Dealer arrested at the casino I go to while on stick!

There's this dealer that has been dealing at the casino I go to since it opened 2 years ago, and he worked at another local casino for over 10 years prior to that. I did not like the guy personally because I could tell he did not like me. He rooted for me to loose! I'd have $100 on the don't pass and there would be 3 people at the table with 2 other people playing the passline for $10 and he'd smile and laugh when they'd roll a Yo on the come out roll. If I won he'd say "You should be ashamed of yourself". He always knew I was a Van Halen fan (I'm only a fan of DLR era Van Halen) so he would always put down Van Halen to me.

Anyways I was surprised to find out that he was arrested for helping a player steal $80,000 from the casino. I was told by a dealer at another casino, whose brother is a boxman/floor manager at the casino that this dealer was busted at. Anyways this player would hand the dealer $100 and he would book him for $270 across, or he'd hand the dealer two black chips and get booked for $540 across. The player would then take all his bets down after one hit. This player would always be at whatever side his dealer friend was at, and the dealer wasn't taking his 20 minute breaks. Anyways the casino did an investigation and they took the casino for $80,000 with this scam.

Anyways they arrested him while he was doing stick! Can you imagine you are playing craps and they arrest the stickman! I was told that the casino knew about this for a few months but let it go on while they continued to build their case and see if other people were involved with the scam. I'm told that some dealers and bowmen might be getting fired over this for not catching it.

Some gamblers speculated that they probably arrested him at the table instead of knocking on his house or apartment door to set an example with other employees.

the dealer in that "dice dominator" episode comes to mind LOL

There's gotta be a whole slew of problems in order for this type of thing to occur, at least as it is presented in the OP. Not saying it isn't true, but am very skeptical.

Your first line of defense against cheating and whatnot is other dealers and boxman at the table. They are supposed to correct errors, help each other with payouts, and ensure everything happens properly (ie: "You shorted the guy $1 on the hook when paying the line" or "that pays $119 not $121" or "that hard 10 that just came in is two from you not three-from" etc.). Same goes with when setting up bets and whatnot. If someone throws in $86 and says "$96 accross including", the base dealer might not be thinking clearly and go ahead and set it up, while the stickperson and boxman should fix the error.

The kind of "error" mentioned is a significant error and very easy to spot. I mean, come on. Either there was something very wrong with the dealers, they were all getting paid off, or....I don't even know.

But let's say it did somehow slip through the cracks and the box person + other dealers never caught this "$100 for $270 accross" stuff. You still have surveillance. I would suspect if this happened, the first time surveillance caught it, they would phone down stairs to the pit, and tell the pit boss of the "error". I would assume the pit boss would correct the error or do something about it.

And lastly, you have OTHER PLAYERS at the table. Frequently enough, people will say "I had the same bet he had, how come he got paid more than I did?!?" I'd imagine a player at this casino would see the error and make a fuss. It only takes one (although I'd imagine there'd be several players that'd spot the error...and at least one of them would report the dealer or make a huge stink over it).


My last point isn't too strong, but, what kind of a retarded scam is this anyway? How stupid would you have to be to come up with this idea? I mean, at least do something strange to disguise it as a dealer error. Maybe have the guy bet $168 on the 6 and $246 on the 8, and overpay him like that. Or accept "next roll hop bets", where the player drops money as dice are being thrown, mumbles something, dealer yells "Bet!", no one else knows what's going on, and whatever the next number that is rolled, the bet magically appears on that number. IE: Drop $50 as dice are in the air. If they land on a 5 or 9, book it as a two way 5 and 9. If it's a 6 or 8 book it as a $15 3-way 6 and $15 3-way 8. Etc. Or hell, even get a group of people that all make ridiculous prop bets ($24 3-way 7, $32 horn, $22 CE), then over-pay the player(s). Or accidentially double-pay a player. Or don't take down a bet when it should be taken down, or take/move them in the wrong way. (IE: Hard ways are $5 each. If a hard 6 or 8 hits, press all the hard ways $10 and give the player $25 [instead of $5].)

The thing with craps is, you can make so many bets and make it super confusing, especially if the layout is poorly designed (no hop box, small horn box, etc.), that if even the box person is damn near the best there is, he wouldn't be able to keep up. Most of the time the box person just makes sure everything is happening "good enough". If someone over or underpays someone on a weird bet, especially on some weird press, he's likely not paying good enough attention to spot it. But he will make sure that each bet is paid or taken appropriately, but not necessarily if the amount is correct.

