Question pertaining to Casino Craps for Beginnersand come bets.

Hi guys,

I went to the casino again yesterday. I started at the craps table with $520 and left with $490. I believe I would of actually made some profits yesterday hadn't I had to leave. I had to get home to take my 11 year old to football practice. When my mom came over to get me to leave I was shooting by myself and on an amazing hot streak. The table had been really sketchy the whole time up till then but one other guy and myself was getting good rolls majority of the time even when it was sketchy. Therefore, I ended up having to walk away on probably the best hot streak I have ever had so far. I hit the hot roller a few times for getting 3 numbers. I kept track of my average rolls before 7'ing out and my average I believe was 23 rolls. That is if I didn't miss any rolls in my calculations lol. I am getting better at shooting. My favorite position is stick right. I hate throwing from one end to the other.

Yesterday I was playing a $5 min $2,000 max craps game. I was betting $5 on the PL and backing it with anywhere from $10 to $15 in odds. Then, after a point was established I would put my come bet of $5 up. If another number would come up I would put $10 in odds on it. I try to get two come bets up with odds unless I'm up I will go to three come bets up with $10 in odds. The pit boss told me if he was me he would put up place bets and use the winnings from the place bets towards odds. Is this really a good idea? I did do this a few times yesterday. However, I couldn't establish if it was a good or bad thing as the table was really cold the beginning until I started shooting solo. Is there anything I should change about using this betting strategy that could possibly help me increase potential profits or minimize potential losses?

When a table is cold and has been cold for a while should I consider betting the DP and DC? If so should I bet it the same way as I bet above on the PL and Come? Then, just pray they don't hit any of my numbers and 7 out? Is there any better ways to bet the DP line?

Since I am a low money player who normally goes to the casino with anywhere from $200 to $300 on average and buys in with anywhere from $40 to $100 each time what would be a good way for me to start out betting? Should I just put $5 on the PL and maybe $5 or $10 in odds until I get a couple wins and then use my betting strategy above?

My books will be here sometime today. I plan on spending the day reading them and practicing with the dice I purchased. I don't have the money to go out and buy a craps table for practicing. I honestly don't have anywhere to put it either even if I had the money. Is there anything I can use or build cheaply that would act similar to a craps table for practicing shooting?

Thanks again everyone,

Rocky

Well, Rocky, we are getting a lot of trip reports so that's nice, keep it up.

Probably most of us feel like what we had to say isn't sinking in, on the other hand you aren't cloistered in here and are being influenced by all kinds of folks, no doubt. In fact not everything you hear at this site is the gospel according to Michael [the Wizard] and you had best bear that in mind; there is a lot of nonsense being talked when it comes to Craps. Wizard's site for advice is Wizardofodds.com.

I'm telling you now, you are showing signs of 'wandering in a wilderness', walking right past the places you need to go.

Quote: grimreaper1014

my average I believe was 23 rolls

My gut feeling, not crunching the numbers: if you can do that 'on average' consistently you may wind up owning the casino.

Quote:

The pit boss told me if he was me he would put up place bets and use the winnings from the place bets towards odds. Is this really a good idea?

BTW the Pit Boss is not the same as the Boxman.

Just some dumb thing he came up with. He's probably thinking you should have more of the numbers covered in case they come up, seeing you miss payoffs. The HE on most of the place bets is too high though IMO. If you check out the site I mentioned, you will search in vain for the Wizard advising "be sure to have most or all of the numbers covered even if it means place bets".

Quote:

I don't have the money to go out and buy a craps table for practicing. I honestly don't have anywhere to put it either even if I had the money. Is there anything I can use or build cheaply that would act similar to a craps table for practicing shooting?

If you have a pool table or somesuch there are craps layouts you can buy that you put on the table.

Rocky,

If you want to practice at home you can get the craps rubber diamonds on amazon for around 35 bucks I think. Do a search. You can build a craps practice rig that some dice instructors advertise on their sites. Make sure that your practice rig sits at the right height as a casino table does. This will affect your shooting motion. Same goes for your release station.

Like you said if you feel the table is getting 'cold' you could switch to don't pass or just lay against a certain number.

You could also just take a break and walk around get some food or a drink. I know it's sometimes hard to justify leaving a table when you've come to the casino to play. But breaks can be good for your wallet and mental state. :)

Goodluck with the craps!

Quote: nickolay411

Like you said if you feel the table is getting 'cold'

that is not what he said at all

he placed 2 conditions

"When a table is cold
and
has been cold for a while

should I consider betting the DP and DC?"


