Craps Dealer tells me to leave the table because I play the dont pass.
Holy crap. He's lucky I actually DID have to leave. I jumped into a poker tournament with my buddy. but if I didnt. oh man I would've went off on his ass. Can they actually do that? Can't he get fired for saying shit like that? lol. I was speechless he had the balls to say that to me. lol
Quote: SluistroIt just blew my mind when he said this to me. Anybody else have that? Im sitting on the rail and not betting because dude is on a small hot streak. He asks why im not betting I told him, all nice and quiet "I play the dont pass." (and when I do play, Im all quiet in my area and quietly take my winnings etc when the 7's come out) and after that he got all super mean and tells me to leave. "Pick up your money and please leave"
Holy crap. He's lucky I actually DID have to leave. I jumped into a poker tournament with my buddy. but if I didnt. oh man I would've went off on his ass. Can they actually do that? Can't he get fired for saying shit like that? lol. I was speechless he had the balls to say that to me. lol
If you got his name you should report him (in person or via email) to the Table Games Manager. That is ridiculous.
ZCore13
Quote: SluistroCan they actually do that? Can't he get fired for saying shit like that? lol. I was speechless he had the balls to say that to me. lol
Yes, dealers can get fired for telling players not to play the casino's games. That's pretty much the ultimate fireable offense.
The most that is likely to be said is that "If you want to be rated/comped you must be an "active player". And even that is usually by a floorman not a dealer.Quote: sodawaterYes, dealers can get fired for telling players not to play the casino's games. That's pretty much the ultimate fireable offense.
I assume this was a fairly slack table with no floor person in sight.
Quote: befamous7Go back to the next table you see him at and do the same thing. See what happens. If he does something similar, call over a pit boss. I'd be pissed. I would probably troll the guy as much as I possibly could without doing anything to get me kicked out of the casino. I'd get more satisfaction making his job miserable with me there than seeing him get fired.
Haha, This is what I will probably do lol. He's name is Lou from the Borgata in Atlantic City. If anybody lives around here lol
Quote: SluistroHaha, This is what I will probably do lol. He's name is Lou from the Borgata in Atlantic City. If anybody lives around here lol
One idea I've conjured up is to only play with $1 chips. Assuming $10 mins, bet anywhere from 11-14 and make it a different amount each point.
Quote: befamous7One idea I've conjured up is to only play with $1 chips. Assuming $10 mins, bet anywhere from 11-14 and make it a different amount each point.
Good luck with that one.....he'll likely trade your whites for reds. When you ask him for more whites, he'll just say "no you have plenty of whites". People have tried doing that shit to me before. And figuring out what $11-14 pays isn't that difficult. If you wanna fuck with him, ask for a $168 eight, $222 six, etc. and a $135 horn hi 12 or $72 3-way-craps.
Quote: SluistroIt just blew my mind when he said this to me. Anybody else have that? Im sitting on the rail and not betting because dude is on a small hot streak. He asks why im not betting I told him, all nice and quiet "I play the dont pass." (and when I do play, Im all quiet in my area and quietly take my winnings etc when the 7's come out) and after that he got all super mean and tells me to leave. "Pick up your money and please leave"
Holy crap. He's lucky I actually DID have to leave. I jumped into a poker tournament with my buddy. but if I didnt. oh man I would've went off on his ass. Can they actually do that? Can't he get fired for saying shit like that? lol. I was speechless he had the balls to say that to me. lol
He was probably from Phoenix!
Quote: FleaStiffIf others are waiting for railspace he might speak to you but this Be Right or Be Gone business is not permitted no matter how much he loves the tips and camaraderie of the Right Side.
OP did not confirm whether the table was full, or if people were waiting to play. I get quite perturbed when my wife and I want to play, but someone is holding chips in their hand, waiting for the dice to come back to them, or only playing a field bet every tenth roll.
