Joined the Darkside but needs some advice...

I have just recently started playing craps after I was introduced to it 10 years ago. I have done some research and the Darkside seems like the way to go for me. In my last two visits I have doubled my money by only betting the min DP and backing it up with 3x odds at the $10 tables.

My first visit only took 40 minutes to double up. The second visit took 2 hours to double up after being nearly wiped out by a hot shooter.

Should I make a play for the DC or just keep on with min DP? I've got a small bankroll 160 quatloos. Also what is your take on tipping? I've been making bets for the dealers and tossing in hand ins.

Almost any technique will work for awhile.

What currency is a quatloo?

DP and DC are the same bets made at different times, just Pass and Come bets are the exact same bets made at different times. You can always wait around for the next official "come out" roll or you can declare the shooter's next roll to be your own private come-out roll between you and the casino. That is exactly what a Don'tCome or Don'tPass bet is. They put that "hockey puck" on the official Point Number and they put your stack of chips on the Private Point Number.

"nearly wiped out"... is why you should never be "married" to a particular strategy and why dealers will often say as a new player approaches: Choppy but a bit better on the Dark Side.

A minimum bet with odds is the best way to go, no matter which side you play and no matter whether you also place additional bets as FleaStiff describes. If you play don't pass exclusively, eventually you will be burned. If you play pass exclusively, eventually you will be burned. If you flip a coin to decide which to be next, eventually you will be burned. Celebrate your success. Don't EVER count on winning. Only put down quatloos you can afford to part with. If you are not having fun and enjoying the excitement of play, STOP.

I don't bet for the dealers. I simply put a tip down and announce, "for the table." I believe the dealers prefer a tip to a bet since they know they will, overall, lose the house edge amount of bets.

Quote: FleaStiff

What currency is a quatloo?

Triskelion

Quote: DarkNewty

My first visit only took 40 minutes to double up. The second visit took 2 hours to double up after being nearly wiped out by a hot shooter.

Should I make a play for the DC or just keep on with min DP? I've got a small bankroll 160 quatloos. Also what is your take on tipping? I've been making bets for the dealers and tossing in hand ins.

I left my Quatloos on Triskelion.

Unless you don't mind a hot shooter picking off your DC bets like ducks in a shooting gallery, why not first try increasing your Odds bet to 5X before trying the DC.

You will reduce the HE to 0.23%.

Win or lose, I always leave a chip or two for the crew before leaving the table. I never bet for the dealers.

Quote: DarkNewty

I have just recently started playing craps after I was introduced to it 10 years ago.

why the long wait?
were you on a date?

Quote: DarkNewty

I have done some research and the Darkside seems like the way to go for me.

sounds fun
what research exactly did you do?

Quote: DarkNewty

In my last two visits I have doubled my money by only betting the min DP and backing it up with 3x odds at the $10 tables.

I had to read this again.
and one time more...

Does this mean you Lay $30 odds for every point?

I was thinking at first your Lay odds of $60 to win $30, $45 to win $30 and $36 to win $30, working out to in

so my answers below are not for you (but will be close) if you do what I just thought you did,
as you really were not that specific on the exact $$$ you bet on the odds

and one has to be very specific on the dark side

Quote: DarkNewty

My first visit only took 40 minutes to double up. The second visit took 2 hours to double up after being nearly wiped out by a hot shooter.

with a $160 bankroll you mention below
(I actually did a simulation and calculation for this before, strange I say)

Question back to you
How often do you think you can double your starting bankroll playing the way you do?

my results

Quote: DarkNewty

Should I make a play for the DC

yes, IF you want to lower your chances of doubling your starting bankroll

Quote: DarkNewty

or just keep on with min DP?

but you said you lay the odds

Quote: DarkNewty

I've got a small bankroll 160 quatloos.

...

Quote: DarkNewty

Also what is your take on tipping?