I think he waited too long but I am not a craps expert

Quote: nickolay411

you could switch to don't pass

don't pass is a sucker bet in many opinions including me

Quote: nickolay411

or just lay against a certain number.

now you are talking the talk
thank you

easiest way to play +EV craps, if that matters to one that plays craps

women rule at craps
I am having that on a tee shirt and it should look great on me!
Sally

Quote: Ahigh

She's very carefully violating rules on forums where moderators don't do their jobs.

very carefully

Quote: Ahigh

Even if I had time to interact with Sally, I lost interest a while back.

you may have lost interest but you keep coming back to interact with me
I never thought I was that good

thank you again Ahigh!

btw, I did finish your simulations (yes all) for you and your code is sweet

I know you saw it

it was fun as you said it would be too ;)
Sally

Quote: grimreaper1014

Hi guys,

Yesterday I was playing a $5 min $2,000 max craps game. I was betting $5 on the PL and backing it with anywhere from $10 to $15 in odds. Then, after a point was established I would put my come bet of $5 up. If another number would come up I would put $10 in odds on it. I try to get two come bets up with odds unless I'm up I will go to three come bets up with $10 in odds. The pit boss told me if he was me he would put up place bets and use the winnings from the place bets towards odds. Is this really a good idea?
Since I am a low money player who normally goes to the casino with anywhere from $200 to $300 on average and buys in with anywhere from $40 to $100 each time what would be a good way for me to start out betting? Should I just put $5 on the PL and maybe $5 or $10 in odds until I get a couple wins and then use my betting strategy above? Rocky

Orlyn recommends 4X the base ($5) bet, or $20 as max. bet any one time. Others have said you should have 10X the min. bet, in this case, $500 for your bankroll, theorizing this should get you thru 10 7Outs, if such occurs. I don't know what they say re: how much at risk any one time. I suppose $50 max. (10% of BR) My BR is typically $200. My max. bet any one time varies between $25 & $28. Never more than $30. This gives you the ability to weather losses, waiting for a hot hand.

Orlyn's system is close to what you're doing & what the pit boss said. Orlyn recommends having only two numbers in play any one time: one PL, one Come, or one PL, one Place on the 6 or 8. I do hope you read Orlyn's book first. Orlyn's idea is that using the Come lets the dice choose the point (which the PL does, also), but sometimes a Place on the 6 or 8 is in order. At any rate, this system utilizes the lowest HA bets in craps.

I like to have three numbers in action: PL, 2 Come. 2x odds on PL & Come if 6 or 8, 1x odds on all other numbers. (Orlyn recommends no odds on other numbers.) If PL & Come are other numbers, then a $6 Place 6 or 8. Sometimes if 6 is PL w/ 2x & Come is 8 w/ 2x odds, I'll have $30 down, the absolute max. The 7 wipes out the 6/8 as effectively as any other number.

Orlyn has some other tactics, which I've found have saved my skin many times. I'll leave that for the book. Our betting styles, and money management in general, I think, bore most readers of this board. For good discussions on MM, go to www.crapsforum.com.
It has a section on money management from long-time players' standpoint.

Finally, I'd say, stay on the right side for a while, then start messing with DP, DC, dice-influencing, etc. Don't try everything at once. Get a base, a method you're satisfied with, then start playing around. It may take several weeks or months to settle on a method, depending on how often you get to a table.

Caveat: I lost $85 of my $200 BR in 15 min. using my above method. I saw how the table was going & colored up. Came back half hour later for a new session and came out better after an hour. At one of my sessions, a guy beside me, already there, put $220 across, lose it, put $440 across, lose that, buy in for another $1k & not too long after, left. Some people never learn.

It all gets down to what you want out of craps. You say you want to have fun. So do I and probably all others on this board. (Well, maybe not all. They want to make a killing.) It's fun when you win, not fun when you lose. You can moderate your joy and sorrow the way you're going. Read Orlyn's book first, cover to cover. Don't skip over what you think you already know. There are some tidbits in there along the way. Read it as if you know nothing re: craps.

Quote: grimreaper1014

I started at the craps table with $520 and left with $490. <snip> <snip>

Since I am a low money player who normally goes to the casino with anywhere from $200 to $300 on average and buys in with anywhere from $40 to $100 each time <snip>

this is confusing

what are you exactly?