Quote: DweenQuote: FleaStiffIf others are waiting for railspace he might speak to you but this Be Right or Be Gone business is not permitted no matter how much he loves the tips and camaraderie of the Right Side.
OP did not confirm whether the table was full, or if people were waiting to play. I get quite perturbed when my wife and I want to play, but someone is holding chips in their hand, waiting for the dice to come back to them, or only playing a field bet every tenth roll.
That is when speaking to a floorman is wise, they will see you get space at a table if you really want it or make adjustments to their crew schedule if they feel they can.
When a floorman spoke to me because I had stopped betting (to calculate whether one roll was correctly settled or not) the table was not particularly full. That was the same casino that flat out told me they would not help me with directions to a different casino. Now this was in Biloxi and was long ago, but that sort of sweat the money attitude was enough for me to never go back to that casino.
Love it, never had a problem.
Once a dealer was joking with me, said I couldn't celebrate a win.
Once at the Freemont, said out loud "Yessssss" when a shooter was trying to hit his point and rolled a 7. It was morning, didn't get any flack and hardly any looks.
I generally try not to celebrate when playing dark side craps.
I have never told and/or even suggested a player leave a table for ANY reason, so long as they have chips in front of them. I have asked people that are merely spectators to step away to allow players willing to gamble to kindly make room. Typically, I ask the person, in a nice tone, "Sir/mam, will you be getting in?" If they say no, I respond, "Could you let the "player" behind you in? Works like a charm.
I continued to do this (I won every time) and continued tipping all of my winnings.
I had $10 and $10 and set a point at nine, then I put $12 odds and laid $15 (a net of $2 in odds).
The box then comes up and begins to tell me, "we don't allow you to bet.." I actually cut him off and said "I can bet any way I want to."
He then said, "no we won't let you bet that way when there's a full table especially." He had sort of changed his tune (a little bit) when I cut him off. I rolled the winner on the next roll and told him, "I'll leave if you want me to leave just tell me you want me to leave."
He then changed gears and said, "there's nobody else at the table and you can stay."
I then said, "here's the thing. I play for fun and I was having fun until you started telling me how I am not allowed to bet the way that I want to bet. I'm not having fun at all any more and I don't want to be here."
He stopped talking and sort of started pacing behind the table.
I then asked the dealers as I placed $10 on the pass and $10 on the don't pass. I said, "pop quiz, what's the difference in the expected hold percentage on this money if I bet this way versus all $20 on the pass line."
The stick man said, "it's the same."
I then said, "it's only SLIGHTLY different. But most casinos will rate you for a zero average bet because they think that if you have no volatility that they aren't making any money on you."
I went on to say, "I think those people who run things that way are retarded. If I want to give up my chance to win, and I'm using my money, that's something that I should be allowed to do. The casino is still making money off me, and anyone who doesn't realize that doesn't understand how the game works."
I then went on to say, "I know you guys give out free coupons and don't allow hedging on the coupons and I can even understand that. There's no names on the coupons and it's an easy way for someone to just turn the coupons into cash."
At this point, I had bought in for $100 and I had about $115.
I then took out $1,500 in cash and put it on the felt.
The box man then asks, "your name was Glenn wasn't it." I said, "I don't know!" He said, "can I get your card so you can get rated?"
I replied, "I don't even know if I'm going to bet yet." The stick man pushed the dice out to me and I told him, "I'm not going to do anything until I get my drink."
They counted out $1,500 as the cocktail waitress brought me a Red Bull. The stick man was pushing the dice out to me, and I threw in another $3 (the win from the $2 odds on the nine) and said "dealer hand in no bet." I took $100+ in red, $500 in green and $1,000 in black to the cashier.
Here's the thing: nobody can tell you how to bet YOUR MONEY. They simply CANNOT. They can tell you to leave for any reason without even giving you a reason. They can ADVISE you how to bet. But they CANNOT disallow a betting strategy, particularly one that is already in action before they notice it.
Many people in these pits just don't know what they are doing.