I accept any and all tips that come my way,
in other words, yes, I do take them ;)

Quote: DarkNewty

I've been making bets for the dealers and tossing in hand ins.

sorry to hear that
ugh
I only tip one time right after I am done playing for that session, IF and only IF I win

=====================================================
I always play in the light (the LIGHT WAY) and make many Lay bets, most against the shooter's point
That way I ALWAYS win on a 7

you always lose your dpass on a come out roll 7, always
that (don't pass) is a sucker bet in my opinion as are don't come bets too

think about it
Lay bets always win on any 7


have fun in the dark
Sally

Quote: mustangsally

Why the long wait?

Needed the money for bills and didn't really understand the game all to well.

Eat your betting money
but don’t bet your eating money.

Quote: mustangsally

sounds fun what research did you do exactly

I did some research on the net and I lurked on these forums for awhile. And found this website

Quote: mustangsally

with a $160 bankroll you mention below
(I actually did a simulation and calculation for this before, strange I say)

I got lucky with everyone crapping out. Shooter only made the point one time. On my first visit.

I am not sure what your calculation is supposed to represent. Dice and balls are two different items. Sure every guys has balls but you still can't roll them on a craps table.

Quote: mustangsally

How often do you think you can double your starting bankroll playing the way you do?

I go into the casino thinking, "You will most likely lose this money." The casino has more money than I do and eventually they will win it all. Law of Large Numbers has shown me this. I'm going to get burned right side or wrong side. In my own experience I've seen more cold tables than hot.

If I double my money I leave. If I am not having fun I leave.

I've also seen shooters establishing a point. When that happens I think being on the Darkside makes more sense because there are 6 ways to roll a 7. I understand I can not predict the future of whether or not a point will be established.

I was laying the odds every time with 30 units. I should probably change that given the point that is established. 40 for 4&10, but should I keep 30 for the other points? They do offer 100x times odds where I go.

Should I get a players card if only play on a $10 dollar table?

Quote: DarkNewty

I did some research on the net and I lurked on these forums for awhile. And found this website.../

thank you for that
Talks a lot about house edge.
Most all gamblers have no clue what house edge is and how it even relates to them and their gambling

Bet all your $160 on the dpass the moment you get to the casino
will give you the BEST chance to double your bankroll (leaving out the lay odds)

You either win or lose $160 (not counting the push) but the house sees an edge bringing in less than $2.20

Quote: DarkNewty

I got lucky with everyone crapping out. Shooter only made the point one time. On my first visit.

I am not sure what your calculation is supposed to represent. Dice and balls are two different items. Sure every guys has balls but you still can't roll them on a craps table.

I go into the casino thinking, "You will most likely lose this money." <snip>

my calculation, btw, shows 47.5% chance to double your starting $160 bank
before ruin (less than $10 left)
from my Excel

I would start with $170 and try to hit $320
better than a 50% chance that is

I gave an example just to imagine what 47% means

and also mentioned adding just ONE DC lowers your chances of doubling your $160 bankroll
yes, a fact it is

still, 47.5% is not 1% and is close to 50% (but is not equal to 50%)
so you are a dog but not a almost dead dog

Quote: DarkNewty

If I double my money I leave.

me too, it is fun to double-up

Quote: DarkNewty

If I am not having fun I leave.

most craps players are not having fun when they are losing. that is a direct session function of making the wrong bets or wrong bet amounts at the wrong time

just too many wrongs to make a right, imo

Quote: DarkNewty

I've also seen shooters establishing a point.

that is the game of craps

Quote: DarkNewty

When that happens I think being on the Darkside makes more sense because there are 6 ways to roll a 7. I understand I can not predict the future of whether or not a point will be established.

well, the odds do favor the don't pass at that point (the reason one can NOT make a dpass after the point is established)
but the 7 and 11s KILL the dont pass on the come out roll.
just make more than 200 lifetime bets and you will feel the pain of that event

I Lay against the point just established and ask the shooter if they are going to 7OUT real fast so I can WIN real fast and have winnings to tip the Dealers

Quote: DarkNewty

I was laying the odds every time with 30 units.