I am almost a craps expert and I became that way by first
reading the help file in WinCraps
as Steen is a craps expert who created the free Windows program

then I played the game and all the different bets in WinCraps and got to know them all very well too

so, add WinCraps to your list
how can one go wrong with free?
you could be reading and playing craps right now

you have an 11 year old, spend quality time there too
I have an 11 year old too but he is not mine, he only likes my Skittles
Sally

Quote: Sonny44

Caveat: I lost $85 of my $200 BR in 15 min. using my above method.

Yes!!!
Thank you for sharing

but you should have just stayed and made a Lay bet or two.
yes, really
I win because of them

I just had to share that

learning and sharing = more fun
Sally

Quote: mustangsally

Quote: thecesspit

Quote: mustangsally

Quote: odiousgambit

Ha! there was a really dumb FEMALE craps player on TV last night. Touted as an expert too, because she won at poker [what?]. She was claiming you could be an advantage player in Craps just by making the right bets.

one can easily have an advantage over casino craps by just making the right bets at the right time, in other words, increasing your winning probability

this is so easy even an 11 year old understands this

you must be over 30

It is how I am +EV for all my Lay bets with vig paid up front

Surely you mean +AV for all your lay bets.

If the bet has happened, it's no longer expected.

yes +EV
I expect it

you being a male can never understand that my probability of winning a Lay 4 does not equal always 6/9
it is much higher

I was unaware that genitalia made mathematics or logic different. I am sure there are ways you can make the expected value for a Lay 4 to be higher. I am also sure none of them rely on my chromosomes to understand.

Quote: odiousgambit

The question becomes, exactly which man will take the bait?

Cesspit? Ahigh? Odi? Someone new?

Me it seems.

Quote: mustangsally

Yes!!!
Thank you for sharing

but you should have just stayed and made a Lay bet or two.
yes, really
I win because of them
Sally

Even after 60 sessions, Sally, I'm not there yet. Just me. I still feel you can't out think the dice. But, I will agree w/ you that grimreaper should play the Wizard's online game to test out his methods, and also Steen's WinCraps is "god's" gift to craps players. His help sections are worth the price of the program, which is minimal, strangely.

Quote: thecesspit

I was unaware that genitalia made mathematics or logic different.

being at least 3 types of humans by that I do not believe you that you was unaware

Quote: thecesspit

I am sure there are ways you can make the expected value for a Lay 4 to be higher.

yes, but let us not share these secrets

Quote: thecesspit

I am also sure none of them rely on my chromosomes to understand.

<hint> testosterone </hint>

Sally

Quote: Sonny44

and also Steen's WinCraps is "god's" gift to craps players.
His help sections are worth the price of the program, which is minimal, strangely.

I agree

and being the programs he has are free to have and play with
I wonder what Steen really gets out of this
"WinCraps is shareware, download a free trial version now!"

that warm feeling deep down inside maybe
that is good

Thank you Steen

Sally

Quote: thecesspit

Quote: odiousgambit

The question becomes, exactly which man will take the bait?

Cesspit? Ahigh? Odi? Someone new?

Me it seems.

Bwahahaha

Someone had to do it

Quote: mustangsally

this is confusing

what are you exactly?

I am almost a craps expert and I became that way by first
reading the help file in WinCraps
as Steen is a craps expert who created the free Windows program

then I played the game and all the different bets in WinCraps and got to know them all very well too

so, add WinCraps to your list
how can one go wrong with free?
you could be reading and playing craps right now

you have an 11 year old, spend quality time there too
I have an 11 year old too but he is not mine, he only likes my Skittles
Sally

...it's not your time or way of confusion, lie ride Sally, lie ride.

I'm sure you're as gorgeous we all imagine you to be, BUT, please answer this simple question: Why do you always communicate so esoterically? I feel like buying Rosetta Stone Yoda in order to understand a portion of your posts. Please respond incoherently.

Quote: petroglyph

Quote: thecesspit

Quote: odiousgambit

The question becomes, exactly which man will take the bait?

Cesspit? Ahigh? Odi? Someone new?

Me it seems.

Bwahahaha

Someone had to do it

Man, wtf is on the other end of that line?

Quote: MaxSwelle

Quote: petroglyph

Quote: thecesspit

Quote: odiousgambit

The question becomes, exactly which man will take the bait?

Cesspit? Ahigh? Odi? Someone new?

Me it seems.

Bwahahaha

Someone had to do it

Man, wtf is on the other end of that line?

I thought it was a Canadian $20. I was duped.