The scene in "Casino" comes to mind when the slots get cheated and Rothstein (Rosenthal) says, "Either you were too dumb to see what was going on or else you were in on it! Either way, you're out!"

I find it hard to believe the box or stick never caught that $100 turned into $270. On the one hand this kind of bet would keep the dealer's hands in his working stacks and out of the bank. OTOH when you buy in the boxman is supposed to watch you spread the cash and cheques each and every time. I can see getting away with this once or twice on a busy night, but not over and over. When you buy in for blacks the box is supposed to log where the cheques went.

The other dealers had to either be in on it or were told the parking garage is a dangerous place and it would be a shame if a couple dudes mugged and beat them after a hard day on the floor. I can see the guys manning the eye missing it, but the box and floor not so much.

As to arresting him on the floor, that is bad for business. Arrest him in the dealer's break room. Players do not need to see that, very bad for business. I think I read that back in the day in vegas there was only one mafia-connected guy arrested on the floor, the others were asked to go to the back room and talk.

Somebody, perhaps management caught it early on and they decided not to do anything while they built their case. I'm guessing the casino wanted to see if other boxman or dealers were in on the scam.

I was told that some of the dealers and box men will probably be fired over this. It is a fact that the casino got taken for $80,000 and I would expect to hear a lot more about this in the coming months as the casino is prosecuting.

And btw: I've had some dealer errors before come out significantly in my favor. One time I had my 10 pressed up to $200 but my 6 was only at $60 and a 6 rolled and the dealer thought a 10 rolled and paid me with 4 black chips.

Quote: guitarmandp

the dealer thought a 10 rolled

these are some weird errors ... maybe the guy thought "hey, he'll keep his mouth shut"

but like has been said, these kinds of errors are very detectable, what the ...

Well, remember, errors are detectable because they are mistakes and are openly done.

When a hustle is going on, it is pre-meditated. What I am getting at, is while the other dealers should have caught it, likely, the actions were purposefully undertaken when the moment was just right. When the dealer, from his experience, knew his co-workers were distracted.

Possibly, one co-worker did catch and is the reason this came out, alerting the pit boss that there was something funky going on. We won't know till the facts come out.

As for other players blowing the whistle, probably unlikely. Players are too busy in their own bets and many would assume the dealer knows what he is doing.
Plus, many don't care or are rooting for theft from the casino as they are losing their money gambling. In "American Roulette", Richard Marcus states many times that the players were the last people they worried about. They had a rat amongst the players once a decade. Most of the time they saw something they kept quiet, even smiled at them as they capped and past-posted.

Quote: guitarmandp

And btw: I've had some dealer errors before come out significantly in my favor. One time I had my 10 pressed up to $200 but my 6 was only at $60 and a 6 rolled and the dealer thought a 10 rolled and paid me with 4 black chips.

Maybe that was a test. Or hush money.

Quote: guitarmandp

... and the dealer wasn't taking his 20 minute breaks.

How common is this? I've never seen a dealer refuse a break. Seems like it would surely draw attention.

I'd've tried booking the same bet, in the same fashion, to see what happened.

Quote: Joeman

How common is this? I've never seen a dealer refuse a break. Seems like it would surely draw attention.

I agree. I never got the feeling there was anything optional about it anyway.

Quote: Joeman

How common is this? [for the dealer to refuse breaks] I've never seen a dealer refuse a break. Seems like it would surely draw attention.

It's not uncommon; sometimes - on occasion - a dealer may be preferred by a customer, and the dealer and floor can oblige the player, or the dealer may be giving an extra break for another dealer who was stuck on a table for longer, past his break.

Anyway - this story is heartbreaking. It is a disgrace of sorts to gaming, to have a dealer just rip off the business in such a cavalier manner thinking he was slick, and to be an agent in this type of scam. Bad apples exist on both sides, and in too great of numbers. I gotta say at least some of the crew, more than one, had to be in on it, you really can't miss this type of maneuver if watching the game.

For the dealer to be arrested on the floor may be a message, and such tactics have been used for the delivery of that message.

I'm confused how the box could let this go down. You take in $200 in cash/black and put $540 across. At those times the box should be looking at the chips in vs the chips placed and figure it out pretty quickly. That the casino got taken for $80K as a result is ridiculous and certainly the box should be getting penalized severely for allowing this.

Surveillance should have picked thta up very easily too.

