Tipping pressure makes me stop playing craps

Well well well. Tip solicitation is against social norms, so they either get stiffed or I avoid them, because solicitation is poor service. Either will make normal people feel like the bad guy, but it's the role you're bound to accept. It would mean I'm just tipping someone else, but skipping one event. I over tip anyways, so in a way them being an arse is them tipping me.

Here in Ohio, soliciting tips is illegal for us dealers. There are sly ways that people do it that are gray areas, but it's something I rarely see and would never do.

Typically on craps games, the best results for increasing tokes involves continuous praise and attention for those who do bet for the dealers.

Quote: Beethoven9th

I see that happen ALL the time. Craps dealers are the worst because there are 3 of them (plus the box) at the table, and these idiots get much more bold when they're in a group setting compared to when they're dealing alone at a BJ table.

Interesting I never thought about a pack mentality. I just thought craps dealers thought they were special. I know hardcore craps players often think they are superior to other gamblers. Ill never understand how being the best at a -EV game is special.

Ps. If you start talking craps to a 99% of females their eyes will gloss over while they look for an exit. There's always Sally.

Axelwolf



I dont think people that work hard at craps think they are superior, i think
that people that work realy hard at what ever they work hard at sometimes
have less patience with those that dont.

In terms of tipping, most players have never seen anything like what was going on
at the Riverside casino in Laughlin.

When new kids would come to the table with a few dollars and say i dont know
how to play, some of the dealers said dont worry, we will take care of you. Just place
a $5 chip on the pass line with a $1 lucky bet next to it. PLace the 6 & 8 for $6 with a
$1 lucky bet next to that. On and on and pretty soon all their money was gone.

On good rolls with higher wage betters they would pay you say if you had an $18 6 & 8
and one would hit, they would pay you $21 and say drop me a white chip and red
and in a very soft voice say then i will be up on that with you. Many times if there were
4 or 5 people on the end they would have more on the bet for them than any of the
players. If that number hit they would slide the bet and the winnings over and say drop
$54 for the crew and then start over.

When i caught on very quickly and said no, twice he forgot to pay me on my 6 or 8.
I called the casino manager and explained this to him, he said he knew he had a problem
but could not catch them.... i said you got cameras, you can see where the bets are placed.

Last year they fired 3 people i guess.

dicesetter

But sometimes dealers taking charge of a newbie player's action (for a price, of course) yields fantastic results.

I posted before about seeing this happen at a table at NYNY.

A new player, clueless about the game, asked the dealer for help, and the dealer told him exactly what to bet, and when.

Basically it was passline and nonstop come bets with max odds, always pressing to some degree.

It was a very long roll without any naturals on ensuing comeout rolls, so all the come bets stayed up, across the board, and the guy just raked it in.

For every bet he made for himself, the dealer had him set up a corresponding bet for the boys: as the player won more, so did the crew.

So yeah, I guess that once in awhile even a blind pig finds an acorn.

Quote: MrV

But sometimes dealers taking charge of a newbie player's action (for a price, of course) yields fantastic results.

I posted before about seeing this happen at a table at NYNY.

A new player, clueless about the game, asked the dealer for help, and the dealer told him exactly what to bet, and when.

Basically it was passline and nonstop come bets with max odds, always pressing to some degree.

It was a very long roll without any naturals on ensuing comeout rolls, so all the come bets stayed up, across the board, and the guy just raked it in.

For every bet he made for himself, the dealer had him set up a corresponding bet for the boys: as the player won more, so did the crew.

So yeah, I guess that once in awhile even a blind pig finds an acorn.

That would be me, finding acorns with the dealers' help...lol. They did hustle me on the any 7 and any craps for a few rolls once, but those were terrible so I quit them pretty quick.

Quote: beachbumbabs

That would be me, finding acorns with the dealers' help...lol. They did hustle me on the any 7 and any craps for a few rolls once, but those were terrible so I quit them pretty quick.

The dealer at NYNY didn't steer the player to any prop bets, only line bets with odds.

Obviously he was in it for the boys, not for the house.

The box had no problem with it.

I always tip craps dealers. The "tip" usually goes like this:

"Never stare directly at the sun."

