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So my question is, does anyone know how big of an edge would you have in that situation if the dealer did not take your come bets when a new point is being established and a 7 is rolled. I imagine you would have a pretty sizable edge. This probably is not a common occurrence but I will definitely try to engineer this situation in the future at a busy table!

how large do you think?Quote:OzzyOsbourneI imagine you would have a pretty sizable edge.

i say lower than 38%

you mean the dealer and player cheating the casino, all caught on video!Quote:OzzyOsbourneThis probably is not a common occurrence

eye wonders why

try to cheat and get away how many times?Quote:OzzyOsbournebut I will definitely try to engineer this situation in the future at a busy table!

name the casino and i will contact them about a player and dealer cheating them

should bring me some good comps

what split did you make with the dealer?

i hope not 50/50?

i hate cheaters, all colors

they cheat me too

but the Craps God, she WILL balance the books in the end

cheaters go home

and watch UK!

Sally

Quote:OzzyOsbourneSo my question is, does anyone know how big of an edge would you have in that situation if the dealer did not take your come bets when a new point is being established and a 7 is rolled. I imagine you would have a pretty sizable edge. This probably is not a common occurrence but I will definitely try to engineer this situation in the future at a busy table!

That depends. Had your Come bet's point been made, would the dealer have paid off? If not, then the edge is zero.

If so, then the edge depends on what was the pass line point, and what was your come bet point.

Let's say the shooter throws a 4 on the come-out, then you make a come bet and the shooter rolls a 5.

Your "edge" is in the situation when:

(a) The shooter throws a 4 before a 5 or a 7 (a 5, and you win your come bet normally; a 7, and you lose it normally);

(b) The next roll is a 7, possibly followed by additional 7s - and this assumes the dealer thinks your come bets are still "off";

(c) Either the shooter throws a 5 before a 7, or the shooter makes a point before a 5 or 7, in which case you repeat (b) and (c).

Something tells me that the minute the dealer didn't pay off a winning come bet on a come-out, or didn't pay a winning DC bet on a 7 on the come-out, the bettor would have complained, somebody higher up in the casino food chain would have pointed out the error, and come bets would start losing again on 7s on the come-out.

This does not take into account odds, and assumes that all come out sevens (again, once the come bet is established) are missed by the dealer.

Quote:OzzyOsbourneI was recently playing craps in Vegas at a 10 dollar table in Vegas with some friends. They are all gambling neophytes so I just told them to bet the pass line while I bet the pass and the come every roll. At one point I had all the numbers bet except for 9. A shooter hit the point, and on the new come out rolled a 7, everyone celebrated except for me since I had lost the 10 dollars I had on each number I had bet. Normally they return the odds to you and take the bet in that situation, but he just left it there. Later on in the session, he did it again!!! This time, I only had 3 numbers but I had now saved 80 dollars.

So my question is, does anyone know how big of an edge would you have in that situation if the dealer did not take your come bets when a new point is being established and a 7 is rolled. I imagine you would have a pretty sizable edge. This probably is not a common occurrence but I will definitely try to engineer this situation in the future at a busy table!

This has happened to me a couple of times. I don't know the edge though.

Quote:mustangsallyi hate cheaters, all colors

What about a roulette player who pulled the favorable denomination-switch trick with her chips on three different occassions?

https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/general/19484-discovery-channel-sep-10-wed-nite-3-new-ganbling-shows/6/#post395573

Quote:mustangsallyand of course you have played Roulette in most all the casinos in the world.

I wonder why I am asked to be on Roulette teams more than Bacc teams these days.

maybe because I am fat but pretty even one team did say I did not have enough money to offer to them

hey, their loss

sure an old scam that still works very well today all over the world and the casinos still seen clueless until they get hit more than one time

I only say it is easy because the 3 times I tried it

I was successful and the Roulette Dealer and Floor person was sorry to see me cash out so soon.

2 times I wore no makeup and jeans

that had to throw them for a loop loop

Sally

Queen of Roulette

Personally, I feel being a hypocritical windbag about the topic of cheating would make me a poop poop.

I'm not wearing any pants or makeup either.

Quote:odiousgambitWhat about a roulette player who pulled the favorable denomination-switch trick with her chips on three different occassions?

HOW DO I THUMBS UP THIS POST? WHERE DAFUQ IS THE THUMBS UP BUTTON?

Quote:odiousgambitWhat about a roulette player who pulled the favorable denomination-switch trick with her chips on three different occassions?

??? Please expand on this sentence.

Quote:nodicemanHOW DO I THUMBS UP THIS POST? WHERE DAFUQ IS THE THUMBS UP BUTTON?

The usual way on a forum is to quote the post and then add "+1" below it

Quote:ThatDonGuyThe usual way on a forum is to quote the post and then add "+1" below it

Lol - was more of a joke than anything. Consider my above post to be equivalent to +2, which is twice as emphatic as +1.

I'd face the music myself

Quote:mustangsallythe Craps God, she WILL balance the books in the end

cheaters go home and watch UK!

Sally

These sound like decrees issued by pink-clad feet. Caveat emptor.

You bet as much as you f*****ng can on the come without reminding dealer they lose on a 7-winner. And you ignore Sally's poor advice.

Come bet when the point is 4 or 10 wins 52.038315%

Come bet when the point is 5 or 9 wins 53.236524%

Come bet when the point is 6 or 8 wins 53.586236%

The "math" comes out right for 4 and 6, but for 5, I get 52.841021%.

