of all, maybe your experience with craps is not full enough to appreciate that NOT ALL "craps players love to see & hear their table erupt" and so on.Quote: eagleeye2All Craps Players love to see & hear their Table Erupt With Euphoria & Cheering, on those HOT Rolls, multiplying Table KARMA many fold, with CASINO Personnel fearing that very HOT Roll's effect, on their bottom line, for the DAY. . . .
D) Craps:
1) Much Higher Minimum Bets per hand, extracting the players bankroll faster
2) Microfiber table surfaces, in an effort to control dice
3) Rippled surfaces in dice landing zones
4) Providing High Payback PROPOSITION BETS, which provide very high House Edges
5) Lately, introduction of Unbalanced Dice, which are Biased to favor the 7, when needed, to assure House Hold
Secondly, $5 minimums continue to be common in many Las Vegas casinos. Next, there is no conclusive evidence other than opinionated anecdotes about the effects of microfiber. And where are those "rippled surfaces in dice landing zones'? I, for one, one would like to find them and take advantage of their supposed propensity toward 7's. Lastly, prop bets are for the innumerate. Period.
Quote: SanchoPanzaAl
First of all, maybe your experience with craps is not full enough to appreciate that NOT ALL "craps players love to see & hear their table erupt" and so on.
Secondly, $5 minimums continue to be common in many Las Vegas casinos.
Next, there is no conclusive evidence other than opinionated anecdotes about the effects of microfiber.
And where are those "rippled surfaces in dice landing zones'? I, for one, one would like to find them and take advantage of their supposed propensity toward 7's. Lastly,
prop bets are for the innumerate. Period.
~ SanchoPaza ~
Thanks much for expressing your opinion, which is counter to mine; but your opinion is needed & welcome, as we must strive to resolve differences of opinions
here.
First, You are Correct, No Don't Player Loves to see HOT Rolls, etc. as he is in essence Betting With the House. Yes, there are two ways to play CRAPS, Do Side & Don' Side, which I overlooked in that Post!
Secondly, Yes, I see Some $5 Tables in the morning, But Fewer each time I visit Las Vegas. Very few Casino's & None of the Big Ones have $5 Craps in the Evenings & on Fridays, Saturday's * Holidays, where $25 Tables abound.
Microfiber is being installed on CRAPS Tables, as Casino's feel that it produces a more Random Roll. Cost to Casino's is much Higher than Felt, yet they march on with Microfiber, ASK Yourself WHY?
As to Verifying rippled surfaces in dice landing zones, one only need to run your fingers over the Cloth in the Landing Zone to verify if it EXISTS there, Not all Casino's have it. I recommend doing so Do Nonschelntly & on a table not in use, to avoid being obvious. You will readily establish if a Particular Casino has moved to Rippled Surfaces in the DICE Landing Zone.
Taking Rippled Surfaces to the EXTREME is the Four Queens Casino. Four Queens has actually sent their Table Surfaces out & Had Circular Grooves Machined in the Table Garnet across the full width, of the DICE LANDING ZONE.
Please report what you find, thanks..
I have Not Played anything @ Four Queens, for Several Years since I observed this radical antic, I recommend that you Avoid Four Queens Craps altogether.
eagleeye2
That is so incorrect that it unashamedly demonstrates alarming ignorance about the entire game of craps.Quote: eagleeye2First, You are Correct, No Don't Player Loves to see HOT Rolls, etc. as he is in essence Betting With the House.
Five-dollar tables abound in scores of places around the valley day and night and almost entire weekends. There's a whole lot more to Vegas than downtown. But if you're limited to posh, that's your preference.Quote: eagleeye2I see Some $5 Tables in the morning, But Fewer each time I visit Las Vegas. Very few Casino's & None of the Big Ones have $5 Craps in the Evenings & on Fridays, Saturday's * Holidays, where $25 Tables abound.
Which casinos and where are the cost figures?Quote: eagleeye2Microfiber is being installed on CRAPS Tables, as Casino's feel that it produces a more Random Roll. Cost to Casino's is much Higher than Felt, yet they march on with Microfiber, ASK Yourself WHY?
Quote: SanchoPanzaThat is so incorrect that it unashamedly demonstrates alarming ignorance about the entire game of craps.Quote: eagleeye2First, You are Correct, No Don't Player Loves to see HOT Rolls, etc. as he is in essence Betting With the House.