Quote: MaxSwelle

Why do you always communicate so esoterically?
I feel like buying Rosetta Stone Yoda in order to understand a portion of your posts. Please respond incoherently.

I learned my method in school from the first person I really kissed (yes she was a girl) and I loved it

I could never give up on something I love

I have no pets
so do not ask about them

Sally

Rocky,
I gamble in the East, so my experience may be different from what you can do in Vegas.
1. My recommendation is to buy in with your entire bankroll; it affects your rating. Then put a white chip after some of the greens; so if you lose, you know when you have reached your (un)comfortable point.
2. All the tables in my area are $10 min (or more). My experience is that it takes a $500 buy-in to have a long session, and to survive short runs of adverse dice. No one survives long runs of adverse dice, except by leaving, or betting the other way. I don't bet the other way myself (yet), but I have seen many players prosper doing that.
3. I am essentially a Come bet player. I also sometimes Place a bet on numbers that seem to be coming up frequently. Since I have a $10 Come bet in the middle, when the place number comes up, the dealer should say, "How many odds?" You decide how much of the original Place bet with the winnings should be the odds on the Come bet. This is called "Down with Odds". This can be very effective when numbers are repeating.
4. BTW the center Come bet wins on a Seven Out. When there are several Point-Sevens, that winning Come bet can be critical to extending the session.
5. To me there is nothing better than a long roll where I'm winning on almost every roll. I really like "Off and On" (that is where the number repeats from an existing Come bet). But that approach has a lot of variation.

It seems to me that this thread doesn't refer enough to the desire to have fun for a few hours; not hit and run, or conversely to gamble until bust. Craps is a social game. After a while you'll see the same players, and you can strike up an acquaintanceship. The goal is to have fun, and realistically lose slowly over a year. Craps is an up and down game. Bet smart: take your winnings, and limit your losses. The house will win in the end. It's the cost of a good time.

My epiphany: When Resorts opened in Atlantic City 30 years ago, I went there to admire the expensive furnishings, and to gamble. Resorts let me in FREE into their 250 million dollar building- and they didn't do it because they expected me to leave with more than what I came in with.

Also, a gentleman (or gentlewoman, Sally) takes winning and losing with a smile. And if you can't smile when you've lost your stake, you shouldn't be there.

Don't forget to tip.

FWIW.

Quote: mustangsally

I learned my method in school from the first person I really kissed (yes she was a girl) and I loved it

I could never give up on something I love

I have no pets
so do not ask about them

Sally

Dude/Girl, you're awesome! You do make smile, I was just curious about your writing style. Plus, you always keep Ahigh on his handsome toes. Where the hell is that sim afterall??

Quote: mustangsally

this is confusing

what are you exactly?

I am almost a craps expert and I became that way by first
reading the help file in WinCraps
as Steen is a craps expert who created the free Windows program

then I played the game and all the different bets in WinCraps and got to know them all very well too

so, add WinCraps to your list
how can one go wrong with free?
you could be reading and playing craps right now

you have an 11 year old, spend quality time there too
I have an 11 year old too but he is not mine, he only likes my Skittles
Sally

I'm replying from my phone so bare with me. Sally I normally don't do that much because I don't want to lose that much. It was a dumb mistake on my part. I realize that now and at the time it was just foolish.

WinCraps is free? I thought it cost money? I am looking for a good program I can run from my PC. All I have really can across so far is flash craps which I find odd at times. I even downloaded some craps games on my phone which are lame and do dumb things. I need something good!

Your right about spending time with the kiddies. I try to spend as much time with him as I can. There was a point last month for the whole month I was at the casino more than I was home. I went on a bj binge after a break up. However, that is not normal for me. I normally go to the casino while my son is in school for a few hours twice a week three times at the very most normally. There are some weeks I don't go at all. My 11 year old likes to my skittles too lol

Sally can you speak more on laying odds when the table is cold? Do I need a PL or DL bet in order to lay odds? So I'm just betting that a certain number will not be rolled? I take it the 4 or the 10 would be a good number to lay odds on? Since they are the hardest to roll? Out of the two I would say the 4 would be the hardest since a lot of people use the hard way set?

Sonny - thanks for the advice bro. I just got the books and everything yesterday. I am forcing myself to not go to the casino till I read it all lol. It seams that the style of play I mentioned earlier that is similar to what you use has been working for me more times than not. A lot of my problem is staying on the table and not walking away to take breaks at all. Hell I don't even like to go pee lol. I will post any questions I have after reading. Hopefully you or someone else who has read the book can respond.

