Kicked off the table for being a don't player!
Thread Rating:
Anyways nobody could roll a number, much less a point. The table was extremely cold. There was one guy that lost $3,000, and his friend who also bets a few hundred dollars on every shooter got clobbered. Both guys (I think they are friends) got completely cleaned out and had to go take markers, or cash advances, or whatever and bought in again. One guy for $3,000 again, and the other looked like $1,500. I won $200 and I swear if the come out rolls weren't bad I would have made much more. I didn't even lay odds because I was on a $25 table with a $100 bank roll and didn't want to blow through it.
I left the table and cashed out. The other party didn't want to leave so I decided to go back to the same table and see if I could have another cold streak.
Anyways I actually had a $25 chip still in my pocket. I put it on the don't come and lost as they rolled a 7. The roll was over and one of the players that was getting destroyed says to me as I go back to the table "Come on lets see you buy in again", as if he's taunting me. As soon as I threw down my $300, both him and his friend started complaining loudly to the box man "Can we make this a seven stars only table", the box man says hang on, and brings the floor man and the floor man says "Are you playing?", and I said "Yeah that's my money, I had previous action" and I pointed to the cash. He says "This is now a seven stars only table" and I was forced to leave. One of the dealers joked to me about the cash "Is that a dealer hand in?"
I went to another table and I kept checking to see how those two were doing. They were not doing well! One of them got completely cleaned out and left before the other one that had at the most about $500 in green (a far cry from his 2nd $3,000 buy in). Every time I came over the dealer that joked "Is that a dealer hand in", would waive at me the goodbye hand gesture. It made me not want to tip the dealers. It's the first time in a long time that I've actually wanted somebody to loose their money.
I'm not a Seven Star but I'm more than halfway there. I thought it was totally uncalled for to make the table seven star only.
I understand that when people are losing money, they get frustrated but blaming it on somebody else is pure BS. People should worry about their own bets, and not what other people are doing.
Annoying when people bitch about other people playing. "Oh that stupid a****hole dark sider! Grrrr!!!! I hope he loses all his money what a f*****ing jerk!!!" Like damn, calm down..he's just gambling too, 'lright?
That is kind of a funny joke, I think, from the dealer. Maybe he had a poor attitude? Someone threw me a purple chip the other day after he colored up. He quickly realized his mistake and asked for it back and threw in a quarter. A quick "Sorry no give backs!" gave him a chuckle. Threw us an extra quarter...he thought it was funny.
I find it strange, I always thought casinos grandfathered you in I didn't think they could do this once your money id down. This was funny however it was absolutely uncalled for and disrespectful that the pit and dealers did this.
You should post the time, location and names. I would talk to management.
Why is it you're focused on the players who probably don't care if they lose or win? 6k to them may be equal to your $6.Quote: guitarmandpIf I see this guy tonight (He usually comes on friday and saturday nights), I'm going to say to him "How much did you win last night? you must have won your 6K back plus more, because I'm sure me leaving the table changed your luck soooo much" or I will sarcastically congratulate him on his "Big win".
The focus should be how the casino dealt with this situation. Any reason you're avoiding this aspect?
Some of us would like to know what casino and who the dealers and pit was?
This is very unusual.
The guy that threw the biggest fit about getting the table changed to seven stars only is a Physical Ed teacher so him losing $5,000 or $6,000 in one night would obviously bother him. He used to not bet nearly as much but he had a huge $70,000 win a few months ago on a table that had two one hour plus monster rolls that included a six point fire that he was on for $25, so I disagree that he didn't care if he lost. He's been slowly giving that money back.
Quote: guitarmandpI will just say it was at a horseshoe.
The guy that threw the biggest fit about getting the table changed to seven stars only is a Physical Ed teacher so him losing $5,000 or $6,000 in one night would obviously bother him. He used to not bet nearly as much but he had a huge $70,000 win a few months ago on a table that had two one hour plus monster rolls that included a six point fire that he was on for $25, so I disagree that he didn't care if he lost. He's been slowly giving that money back.
...and they would rather piss you off than him while they are in the process of getting their money back from him!!
Don't worry about him; ask the casino why they would kick a player off of a table that was not in violation of any rules. I can see reserving a table or a part of one, but not while someone is already playing.
Quote: RonC...and they would rather piss you off than him while they are in the process of getting their money back from him!!