Five-dollar tables abound in scores of places around the valley day and night and almost entire weekends. There's a whole lot more to Vegas than downtown. But if you're limited to posh, that's your preference.Quote: eagleeye2I see Some $5 Tables in the morning, But Fewer each time I visit Las Vegas. Very few Casino's & None of the Big Ones have $5 Craps in the Evenings & on Fridays, Saturday's * Holidays, where $25 Tables abound.
Which casinos and where are the cost figures?Quote: eagleeye2Microfiber is being installed on CRAPS Tables, as Casino's feel that it produces a more Random Roll. Cost to Casino's is much Higher than Felt, yet they march on with Microfiber, ASK Yourself WHY?
SanchoPanza,
1) Guess that you are an exception, as to one that enjoys a HOT ROLL, in the middle of your DONT Betting.
Please Enlighten the thread relative to my "expressed ignorance of the game of CRAPS"!
2) Provide those on the thread a partial Listing of all these Casinos ~ "Five-dollar tables abound in scores of places around the valley day and night and almost entire weekends"
3) You are smoking that wacky tobacco if you think Microfiber is Cheaper than Felt...
4) Lastly, check out the tables @ Four Queens, to see the Extent that some Casinos are going to!...
eagleeye2
Most craps players are generally unaware of don't bettors and/or just what they are doing with their action, and that includes the don't bettor's being reserved when he wins. That means that NOT "the whole table erupts" when a point is made. The more significant point is that don't bettors face virtually exactly the same house edge as pass bettors, NOT that they are "betting with the house."Quote: eagleeye21) Guess that you are an exception, as to one that enjoys a HOT ROLL, in the middle of your DONT Betting. Please Enlighten the thread relative to my "expressed ignorance of the game of CRAPS"!
Santa Fe Station, Rampart, Texas Station, Aliante, Suncoast and Red Rock in addition to a whole slew down Henderson way.Quote: eagleeye22) Provide those on the thread a partial Listing of all these Casinos ~ "Five-dollar tables abound in scores of places around the valley day and night and almost entire weekends."
The absence is specific figures is noted again.Quote: eagleeye23) You are smoking that wacky tobacco if you think Microfiber is Cheaper than Felt...
It might be worthwhile to trek only if I can be really sure of an abundance of 7's. So far, nobody has indicated that to any extent.Quote: eagleeye24) Lastly, check out the tables @ Four Queens, to see the Extent that some Casinos are going to!...
Quote: SanchoPanzaMost craps players are generally unaware of don't bettors and/or just what they are doing with their action, and that includes the don't bettor's being reserved when he wins. That means that NOT "the whole table erupts" when a point is made. The more significant point is that don't bettors face virtually exactly the same house edge as pass bettors, NOT that they are "betting with the house."Quote: eagleeye21) Guess that you are an exception, as to one that enjoys a HOT ROLL, in the middle of your DONT Betting. Please Enlighten the thread relative to my "expressed ignorance of the game of CRAPS"!
Santa Fe Station, Rampart, Texas Station, Aliante, Suncoast and Red Rock in addition to a whole slew down Henderson way.Quote: eagleeye22) Provide those on the thread a partial Listing of all these Casinos ~ "Five-dollar tables abound in scores of places around the valley day and night and almost entire weekends."
The absence is specific figures is noted again.Quote: eagleeye23) You are smoking that wacky tobacco if you think Microfiber is Cheaper than Felt...
It might be worthwhile to trek only if I can be really sure of an abundance of 7's. So far, nobody has indicated that to any extent.Quote: eagleeye24) Lastly, check out the tables @ Four Queens, to see the Extent that some Casinos are going to!...
SanchoPanza,
1) I can see that "Don't Betting terminology of "Betting that #'s will not appear, after a bet", Vs "Essentially Betting With the House" as I Posted previously, is preferable, & I will use it, should it come up again.
2) Thanks for the listing!
Station Casino's all have 14 foot tables, so I don't generally play there.
I do play at Suncoast & Redrock (when I go over that way to partake of the LOX @ Suncoast ~ Only Low Cost Casino Breakfast Buffet that I know of in Las Vegas, that still has LOX on their Breakfast Menu). Drawback here is that they both are tight on tables & with but one table open in the morning, I generally find it filled with 6+ Shooters & as I like to Shoot, the 1/2 hour = wait between shooting IS A BIG DRAG FOR ME.
3) Statement of FACT!
4) Four Queens is the Most Blatant Example of Ripples in the Dice Landing Zone, all should check it out! If they have not changed the Felt Recently, you can see the Lines on the Felt, no need to feel those monster grooves cut into the table.