Quote: grimreaper1014

bare with me

huh?



problem here, your sex is not identified in your profile ... [sorry, I couldnt resist]

Quote:

WinCraps is free? I thought it cost money?

There is a free version and a well-worth-it inexpensive version.

Quote:

Sally can you speak more on laying odds when the table is cold?

oh, she won't tell us, she has a way of doing it that switches the edge to her favor. Hope she doesnt get caught! She's bold after her roulette chip stunts, 3 times and didn't get caught! see link [beware, Rocky, I think she is trying to lead males astray! only a felony]

https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/general/19484-discovery-channel-sep-10-wed-nite-3-new-ganbling-shows/6/#post395573

I was saying bare with me because I was replying from my phone. I'm not good at typing on it yet lol. I have WinCraps free installed now. Just trying to get the hang of it now. My local casino has 10x odds. To set WinCraps up for 10x odds would I just go into config and change all the odds to 10x or is there only certain ones I should change?

>change all the odds to 10x or is there only certain ones I should change?

I'm not sure what all you can do with the free version, but I assume you can set the odds as you please, and certainly you would change them all.

10x odds is not for the small bankroll

Exception: making only a few bets and then leaving, win or lose. Who does that?

Quote: mustangsally

this is confusing

what are you exactly? <snip>

Quote: grimreaper1014

<snip>...It was a dumb mistake on my part. I realize that now and at the time it was just foolish. I went on a bj binge after a break up. However, that is not normal for me. <sniip>

Sally, take it to DT will'ya.

Quote: MaxSwelle

Quote: grimreaper1014

<snip>...It was a dumb mistake on my part. I realize that now and at the time it was just foolish. I went on a bj binge after a break up. However, that is not normal for me. <sniip>

Sally, take it to DT will'ya.

Let's not, there are sufficient incomprehensible posts over there as it is :)

Quote: chickenman

Quote: MaxSwelle

Quote: grimreaper1014

<snip>...It was a dumb mistake on my part. I realize that now and at the time it was just foolish. I went on a bj binge after a break up. However, that is not normal for me. <sniip>

Sally, take it to DT will'ya.

Let's not, there are sufficient incomprehensible posts over there as it is :)

True indeed, Senior Pollo. Do you think the the binge was selfish or selfless? There are givers and there are takers in this world...

Quote: MaxSwelle

Quote: chickenman

Quote: MaxSwelle

Quote: grimreaper1014

<snip>...It was a dumb mistake on my part. I realize that now and at the time it was just foolish. I went on a bj binge after a break up. However, that is not normal for me. <sniip>

Sally, take it to DT will'ya.

Let's not, there are sufficient incomprehensible posts over there as it is :)

True indeed, Senior Pollo. Do you think the the binge was selfish or selfless? There are givers and there are takers in this world...

Haha, good one. But le poulet homme won't take the bait. He learned long ago not to piss against the wind.

Quote: chickenman

Quote: MaxSwelle

Quote: chickenman

Quote: MaxSwelle

Quote: grimreaper1014

<snip>...It was a dumb mistake on my part. I realize that now and at the time it was just foolish. I went on a bj binge after a break up. However, that is not normal for me. <sniip>

Sally, take it to DT will'ya.

Let's not, there are sufficient incomprehensible posts over there as it is :)

True indeed, Senior Pollo. Do you think the the binge was selfish or selfless? There are givers and there are takers in this world...

Haha, good one. But le poulet homme won't take the bait. He learned long ago not to piss against the wind.

Smart bird, man.

If 10x odds is not for the small bankroll would I be better off driving an hour and a half to two hours away instead of one hour away to play 3x odds?

Quote: grimreaper1014

If 10x odds is not for the small bankroll would I be better off driving an hour and a half to two hours away instead of one hour away to play 3x odds?

WinCraps is this
http://www.cloudcitysoftware.com/
WinCraps is shareware, download a free trial version now!