30 dollars. You bet $10 on the dpass - that is your unit size
that is what I figured
you did say 3x odds and on the don't that means you can win that much and have to bet even more to win that much
actually you lay 1.5x (4,10) and 2x (5,9) ands 2.5x (6,8)

your link talks about this fact of the lay odds

Quote: DarkNewty

I should probably change that given the point that is established. 40 for 4&10, but should I keep 30 for the other points?

your choice

Quote: DarkNewty

They do offer 100x times odds where I go.

of course your $160 bankroll just can only wish about 100x odds on the dont
100X means you can win $1000 from laying the odds.
imagine a $10 dpass and $2000 lay odds on the point of a 10. ($2000 pays $1000)
cool!!!

Quote: DarkNewty

Should I get a players card if only play on a $10 dollar table?

yes. I have one and used it as a $5 line bettor back in the day

have fun!

Look to study the Lay bets
you may never go back to line bets
Sally

Quote: mustangsally

I Lay against the point just established and ask the shooter if they are going to 7OUT real fast so I can WIN real fast
Sally

sounds easy enough :/
whats the % to go from 170 to 320 with your lay to compared to the above
thx

Thank you for the advice but I do need to clarify a few things.

The 100x odds was wrong I believe. You can back up your bet up to 100x. What I was doing was $10 min and backing up each line bet with $30. That was the only bet I was making for my first two sessions unless I thought the shooter was going to make his point. Then I would just bet the $10 and not back it up(Typically on 6,8). Should I change the back up amount pertaining to the point that was established when playing the darkside?

Also what is the probability of winning $395 with a $160?

Next time I will bring $170 thank you for that advice.

I still don't understand laying the odds. Perhaps I will just tip a dealer when the table slows down so he or she can tell me.
Or maybe I need to read that website a few more times.

When you lay odds you bet on the numbers and hope they make it or or 7out?

Quote: DarkNewty

What I was doing was $10 min and backing up each line bet with $30.

sounds all good to me

Quote: DarkNewty

That was the only bet I was making for my first two sessions unless I thought the shooter was going to make his point.

cool!
sounds good to me

care to share your secret how you think you know the shooter was going to make his point.

do you bet differently when the shooter is a cute woman like myself?
just asking

Quote: DarkNewty

Then I would just bet the $10 and not back it up(Typically on 6,8).

buts the 6&8 lay odds pays the most. I like winning more and often

Quote: DarkNewty

Should I change the back up amount pertaining to the point that was established when playing the darkside?

the "back up amount" = lay odds

you can do what makes you have more fun or makes you feel better

I bet more when I know I am going to win my next bet

Quote: DarkNewty

Also what is the probability of winning $395 with a $160?

without looking, it will be less than 47.5%
unless you know when the shooter is going to make his point

Quote: DarkNewty

Next time I will bring $170 thank you for that advice.

you are welcome and it is just a numbers thing
you may lose your next 15 sessions in a row, it is possible even with >50% chance to win each session target

Quote: DarkNewty

I still don't understand laying the odds.
Perhaps I will just tip a dealer when the table slows down so he or she can tell me.
Or maybe I need to read that website a few more times.

When you lay odds you bet on the numbers and hope they make it or or 7out?

the pass/come bets players TAKE the odds (as they are an underdog)

the don't players lay the odds (more to win less, like sports betting on the favorite, you bet more to win less)

Sally

Quote: bahdbwoy

sounds easy enough :/

yes it does
those new trying this proven winning technique have to get used to it.
a bit intimidating at first, imo

I just remind the shooter I like to tip my Dealers with my winnings, so please hurry it up

Quote: bahdbwoy

whats the % to go from 170 to 320 with your lay to compared to the above
thx

thank you for asking

as a comparison to the OP style of play (it is what I calculated)
first the OP has an average bet of $30, imo
1/3 * $10 + 2/3 * $40 = 10/3 + 80/3 = 90/3 = yep yep


right away, most casinos do not allow a $30 Lay against the 4 or 10. they say
"Sally, make it $40"

buts, I do this after the Angel game tonight, unless they blow the game up with 20 runs in the first inning

game is ON!
Sally

Quote: mustangsally

care to share your secret how you think you know the shooter was going to make his point.