As to an abundance of 7's, IMHO, that occurs with DICE are loaded in the 5 & 6 Faces, see my previous discussion of this.
eagleeye2
Stubbornness and purposeful misuse of standard terms serves only to obfuscate and detract from one's argument. Opinion based on willful ignorance is noted.Quote: eagleeye21) I can see that "Don't Betting terminology of "Betting that #'s will not appear, after a bet", Vs "Essentially Betting With the House" as I Posted previously, is preferable, & I will use it, should it come up again.
Acknowledgment of knowing misstatement about table minimums is noted.Quote: eagleeye22) Thanks for the listing!
Station Casino's all have 14 foot tables, so I don't generally play there. I do play at Suncoast & Redrock (when I go over that way to partake of the LOX @ Suncoast ~ Only Low Cost Casino Breakfast Buffet that I know of in Las Vegas, that still has LOX on their Breakfast Menu). Drawback here is that they both are tight on tables & with but one table open in the morning, I generally find it filled with 6+ Shooters & as I like to Shoot, the 1/2 hour = wait between shooting IS A BIG DRAG FOR ME.
Absence of any figures or reference continues to be noted.Quote: eagleeye23) Statement of FACT!
Lack of any mention of specific proportion of 7's continues to be noted.Quote: eagleeye24) Four Queens is the Most Blatant Example of Ripples in the Dice Landing Zone, all should check it out! If they have not changed the Felt Recently, you can see the Lines on the Felt, no need to feel those monster grooves cut into the table.
As to an abundance of 7's, IMHO, that occurs with DICE are loaded in the 5 & 6 Faces, see my previous discussion of this.
Quote: SanchoPanzaStubbornness and purposeful misuse of standard terms serves only to obfuscate and detract from one's argument. Opinion based on willful ignorance is noted.
Acknowledgment of knowing misstatement about table minimums is noted.
Absence of any figures or reference continues to be noted.
Lack of any mention of specific proportion of 7's continues to be no
ted.
SanchoPanza
That last post of yours Verifies that you are "in need of OUTSIDE HELP"!
Good Luck in finding it!
Unable to deal with factual discussion? Attack the messenger. Just like politics.Quote: eagleeye2SanchoPanza
That last post of yours Verifies that you are "in need of OUTSIDE HELP"!
Good Luck in finding it!
Yes, we have to Applaud "A-High" for his efforts; unfortunately his $2,000 Caliper is much more complicated & introduces more FRICTION into the Balance Equation, thus the $46 one, from Gamblers Supply, (assuming one uses the latter optimally).
Bottom Line Problem Us Craps Players thus face is:
1) Verified Unbalanced Dice are, sometimes, being used in Casino's
2) We are unsure exactly how this Unbalance affects the results of two Die Being Rolled On A Craps Table
3) Apparently no one here Knows Just How these Unbalanced Dice are Made to Exhibit Unbalance
4) Balance Caliper Verifies that the #6 & #5 Faces are Heavier than are the # 1 & # 2 faces
Somehow, we have to get to the bottom of the Unbalance Condition Observed, & how it affects the Numerical Outcome of a set of Dice thrown on a CRAPS Table.
eagleeye2
Yes, we have to Applaud "A-High" for his efforts; unfortunately his $2,000 Caliper is much more complicated & introduces more FRICTION into the Balance Equation, thus the $46 one, from Gamblers Supply, (assuming one uses the latter optimally).
Bottom Line Problem Us Craps Players thus face is:
1) Verified Unbalanced Dice are, sometimes, being used in Casino's
2) We are unsure exactly how this Unbalance affects the results of two Die Being Rolled On A Craps Table
3) Apparently no one here Knows Just How these Unbalanced Dice are Made to Exhibit Unbalance
4) Balance Caliper Verifies that the #6 & #5 Faces are Heavier than are the # 1 & # 2 faces
Somehow, we have to get to the bottom of the Unbalance Condition Observed, & how it affects the Numerical Outcome of a set of Dice thrown on a CRAPS Table.
eagleeye2
Quote: eagleeye2SanchoPanza
That last post of yours Verifies that you are "in need of OUTSIDE HELP"!
Good Luck in finding it!
Personal insult. 3 days.
Quote: beachbumbabsPersonal insult. 3 days.
Huh. I thought for sure you were going to suspend him for spamming, with the same posts
here: https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/craps/21764-craps-dice-unbalance-mystery-dice-physical-data/8/#post452199
and here: https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/craps/21819-consumer-warning-unbalanced-casino-dice-for-sale/4/#post452175
just like Harley.
