All Tall and Small Bet

Am I missing something? I have just recently visit a Casino that allows players to remove their All Tall and Small bets in the middle of a roll. What am I not considering. Is it not in the House's advantage to lock the bets in (Seven is still the number rolled the most.) Please, help my ignorance....

It's kinda like how the don't pass or don't come becomes a player advantage once you get past the initial 7 or 11. That's why the casino lets you take down don't bets.

Similarly, because of the payout, even though a 7 is most likely, at some point the All bets become a player advantage. Put another way, if you had the opportunity to place the All bet after several numbers were already made, would you?

Really interesting. Care to name the casino?

Quote: DJTeddyBear

...at some point the All bets become a player advantage.

BTW... I have no idea at what point that occurs.

If it's as soon as one number is rolled, regardless of the number, then I'd say the casino should allow you to take it down. Otherwise, to avoid confusion, they shouldn't allow it at all.

Since you've found a casino that allows it, I'd be curious to know when / under what conditions do they allow it?

If they allow the bet to be taken down, it should ALWAYS be allowed to be removed. Any kind of rules put in place to make sure you can only take it down once it becomes a player advantage would be... as mentioned... overly and unnecessarily complicated.

I don't think you should be able to take it down at all. It's just weird for a bet of that nature.

Quote: crapman

Am I missing something? I have just recently visit a Casino that allows players to remove their All Tall and Small bets in the middle of a roll. What am I not considering. Is it not in the House's advantage to lock the bets in (Seven is still the number rolled the most.) Please, help my ignorance....

Sounds like this was just a mistake. I don't believe that there is any point were you are allowed to pull it back. If there was, I'd imagine some sort of a counter or something to illustrate this option to the player. That being said when I had placed the bet at a few different locations, I was told the bet is the same as this Fire bet, where once it's placed, it's placed...

Quote: DJTeddyBear

.at some point the All bets become a player advantage. BTW... I have no idea at what point that occurs.

For the Small it's after any number.

Numbers Hit	Probability of completing	Player EV (34 to 1)
None	0.02635390925	-0.0776131763
6	0.03019480519	0.05681818182
5	0.03233678087	0.1317873303
56	0.03831168831	0.3409090909
4	0.03634453782	0.2720588235
46	0.04343989344	0.5203962704
45	0.04703629704	0.6462703963
456	0.05952380952	1.083333333
3	0.04518507808	0.5814777328
36	0.05461205461	0.9114219114
35	0.05930735931	1.075757576
356	0.07619047619	1.666666667
34	0.06785714286	1.375
346	0.08831168831	2.090909091
345	0.0974025974	2.409090909
3456	0.1428571429	4
2	0.07370717518	1.579751131
26	0.09032634033	2.161421911
25	0.09844322344	2.445512821
256	0.1287878788	3.507575758
24	0.1131427396	2.959995886
246	0.15	4.25
245	0.1660839161	4.812937063
2456	0.25	7.75
23	0.1446553447	4.062937063
236	0.1948717949	5.820512821
235	0.2164502165	6.575757576
2356	0.3333333333	10.66666667
234	0.2545454545	7.909090909
2346	0.4	13
2345	0.4545454545	14.90909091
23456	1	34

For the All bet it's every number but 6 or 8. Not going to make a chart for the 1024 states for that bet, but if you have a specific state, I can look it up.

Wow! The responses on this thread are absolutely mind blowing as to how far from the truth they are and a true example of theory vs. reality; book sense vs. street sense and common sense.

Maybe the Wiz can weigh in more on this subject, but it would be interesting to find out what games rule(s) were actually filed with the State Gaming Commissions as those are the rules that the casinos must follow in that particular state that have this particular proposition bet. Absent any rules that were filed with the State Gaming Commission, then it depends on the detail of rules listed in the patent. Again, if any.

Since this All, Tall, Small proposition bet is on approximately one-third of all tables in Las Vegas, I have talked directly to the Nevada Gaming Commission as to the character of this bet and all bonus bets including the Fire Bet. I was impressed in that the Gaming Agent I talked to was actually knowledgeable on craps, unlike most State Gaming Commission agents that only know slots or BJ.

The Nevada Gaming Commission Agent confirmed that all proposition bets in Nevada are non-contract bets and can be removed at any time before a decision has been made on them (7-out).

Quote: Bohemian

Absent any rules that were filed with the State Gaming Commission, then it depends on the detail of rules listed in the patent. Again, if any.

That is not correct. The patent has absolutely nothing to do with it. 99.9% of Table Games Directors/Managers/Supervisors have never seen a game patent in their life. If the specific situation is not in the game rules it would generally fall under some type of "Pit Decisions are final but can be appealed..." wording. There is no way to list every possible irregularity, so Pit Supervision would make the call based on the situation, not a patent.


ZCore13