If the table is hot and shooter is dicesetting I just make the call to back up or not back up. Dicesetting people are people I try to avoid if I am going Dark. Also 5 ways to roll a 6,8 so I'm a little weary on those numbers.

Quote: mustangsally

do you bet differently when the shooter is a cute woman like myself?

I usually go late at night when the table min are low. A lot of men there I rarely see women playing and if I do they are hanging on the arm of some guy (some gangbangers most not). I might make an exception for you alone but other than that the dice don't care about gender.

Quote: mustangsally

you may lose your next 15 sessions in a row, it is possible even with >50% chance to win each session target

I fully expect to lose hopefully I have some fun while doing so.

Quote: mustangsally

the pass/come bets players TAKE the odds (as they are an underdog)

the don't players lay the odds (more to win less, like sports betting on the favorite, you bet more to win less)

Thank you for that.

Do you ever go Dark? If so when and why?

I also thought the whole thing about players treating you differently for playing darkside was a myth.
On my second session after I had switched tables I had one lady tell me,"I was the reason why the table went cold." and The guy next to me would stare at me sternly after I would win. After awhile he walked away.
I didn't celebrate when I won but it was just weird and kind of amusing on the inside.

Does anyone care if a Darkside shooter shoots the dice? At a table full of right side players I pass. If it just me and 3 other people I will shoot the dice.

The dice may not care about gender but they sure seem to have a lot of sex.

Quote: DarkNewty

I did some research on the net and I lurked on these forums for awhile. And found this website http://delafe.com/craps/

got a kick out of who he is

http://delafe.com/

Quote: Tanko

I left my Quatloos on Triskelion.

Unless you don't mind a hot shooter picking off your DC bets like ducks in a shooting gallery, why not first try increasing your Odds bet to 5X before trying the DC.

You will reduce the HE to 0.23%.

sometimes betting more on the odds starts to lower the chance of doubling a bankroll
can also lower the fun value of playing craps.

imo, I do not think your 5x idea works well.
6x should work much better because that is the standard 345X odds

5X for the 5 = $50 lay odds and that should be $51 to pay $34
5X for the 6 = $50 lay odds and that should be $48 or $54 to pay 5:6

and the curve is in OPs favor with $160 start bank
even $170 works well to hit the $320 target
see
the chances laying $60 odds every point (talk about easy bets for dont player)


one problem (maybees) is the average number of bets is way lower than OPs $30 lay odds method
about 12 vs 32...

buts I (eye Sally) have way more fun doubling a bankroll in half the time than grinding it out
"shooter, you going to 7out real fast for me and my dealers?" roll
"Thank you"

maybe because of all the other male superstitious players at the table.
(all male craps players are superstitious too, imo.
Craps plays so much better in CA with cards and on the shoot to win machine imo too (two))

so much more fun to play solo, no male craps players required, imo says Sally

Sally

Quote: odiousgambit

got a kick out of who he is

why
is he some strange form of human?

Quote: DarkNewty

Also what is the probability of winning $395 with a $160?

I simmed this 4u real fast in WinCraps

WinCraps answers so many questions a craps player can come up with

but simple math shows this
160/395 = 40.506329113924050632911392405063% (rounded)

see where those two values came from?
160 = start bankroll
395 = target bankroll
(this is from the Gambler's Ruin formula from the 1600s)

but this is when the payoffs for the bets are true (no short pays on a win)
so against a house edge bet (the don't pass) it has to be lower

abouts = 38.5% (I may extend my matrix and calculate it, maybe, I would do it for BruceZ)

Sally

added:
I calculated this also in Excel
have been working on me Markov chain studies

for $30 odds each point I show 38.64% to turn $160 into $395 (why $395) with an average number of games = abouts 46 (*3.375 for rolls) for success or ruin
for $60 odds each point I show 38.86% to turn $160 into $395 (why $395) with an average number of games = abouts 17 (*3.375 for rolls) for success or ruin

about the same chance but of course, less time playing on average



50% chance to hit a $395 target requires a $206 bankroll ($30 lay odds)
50% chance to hit a $395 target requires a $205 bankroll ($60 lay odds)

I still like to win fast
and easy
(and the Tina Turner way - Proud Mary - nice and rough)

Sally still says she is so HOT!