Quote: Dalex64Huh. I thought for sure you were going to suspend him for spamming, with the same posts
here: https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/craps/21764-craps-dice-unbalance-mystery-dice-physical-data/8/#post452199
and here: https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/craps/21819-consumer-warning-unbalanced-casino-dice-for-sale/4/#post452175
just like Harley.
No, Harley told me after playing craps 1 day that the Wizard banned him because of a personal challenge he made to the Wizard twice that the Wizard could not and would not accept so he nuked him for a technical duplicate post. These threads about dice are educational and are PSAs. Real spamming here is allowed - see https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/info/announcements/19960-rich-newman-patent-attorney-info/
It's really called FLOODINGQuote: BohemianNo, Harley told me after playing craps 1 day that the Wizard banned him because of a personal challenge he made to the Wizard twice that the Wizard could not and would not accept so he nuked him for a technical duplicate post. These threads about dice are educational and are PSAs. Real spamming here is allowed - see https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/info/announcements/19960-rich-newman-patent-attorney-info/
FLOODINGFLOODINGFLOODINGFLOODINGFLOODINGFLOODINGFLOODINGFLOODINGFLOODINGFLOODINGFLOODINGFLOODINGFLOODINGFLOODING
Just because you do not understand or agree with the nuances of biased dice does not give you the right to call it spam.
I believe you. I'm willing to believe casinos do have biased dice. I'm not saying I believe it's intentional.Quote: BohemianActually it is called the perfect storm. Two different unrelated yet similar storms approaching each other at the same time. I called Harley and he has never met eagleeye2 and neither have I. Eagleeye2's test and analysis is independent and about as separate from my thread as you will ever see. I am sure the board's administrators can tell the difference as easy as a Hard 6 from a Midnight bet - they are both craps bets and non-contract bets made in the non-recommended high-vig center of a craps table, but very different. And if you had 2 threads talking about each of those 2 independent center craps bets and how bad the math was on each - that would not be flooding.
Just because you do not understand or agree with the nuances of biased dice does not give you the right to call it spam.
Now tell me why this isn't being explored and exploited? What casino has the most biased dice?
I have an Idea why don't we see who all is willing to invest in 5 sets of dice.
Everyone puts up money in a pot and they have to claim beforehand if the think the dice will be significantly biased for the house, like the ones in the video.
We have them sent to someone like AHigh or the Wizard. They Video the unboxing and testing.
Whomever guesses rite gets refunds for the dice.
People talk about it, but they can't prove it. In blackjack, it can be proven. In craps, if it happened, it could be proven.
Prove it or it doesn't exist.
That whole list thing of places with biased dice was weird...how did anyone know the dice were biased?
You can gain an advantage in craps(or any game, I have even had one on sigma derby) , however its rare and it has nothing to do with the dice, table, hot/cold, good shooting or whatever betting systems they can concoct.Quote: RonCWhen I hear someone talking about "Advantage Play" in craps it automatically introduces doubt about what they are addressing. I've played a lot of craps in a lot of places, I've seen a lot of people with carefully placed shots that look almost alike each time, and I've seen all kinds of betting patterns/systems/etc., but I have yet to see someone who looked to be playing with an advantage. I've yet to hear or read of anyone actually playing with an advantage.
People talk about it, but they can't prove it. In blackjack, it can be proven. In craps, if it happened, it could be proven.
Prove it or it doesn't exist.
That whole list thing of places with biased dice was weird...how did anyone know the dice were biased?
I'm sure at some point someone has profited from biased dice. Doubtful anyone currently talking about biased dice.
Quote: AxelWolfYou can gain an advantage in craps(or any game, I have even had one on sigma derby) , however its rare and it has nothing to do with the dice, table, hot/cold, good shooting or whatever betting systems they can concoct.
I'm sure at some point someone has profited from biased dice. Doubtful anyone currently talking about biased dice.
You are right in that you can potentially gain an advantage in craps (or many other games) with promotions, free play, taking over bets, etc.--but there is no advantage in just normal play of the game; meaning that it is unlike Blackjack, where you can gain an advantage by counting.
In 7 days off posting to a CRAPS thread I titled ""CRAPS ~ DICE UNBALANCE MYSTERY ~ DICE PHYSICAL DATA"" here's some of what I encountered.
1) The usual fluff from those that have their Opinions Made up in Advance, as I had
anticipated.
2) A generally Aloof, rather than Congenial Attitude, expressed by Thread Moderators, which
serves only to Cut Off Needed Feedback, from potential posters on any thread.
3) Moderator attitude reminiscent of that of a 5th grade child, hardly what is needed on an
Informational Thread.
