Late Don't Pass Bet
I was wondering about a late Don't Pass bet. Obviously this has to have a nice edge for the player, correct? You would essentially be getting paid 1 to 1 on a a bet that has odds of 6:5, 3:2, or 2:1 of hitting. Will the dealers yell at me for trying to do this?
Correct.... which is why it's not allowed.Quote: AvincowObviously this has to have a nice edge for the player, correct?
Maybe not 'yell', but they generally won't allow it. Of course if you had been betting the DP, you might get a little leeway by claiming you forgot to put the bet up, but certainly if you're forgetting every time, it's not going to be allowed.Quote: AvincowWill the dealers yell at me for trying to do this?
Quote: DJTeddyBearCorrect.... which is why it's not allowed.
Maybe not 'yell', but they generally won't allow it. Of course if you had been betting the DP, you might get a little leeway by claiming you forgot to put the bet up, but certainly if you're forgetting every time, it's not going to be allowed.
I have seen a player surreptitiously make a DP bet after the point is established. He did this a couple of times while I was at the table. This is, of course, cheating, but the dealers did not notice. After the guy had left, I mentioned to the boxwoman that someone was past-posting, and she said, "I tell these dealers all the time to watch for that, but...". This was when the craps (cards) game at Cache Creek was fairly new, and the dealers were not very experienced.
Cheers,
Alan Shank
I've had players keep trying to increase it (secretively)...if I know how much they had, they get the capped amount back. If I don't remember, they get the entire thing pushed back.
I've never made the attempt myself, but if you have a Match Play coupon and are not known to the House as a Table Game player, (or known to them at all, for that matter) you'd very likely get away with a plea of ignorance if you tried to bet that. Maybe even try it on some poker variant first that tells you Match Plays are only allowed on Even Money bets, then you'll really look like you have no idea what's going on.
If you still want to do it, I recommend you vary your DP bets and take odds, then sometimes cap your bet while taking odds. And have someone available to post bail for you.
It's rarely considered intentional so unless you were purposefully running around doing it you would probably be fine.Quote: sc15This is considered past posting, which is cheating.
If you still want to do it, I recommend you vary your DP bets and take odds, then sometimes cap your bet while taking odds. And have someone available to post bail for you.
Are there any actual cases that anyone has ever been arrested for this?
Quote: AxelWolfIt's rarely considered intentional so unless you were purposefully running around doing it you would probably be fine.
Are there any actual cases that anyone has ever been arrested for this?
People have made it into SINs for capping/past-posting their don't pass bet.
I'm sure if you keep it up after being warned there's a solid chance you get arrested.
Quote: AxelWolfObviously If you keep doing, it and they keep warning you.
It's unlikely you get more than 1 warning.
If you do it again you'll either be 86ed or arrested.
I might be willing to make a wager I can get more than 1 warning without being 86ed.Quote: sc15It's unlikely you get more than 1 warning.
If you do it again you'll either be 86ed or arrested.
Quote: AxelWolfI might be willing to make a wager I can get more than 1 warning without being 86ed.
Well, this highly depends on the situation.
If you show up looking suspicious and looking like you're trying to pull some angle, you might not even get 1 warning.
If you show up totally smashed out your mind, betting big action ($1000s+ per roll) on all kinds of sucker bets, you'll get an infinite # of warnings. They'll just call a suit to stand by you and make sure you're placing the bets appropriately.
Quote: AxelWolfI might be willing to make a wager I can get more than 1 warning without being 86ed.
In order for you to do that on craps....you'd have to know where the don't-pass line is and also know when you're allowed / not allowed to bet/increase it. :)
Quote: AxelWolfIt's rarely considered intentional so unless you were purposefully running around doing it you would probably be fine.
Are there any actual cases that anyone has ever been arrested for this?
Yes, even NFL football players. Over three $5 bets!
Quote: AcesAndEightsYes, even NFL football players. Over three $5 bets!
The article is extremely vague. For all we know, the guy increased his field bet after a 12 was thrown. That is deliberate cheating, as opposed to a late don't pass bet which could be a honest mistake.
I was curious about making a late don't pass bet to see if the dealers would let me make it. But I guess this actually crosses the line into cheating territory, so I won't try it.
Good, don't.
Temptation to try this and that has to be warded off. You might get away with it for a while, but getting caught is either big trouble or at the least damn embarrassing. And the thing is, you'll never prosper.
The temptation that keeps coming back to me* is to pick up my pass line bet after the point was set, since I accidentally did this once and got away with it. Sort of shocked myself, "did I just do that?". Certain circumstances have to be in play, which I won't go into. Since I refuse to do it on purpose as a matter of living with myself, along with the above reasons, when actually at the table I no longer even think of it.
*while pondering at times like these
Quote: AvincowQuote: AcesAndEightsYes, even NFL football players. Over three $5 bets!
The article is extremely vague. For all we know, the guy increased his field bet after a 12 was thrown. That is deliberate cheating, as opposed to a late don't pass bet which could be a honest mistake.
I could have sworn it was a Don't Pass bet, but I can't find an article that confirms that. I probably made it up.