Of course, I would never give those losers a monetary tip.

It worked out well for the guy I saw at NYNY.

He was clueless about how to play, and on one roll he made at least four grand, buying in for a few hundred.

The boys did well too, obviously, as the dealer was very generous with their bets, going to line bets plus odds on all the numbers.

Luck happens.

I play almost exclusively at the Horseshoe in Shreveport, LA. I love the craps dealers, and honestly, before I started my ridiculous tipping strategy outlined below, they treated me with respect, and we had a good time, win or lose. I know most of them by name now and I truly enjoy bantering with almost all of them.... maybe 3 or 4 out of the 25+ I interact with aren't pleasant. They never asked for tips, but I appreciate how they help the game run smoothly almost all the time. After logging maybe 300 hours of craps time, the "worst" stories I have about all dealers/stick men/box men are when someone is just having an off day and is slow/making mistakes in payouts.

About a year ago I started "tipping" $6 per hand and I have the dealers spread it across. I tell each one to drive how he/she wants, and some keep the $6 and just drop $1 per number that hits. Some like to press. The current record for most money I've seen them press up to on a single number was $90 (the $60 hit and they half pressed), and the most in total was $275 across.... it was a long-ass roll for sure! They dropped nearly $800 on that one hand, and it cost me $6. Sure, tons of rolls don't drop more than a buck or two, but it's fun, and I genuinely like these guys and girls, so I enjoy when they make a bunch of money.

So, I do this every hand, win or lose, and it clearly adds to my already -EV playing, but I have so much fun with it, and I've had dealers pull me aside away from the table and earnestly thank me, saying they can tell just by the tip jars if I am in town that week. I've not once seen them take advantage of a new player, or lose their cool at anyone (despite some of the lowest of the low-lifes around), or anything like that.

The dealers are my refuge from the idiocy of my fellow patrons... in minimal experience in vegas, I've never had a bad experience. This thread makes me feel like I should just stick to my local (100x odds) hangout :)

Quote: DicePhD

I play almost exclusively at the Horseshoe in Shreveport, LA. I love the craps dealers, and honestly, before I started my ridiculous tipping strategy outlined below, they treated me with respect, and we had a good time, win or lose. I know most of them by name now and I truly enjoy bantering with almost all of them.... maybe 3 or 4 out of the 25+ I interact with aren't pleasant. They never asked for tips, but I appreciate how they help the game run smoothly almost all the time. After logging maybe 300 hours of craps time, the "worst" stories I have about all dealers/stick men/box men are when someone is just having an off day and is slow/making mistakes in payouts.

About a year ago I started "tipping" $6 per hand and I have the dealers spread it across. I tell each one to drive how he/she wants, and some keep the $6 and just drop $1 per number that hits. Some like to press. The current record for most money I've seen them press up to on a single number was $90 (the $60 hit and they half pressed), and the most in total was $275 across.... it was a long-ass roll for sure! They dropped nearly $800 on that one hand, and it cost me $6. Sure, tons of rolls don't drop more than a buck or two, but it's fun, and I genuinely like these guys and girls, so I enjoy when they make a bunch of money.

So, I do this every hand, win or lose, and it clearly adds to my already -EV playing, but I have so much fun with it, and I've had dealers pull me aside away from the table and earnestly thank me, saying they can tell just by the tip jars if I am in town that week. I've not once seen them take advantage of a new player, or lose their cool at anyone (despite some of the lowest of the low-lifes around), or anything like that.

The dealers are my refuge from the idiocy of my fellow patrons... in minimal experience in vegas, I've never had a bad experience. This thread makes me feel like I should just stick to my local (100x odds) hangout :)

That's very good to hear, DicePhd, and very kind of you to tip in that way. It's good to hear about a all-around good, professional dice crew. Too rare in this business.

That's also awesome that they let you do dealer control on place bets. But they can't be bothered to drop $2 for a $1 place four or ten?

Quote: teddys

That's very good to hear, DicePhd, and very kind of you to tip in that way. It's good to hear about a all-around good, professional dice crew. Too rare in this business.

That's also awesome that they let you do dealer control on place bets. But they can't be bothered to drop $2 for a $1 place four or ten?