4) Closed Minded Post, by Moderator, essentially attacking Posts that I made & that were
intended to generate discussion about the threads subject matter.
5) A vague early threat to Bam me for posting several Paragraphs that had been posted
previously, (considered SPAMMING by them) but, which had relevance to, responding to
a posters specific question.
6) A request to "Clean Up a Table in my Post," when the software for this thread does NOT
Accept Excel Formatted Tables, Nor will it accept spaces inserted in an effort to Tabulate
Data, within the allocated posting area. Personally, I gave up trying after a half hour's efforts
& the only reason a Nice Table Appeared in my Post, was thanks to a member who provided
me with a Formatting Program that he wrote, to generate a table therein. Obviously, this
"Moderator" had NEVER attempted to enter a Table into any of his many postings on the
thread; what a HOOT that is!
7) With Moderator attitude expressed towards what they reefer to as "spamming", wherein
Nothing From a Previous Post Can Be Repeated in a Subsequent Posting, there is ZERO
CHANCE of Resolving the ""CRAPS ~ DICE UNBALANCE MYSTERY ~ DICE
PHYSICAL DATA"", NOR most other postings, through contributions posted to this
ludicrously run thread.
8) Getting "A Three Day Suspension for Personal Insult", to an incoherent posting, tops the
thread attitude off.
9) Lastly having to frequently resort to Task Manager when switching between many Forum
Pages, to clear the Online Casino etc., Pop Up Tag Along Links; that apparently help to
make a profit for the site operator, come on guys, you need those pennies per Tag Along?
Bottom Line, I personally can no longer Afford to Waste My Time, Posting to your Forum!
My last post to Wizard of Vegas Forum ~ says Bye Bye ~ eagleeye2
Quote: eagleeye2When I scanned through Dice Forums a week ago, I picked Wizard of Vegas; to present what I feel is a Matter of Significant Importance to all Craps Players.. Unfortunately, my First Impressions HAVE NOT turned out to be favorable.
In 7 days off posting to a CRAPS thread I titled ""CRAPS ~ DICE UNBALANCE MYSTERY ~ DICE PHYSICAL DATA"" here's some of what I encountered.
1) The usual fluff from those that have their Opinions Made up in Advance, as I had
anticipated.
2) A generally Aloof, rather than Congenial Attitude, expressed by Thread Moderators, which
serves only to Cut Off Needed Feedback, from potential posters on any thread.
3) Moderator attitude reminiscent of that of a 5th grade child, hardly what is needed on an
Informational Thread.
4) Closed Minded Post, by Moderator, essentially attacking Posts that I made & that were
intended to generate discussion about the threads subject matter.
5) A vague early threat to Bam me for posting several Paragraphs that had been posted
previously, (considered SPAMMING by them) but, which had relevance to, responding to
a posters specific question.
6) A request to "Clean Up a Table in my Post," when the software for this thread does NOT
Accept Excel Formatted Tables, Nor will it accept spaces inserted in an effort to Tabulate
Data, within the allocated posting area. Personally, I gave up trying after a half hour's efforts
& the only reason a Nice Table Appeared in my Post, was thanks to a member who provided
me with a Formatting Program that he wrote, to generate a table therein. Obviously, this
"Moderator" had NEVER attempted to enter a Table into any of his many postings on the
thread; what a HOOT that is!
7) With Moderator attitude expressed towards what they reefer to as "spamming", wherein
Nothing From a Previous Post Can Be Repeated in a Subsequent Posting, there is ZERO
CHANCE of Resolving the ""CRAPS ~ DICE UNBALANCE MYSTERY ~ DICE
PHYSICAL DATA"", NOR most other postings, through contributions posted to this
ludicrously run thread.
1. Sorry you took it as fluff, but I wasn't posting fluff. I'm certainly not an expert here about anything, except perhaps I'm the closest when it comes to knowing the minds of many of the members here, at least those of the members who would be your greatest asset. Yes, my mind has been made up. Yes, I guarantee many of those of whom I speak of are, too. My post was to inform you of where we stood and, most importantly, what would be needed in order for your project to gain legs and move forward.
2. Aloof? Perhaps. We do get a lot of insane theories in these parts, and it does become tiring after awhile. That's not to say your theory is insane, only that I agree that I'm sometimes aloof, and this is the reason.
3. Lol, no. I don't often act childish here. When I do, it is for a humorous effect, and I do it to such a level that no one is confused as to whether I'm joking or serious. You posted a theory. I pointed out where I found flaws, and pointed out additional things which would go far in proving it. Rather than address them, you told me to post it elsewhere and now call me childish? I fail to see where I've been uncouth.