TRUTH!
They also have four tables there. Three of them pay double on the 12 in the field, and one of them pays triple.
<sarcasm>They really got their stuff together over there</sarcasm>
The game was stopped, when I told the boxman that I never heard of anything like this one, and call the pit boss over. When I explained what happened the dealer was removed from the table and I apologize to! Their excuse was the dealer was having a bad day. I wanted to know what they thought my day was going like after and his reaction to me trying to make a place bet on the point that he refused to make.
One more casino that I never went back to, when that dealer was removed from the table, and the whole table was clapping, evidently this one dealer made everybody's life miserable when he was dealing to them! It happened in Laughlin, where we were at for Corvette show!
I know a lot of hard working dealers, that I highly respect for the great job that they are doing, but all it takes is one bad dealer to ruin anybody's day!
The above case was one that I thought I would never encounter and it escalated to the point of no return when the dealer started to scream at me that there was noway that he was going to book my bet! Maybe he was pushed over the edge by poor management, that wasn't my problem, it's pretty bad when management can push someone to to the level. Most of the dealers in different location take on a air that they are the best there is. When the truth of the matter is they don't know what they are doing, and some of them make break-in dealers look good, again a case of bad management, most of the dealers that I've ran into in Laughlin, seem to have came out of the same mold, they spend way to much time talking about everything under the sun with the other dealers, and don't know what is happening on the table.
What ever happened to customer service, now some of you may wonder why I would want to have my bet booked as a place bet, and I have a very simple explanation for that. I always want to help the shooter out, by not having chips on the passline, where they are throwing their dice to!
Quote: MaxSwelleDude, why?
Simple. You can't tell me what I can and cannot do with my money.
I reciprocated by demonstrating to him that he can count all of my money and watch me walk away as I tell them I'm walking instead of playing because of the way I was treated.
I did absolutely nothing wrong.
I tipped a total of about $20 before being barked at -- which was about 50% of my winnings.
The other people who were gambling, I didn't see a single toke. That's why I actually went in to gamble for the dealers (not for me).
People are not always all that smart and I like to exercise my freedom in scenarios where they are not acting that smart. That's all.
The dealers were begging me to stay as I walked away, too. It was the box who made the mistake of telling me how I was not allowed to bet (supposedly, by the way. I think it was BULL!)
Quote: AhighSimple. You can't tell me what I can and cannot do with my money.
Sure they can. They can have any house rule they want. Some places let you play both player and banker, some don't. Some let you doey-don't, some don't. If I was the pit boss, I would have immediately asked you to leave after you talked to the box man like that.
Quote: AhighSimple. You can't tell me what I can and cannot do with my money. (INDEED, YOU ARE CORRECT SIR.)
The other people who were gambling, I didn't see a single toke. That's why I actually went in to gamble for the dealers (not for me). (UMM, NOT BUYING IT. HOPEFULLY MY OPINION IS WRONG THOUGH BECAUSE THAT IS BEYOND MAGNANIMOUS AND THE DEALERS SHOULD BE GRATEFUL TO YOU FOR SUCH GENEROSITY.)
People are not always all that smart and I like to exercise my freedom in scenarios where they are not acting that smart. That's all. (TRUE AGAIN, BUT IT COMES OFF AS SAFELY SELF SERVING; LIKE YOU'RE "CRAPS MAN", FIGHTING THE EVILS OF WRONG PAYOUTS FOR RIGHT BETTORS.)
The dealers were begging me to stay as I walked away, too. It was the box who made the mistake of telling me how I was not allowed to bet (supposedly, by the way. I think it was BULL!) (AGREED, IT SOUNDS LIKE BULL TO ME ALSO. BUT, DO YOU AT ALL CONSIDER YOUR APPROACH AS SLIGHTLY CONFRONTATIONAL. TO REPHRASE; CAN YOU UNDERSTAND HOW OTHERS MAY PERCEIVE YOUR ACTIONS AS CONFRONTATIONAL?)