Quote: DarkNewty

Do you ever go Dark? If so when and why?

you mean making don't pass bets? yes, just for a short time. After maybe a year of playing.
I played scared when first starting out. I would buy in for $20, make a $5 pass line bet and "freak out!" waiting for a point winner was no fun for me, so I started to play the don't pass instead

Then I started to Lay against numbers because the don't pass lost way too much on those come out 7s and 11s
and win on any 7 rolled. I liked that.
and notice on the layout of a craps table, a LAY is not even printed, they have cute little LAY lammers instead (look it up)

most Lay bets I do make are against the shooters point unless I play card craps in Ca and there just watch the cards and the odds will swing to your favor.

Quote: DarkNewty

I also thought the whole thing about players treating you differently for playing darkside was a myth.
On my second session after I had switched tables I had one lady tell me,"I was the reason why the table went cold." and The guy next to me would stare at me sternly after I would win. After awhile he walked away.
I didn't celebrate when I won but it was just weird and kind of amusing on the inside.

I celebrate because I have fun. I do not rub the right way players nose in it, just celebrate and the dealers do too, I pay them when I win and double my bankroll too
they love me

Quote: DarkNewty

Does anyone care if a Darkside shooter shoots the dice?

the pass line players, most do. but most (maybe all) of them are lifetime losers at playing craps too
so just make sure the boxman (or woman) know those rude right way players are taking fun away from you and me (Sally) playing the LIGHT way

Quote: DarkNewty

At a table full of right side players I pass. If it just me and 3 other people I will shoot the dice.

is this from fear?
never play scared
I would bring it up to the dealers at the table for a vote

Sally

Quote: BleedingChipsSlowly

Triskelion

It seems a quatloo is some science fiction term unrelated to any currency the poster actually uses.

what about your lay probability sims to double up sally? do you get better results from a female dealer? since girls are a better lay . ;/

Quote: mustangsally

why
is he some strange form of human?

well, it is a male, ya know, with the evidently defective y chomosome according to some [won't mention any names]

Quote: mustangsally

why
is he some strange form of human?

I read the link and he says a "lay" is a sucker bet?

Why do the dealers want you to lay 40 instead of 30? Is it because of the vig and you are cute?

Quote: petroglyph

I read the link and he says a "lay" is a sucker bet?

He also says this, which is way wrong

"In order to win $20 on a "Lay" bet you've got to give them $21. Forget 'em."
nice
hahahaha ha!

To correct the wrong statement, for a Lay 4 or 10 it is $41 to win 20 at most casinos.
For Lay 5 or 9 how abouts $31 to win 20 or even the Lay 6 or 8 for $25 to win 20

I know El Cortez allows a $20 Lay 4 for 50cents vig
many casinos do not charge the vig up front on the 4 or 10 too

These type of bets are easy to win way more often than the math says, for a lifetime even
good enough for little me

Quote: petroglyph

Why do the dealers want you to lay 40 instead of 30? Is it because of the vig and you are cute?

exactly
thank you

Sally

Angels better do it tonight
no more hit a home run every time mentality
score some runs!

Quote: bahdbwoy

what about your lay probability sims to double up sally?

They are coming soon here

Baseball time too
and putting away the clean clothes too

Quote: bahdbwoy

do you get better results from a female dealer?

no, there are more craps dealers that are men so they can relate to the male superstitions of craps.