4. See above. This is a forum where we search for the truth. As you not have proved a truth but are in search of the truth, we debate. You think you see something. I don't. That is not an attack, that's the first step. There's reason so many game inventors reside here, and so many games have WoV as a part of their birth. Because if you want the truth, you'll find the help to uncover it here. If you just want someone to support you just because you are you, call mom.
5. I deal with a lot of bots, sir. You seem to be a genuine person, but your habit of repeatedly copy/pasting previous posts is the modus operandi of 40+ bots I've banned in the last 2 or 3 months. If I ask you to stop and you stop - person. If I ask you to stop and you don't - bot. I asked, you stopped, you're not a bot, you didn't get banned. Just doing my job.
6. Wiz has generated and posted tables beyond count. He nicely asked you to clean it up so it was understandable. And I quote - "I would suggest cleaning up your table a bit. You clearly put a lot of time into it but I still don't know what a lot of columns mean and you don't need the blank rows and columns." I don't know why ensuring that your hard work was legible would be offensive to you, but then again, I don't know a lot of things.
7. Very rarely are previous posts necessary to copy/paste. Perhaps when verbiage is being questioned and there's a question of reading comprehension, such as has been going on in the Two Dice Puzzle thread. Otherwise, what ever you post obviously stays there for all to see and read. You had your conclusion, you posted your conclusion. There is no need to copy/paste it four more times within two pages of the same thread. Rule 5 "Do not post the same message more than once. This includes posting the same message in two or more places, and re-posting because nobody replied the first time. If you didn't get a response the first time, chances are nobody else had anything to say about it." Just doing my job.
Hopefully, this will serve to give some understanding to members who've decided to stick around.
Quote: eagleeye2When I scanned through Dice Forums a week ago, I picked Wizard of Vegas; to present what I feel is a Matter of Significant Importance to all Craps Players.. Unfortunately, my First Impressions HAVE NOT turned out to be favorable.
In 7 days off posting to a CRAPS thread I titled ""CRAPS ~ DICE UNBALANCE MYSTERY ~ DICE PHYSICAL DATA"" here's some of what I encountered.
8) Getting "A Three Day Suspension for Personal Insult", to an incoherent posting, tops the
thread attitude off.
9) Lastly having to frequently resort to Task Manager when switching between many Forum
Pages, to clear the Online Casino etc., Pop Up Tag Along Links; that apparently help to
make a profit for the site operator, come on guys, you need those pennies per Tag Along?
Bottom Line, I personally can no longer Afford to Waste My Time, Posting to your Forum!
My last post to Wizard of Vegas Forum ~ says Bye Bye ~ eagleeye2
I'll pick up the last 2, just to finish the response.
8) I suspended you for a personal insult, without malice, IAW the forum rules. You could still read and keep up with the thread if you liked during that time, you just couldn't post. You were returned to normal status on time and given the option of continuing; you'd served your time. As to incoherence, perhaps you might work on your own in many of these posts before you throw stones at others, should you return.
9) I'm genuinely puzzled that you're seeing pop-ups. I have a basic ad-blocker, but I still see some on other sites. I have NEVER had a pop-up here, coming up on my 2 year anniversary on the site. I'm not sure what might be different about your system, settings, or possibly a third-party virus/worm causing that problem. I did once see many of the words weirdly hyperlinked on here, but it turned out to be a 3rd party worm that Norton Rescue removed easily.
Otherwise, I would echo much of what Face said. This is one of the best places to post a system or scheme, if you want critical discussion and vetting from people who know what they're talking about. Which, if you're hoping to turn it into real money, I would think you'd encourage. If you're looking for blind agreement or taking your assertions on faith, you're right, you've been wasting your time all along. Best of luck to you.
Also, I hear it is easy to start your own forum.
Do you really think they want to know?Quote: DeMangoIf one, who attempts a controlled toss, would simply become a "dice counter", and jot down HIS results in a 4x6 notebook, he would have a dard copy of results (both dice) and be able to adjust on the fly his sets or bets or both. But no, that is too much work for 99.97% of all wanna be AP's. I would personally love to find results that favor 5's and 6's. $120 uptown please with a side of field bet!
Quote: AxelWolfDo you really think they want to know?
I think they are too Hoover Dam lazy!
Quote: eagleeye2
8) Wow, there may be validity, not superstition, behind some shooters pitching the Dice into the wall & rubbing them around there, or
scrubbing them on the felt, thereby cleaning them back to their manufactured state & minimizing potential Unbalance from accumulated
oil & perspiration therein, before they shoot! Yes, this habit would appear to enhance Balance of the Dice, before shooting them!