*btw, my use of caps does not denote yelling-I promise.
Quote: AhighSimple. You can't tell me what I can and cannot do with my money.
I reciprocated by demonstrating to him that he can count all of my money and watch me walk away as I tell them I'm walking instead of playing because of the way I was treated.
I did absolutely nothing wrong.
I tipped a total of about $20 before being barked at -- which was about 50% of my winnings.
The other people who were gambling, I didn't see a single toke. That's why I actually went in to gamble for the dealers (not for me).
People are not always all that smart and I like to exercise my freedom in scenarios where they are not acting that smart. That's all.
The dealers were begging me to stay as I walked away, too. It was the box who made the mistake of telling me how I was not allowed to bet (supposedly, by the way. I think it was BULL!)
The amount someone is playing or the amount someone is toking makes no difference to me. If you give my dealers a hard time (or other customers) you don't get to play anymore and you are asked to leave. Nobody in their work place deserves to be subject to harassment or un-needed stress. Normal dealing is normal work stress and is expected. People looking for ways to cause trouble or stress to others get to go spend their money somewhere else.
ZCore13
Quote: Zcore13The amount someone is playing or the amount someone is toking makes no difference to me. If you give my dealers a hard time (or other customers) you don't get to play anymore and you are asked to leave. Nobody in their work place deserves to be subject to harassment or un-needed stress. Normal dealing is normal work stress and is expected. People looking for ways to cause trouble or stress to others get to go spend their money somewhere else.
ZCore13
It's about customer service. How do you define giving a dealer a hard time? How do you define giving a player a hard time? Ahigh can play any way he wants. If he is not cheating, he does not need to be bothered by the floor/dealer/pit boss etc. BTW, he did not give a dealer any harassment, only spoke up for his rights. "People looking for ways to cause trouble", is a bias statement. You don't think casino employees cause trouble, only people, i.e. players? Ahigh was playing craps by the house rules, why was there a need for some jackass to come around and give him grief.
This kind of attitude was fine when there were only few casinos and you had no choices where to play. It is not that way anymore. Look at AC and see how many casinos are closing.
Quote: AceCrAAckersIt's about customer service. How do you define giving a dealer a hard time?
Cutting off a boxman and backtalking to him qualifies.
Quote:Ahigh was playing craps by the house rules, why was there a need for some jackass to come around and give him grief.
No he wasn't. That's why the boxman came over to address the issue. Probably the only reason he backed down was because he knew he was fighting a losing battle in trying to argue with Ahigh. I'm disappointed in the boxman for not standing his ground.
Quote:This kind of attitude was fine when there were only few casinos and you had no choices where to play. It is not that way anymore. Look at AC and see how many casinos are closing.
He's free to take his business anywhere he likes. The grief that Ahigh causes incessantly is not worth any amount of money he can put down.
Bottom line: you wanna play? Play by the rules. End of story.
Quote: DeucekiesCutting off a boxman and backtalking to him qualifies.
No he wasn't. That's why the boxman came over to address the issue. Probably the only reason he backed down was because he knew he was fighting a losing battle in trying to argue with Ahigh. I'm disappointed in the boxman for not standing his ground.
He's free to take his business anywhere he likes. The grief that Ahigh causes incessantly is not worth any amount of money he can put down.
Bottom line: you wanna play? Play by the rules. End of story.
First of all, I didn't want to gamble for myself. I was gambling for the dealers. So technically, the ONLY thing I was doing at the time was a favor for the dealers who were not being tipped.
Secondly, the boxman who made the comment had just walked up and had NO IDEA WHAT I WAS DOING. He didn't see that I just won $1 and tipped the dollar I won to the dealers before moving on to $10 pass $10 don't, $12 odds and $15 lays odds. He thought I was betting $2 for myself instead of for the dealers.