If/once I buy the 4/10 they are allowed the 2:1 on those numbers. Its fun for me to watch their different risk tolerances. Most press until they get $6 on the 6/8 and $3 on the 5/9. Ive also seen them get about $27 across and then a stick man will change and they come down on all but the original 6. Funny to see dealer superstitions. :)

Quote: DicePhD

If/once I buy the 4/10 they are allowed the 2:1 on those numbers. Its fun for me to watch their different risk tolerances. Most press until they get $6 on the 6/8 and $3 on the 5/9. Ive also seen them get about $27 across and then a stick man will change and they come down on all but the original 6. Funny to see dealer superstitions. :)

Stick change? Down. Seven coming for certain. The dealers should know that, they see it every time. :-)

Interesting responses. For me, it was simply a personal decision. I don't like confrontation even if it is subtle. So I choose to go with the electronic games where there is no subtlety!

Quote: Frogger

Interesting responses...I don't like confrontation even if it is subtle.

Same here.

And I'm certainly NOT going to complain to a pit boss about dealers. I like to count cards (in addition to playing craps), and the worst thing to do would be to needlessly bring any type of unwanted attention to myself.

But good for you. Electronic craps has lower minimums, so those idiot dealers actually did you a favor by getting you to play it. You'll lose a lot less over time. *thumbs up*

Quote: Frogger

The pressure from dealers to tip is so freaking annoying, it bothers the heck out of me. It is to the point where I've decide to stop playing on craps tables and prefer to play the electronic games instead. same odds, same chance of winning. No tipping pressure, much better game for me

The casinos make plenty of money so why do they pay their dealers minimum wage and put pressure on their customers to help pay the dealers wage.

A friend of mine told me that he saw famous basketball coach Rick Pitino at a MGM craps table recently with one of his horse owner buddies when a young random roller kid got on a long roll that lasted 3 stickperson changes. Afterwards, Pitino left the table without leaving a tip.

Maybe Rick Pitino wonders why should customers be responsible for making up the difference for the low wages that greedy corporations pay dealers ?! In Australia, craps dealers are paid an average of $28 per hour and tipping is illegal.

Maybe if the casinos were not so greedy here and adopt the Australian pay rules for dealers, we would not have the cheating scams between dealers and players that occur so often like at Wynn and Palms.

Quote: Paigowdan

I play frequently here in Vegas, and from the Cannery group, to Stations properties, to the M, I don't come across dealers who worry or badger people for tips, because it generally is NOT there. And if I did see it, I'd correct that dealer. Instead, I see polite dealers who act polite and do their jobs when treated with any human courtesy.

I see a lot of polite dealers on the strip (except at the Mirage: those dealers used to be knee-breakers for the mob, I'm sure, for all their charm). I hear a lot of toke-husting off-strip, but I think it's just a response to the players. When a dumb or novice player steps up, they're not thinking of tipping. I can see that the dealers need to be more "obvious" with that crowd. I don't mind hearing it because I understand where it's coming from.

But: I also tip while I'm playing, in part to prevent anyone from hassling me for tips. Maybe they recognize me, but do they remember that I tip "at the end of the trip" or whatever? God no, I seriously doubt that. Instead I tip a dollar on roughly every other shooter, which works out to about $8/hr. It takes about 10 minutes but dealers quickly know that I'm actually tipping. Then instead of them thinking "is this guy a George?", they pay attention to my bets, neither hassle nor hustle me, and are more polite. Sometimes they fix a bet or are attentive enough to book something that I normally bet and/or side with me in a did-I-bet-that dispute etc etc. Life is good when the soulless automatons are programmed to be nice!

IOW, I'm paying $8/hr for dealers to be nice to me. Totally worth it. Plus, I like to believe that it encourages the box to rate me better, too, and I don't care if it's true or not because that makes me happy. Damn bastards took hundreds of my dollars they better give me a buffet.

Quote: Archony

I hear a lot of toke-husting off-strip, but I think it's just a response to the players. When a dumb or novice player steps up, they're not thinking of tipping. I can see that the dealers need to be more "obvious" with that crowd. I don't mind hearing it because I understand where it's coming from.