You can not run high speed simulations
and every now and then a window pops up with a tip that you have to close to keep playing

===============================
10x odds is the max you can take on the pass/come bets if the table limit sign says 10X for the odds

you can take up to it, so 3x is allowed.
$10 with $30 odds
===============================

as to the Lay bet
it is a bet that can be made any time that a 7 (any 7) will roll before that number
on regular Craps that would be 6 possible numbers to Lay against {4,5,6,8,9,10}
===============================

as to a cold, a warm, a hot table, a table with a temperature
those do not exist, never have existed and never will exist
(just saying these things about craps shows how ignorant one is about the game of craps)

what you say may be a cold table is a hot table to me

so then how can a table be cold to one person and hot to another person
at the same time?

answer
it can not
===============================

6 point Fire Bet coming tonight at Rincon
be there
Sally

Rocky, here's a link to the Wizard's online game: https://wizardofodds.com/play/craps/v2/ You may already know this. If you only want to test your chosen mode of betting, Wizard's game is good. Just write down the results after what you consider a session, and start a new session. I'd say play at least 10 sessions, using the same betting method. Many say 10 isn't enough. If you want to test more, WinCraps is your choice.

The reason I bought the Classic WinCraps is because I wanted to compare strategies, using the same dice rolls for each one. WinCraps is the only program I know of that allows you to do this. The free WinCraps is just to give you a sample of the full program; I don't think it provides the full range of features that the Classic does. The Classic download is only $10, probably the best bargain you'll find, anywhere. As I said, the Help section is a textbook on craps, itself.

I'd say that along with Orlyn, Nistri, and Steen (developer of WinCraps), you'd have a good, basic, inexpensive foundation to approach a table, altho Nistri's costs about $30 in looseleaf. Steen lucidly explains a lot of math that you read on this forum, if you enjoy that aspect of craps.

Quote: grimreaper1014

If 10x odds is not for the small bankroll would I be better off driving an hour and a half to two hours away instead of one hour away to play 3x odds?

10x is the maximum allowed odds, you can take anything under that. Some casinos won't allow fractional odds (between 0 and 1x) and some won't allow you to do less than table minimum, but other than that you can take any odds up to 10x. So you can still take 3x without having to drive any extra distance.

Thanks for the replies everyone. Gonna grab something to eat and get back to the No-Nonsense Craps book. I do have one thing I don't understand. How days laying more odds improve your chances of winning? This really doesn't make any sense to me. From what I have read I can't remember where the more adds you take the less the house advantage is thus the better chance of you winning. I don't understand how that changes anything except that you are taking a bigger risk for a potentially bigger payoff. Please correct me if I'm wrong. I'm just trying to understand here guys and gals. Sorry for my ignorance to the game. You have to realize I am starting from the ground up. I have only played this game like 3 times in my whole life and just started about a week ago. I am trying to absorb as much information as I can and if anything you guys say doesn't absorb now it will later as I go back and reread everything you guys say from time to time as I learn more and more so I can understand more of what you guys have said.

Quote: grimreaper1014

Thanks for the replies everyone. Gonna grab something to eat and get back to the No-Nonsense Craps book. I do have one thing I don't understand. How days laying more odds improve your chances of winning? This really doesn't make any sense to me.

taking the odds on the pass/come or laying the odds on the dpass/dcome never changes the probability of winning the bet.

example
$1200 odds bet on a pass line with a point of 6 has a winning probability of exactly 5/11
that is equal exactly to the winning probability of just placing the 6 at 5/11

difference is the odds pay more on a win
yea!

what it does change is gives one the chance to make a bet where the casino pays you exactly the winnings for what the true odds are, in other words
they do not rip you off with a short pay when you win or rip you off by taking too much when you lose.

The payout structure is all math based on simple probability math
===========================================

but being that you should only be playing craps for fun
make only one bet at a time with NO odds to maximize playing time and just have fun watching the game

if you want to have fun by doubling your bankroll, just bet everything (your whole bankroll on the very first bet)
on the don't pass
win, lose or draw

or you can flip a coin to see what to make between the dpass and the pass

you can NOT have it both ways
long playing time AND doubling a bankroll

if it happens = more fun
do not ever plan on it
Sally

Thanks for your response Sally. You put it perfectly. I understand exactly what ya mean there =) Thanks again!

Quote: grimreaper1014

From what I have read I can't remember where the more adds you take the less the house advantage is thus the better chance of you winning. I don't understand how that changes anything except that you are taking a bigger risk for a potentially bigger payoff.

You are absolutely right in this. As Sally said, the probabilities of the numbers showing are not changed by taking more odds. Taking more odds just exposes you to more loss. I still can't understand players wanting to play at tables that offer 10x, 100x, odds. Orlyn puts it out in graphic form in Chapter 1. What you see is what you get. That underlies everything about craps, regardless of all the betting strategies you read about.

It really gets down to money management: How can you preserve your bankroll, hopefully winning more than losing? Orlyn gets to that, later. Be patient. Yes, if you have a huge BR, you can go w/ 10x, 100x odds. But, not many of us have that kind of BR. To some extent, the odds bet is a sucker's bet. Yeah, it reduces HA, but HA goes out the window with your money when the 7 shows.