Thirdly, the boxman in this instance incorrectly assessed me as a low-limit player and as someone who did not have the funds to risk at the table. I know when I'm being treated like someone who is not welcome at the table based on the level of action I am providing. I have the highest card rating at the Palms and just because he hasn't seen me gamble at higher levels there personally doesn't mean anything at all. He demonstrated he didn't know me by getting my name wrong.
Lastly, I did not create a scene. The boxman started this dialog up. It is also my right to object to the house rules if I feel like doing so. It is their right to tell me not to come back. I invited him to ask me to leave, and I would absolutely respect a proper trespass for objecting to such an inane house rule as you can't bet to win a dollar, two, or three for the dealers only while playing at an empty table.
He didn't start by telling me what I was doing was not a problem but could be. He started by telling me I could not play that way. This thread has a context, and this post is entirely about the context of the thread. The way that I acted is the way that I encourage other players to act on an empty table. I didn't make a scene to ANY other customers, and there was nobody involved in any of this besides the two dealers, the stick man, and the box man.
I absolutely made the point that the way that they run the table is ridiculous. And it is in my opinion.
These same dealers often complain about how business isn't the same, yet they are not connecting the dots between these sorts of policies and why people aren't coming around there like they used to.
Quote: AhighFirst of all, I didn't want to gamble for myself. I was gambling for the dealers. So technically, the ONLY thing I was doing at the time was a favor for the dealers who were not being tipped.
That's admirable, but besides the point. Tipping does earn you respect, but not the right to break the rules.
Quote:Secondly, the boxman who made the comment had just walked up and had NO IDEA WHAT I WAS DOING. He didn't see that I just won $1 and tipped the dollar I won to the dealers before moving on to $10 pass $10 don't, $12 odds and $15 lays odds. He thought I was betting $2 for myself instead of for the dealers.
Again, house rules. If the house has a rule against playing both the Do and the Don't (which it sounds like it does), it doesn't matter whose money it is or where it's going. An illegal bet is an illegal bet. Furthermore, if you said calmly to the boxman "I'm playing this for the crew" instead of "I can do whatever I want", you probably would have had better luck. As it is, the boxman backed off, and you still continued to grandstand.
Quote:Thirdly, the boxman in this instance incorrectly assessed me as a low-limit player and as someone who did not have the funds to risk at the table. I know when I'm being treated like someone who is not welcome at the table based on the level of action I am providing. I have the highest card rating at the Palms and just because he hasn't seen me gamble at higher levels there personally doesn't mean anything at all. He demonstrated he didn't know me by getting my name wrong.
White noise. "Do you have any idea who I am?" doesn't wash.
Quote:Lastly, I did not create a scene. The boxman started this dialog up. It is also my right to object to the house rules if I feel like doing so. It is their right to tell me not to come back. I invited him to ask me to leave, and I would absolutely respect a proper trespass for objecting to such an inane house rule as you can't bet to win a dollar, two, or three for the dealers only while playing at an empty table.
Let's go over the timeline one more time.
1) Boxman says "You can't bet like that."
2) You say "Yes I can"
3) Boxman says "Well, if it was full, you couldn't"
4) You offer to leave.
5) Boxman says "No, you can stay."
6) You complain about how you were just treated.
7) Boxman drops the subject.
8) You give a speech to the dealers, asking them to evaluate your play.
9) You grandstand against the house rules and management, using the "R" word, and belittle the intelligence of those in charge.
10) You buy $1500 in chips, and take them from the table without placing another bet.
I'd say you created a scene.
Quote:He didn't start by telling me what I was doing was not a problem but could be. He started by telling me I could not play that way. This thread has a context, and this post is entirely about the context of the thread. The way that I acted is the way that I encourage other players to act on an empty table.
God help anyone who does, because I assure you, you would have been kicked out of a majority of casinos for the scene you made.
I've said my piece. I'm sure you'll come back with more rhetoric that justifies your actions in your own mind. That's fine. Just don't expect most people to jump on your bandwagon.