Vigorously rubbing one side of the die will clean it, but it will also heat that side of the die and add mass.
This action adds weight to that side of the die.
The question is whether it is enough weight to offset the loss of weight from the cleaning process..
It will also expand the surface area of that side of the die.
Adds new meaning to the term "Hot Roll".
Yes, I persomnally gave up on this thread ever being able to resolve the
""CRAPS ~ DICE UNBALANCE MYSTERY ~ DICE PHYSICAL DATA"", for reasons I posted earlier.
While the above remains true, I cannot allow postings that are 100% Incorrect to go unchallenged on this thread, so here goes!
Partial Posting by FACE:
1).... How come no one's done that bit of work of quantifying it (unbalance) ? It would go so far in progressing the idea, but no one has done / will do it.
Face is 100% INCORRECT! I Posted it on April 22nd, 2015 at 2:18:42 PM
2) .... Could be they'd find that .05g is enough bias to show a reasonable reflection in outcome. That would be a huge step in supporting their claim. Or, you could find even a full 2g doesn't affect jack, and then we, us and them, could stop w
asting our time and not deal with these threads anymore.
Face is 100% INCORRECT! I Posted it on April 22nd, 2015 at 2:18:42 PM
3) Either way, it's progress. But instead, they stick in the "stone age" of thought experiments and passionately worded arguments, and we spin our wheels going nowhere.
Face is 100% INCORRECT! I Posted it on April 22nd, 2015 at 2:18:42 PM
Here's an EXCERT from my VERY FIRST POST, on April 22nd, 2015 at 2:18:42 PM, on this very thread, Yes,it's #1 here:
.............
6) After verifying Balance, the #5 Die from 24902 (lowest average weight) was counter weighted to establish the weight needed to verify Unbalance in the Die. This was accomplished by adding Super Glue to the #6 Face of the Die. Some 5 drops added failed to verify unbalance in this test.
Adding another 5 Drops of Super Glue (& allowing it to dry), however resulted in Verification of unbalance, wherein a series of spin testing trials, resulted in some 4 of 6 Spin tests Documenting the #6 Face to Stop at OR NEAR the Bottom of the Balancer. In this test, the weight added to the #6 Die, Required to Verified Unbalance was only 0.1738 Grams as Applied directly to the #6 Face of the Die.. This is only 2.055% of the weight of the Die evaluated.
Yes, I Posted the results of a Specific Physical test to Establish Unbalance in A DIE
Face is 100% INCORRECT! I Posted it on April 22nd, 2015 at 2:18:42 PM
Additionally, I posted:
7) Of Note & Concern is the Maximum Weight Delta for Die #4 (From the as handled, etc. to the Wiped Clean Condition) was 0.17675 Grams, just over that weight it took to verify Unbalance in a Die!
Now, if that weight was uniformly distributed, over the Faces of the Die, no concern. However, if that weight was concentrated on a single Die Face, it alone could result in that Die Being Unbalanced.
Additionally, I posted:
8) Wow, there may be validity, not superstition, behind some shooters pitching the Dice into the wall & rubbing them around there, or scrubbing them on the felt, thereby cleaning them back to their manufactured state & minimizing potential Unbalance from accumulated oil & perspiration therein, before they shoot! Yes, this habit would appear to enhance Balance of the Dice, before shooting them!
Now Face, which of the following befell you in your postings, as I called you to the task above?
A) Sorry, failed to read all of eagleeye2's post...
B) Failed in Reading Comprehension, i.e. to understanding that the Super Glue was added to a Face Of the Die, in eagleeye2's post, in an effort to "Establish Level Of Face Weight required to Verify Unbalance in that Die.
c) Short term memory failed to recall eagleeye's posting, or his report of 0.1738 Grams of Weight to Verify Unbalance in his test.
d) Other, please explain so the folks can underastand
Additionally, as Die PiP's are potentially suspect in Die Unbalance, I Sectioned & Measured PiP thickness for a PiP on all 6 sides of the same Die & published results in the tabulated data I Posted. As average PiP thickness was only 0.030 Inches, with buit small variation, I doubt that 0.030 Inch PiP's would be the cause of Die unbalance, yet it could be.
If one suspects Die Unbalance, however, they can scan the PiP's through the Clear Die & visually establish if they are significantly Thicker than 0.030 Inches, & or of different apparent thicknesses say for the PiPs making up a '6' Vs The one making a '1'.