My brother and I went to Golden Gate to play blackjack. We sit down at a double deck game and on the second hand (after losing the first) we won our $10 bets, and the dealer said something about paying us and something about how he liked his tokes. I was pretty pissed this dick would ask for tips after the 2nd hand we even played at the table, let alone after losing the first as well. So I think another problem is dealers are so uppity about tips that they solicit anyone who looks like a "newbie" perhaps. My brother and I are both younger looking, even though especially as a counter I have a tremendous amount of casino experience.

Quote: Archony

But: I also tip while I'm playing, in part to prevent anyone from hassling me for tips... ...It takes about 10 minutes but dealers quickly know that I'm actually tipping. Then instead of them thinking "is this guy a George?", they pay attention to my bets, neither hassle nor hustle me, and are more polite.

That is both pathetic and sad. So you have to show them you're tipping to get what should be normal service at a game that is their job?

As said before, even by the Wizard I believe, their job is to provide the game free of mistakes in a timely manner. The attitude and atmosphere the dealer brings to the game is what they get a tip for... not just standing there like a zombie slacking on your bets because you're not tipping them as much as they see fit. The moment a dealer hustles me for a toke, I know they will never get a single dollar from me. It's classless, rude, and supposedly frowned upon by the casino.

I have always gotten good service from dealers except at Caesars (one of the reasons I don't play/stay there anymore -- that and hosts insulting me twice because I won significant amounts and they didn't want me back which I just found incredibly stupid of them). Well, they have plenty of competition that acts professionally and I haven't gone back after getting the message from those fools.

I have never had a dealer hustle me for tips, nor ever seen it.

And I notice the flip side: I find it amazing how many people don't tip at the table when they win. Not to mention not tipping the cocktail waitresses! Or even thanking them in a lot of cases. If you can afford to gamble you can afford to tip properly.

I find etiquette very important and detest rudeness. I don't have a superstitious bone in my body, but I would never say "seven" at a craps table at the wrong time because I consider that rude behavior (even if irrational). I read recently on this forum how one poster claimed that he/she would ask a player, after the player established a point, if he would quickly seven out. That breach of table etiquette astonished me! Most of us play for the entertainment value and don't appreciate rudeness on our vacations.

If a dealer solicited tips from me I would wait until a stopping point and then immediately leave the table without tipping. I'd find that insulting, like if a food server told me that I should tip.

I also find tipping the dealers well worth it and it has made me quite a bit of money in the long run. When they know I tip they often (not always) go above and beyond. For example, correcting mistakes I have made in my betting that would have cost me (the good dealers recognize the betting patterns I use).

Caesars, on the other hand, can bite me. They have some of the nastiest and incompetent dealers I've ever seen (as well as some of the best; so strange!). Such a shame, as the property has cachet. But it looks to me as if the dealers actively feud with one another on the job or watch football on the TVs they can see in the bars and don't pay attention to the game. The last time I played there (a little over a year ago) I had a dealer act in a non-friendly manner to me and everyone else: he did his job precisely but not one iota more, what they call a "working strike" in Britain. So bad that regulars complained about him to his face. He would deliberately do irritating things too, such as tell me (and others) in an irritating tone of voice that I shouldn't bet the amount of odds I bet (it made the arithmetic hard for him I guess) and once, when I had accumulated way way too many green chips (which he should not have let happen), and made a bet with 8 greens to get rid of them in case the bet lost, when I happened to win he paid me -- with 8 more greens (he knew exactly what he did too). And I had tipped consistently throughout my trip, and even at that session before he treated me that way.

Quote: Romes

That is both pathetic and sad. So you have to show them you're tipping to get what should be normal service at a game that is their job?

Hi, welcome to America, we're glad you've decided to come visit.

At a restaurant, you've got about an hour to see how well your waitress does her job. You know she's only making $2.15 an hour (or whatever) so when the bill comes you can make an informed decision on how much you want to pay her. Was the poorly-cooked food her fault? Did she handle it well? Did she keep my glass refilled? Was she friendly? Did she at least do the basic job that is expected of her? It's easy to make this tipping decision.