Quote: thecesspitAbsolutely well put, Deucekies.
+1
Quote: DeucekiesI'd say you created a scene.
I won't argue with you if I created a scene, but any scene I created was solely limited to the dealers who were receiving tokes from me and were not wanting me to leave as long as I was toking them.
If I want to make a scene that I don't have to sit here and toke the dealers on an empty ____ table and take this abuse about how it WOULD be if ANYBODY else were here, I can. And I ABSOLUTELY INVITE THEM TO 86 ME! I really think they are as much a victim of the stupidity of management as I was. If I want to voice my opinion about the ridiculousness of not wanting to take my money without my having any chance to win, I can ABSOLUTELY DO THAT UP UNTIL THE POINT THEY PREVENT ME FROM CONTINUING TO GIVE THEM MY MONEY.
Where exactly is the part where I am doing something wrong by saying "YOU DON'T WANT MY MONEY? FINE!!!"
I suppose though that such casinos have a point, in the sense that do and don't bets reduce the player's variance tremendously. And given that most bettors play until they hit or approach a "zero point" in their session bank, the house is less likely to "zero out", if you will, the player's bank if he plays offsetting pass/don't bets.
Easiest thing to do is if you have a free bet or match bet ticket, and want to grab the positive vig for yourself, have an anonymous friend make the offsetting bet reasonably far away from you on the layout (e.g. $25 dol chip plus $25 dol match bet ticket on the pass line for you, anonymous friend making $35 dol don't bet on same roll).
Quote: radioraheemMany years ago, I remember that the Sands AC would not allow me to bet do and don't on the come out. The fact that that bet carries twice the vig as a pass or don't pass was beyond the dealer's comprehension, or at least interest. Recently, Borgata dealers complained about me doing do and don't including match play coupon, and AC Golden Nugget supervisor explained that it simply wasn't allowed. In terms of EV, obviously a bad decision for the casino in the sense that all bets on pass/don't carry a house edge.
I suppose though that such casinos have a point, in the sense that do and don't bets reduce the player's variance tremendously. And given that most bettors play until they hit or approach a "zero point" in their session bank, the house is less likely to "zero out", if you will, the player's bank if he plays offsetting pass/don't bets.
Easiest thing to do is if you have a free bet or match bet ticket, and want to grab the positive vig for yourself, have an anonymous friend make the offsetting bet reasonably far away from you on the layout (e.g. $25 dol chip plus $25 dol match bet ticket on the pass line for you, anonymous friend making $35 dol don't bet on same roll).
Here in Vegas, it's two casinos:
#1) Venetian / Palazzo
#2) Palms
Nobody else barks about coupon hedging. NOBODY!
Now, most casinos rate do+don't as zero average bet. They do this incorrectly out of pure stupidity in my opinion. They won't change.
MGM properties, I have heard, rates properly in this case.
The Silverton rates pass line plus double odds as three units rather than one. But pass line plus don't pass line as zero. (!!!)
Something that could lead to something known as a "pricing error" in the world of casino gambling if known widely enough and exploited.
There is no exploit to betting the do and the don't at the same time with no coupon that I know of (unless you count free drinks). Most of these places will give you a drink as long as you have chips on the rail.
Pass line bettor with don't bettor partner making offsetting bets (plus odds) is one of the oldest AP techniques around, in terms of building up comp points, though it is questionable whether this is worth the time and effort , and the loss of come-out 12's.
Unless it's AHIGH and we don't like him. Just that simple.
Quote: BuzzardTHE CUSTOMER IS ALWAYS RIGHT...
Unless it's AHIGH and we don't like him. Just that simple.
He thought my name was "Hugh" or something. I didn't take it personally at all. I just felt like relaying what I thought about their stupid rules is all.
I would think I have played far more coupons then you, even on craps. In my experience they DO care and have barked about it often. Granted I have not tried hedging like that for a long time.Quote: Ahigh
Nobody else barks about coupon hedging. NOBODY!