OMG, what are the odds that I will get suspended for SPAMMING, as the informatio in the above was previouslly "POSTED", DAM that SPAMMING Definition!!!
http://www.dicesetter.com/Casino%20Dice%20Surveys/Bias%20Dice.htm
eagleeye2
2) FOOD FOR More THOUGHT:
My question is ~ WHY DOES THE CASINO FREQUENTLY CHANGE OUT THE DICE AFTER A HOT ROLL?
RECALL ~
how many times you have seen the CASINO change out the DICE after a great roll by a SHOOTER? Now, it's obvious that most DICE can last a full day, or at least a full shift, why, then WHY DOES the CASINO change them out after that HOT ROLL?
Three potential ANSWERS IMHO:
1) CASINO Personnel are Superstitious
2) TABLE Personnel got that Call From Upstairs, to Pull & Inspect the DICE, to Error! Hyperlink reference not valid. that they haven't been changed or modified by a table magician!
3) Casino wants to CUT POTENTIAL LOSSES, by inserting DICE they feel will aid the CASINO, i.e. UNBALANCED DICE?
Anyone on the PLAYERS SIDE of the TABLE, (Do or Don't Bets) would love to be the one to figure things out & EXPLOIT it, while the uninformed continue to donate to the CASINO?
3) CONSIDER THIS ~ Never too old to learn, several weeks ago, I was playing & chatting with the player to my left, table was neutral, then a guy on the end got the dice, he was Setting Them, but had a rather wild throw. Suddenly he Had made two Points & I Stepped up my betting on him, as did the Player to my left.
Luck, etc. & he held the dice for some time, making all Do Betters MONEY!
Suddenly, the guy to my left taps me & says DAM, they are going to CHANGE OUT the dice! I said to him what makes you think that & he replied:
1) When you are on a HOT ROLL, don't watch the dice, watch the PIT BOSS!
2) I have been watching him closely & he has prepared a new sleeve of DICE!
3) Another several Rolls & Bingo 7~OUT.
4) I NOW watched the PIT BOSS Slip those NEW DICE IN & GET THEM IN PLAY, without all but that guy nest to me & ME catching the SWITCH!
5) Yes, after 35 Years of Shooting DICE, I Learned what to Watch & When to Watch, thanks to that unknown Shooter!
6) The next player 7'd out shortly, with all but the guy next to me & me having loaded up on a "HOT Table" Cooled by the CASINO!
Stick to this FORUM, We All Have Lots to Learn...
eagleeye2
4) KARMA ???
Most Craps Players continue to play, while feeding the Casino's, because they believe in KARMA, which is that Ancient Indian Concept, wherein intent, thought and actions of an individual influence future outcomes for that individual!
Thus you hear Craps Tables Erupt With Cheering, on those HOT Rolls, multiplying that KARMA many fold, with CASINO's fearing the HOT Roll's effect on their bottom line for the DAY.
From your posts, you apparently do not believe in KARMA, or that CASINO's Frequently Change Out the Dice after that HOT ROLL, in their effort to KILL OFF THAT KARMA?
eagleeye2
5) AxelWolf, I seem to remember A-High having a special caliper made because he found the average caliper to be inadequate.
Yes, we have to Applaud "A-High" for his efforts; unfortunately his $2,000 Caliper is much more complicated & introduces more FRICTION into the Balance Equation, thus the $46 one, from Gamblers Supply, (assuming one uses the latter optimally).
Bottom Line Problem Us Craps Players thus face is:
1) Verified Unbalanced Dice are, sometimes, being used in Casino's
2) We are unsure exactly how this Unbalance affects the results of two Die Being Rolled On A Craps Table
3) Apparently no one here Knows Just How these Unbalanced Dice are Made to Exhibit Unbalance
4) Balance Caliper Verifies that the #6 & #5 Faces are Heavier than are the # 1 & # 2 faces
Somehow, we have to get to the bottom of the Unbalance Condition Observed, & how it affects the Numerical Outcome of a set of Dice thrown on a CRAPS Table.
eagleeye2
6) Very Thought Provoking post by TANKO, i.e.
Vigorously rubbing one side of the die will clean it, but it will also heat that side of the die and add mass.
This action adds weight to that side of the die.
The question is whether it is enough weight to offset the loss of weight from the cleaning process..
It will also expand the surface area of that side of the die.
Adds new meaning to the term "Hot Roll".
7) Answers to 1 to 6 above will go far in unraveling the subject of
CRAPS ~ DICE UNBALANCE MYSTERY ~ DICE PHYSICAL DATA, the subject of my First Posting to this thread!
All comments are welcome!
eagleeye2