At a valet, you can tip (when dropping the car off) to get expedited handling of your car. You're basically bribing the guy to give you better service than the next guy -- unlike the waitress, who (generally) is not stiffing someone else when she gives you better service.

Now we get to the card/dice/tile/ring-toss dealer. Booking my bets and making payoffs correctly is his job. But, like the waitress, it's nice if they're polite and pleasant but ... well it's a service job, if he's a dick but does the job correctly at least the job gets done. He gets paid a wage, low tho it might be, and shares tips, so I expect that if he wants tips then he'll be friendly. If he's calling out to others for tips but not being obnoxious about it, ok, I understand, lots of customers are rude, too. But if the dealers are being rude to everyone? I like to complain about the Mirage here but of course that's personal experience (on multiple occasions). My solution is that I don't go to places with dealers that are outright obnoxious -- or inattentive, or refuse to do their jobs.

If I tip them but they hustle for more -- well then I usually tip them an extra buck, walk away, and think: "that's to remind myself to never see you again."

So, yeah, I preemptively tip. Unlike the waitress, it only takes minutes for me to see benefit from it.

Quote: Concinnity

The last time I played [at Caesars] (a little over a year ago) I had a dealer act in a non-friendly manner to me and everyone else: he did his job precisely but not one iota more, what they call a "working strike" in Britain. So bad that regulars complained about him to his face. He would deliberately do irritating things too, such as tell me (and others) in an irritating tone of voice that I shouldn't bet the amount of odds I bet (it made the arithmetic hard for him I guess) and once, when I had accumulated way way too many green chips (which he should not have let happen), and made a bet with 8 greens to get rid of them in case the bet lost, when I happened to win he paid me -- with 8 more greens (he knew exactly what he did too). And I had tipped consistently throughout my trip, and even at that session before he treated me that way.

I wanna say "if I saw that, I'd stop tipping, and tell the crew that I'm not tipping so long as he's there." etc etc. But I probably wouldn't; I'd probably just walk away. I have told a box or two about bad dealers.

And I don't go back to The [redacted] because of bad dealers I've seen there. That'd probably be more useful to other gamblers (hence, to the universe at large; hence, a better option wrt delaying the inevitable heat-death of the universe) if I told the box about it when I left but that bridge is now crossed.

I dealt dice many years ago. For a few years I was shown how to earn tips by a few original Vegas boys. Never once did I hear that you made the player uncomfortable. The art of dealing is working for minimum wage, making the players feel like a million dollars and earning a tip if they felt the service was good enough. For me, I knew the persons name, their drink preference, if they smoked, what shop or hair dresser the wife or girlfriend wanted. If a tip was placed, boy oh boy did the wheels turn. I wanted to show by the freeby's available that this person was the one to treat. It should be a win win for all. If ever you feel uncomfortable, don't play, or start and tell the dealer you usually tip at the end. Either way, if you don't raise it, they shouldn't. But at the end of the day, if they treat you real nice, look after you, and you feel good about the service, that's when to step up. It works both ways :-) I love to play at the Crystal Bay Club in Lake Tahoe. The dice boys know how to treat you and so do the girls and guys at the restaurants and coffee shops. If you want a good game, lots of fun and the boys to treat you right.... Baby needs new shoes

Quote: Makemyday

I love to play at the Crystal Bay Club in Lake Tahoe. The dice boys know how to treat you and so do the girls and guys at the restaurants and coffee shops. If you want a good game, lots of fun and the boys to treat you right....
Baby needs new shoes

well, who does not like North Shore at Lake Tahoe
This Baby had me new shoes with me there


I was at Kings Beach during summer this year and saw the area.

I think we ate across the street at the Nugget

But I do remember Bonanza Casino in north Reno above the University

They all were really really nice there too
tip time
nothing but smiles
:) :D
:D :D :)
;) :D

Sally

If the crew is a annoying about tips, then tip by making a bet for the dealers 9n the Big 6 or something.

Where on earth are you guys playing that this happens? I've never noticed it anywhere. Vegas? Indian casinos? AC?

In any case, forget that nonsense. Ignore the dealer. Bet on the dice. Roll or pass when they come to you. If you have a good time, toss the crew a bone now and then. If not, don't.

A good crew should be nearly invisible.