Quote: radioraheemdo and don't bets reduce the player's variance tremendously
in negative expectation, this favors the House.
Quote: radioraheemif you have a free bet or match bet ticket
now it's no longer negative expectation.
Quote: radioraheemgiven that most bettors play until they hit or approach a "zero point" in their session bank, the house is less likely to "zero out"
the thing is, the Craps Tables would all require large minimum bets if players only played Pass or Don't Pass. I think if I owned the Casino I would want to know if the typical Doey-Don't Guy never made Middle Table bets. In that case I might listen to someone wanting to ban it. Otherwise, why worry about it? Even when coupons are played, it's just about variance, in the meantime more action is always good for the House [edit]
Sluistro: bad dealer, needs to be reprimanded (unless the table is full and box needs to free up a spot for someone who might be waiting). Talk to pit next time that happens.
Ahigh: the $1 tokes you give the crew are not worth it to hear a speech about the odds and what is a better bet. They could care less. You work for a software development company (in gaming) and I assume make close to 100K. if your manager decided to give you a $3 bonus to hear him talk down to you about how code should be written (when you know how it should be written), I am thinking you would be pissed off too. It's your money. It's their casino. Personnel doesn't have to take that crap from players.
Quote: RSSo you broke the house rules, got reprimanded, and now you're mad. These types of threads are funny to read.
I don't think I was reprimanded. It's their job to entertain me, and they failed, and I let them know about it. Screw what they think about how I bet! It's a frequent thing that I will let a dealer know that if I need advice for how to bet I will ask them. Dealer advice on how to bet is generally pretty terrible. So are comments like yours on internet forums. This thread is about dealers telling you how to bet, not about house rules. If this were only about house rules, maybe we could talk about your perspective on how my method of betting violated house rules. In my opinion, I don't think it violated any house rules. I think the box man was just being a horrible employee completely out of touch with what was going on at the time (my tipping instead of playing for myself).
I have an idea, RS. Maybe you're the same way. Ignorant that this is a thread about betting the way that you want and ignoring ignorant dealers or boxes at the table. There's a sort of a parallel here in that you think this is about house rules and obeying house rules. It's not. You can bet HOWEVER YOU WANT within the minimum and maximum bet limits. That includes do and don't at the same time at every casino that I know of. I don't even accept that the Palms disallows this when it's your money and not a coupon. I think this guy was wrong because I have heard the rules about do and don't at the same time there, and it's all about the coupons.
You and people like you take a tiny sample of a situation and think to yourself that you know more than you do.
You want to take a $25 wager with me whether I violated house rules at the Palms when no coupon is involved?
Quote: boymimboAhigh: the $1 tokes you give the crew are not worth it to hear a speech about the odds and what is a better bet. They could care less. You work for a software development company (in gaming) and I assume make close to 100K. if your manager decided to give you a $3 bonus to hear him talk down to you about how code should be written (when you know how it should be written), I am thinking you would be pissed off too. It's your money. It's their casino. Personnel doesn't have to take that crap from players.
I tipped then more than the sum total of all tips while I was there for over an hour (about $20). I only won about twice as much as I tipped.
I watched people with twenty times as much action stiff these guys and the dealers were TOTALLY HAPPY to be getting toked.
So let me make two points: Number one, is that $1 here and $1 there add up. When you add money up it becomes worth something. How much money that I make, that am worth, how much money that I am betting, and how much money you THINK that I could be tipping are all COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT.
And if I want to stand there and give someone an earful about how horribly they are running their table, I WILL DO IT. And please 86 me if you don't like it. I'll complain about being 86'd as I get escorted out the door too.
I think that's my right to complain and make their life miserable in return for what they assumed that they could do (tell me some bull that's possibly not even true about how I can bet) without hearing any feedback from me.
Sure I'm risking being persona non-gratis in that casino in any casino I choose to do that. But the point of the entire thread is about dealing with bull that dealers tell you.