Quote:I was curious about making a late don't pass bet to see if the dealers would let me make it. But I guess this actually crosses the line into cheating territory, so I won't try it.
Good, it's called "shot taking" and it's not really something you want to make a habit of.
Quote: rudeboyoiWouldn't the best time to make a past post be when the dealer on your side of the table forgets to turn their puck to on when the point is established?
I think the best time to make a past post (or other shot-taking) is never. I can't see that anything like this would be profitable enough to warrant taking on the risk of arrest, and if the bet was big enough to change my lifestyle, I'm pretty sure it would be recognized as suspicious if not outright fraudulent. Casinos are hardly paragons of virtue, but intentionally past posting is stealing. Stealing from a casino is still stealing. No thanks.
Quote: DaddydocI think the best time to make a past post (or other shot-taking) is never. I can't see that anything like this would be profitable enough to warrant taking on the risk of arrest, and if the bet was big enough to change my lifestyle, I'm pretty sure it would be recognized as suspicious if not outright fraudulent. Casinos are hardly paragons of virtue, but intentionally past posting is stealing. Stealing from a casino is still stealing. No thanks.
Definitely don't do it. Purely a hypothetical question on what's the best way to believably claim ignorance.
Quote: DaddydocI think the best time to make a past post (or other shot-taking) is never. I can't see that anything like this would be profitable enough to warrant taking on the risk of arrest, and if the bet was big enough to change my lifestyle, I'm pretty sure it would be recognized as suspicious if not outright fraudulent. Casinos are hardly paragons of virtue, but intentionally past posting is stealing. Stealing from a casino is still stealing. No thanks.
Yeah, the real issue with past posting is it's not worth it as a scam.
You can, at most, past post a black chip and get away with it. And that's for even money bets. It'd be pretty hard to past post a black chip on an inside # on roulette since that kind of action gets a lot of attention.
The only way I'd recommend past posting is if you're a homeless drug addict/alcoholic doing it for your next fix. In that case jail is probably nothing compared to the hell your life already is.
Quote: sc15
The only way I'd recommend past posting is if you're a homeless drug addict/alcoholic doing it for your next fix. In that case jail is probably nothing compared to the hell your life already is.
Not to put too fine a point on it...
Cheers,
Alan Shank
Quote: rudeboy99Look, man...when the stickman pulls in the dice to the top of the prop bets following a roll, they will remain motionless for a short period of time, depending on the speed of paying off winners, placing new bets and making player adjustments to existing bets. This time frame is when you should be making your financial moves and adjusting ANY action you've got going, because once the dice are slid to the shooter, preparatory to this next roll, you shouldn't be making any late bets, or getting change,etc. Although dealers can and will book your bets "on the fly" in these circumstances, they are loath to do so mainly because of potential misunderstandings of what the player is actually trying to say, leaving the possibility of the player betting WAY over his comfort zone, or a similar snafu. So do all your business at the right time and it will keep everybody happy. If you ARE taking a cheap shot during this time frame, and try to continue doing so, it soon becomes obvious, and if you don't stop late betting you will probably be told in no uncertain terms that your action and you personally aren't wanted on the game and to not let the door hit you in the ass on your way out the door. And if you ARE trying something against the rules, they've most likely got a picture of you that they are emailing to the casino that you're heading to up the street.
This is not what I was asking about.
I was talking about making a don't pass bet after a point has been established. I was not asking about making a bet after the dice had already been thrown.
Quote: rudeboy99Look, man...when the stickman pulls in the dice to the top of the prop bets following a roll, they will remain motionless for a short period of time, depending on the speed of paying off winners, placing new bets and making player adjustments to existing bets. This time frame is when you should be making your financial moves and adjusting ANY action you've got going, because once the dice are slid to the shooter, preparatory to this next roll, you shouldn't be making any late bets, or getting change,etc. Although dealers can and will book your bets "on the fly" in these circumstances, they are loath to do so mainly because of potential misunderstandings of what the player is actually trying to say, leaving the possibility of the player betting WAY over his comfort zone, or a similar snafu. So do all your business at the right time and it will keep everybody happy. If you ARE taking a cheap shot during this time frame, and try to continue doing so, it soon becomes obvious, and if you don't stop late betting you will probably be told in no uncertain terms that your action and you personally aren't wanted on the game and to not let the door hit you in the ass on your way out the door. And if you ARE trying something against the rules, they've most likely got a picture of you that they are emailing to the casino that you're heading to up the street.
I saw this. Then thought I don't remember saying that. Then realized it wasn't me.
Quote: rudeboyoiI saw this. Then thought I don't remember saying that. Then realized it wasn't me.
I had the same thought!
I think technically you were, when you said this; "I was wondering about a late Don't Pass bet." in your op. Most of us when we have seen a late "don't pass" bet it was somebody "taking shots" or past posting, or capping [adding to] their stack. Casino's don't let you late bet a don't pass bet [dp], they will however let you place a don't come, after the point is established. Or, you may lay a bet against the point. Some players insist on making a late pass bet, which is to the casino's favor so they often allow that. A late dp bet would be to the player's advantage and that is not acceptable.Quote: AvincowThis is not what I was asking about.