Don't worry about him; ask the casino why they would kick a player off of a table that was not in violation of any rules. I can see reserving a table or a part of one, but not while someone is already playing.
Well, if I read it right, he had cashed out, and left the table. It was after he came back, and attempted to buy in again, that they made it a 7 star. Well, he said he had made one bet with a chip he had in his pocket, and when that lost, then he attempted to buy back in. So technically, I guess you could say he was a player with standing, based on the one chip bet, although I could see the pit declaring he was not really a player.
Really odd situation, and very odd ruling from the pit. Not much fun playing on a table that obviously doesn't want you around.
If it were me, I'd be eager to name the property, date, time, table, and names.
I would think it's possibility a gaming violation?Quote: WizardI would be a lot more angry at the casino than the player. Other players I expect to be jerks much of the time but for the staff to run you off a table where you were already playing because a bigger player asked them to is entirely unprofessional and unethical.
If it were me, I'd be eager to name the property, date, time, table, and names.
Quote: WizardI would be a lot more angry at the casino than the player. Other players I expect to be jerks much of the time but for the staff to run you off a table where you were already playing because a bigger player asked them to is entirely unprofessional and unethical.
If it were me, I'd be eager to name the property, date, time, table, and names.
I agree with Mike on this one. You should shame the casino here. Unless the table is previously marked "reserved" or something. Kicking a player off a table he was on just minutes before, seems like poor customer service at best, and a gaming violation possibly at worst. All be it a minor one. If I was the OP I'd name the time and place, and staff members if he knows their names here. Then calmly speak to management at said casino and mention that you have written up this very poor customer service on a public gaming site. Couldn't hurt, might help. If nothing else you will have brought some poor cust. service to the attention of upper management.
If I had a green name would've you agreed with me ;)Quote: vendman1I agree with Mike on this one. You should shame the casino here. Unless the table is previously marked "reserved" or something. Kicking a player off a table he was on just minutes before, seems like poor customer service at best, and a gaming violation possibly at worst. All be it a minor one. If I was the OP I'd name the time and place, and staff members if he knows their names here. Then calmly speak to management at said casino and mention that you have written up this very poor customer service on a public gaming site. Couldn't hurt, might help. If nothing else you will have brought some poor cust. service to the attention of upper management.
I can think of ONE reason he doesn't want to say names, places and times.
But I'm sure he will go with not wanting to bring attention to himself.
And the reason I'm more pissed at the player is because he said to me "Why don't you put your money down", and as soon as I put my money down he asks that they make the table a seven stars only table. It just came off to me as extremely cowardly.
I want to mention one other thing. The Seven Star / Diamond table might be offered at only a few casino's. The disadvantage about it is that it's a $25 minimum, this is usually a negative but on a good table it can be a positive. The advantage though is that you usually don't get the riff raff that screw up the table with their complicated hop bets, a million prop bets, or people that put late field bets in causing their hands to hit the dice.
ZCore13
Quote: AxelWolfI would think it's possibility a gaming violation?
In Nevada, I don't know whether it is convention or policy but if they change the limits at a table they always grandfather in any old players. I've never seen it happen but I'm sure a big enough player could ask that a public table be made private. However, I would expect that any existing players at the table would get grandfathered in and not be made to leave.
I think it would at least be worthy of making a complaint but I'm not sure who would win.
Quote: Zcore13Just remember, there are two sides to every story...
ZCore13
Isn't the correct way to say it, there are 3 sides to every story.
Quote: GWAEIsn't the correct way to say it, there are 3 sides to every story.
I complained to the casino manager. The only thing that is in dispute is that I clearly heard two of the people ask basically in unison to make it a seven stars only table, and the casino manager had a word with me tonight and claimed it was only one of them when I know it was both of them and heard it with my own ears. It doesn't matter, they do not grandfather people in at the casino I play in.
Quote: WizardIn Nevada, I don't know whether it is convention or policy but if they change the limits at a table they always grandfather in any old players.
Certainly not always. I've seen limits raised at Rio without players being grandfathered. Sometimes they will allow existing players to continue playing at the old limits for one trip of the dice around the table.