Quote: bahdbwoy

since girls are a better lay . ;/

I agree but my husband has a few gay friends, nice guys too, that say guys are a better lay

Sally

Quote: mustangsally

sometimes betting more on the odds starts to lower the chance of doubling a bankroll
can also lower the fun value of playing craps.

True.

Especially when the 4 and 10 lose.

I offered this suggestion because the OP was considering adding DC bets with his limited bankroll.

I believe a single DP bet with increased Odds is a better option.

I don't see how Lay bets could be a better choice, considering their high House Edge.

Lay 6 or 8 =4% HE
Lay 5 or 9 = 3.23% HE
Lay 4 or 10=2.44% HE

Quote: Tanko

I offered this suggestion because the OP was considering adding DC bets with his limited bankroll.

I believe a single DP bet with increased Odds is a better option.

and it has proven to be true

But public perception = (imo) one has a greater chance at winning
by making more smaller bets and increasing them as the winning continues
another myth for the busters

Quote: Tanko

I don't see how Lay bets could be a better choice, considering their high House Edge.
Lay 6 or 8 =4% HE Lay 5 or 9 = 3.23% HE Lay 4 or 10=2.44% HE

"I don't see how..."
and it should stay that way

I have made many Lay 4 bets with a HE of a very very very high 1.33%
(per win/lose or 1/300 per roll or 0.33%)
and still came out a winner

you show very standard type HEs
I gather you got that from WoO
The Wizard (HE) is a standard type of guy, imo
that is ok

Thank you
Sally

Quote: mustangsally

I have made many Lay 4 bets with a HE of a very very very high 1.33%
(per win/lose or 1/300 per roll or 0.33%)
and still came out a winner

you show very standard type HEs

I showed the accepted HE's.

I simply calculated: (Total Expected Win-Total Expected Loss)/Total amount Bet

Laying $40 with a $1 vig on the 4 or 10 would be 114-123/369= 2.44%

How do you come up with 1.33%

Quote: Tanko

I showed the accepted HE's.
I simply calculated: (Total Expected Win-Total Expected Loss)/Total amount Bet
Laying $40 with a $1 vig on the 4 or 10 would be 114-123/369= 2.44%

you showed simply the HE when vig is paid up front for a $40 Lay

How about when the Lay = $50? and the vig = $1

or the time I made a $60 Lay 4 and they only charged me $1 for the vig up front?

Ahh
now we see different values
the standards (what you call "the accepted HE's.")
1/41
1/31
1/25

I added
1/51
1/61

the way I do the math for vig paid up front
is the vig divided by the total you give to the dealer
1/51 is nice at
abouts 1.960784313725490196078431372549%

kind of like the colors of the rainbow. there are not just a few of them


How about when the vig is paid only on a win?
sweet, I say
This is common for Buy and Lay bets on the 4 and 10, just my observations

Quote: Tanko

How do you come up with 1.33%

The 1.33% comes from my Lay 4 for $50 to win $25
and they charge me $1 when I (eye) win my bet
They give me $75 for $1
1/75
(It works your way too)

sweet
Sally

Quote: mustangsally

you showed simply the HE when vig is paid up front for a $40 Lay

How about when the Lay = $50? and the vig = $1

or the time I made a $60 Lay 4 and they only charged me $1 for the vig up front?

Ahh
now we see different values
the standards (what you call "the accepted HE's.")
1/41
1/31
1/25

I added
1/51
1/61

the way I do the math for vig paid up front
is the vig divided by the total you give to the dealer
1/51 is nice at
abouts 1.960784313725490196078431372549%

kind of like the colors of the rainbow. there are not just a few of them


How about when the vig is paid only on a win?
sweet, I say
This is common for Buy and Lay bets on the 4 and 10, just my observations

The 1.33% comes from my Lay 4 for $50 to win $25
and they charge me $1 when I (eye) win my bet
They give me $75 for $1
1/75
(It works your way too)

sweet
Sally

@sweet Sally

Is there a significance to laying the established point [and requesting an early out by shooter] as opposed to say a sister number?