It is NOT the job of surveillance to go out and slap cuffs on somebody,,, they "build a file" for court use.

Arrests are always made on the floor.... they want the employees to see it and often the dealers pound the chips on the table in cadence with the Perp Walk steps.

Wasn't taking breaks??? Rotation and breaks are mandatory for that reason. Always.

Dealer-Player collusion can be costly.

I have a feeling about this: TOTIB. Tip Of The Ice Berg. Look for the Box Man to "retire" soon.

Maybe it was a three man crew without a boxman.

If that's the case, the rogue dealer could have timed his "error" moves to those times the stickman was watching / helping the other dealer.


No matter what the scenario, it's pretty amazing that, with all the cameras, that anyone thinks they can get away with anything in a casino.

Quote: guitarmandp

He rooted for me to loose!

It's finally happened. I've seen the word
'lose' written as loose so many times in
the last 15 years that I actually paused
and wondered if loose was the proper
spelling. Sigh..

It's sounds quite absurd for something so obvious to be even attempted without some form of blackmail. Some people don't need anything but greed to something like this, but greed sure wouldn't be enough for me. He better hope he was blackmailed or threatened somehow and he has proof.

Quote: onenickelmiracle

It's sounds quite absurd for something so obvious to be even attempted without some form of blackmail. Some people don't need anything but greed to something like this, but greed sure wouldn't be enough for me. He better hope he was blackmailed or threatened somehow and he has proof.

Short of someone having possession of his kids or something, he isn't getting away w/ this.

I was at the casino again last night and I spoke to some of the regulars and they all say that it would be very easy to get $540 across betting $200 as long as you had a dealer and a boxmen that were both in on it. They think there had to have been a boxmen in on it.

One of the other boxmen did tell somebody I knew that there will probably be other dealers and boxmen fired as a result from the fall out of this. Somebody on stick, another dealer, or a regular player had to have noticed something shady and gone to somebody.

I do not trust survalience to catch any mistake. I have spent countless hours on the tables and the only time I ever see survalience get involved is when a player argues with the ouse over a questionable call. The one time I saw survalience do anything was on a roll where a 5 point fire was hit and a bunch of people had $25 on it, and the boxman screwed up and overpaid everybody that had a quarter on it by $1,250 or something like that, and they are required to oversee payouts on the fire and check the tapes to make sure each point was legit. I have seen countless dealer mistakes and the only time survalience ever gets involved is when the floor manager calls upstairs. I've accidentally pulled my $10 passline bet off, been overpaid by a few hundred dollars, had my don't come bets get paid to the wrong person, had the dealer take a quarter off my don't pass bet and put it on the players passline bet after the chips knocked off our bets, had the "on" puck on two different points, etc.. I could go on and on and survalience never gets involved.

A scam like this will probably be successful if a dealer does it once or twice when the floor is busy. But if you do it over and over and over to the tune of 80k, you're 100% guaranteed to eventually get caught. And the security camera evidence makes it easy to prosecute. I'm shocked that this isn't obvious to every employee of every casino on planet.

Quote: Paigowdan

For the dealer to be arrested on the floor may be a message, and such tactics have been used for the delivery of that message.

Apparently, Target also arranges for employees to be arrested at the store to discourage co-workers from shoplifting. Handcuffed employees have to walk "the walk of shame".

Hopefully the casinos are a bit more competent than Target security. From the article: "It turned out that the managers had confused Kellner for another employee with a similar name who was suspected of stealing, according to Kellner. "I never even got an apology," he said.

Quote: EvenBob

It's finally happened. I've seen the word
'lose' written as loose so many times in
the last 15 years that I actually paused
and wondered if loose was the proper
spelling. Sigh..

now that's funny....and so true.

Quote: reno

A scam like this will probably be successful if a dealer does it once or twice when the floor is busy. But if you do it over and over and over to the tune of 80k, you're 100% guaranteed to eventually get caught. And the security camera evidence makes it easy to prosecute. I'm shocked that this isn't obvious to every employee of every casino on planet.

You can say that, but why didn't they get caught at 30k 40k 50k 60k 70k?

Don't for a minute think the real number is 80k. That's all they have record for.

Quote: AxelWolf

You can say that, but why didn't they get caught at 30k 40k 50k 60k 70k?

Don't for a minute think the real number is 80k. That's all they have record for.

Like I said earlier. The casino knew that this was going on well before they busted him, they just wanted to gather more evidence and see if any other employees were involved.