Nistri and Steen also write about money management. HA focuses on your wins; nothing is said about your losses. You also need to establish a loss limit and a win goal, things discussed on Craps Forum. You may not be happy with a win goal of $50 on a $200 BR, but knowing when to walk away is as important as all the rest. When you hit your loss limit, there's no choice; but, when you hit your win goal, it is your choice. Others have discussed this, and you'll run across this in further study. Be on the lookout for it.

Finally, your experience will be your best teacher. Many talk about finding your "comfort zone." Betting the way you want and managing your money the way you want are involved in finding what you are comfortable doing. Only you will know this, but it will take time, experience, and study.

Quote: Sonny44

To some extent, the odds bet is a sucker's bet. Yeah, it reduces HA,

no.
you are telling a LIE as your opinion

the odds bet is just another bet that has nothing to do with the pass line (line) bet

$10 pass line bet on the cor
roll: 6
point is 6

you say odds bet is a sucker bet., but all are quick to place money on the 8.

the place8 and the pass odds 6 have exactly the same chances of winning.
place 8 for $30 pays $35
pass odds for $30 pays $36
do that 1 million times over your life and you just threw away $1 million dollars!

now who is the sucker?

Quote: Sonny44

but HA goes out the window with your money when the 7 shows.

another opinion that is 100% untrue
in my opinion an absolute LIE

the moment you make your odds bet, the House edge stays the same at 0%

if you lose, you lost exactly what you were expected to lose on that one bet and not 1 cent more

if you win you are paid exactly what was expected to win on that one bet and not a cent less

the casino did not short your pay or take toooooo much on a loss


you do not even understand house edge on one bet

"how in the hell" can you even understand the house edge over many many bets???

Sally

Quote: Sonny44

It really gets down to money management:

nice opinion
I disagree 100%

it is all about "why" you play the game of craps at that moment in time




OP says at one casino to maximize playing time and minimize the chance of a bankroll ruin
easy: make just one bet at a time and no odds
maybe you can think of a better way, I be all for it

OP says he would like to double his bankroll.
bet everything you have on one bet
win = more fun
lose = was fun

======================================
my opinion money management only works well with your reason of playing that one session in time

and play the longest AND double a starting bankroll is unrealistic and a fool's game
never plan on it

remember you only play one session (lifetime)
but can pause it many many times
until you die

Sally

Well, Sally, tell me this: When the 7 shows, who loses the most money? The guy with 1x odds on his bet or the guy with 10x or 100x on his bet?

Quote: Sonny44

Well, Sally, tell me this:
When the 7 shows, who loses the most money?
The guy with 1x odds on his bet or the guy with 10x or 100x on his bet?

first,
when the point hits, who wins the most money?
Huh??
winning at craps = more fun
================================

to answer your question Sally style,

each of their odds bet
lost exactly
what they were supposed to lose
and not 1 cent more
=================================

you still have a lot to learn about this simple game of craps I see, just my opinion, start with what is house edge on one bet

=================================
one needs to learn about the house edge over one bet
it is the foundation to building your Craps house.

but I do understand the vast majority of craps players have no foundation to build their house on

that is gambling

Sally

Op, as a new player try this... Doey/Don't. Or just Dark Side. How many times have you seen already, a player rolls 6 numbers and 7s out? You now have 100s one the numbers and bye bye due to the 7. Here is how I play. Yes, I play for adult expensive entertainment. I know the is a -EV game and im making some bets that have a high house edge. But the variance (In probability theory and statistics, variance measures how far a set of numbers is spread out. A variance of zero indicates that all the values are identical. Variance is always non-negative: a small variance indicates that the data points tend to be very close to the mean (expected value) and hence to each other, while a high variance indicates that the data points are very spread out around the mean and from each other)has been in my favor more times than not. 800 on the Dark side and 500 on the right side. If the point is 4,10,5 or 9 put full odds. Or for me between 1400 and 4800 depending. Play every other hand and cover the come out roll with a 2 way 7 (maybe a 4/3 5/2 only) and the 12 for 20 or so to help with a come out loss.... Sit back and watch the money come in. I'm sure this will have many negative opinions but love opening a can of worms. I realize your bankroll will be different than mine so use whatever numbers you are comfortable with.. Remember the dice don't have eyes or ears. The dice don't know if a 12 came up one in 36 times or three in a row. There is no such thing as a cold or hot table. (I do look for a cold table Lol) No such thing as a system or dice control. I also don't care about 1m rolls. In the short run (three years) I have won. You will also acquire a massive amount of comps. Way more than you can ever lose depending again.. Now let the Onslaught begin...