I also recall a group of us playing at MSS during one of the WoVCon weekends several years ago. They raised the minimums and essentially ran a whole group of us off the table because we were unwilling to play at the higher level, and they would not grandfather us in on that table. I think the increase was only from $5 to $10, but some members of our little WoV group just didn't want to play above $5. (Maybe it was from $10 to $15.) We were right on the verge of going across the street or down to Fremont when someone noticed that the table right next to us was still at the lower minimum and had space available, so we just moved over there. We couldn't understand why they would run their tables that way.
Were people setting (or even sitting) the dice?Quote: DocCertainly not always. I've seen limits raised at Rio without players being grandfathered. Sometimes they will allow existing players to continue playing at the old limits for one trip of the dice around the table.
I also recall a group of us playing at MSS during one of the WoVCon weekends several years ago. They raised the minimums and essentially ran a whole group of us off the table because we were unwilling to play at the higher level, and they would not grandfather us in on that table. I think the increase was only from $5 to $10, but some members of our little WoV group just didn't want to play above $5. (Maybe it was from $10 to $15.) We were right on the verge of going across the street or down to Fremont when someone noticed that the table right next to us was still at the lower minimum and had space available, so we just moved over there. We couldn't understand why they would run their tables that way.
Quote: WizardIn Nevada, I don't know whether it is convention or policy but if they change the limits at a table they always grandfather in any old players. I've never seen it happen but I'm sure a big enough player could ask that a public table be made private. However, I would expect that any existing players at the table would get grandfathered in and not be made to leave.
I think it would at least be worthy of making a complaint but I'm not sure who would win.
This goes back about five years ago: four or five of us players were at a table and asked to move to another empty table because a high roller wanted the table we were on. None of the players objected or even questioned it including me.
More recently a high roller came to a table I was on and asked tbat it be made private. All tables were in use. The pit boss said they could stop new players and it would be his alone once the rest of us left. The high roller was ok with that and bought in and played with the three of us.
I think we cost him about two hundred thou as each of us sevened out and left.
Quote: WizardIn Nevada, I don't know whether it is convention or policy but if they change the limits at a table they always grandfather in any old players. I've never seen it happen but I'm sure a big enough player could ask that a public table be made private. However, I would expect that any existing players at the table would get grandfathered in and not be made to leave.
I see a lot of conditional grandfathering. At the Rio, they bumped a 5$ table up to 25$ (big jump, since there were only three people in the pit...) one morning and told everybody that the new minimum would be enforced starting the next shoe. A few other places went by next dealer change.
Quote: AxelWolfWere people setting (or even sitting) the dice?
As I have posted before, I always set the dice the same way when I am shooting. Takes maybe two seconds. Of course, I'm not stupid enough to think it affects the way they come to rest at the other end of the table.
And no, our group included none of those jerks who, after the dice are sent to them, take 30 seconds throwing the dice backwards or doing their calisthenics against the table rail or participating in other voodoo rituals before throwing.
Well no wonder.... you were all to dam boring ;)Quote: DocAs I have posted before, I always set the dice the same way when I am shooting. Takes maybe two seconds. Of course, I'm not stupid enough to think it affects the way they come to rest at the other end of the table.
And no, our group included none of those jerks who, after the dice are sent to them, take 30 seconds throwing the dice backwards or doing their calisthenics against the table rail or participating in other voodoo rituals before throwing.
Old Chinese saying: If you sit by the river long enough, you will see the bodies of all your enemies go floating by.
I'm trying to wrap my brain around the idea you would want to continue being a regular at a casino that treated you that way.
(emphasis by boldface added for this quote)Quote: Doc (on page 3 of this thread)Quote: WizardIn Nevada, I don't know whether it is convention or policy but if they change the limits at a table they always grandfather in any old players.
Certainly not always. I've seen limits raised at Rio without players being grandfathered. Sometimes they will allow existing players to continue playing at the old limits for one trip of the dice around the table.
I also recall a group of us playing at MSS during one of the WoVCon weekends several years ago. They raised the minimums and essentially ran a whole group of us off the table because we were unwilling to play at the higher level, and they would not grandfather us in on that table. I think the increase was only from $5 to $10, but some members of our little WoV group just didn't want to play above $5. (Maybe it was from $10 to $15.) We were right on the verge of going across the street or down to Fremont when someone noticed that the table right next to us was still at the lower minimum and had space available, so we just moved over there. We couldn't understand why they would run their tables that way.