Is it just for fun or that, when hit or not it resets the play? Or so, dealers kids can have new shoes.

I have only sat in for a few hands of card craps lifetime. I played regular with a older guy [over 50 even] and he was angry with the crew that they wouldn't let him take down his passline bet as well as his dp bet, claiming they always let him do so in Cali. where he is from. He also said he always wins when he plays at home because he was able to memorize the deck. Does that sound likely? How many cards are there in a deck and do they pay any attention to deck penetration?

Maybe I am thinking of a different game entirely? I don't believe there were dice involved when I played my "few" hands?

I am wondering if it would be easier to lay that way [card craps] and how far a drive from here it is to a cali. casino.

I am watching HOU/DAL and they have phosphorescent sneakers on, are those good for glow in the dark dancing? Rock on.

I know no math involved here so not sexy, but but it is not a e=mc2 thread.

thanks cutie

Quote: petroglyph

Is there a significance to laying the established point [and requesting an early out by shooter] as opposed to say a sister number?

Is it just for fun or that, when hit or not it resets the play? Or so, dealers kids can have new shoes.

sure is, especially, imo, those male shooters that think (most all) that the skill of the shooter, and only the skill,

is what determines the success of winning any established point


I am at exactly 493 total Lay 4 and Lay 10 bets in my lifetime
(and tracking a craps game is useless, so says the vast majority of self-proclaimed craps male experts)

I should win, on average, 2/3 of them (329)
well here is the number of wins, not broken down by those who say they will win their point,
I have won exactly 377 of them

I let others calculate the probability of this
I know the answer, and find it easy to increase my winning percentages, not at all by plain old luck, imo

there are tells, imo

Quote: petroglyph

I have only sat in for a few hands of card craps lifetime. I played regular with a older guy [over 50 even] and he was angry with the crew that they wouldn't let him take down his passline bet as well as his dp bet, claiming they always let him do so in Cali. where he is from.

I am from CA and the 3 casinos I play at with card craps NEVER let a player remove their pass line bet when a point is established.

Quote: petroglyph

He also said he always wins when he plays at home

I agree, we all do win more when playing at home

Quote: petroglyph

because he was able to memorize the deck. Does that sound likely? How many cards are there in a deck and do they pay any attention to deck penetration?

The casinos I go to do not use a shoe or 2 shoes for the roll (some used to)

They use a CSM and that allows for changing probability roll windows

either 44 decks of 6 cards or 52 decks of 6 cards in the machine
(264 or 312 I have been told. maybe one day I will get there before the table opens up and watch the procedure unfold and see the actual number of cards used. I go by 312 cards)

Sally

Thanks Sally

Thanks for all the advice I really appreciate it. Had another 2 successful sessions and started playing the "right" way. Hit 4 points and won some guy a 5 dollar firebet. That turn as shooter lasted me 30 minutes.

Thanks sally for showing me the "right" way it truly paid off for me.

Things I have learned

1. Don't get married to playing "right" or "wrong". Mix it up a bit.
2. Don't play the sucker bets.
3. Tip the dealers when you win.
4. Get a players card.
5. Leave when you have hit how much money you have wanted to make.
6. Don't listen to the other people at the table as their advice is usually wrong.

I guess I am a gray side player now. A very light shade of gray.

Quote: DarkNewty

1. Don't get married to playing "right" or "wrong". Mix it up a bit.
2. Don't play the sucker bets.
3. Tip the dealers when you win.
4. Get a players card.
5. Leave when you have hit how much money you have wanted to make.
6. Don't listen to the other people at the table as their advice is usually wrong.

Good list. Do mix it up, but stick to one side per session. I am merely superstitious as to 'why that', but I do have to tell you it is very demoralizing to switch sides because you were losing, then find you should have stuck to what you were doing. That way madness lies.

Quote: DarkNewty

I guess I am a gray side player now. A very light shade of gray.

as long as you don't get to 50 ... oh wait, that could be a good thing, if you can get the action!