Quote: mds

Op, as a new player try this...

your method below has been talked about before in a different thread

Quote: mds

Doey/Don't. Or just Dark Side. <snip> <snip>

how about just one don't come bet

Quote: mds

I realize your bankroll will be different than mine

Maybe I should give OP my $600,000 bankroll to play with.
no pressure

That way he could lose, and hopefully not all of my money, and not feel bad
and if he wins just pocket the profit and give me back my $600,000.

maybe I can make more money doing this somehow

as every craps player plays scared to lose their own money

any takers?
Sally

Quote: mds

Op, as a new player try this...
your method below has been talked about before in a different thread



Quote: mds

how about just one don't come bet

Odds and 2 & 3? And comps?



Quote: mds

I realize your bankroll will be different than mine
Maybe I should give OP my $600,000 bankroll to play with.
no pressure


It is all relative.



maybe I can make more money doing this somehow.


Doubt it.

well, Rocky, I can't tell if you paid any attention to what I have said ... don't blame you, a lot of folks are throwing a lot of things at you. And that's just here at this site.

And who is Odiousgambit anyway? He's not the Wizard.

I just ask: reflect on it now, and see if I have imparted any wisdom.

items:

*not all of this advice is Wizard approved. [I judge not much of it]. You do know who the Wizard is?

*picture a guy wandering in the wilderness. That resonate yet?

*let me repeat that. A Guy Wandering in the Wilderness. Sound like you?

*it really is true that the guy is wandering past those places that he needs to go.

Quote: odiousgambit

well, Rocky, I can't tell if you paid any attention to what I have said ... don't blame you, a lot of folks are throwing a lot of things at you. And that's just here at this site. <snip> <snip>

every one has an opinion, sometimes opinions

I say start by reading thru WinCraps Classic Help file

the Intro and Understanding Craps sections are a good road map, especially for beginners.
Play the game as you read and the bets really make sense quickly.

I still disagree with some of Steens comments in the Discipline and Goals - Managing your Bankroll
section
but that can wait for other days

build the foundation first then the house
not the other way
another male thing, in my opinion

Sally

Quote: mustangsally

another male thing, in my opinion

OK, I'll bite!

What to make of Sally's advice in this thread, Rocky. [I can't attack the person, only the advice]

You have complimented her. I hope she has indeed helped!

Know that her math is always very good.

She makes very strange statements otherwise. Like, there is some way to get an edge in Craps only women can do. Well! We can imagine! But our imagination in that regard would not limit itself to Craps. So.

She cloaks all this in great mystery. Everything profound and mysterious. One apparent allusion to cheating [another thread]. So we can say do not follow all her advice, ixnay at least on the cheating!

Read what Sally has to say and glean what you can. But know it is like Oriental Mysticism, many things are alluded to, but the plain mundane answer is too plebeian to actually come out and say.

I say it again, Wizards over Mysticism any day. 'Off to see the Wizard', Rocky, is the way out of the wilderness.

Quote: thecesspit

Quote: MaxSwelle

Quote: petroglyph

Quote: thecesspit

Quote: odiousgambit

The question becomes, exactly which man will take the bait?

Cesspit? Ahigh? Odi? Someone new?

Me it seems.

Bwahahaha

Someone had to do it

Man, wtf is on the other end of that line?

I thought it was a Canadian $20. I was duped.

I think he's asking about the other, other end?

Quote: odiousgambit

OK, I'll bite!
Know that her math is always very good.

thank you
and my math PLUS Ahigh's math is always very entertaining too, in my opinions
(pms not counted)

Quote: odiousgambit

She makes very strange statements otherwise.
Like, there is some way to get an edge in Craps only women can do. Well!
We can imagine! But our imagination in that regard would not limit itself to Craps. So.

did you give birth to a baby?

Quote: odiousgambit

<snip> <snip>I say it again, Wizards over Mysticism any day. 'Off to see the Wizard', Rocky, is the way out of the wilderness.

that is the best you can do? you need to be more specific

Think Dorothy in the Wizard of Oz

Sally

Quote: mustangsally

that is the best you can do? you need to be more specific

at this point, either Rocky gets it or Rocky doesnt get it.