Well, it seems my recollection was not accurate. I just stumbled across my original post of that incident back on 5/16/2012. When it was three years fresher in mind, I reported our group's experience this way:
Quote: DocMSS was operating a $5 craps table when some of us started playing, but they soon raised the minimum to $10, grandfathering us in at $5. When the others arrived, the box man was not willing to let the others join us at $5, even after checking with the pit supervisor. We all colored up and were starting to move to another casino down the street (So was this a good/bad business move for MSS?) when we noticed that space had opened at the very next table where they still had it at $5, so we moved to "another casino" six feet away.
My apology, Wizard. You may be completely correct.
Quote:Crap players actually are more superstitious than Baccarat players, sometimes abusively so. Very Sad.
Really?
If some crapster-clown starts to "abuse" me at a craps table, I'll quickly put an end to it.
One of the guys that had me removed from his table came up to me last night and said "Is this a hot table", and I quietly said "yes" and didn't acknowledge him after that. He blindsided me. I was planning on coming up to them the next time I saw them and "congratulating" them on a "$30,000 win" and when they responded "What are you talking about", I would have said "I thought when I got kicked off the table, since I'm the black cloud that the table was guaranteed to get hot, you guys had to have won at least 30K without me there"
The relative minority of do bettors who are aware of things recognize that don't bettors tend to keep better track of the table's flow than the preponderance of ploppies.Quote: guitarmandpOne of the guys that had me removed from his table came up to me last night and said "Is this a hot table", and I quietly said "yes" and didn't acknowledge him after that.
Quote: SanchoPanzaThe relative minority of do bettors who are aware of things recognize that don't bettors tend to keep better track of the table's flow than the preponderance of ploppies.
Just because somebody's losing on the don't doesnt mean the table is "hot" or "good". When I loose on the donts it happens far more often that a bunch of shooters are making 2 or 3 passes in less than 5 minutes, than a bunch of shooters making 2 or 3 passes but rolling for 30+ minutes and repeating the inside and outside numbers multiple times.
The rolls people want to be on is not a roll where somebody makes 3 or 4 really quick passes and then goes out, but long rolls where most of your numbers get pressed up to multiple times your original bet.
Quote: guitarmandpIf somebody is getting the don't pass and another player is betting the pass, how is that different than one roulette player betting black and another betting red?
Part of the lure of craps IMO is a pack mentality, where everyone wins together and loses together. Don't players, while making a better mathematical play, get the ire because they are the one winning when they all lose.
Quote: Gabes22Part of the lure of craps IMO is a pack mentality, where everyone wins together and loses together. Don't players, while making a better mathematical play, get the ire because they are the one winning when they all lose.
I think that's one of the misconceptions about craps. Usually everybody loses whether you play the pass or the donts. Most people usually only win if theres a couple of big rolls where lots of inside and outside numbers are repeated. The only time the donts win is when they go around the entire table and nobody can make a point,
More often than not the table is choppy and neither side is really "winning". It's rare that the table consistently stays one way or another.
Also most people that I see playing the donts, don't really have the bankroll to lay odds. Most people I see "betting the dos" have a passline bet, 1x odds, and a couple of numbers with the minimum amount. It's hard to win playing the "good side" unless you have a great roll where your able to press. I think it's almost impossible to win the donts unless you lay odds. Sooner or later there is going to be a come out roll that will deplete your bank roll (even if you are on a so called "cold" table) if your playing without odds.
Quote: guitarmandpIf somebody is getting the don't pass and another player is betting the pass, how is that different than one roulette player betting black and another betting red?
Well, here is a post from last fall when I discussed a table with a mix of right-side and dark-side players with both types winning money throughout the session. (Skip to the 6th paragraph of that post to get to the story.)
I don't think you're ever going to get that kind of outcome with half the roulette table playing red and the other half playing black.
Quote: DocWell, here is a post from last fall when I discussed a table with a mix of right-side and dark-side players with both types winning money throughout the session. (Skip to the 6th paragraph of that post to get to the story.)
I don't think you're ever going to get that kind of outcome with half the roulette table playing red and the other half playing black.
That is partially why I play the DC instead of the DP. Great when the stars align....
Darth Vader
Quote: darthvaderGreat when the stars align....
Indeed! I usually play the Do's, but when the mood strikes, I'll switch to the Dont's. I love it when the shooter comes out with a 7-winner and I have DC money behind! It's the only time I feel I can openly cheer when playing the darkside! Everybody wins!*