You need to know what you're talking about to argue with these guys. There is no doubt. But going back to the point of the thread, when you are betting your own money you can bet HOWEVER YOU WANT within the rules of the minimum and maximum limits. Any dealer who thinks otherwise is generally wrong. Those wrong people can get an earful from me if they want to tell me stuff that's wrong. And I couldn't care less what you think about how much I make and how that should affect my decision about how much I toke or how much I complain.
It's completely irrelevant.
Someone might even make the argument that I couldn't care one single bit about your comments because of how much money I make. They would be wrong too. I care about the details of what is right and what is wrong to create the best and most entertaining gambling experience possible because I am a passionate gambler who cares about the entertainment value of gambling. It has nothing at all to do with money and everything to do with pride and genuine passion and interest in the game. Something that not everybody has when it comes to this game.
The Palms and The Venetian / Palazzo are getting it wrong more than any other craps pits that I know of. And you better believe I will give them an earful about how they are getting it wrong, ESPECIALLY as long as they are ignoring me. I couldn't care less if they don't want to hear what I have to say. I will do what I want and let them deal with me instead of dealing with running a decent game. That's totally fine with me!
The first one of these two casinos that 86's me for complaining about their stupid policies, I will happily never visit their casino again. Until then, they can expect to hear me vocalize my complaints to the staff (not in front of other patrons mind you) to make the point that (even the coupon) policy of not hedging is absolutely ridiculous. But when it comes to my money, I have yet to be told it's a valid house rule. I offered a $25 bet to see if it's true, and if that bet is accepted, we will find out if it's a house rule or not. I doubt it's a rule at all.
Quote: AxelWolfI would think I have played far more coupons then you, even on craps. In my experience they DO care and have barked about it often. Granted I have not tried hedging like that for a long time.
There is one other place that won't allow this, but technically it's not a free bet coupon, it's a free bet chip. They are typically $25 denomination and up. That place is the Stratosphere.
But I would be surprised if you could come up with another craps pit that disallows hedging coupons. I therefore challenge you to come up with and have me verify what you suggest that it's more prevalent than I suggest.
Here's the places that allow it that I know of and can easily verify by asking (there's a remote chance one of these places changed their policy, but I've done it multiple times at each property and I always ask before doing it the first time as I did recently at The M).
Gold Coast
Sam's Town
Silverton
Red Rock
Palace Station
Green Valley Ranch
Texas Station
Fiesta Rancho
Fiesta Henderson
The M
Not every craps pit gives out coupons (I don't think the Wynn does, and I don't think any MGM properties do either). So that further limits the discussion to the craps pits that allow and have free bet coupons on the felt.
Quote: AhighI care about the details of what is right and what is wrong to create the best and most entertaining gambling experience possible because I am a passionate gambler who cares about the entertainment value of gambling. It has nothing at all to do with money and everything to do with pride and genuine passion and interest in the game. Something that not everybody has when it comes to this game.
I also play for the entertainment value of the game, but my notion of "entertainment" seems to differ substantially from yours.
You seem to be a bored with the "normal" casino experience, and for your own entertainment hope to "push the envelope" a bit til something gives; you seek action with the crew and the suits, not with the dice.
That's not how the game is meant to be played.
The box could see you were aching for an argument; he backed down, which was gracious of him.
But you continued to pull the thread on the sweater until it unraveled, leaving you looking silly with a bunch of wool in your hands as you stormed away from the table.
In life, it is better to make a friend than an enemy.
Quote: MrVBut you continued to pull the thread on the sweater until it unraveled, leaving you looking silly with a bunch of wool in your hands as you stormed away from the table.
The truth is I was done gambling and I had already won. I didn't mind the excuse to leave. I threw in $3 more before I departed just to let the dealers know it had nothing to do with them.
But I wasn't upset about being pushed away as I was doing nothing but toking.