First, let P(N) determine the probability of winning a come bet whose point is N when the shooter is about to make a come-out roll.

If the shooter throws a 2, 3, 7, 11, or 12, then you are back in the same situation, so these rolls can be ignored.

If the shooter throws an N, the come bet wins.

Otherwise, if the shooter throws an X, which becomes the pass line point, then only three numbers matter:

(a) If N is rolled before 7 or X, the come bet wins

(b) If 7 is rolled before N or X, the come bet loses

(c) If X is rolled before 7 or X, you are back at the starting condition, so all of the rolls so far are ignored

If the come point is 4:

Come-out | Prob | Win | Lose | Ignore |
---|---|---|---|---|

2,3,7,11,12 | 12/36 | 0 | 0 | 1 |

4 | 3/36 | 1 | 0 | 0 |

10 | 3/36 | 3/12 | 6/12 | 3/12 |

5,9 | 8/36 | 3/13 | 6/13 | 4/13 |

6,8 | 10/36 | 3/14 | 6/14 | 5/14 |

The win probability = 3/36 + (3/36 x 3/12) + (8/36 x 3/13) + (10/36 x 3/14)

The loss probability = (3/36 x 6/12) + (8/36 x 6/13) + (10/36 x 6/14)

P(4) = W / (W + L) = 939 / 2089

Using similar calculation methods:

P(5) = 659 / 1238

P(6) = 19105 / 31951

Note that P(8) = P(6), P(9) = P(5), and P(10) = P(4)

Now, to determine the probability of a particular come bet winning

If the point is 4, and the next roll is:

7 or 11: the come bet wins

2, 3, or 12: the come bet loses

4: the come bet wins with probability P(4)

5: one of three things will happen:

(a) 4/13 of the time, 5 is rolled before 4 or 7, and the come bet wins

(b) 6/13 of the time, 7 is rolled before 4 or 5, and the come bet loses

(c) 3/13 of the time, 4 is rolled before 5 or 7, and the come bet has probability P(5)

6: one of three things will happen:

(a) 5/14 of the time, 6 is rolled before 4 or 7, and the come bet wins

(b) 6/14 of the time, 7 is rolled before 4 or 6, and the come bet loses

(c) 3/14 of the time, 4 is rolled before 6 or 7, and the come bet has probability P(6)

10: one of three things will happen:

(a) 3/12 of the time, 10 is rolled before 4 or 7, and the come bet wins

(b) 6/12 of the time, 7 is rolled before 4 or 10, and the come bet loses

(c) 3/12 of the time, 4 is rolled before 7 or 10, and the come bet has probability P(10) = P(4)

If the point is 4 when the come bet is made, the probability is:

[7,11] 8/36

[4] + 3/36 x P(4)

[10] + 3/36 x (3/12 + 3/12 x P(4))

[5,9] + 8/36 x (4/13 + 3/13 x P(5))

[6,8] + 10/36 x (5/14 + 3/14 x P(6))

= 0.52035065

If the point is 5 when the come bet is made, the probability is:

[7,11] 8/36

[4,10] + 6/36 x (3/13 + 4/13 x P(4))

[5] + 4/36 x P(5)

[9] + 4/36 x (4/14 + 4/14 x P(5))

[6,8] + 10/36 x (5/15 + 4/15 x P(6))

= 0.52841021

If the point is 6 when the come bet is made, the probability is:

[7,11] 8/36

[4,10] + 6/36 x (3/14 + 5/14 x P(4))

[5,9] + 8/36 x (4/15 + 5/15 x P(5))

[6] + 5/36 * P(6)

[8] + 5/36 x (5/16 + 5/16 x P(6))

= 0.53578545

Quote:RSWhat's the right thing to do?

You bet as much as you f*****ng can on the come without reminding dealer they lose on a 7-winner. And you ignore Sally's poor advice.

Glad someone on here has some sense! :)

I should have added that it was at a Caesars property, then I think everyone would be on our side.

Quote:OzzyOsbourneSally what drugs are you on?

F.. ... EDIT suspension worthy. Perhaps a PM.

Speaking of music https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PMfKPcd8HsgQuote:odiousgambitthe big question becomes, "what does an honorable person do when busted?"

I'd face the music myself

Run, Sally, run

Gotta put your mind together

Run, Sally, run, run away

Run (run) Sally, run

(Run, Sally, run)

No one ever cared about you

Run, Sally, run, run away today

Gotta find understanding

Gotta find love somewhere

Gotta find someone who

Will show they really care

Run (run) Sally, run

(Run, Sally, run)

Maybe you can find the answer

Maybe you can find the place for you

So run, Sally, run (run, Sally, run)

Run, Sally, run (run, Sally, run)

Run, Sally, run until you do

Gotta find understanding

Gotta find love somewhere

Gotta find someone who

Will show they really care

Run (run) Sally, run

(Run, Sally, run)

Maybe you can find the answer

Maybe you can find the place for you

So run, Sally, run (run, Sally, run)

Run, Sally, run (run, Sally, run)

Run, Sally, run until you do

Run (run) Sally, run

(Run, Sally, run)

Maybe you can find the answer

Maybe you can find the place for you

Run, Sally, run, Sally

Run, Sally, run, Sally

Run, Sally, run, Sally

Run, Sally, run, Sally..

Lyrics provided by http://www.lyricsbook.net/lyrics/438714.html