Would you be considered this a monster roll?

Most of the tables at the casino here at $15 tables. Occasionally if I see a $10 table I like to play numbers instead of the passline and odds. I know the book says you will do better if you stick to one bet which is a passline bet and max odds but it's more fun to play numbers and go $54 across

Anyways the table sucked but there was this one guy that made 7 points giving him a 4 point fire (Couldn't make the 6 or 10) but anyways several times during this roll he would roll a number and then come right back with the point. This happened over and over again. So he made 7 points and he hit two 8's (the first time it hit I collected, 2nd time it hit I went to $24), and he also hit one six, and he might have hit one other number, but that was it. Just mostly points.

Would you consider this a monster roll? After he finished rolling the dealer said "Great roll shooter", yet I don't even think I made money on this roll betting $54 across. To me a monster roll is one where most of the players on the table get all of their numbers get pressed up to several times the original amount.

I'm trying to figure out how you get $51 across by picking numbers: At a $10 table it would be $64 across.

I wouldn't call it a monster roll, but it was a great roll as the odds of making 7 points is is 0.182%.

Sorry meant to say $54 across

Not a monster roll.

Not a monster roll.
IMO, a monster roll would be a roll of at least an hour, although a shooter who hits a 6 point fire, or a shooter who hits the ALL bet twice in a roll, would certainly be on their way to a more than great roll.

I almost always play PL and odds, and Place/Buy across. If people are throwing lots of numbers, but no one is making a point, then I will sometimes just go with the Across action alone. But this is a classic reason why having a PL and odds bet is important. 7 points, if you are taking full odds, means you should be up a good amount after that roll.

So you don't place the point or one of the 4 and 10s.

HA = (10/30*7/6+8/30*7/5+6/30*9/5-6/30*6)*30/36 of about 1.080% per roll or on a $64 across bet, about 69 cents. After an about an hour, considering that the bet is only active on come out rolls, you're looking at about 90 rolls or about $62/hour loss.

I'd stay away from the 4 and 10 unless you can buy it and avoid paying commission until the win.

I prefer to play where the Buy is on the win. If I am playing with that, then I almost always will Buy the 4 and 10 for $25, even if the other bets start at $10 or $12.

If nobody is making a point, and I am not playing the PL, then I will not Place the point. I am not playing the PL because no one can make a point, so I'm not going to play the far worse Place bet on the point.
This is usually my last gasp at playing Right Side. If this doesn't work, then my next step is Dark Side, again, because no one can make a point.

It's worth pointing out that the table was so cold prior to this roll that everybody left the table and it was completely empty, and a couple of new people walked up (including the shooter that had this roll). I was even playing the numbers and the don't pass for a while at this table because almost every roll somebody would roll a couple of numbers and then 7 out. Unless you got there right around the time this guy made 7 points, you would have been losing your ass playing the passline with odds on this table and if you got there an hour before this roll you probably would have lost all your money and not been able to last long enough for this shooter.

The only reason I had chips to begin with was because I had been playing the don't at this table with a $35 flat bet and 2x odds for much of the time I was there

If he was hitting points immediately I wouldn't call it a monster roll. In my opinion a monster roll, like others have stated, means you roll for a long time. The PL with max odds players must have been licking their chops though.

By the way, props on playing across. Maybe I'll try this one day to mix things up.

I just don't get the fascination with monster rolls.

The biggest pay I got in the last few days was $300 don't pass with $450 lay odds on a don't pass when the point was eight. And even that was expensive with so much on the don't pass, but I was thinking "come on aces" on the comeout roll.

Most of my monster rolls I win like $12.

When I won on the "no 8" I didn't ask, "what's the chances of not making an eight?"

I was just all like, "YAY!"

Shooter walked off all pissed off that he lost $3 on the pass line (his only bet).

I think a lot of it has to do with how the availability of a game affects the way a person plays.

You have your choice of 3 dozen games, 24x7. This means you can play for a $12 win, or, if the mood strikes you, you can make a $500 bet and see what happens.

The majority of the rest of us have to travel to get to a game. Therefore, when I get there, I hope to play for quite a while. $12 win and done is not going to resolve my craps jonesing. Thus a monster roll is the holy grail for me. A monster roll, and good money management afterward, pretty much guarantees me I can go home a winner.

A bold play, like a $500 Buy 4 that hits, can also achieve a nice win, but if that goes wrong, then the amount of craps time I will get could be greatly diminished. That is why I usually only try bold plays when I am up. Not because I 'am on house money', but because I now have enough money in this session to afford the loss, and not cut into my craps playing time.

You could try an experiment, and see if your approach to the game changes. Limit yourself to playing craps for one weekend only in a month. Once you leave Sunday night, you can't go back until the next month. I bet your approach to the game changes.

I'm not sure about that. I think the fascination has more to do with storytelling and dealer persuasion.

I watch tourists get sold terrible bets way too often to think the dealers aren't playing a part in getting people to bet more on odds hoping they will get bucked off the bull or win enough to start toking.

Either toks or terrible bets are the single most common derailing I see most players take.

The story of the "long roll" as the preferred method to win is as much of a superstition as die down same dice requested.

When you stay on the rails the dealers/house want you to stay on, you're more likely to be persuaded into whatever the they want you to do next.

Bet with knowledge, win with bold courage, and leave with a tip proportional to the dealer's service, not your own good fortune.

Interesting question: What constitutes a monster roll ? Anything over an hour? 7+ points ? 20 or more numbers on the place/come bet? Or just pure amount of money made ?

Time, I think , is subjective as a measurement. If the shooter is tossing alot of "center bets" numbers, the game can slow to an absolute crawl. Too many horn high X, 2 way hard 10, ect. Takes time to resolve these and set up new or returns on a loser. You can get pretty slow.
Number of passes could be. I know I have had a roll where I tossed the dice 20 times. Made 8 points, 2 inside numbers, a craps coming out, and a 7 out. Lasted maybe 10 minutes. Made alot of money, pressing up the odds bet to the allows 10x max, and a good win on the "Sharpshooter" bet, 2ways.

Just numbers being made would workout I think. I have had several rolls, seems to be once a year, that last 20-30, or 40 minutes. Making passes, making place/come numbers. A little of everything, add in the hardways and other center bets and it was profitable for all players.

Money made seems interesting too. How to define that? a triple up of the buy in? 8x the buy in ? From the dark side I think that would be harder to quantify, IMO.

I guess it would be a combination of all of it, and fits your personal definition. For me I would say 10+ minute, 10 number hits, and 3 + points made, with a 4x of the buy in . I picked 3 points, because we have sharpshoot bets in my area, and 3 is needed to pay off. Although it could vary.

Each of us would have a different thought. Shooter goes for 10 minutes, and hits nothing but 6 and 8, I'm gonna be up big and going to call it a monster, but someone else wont because they were on the 5/9 or on the don't.

Would not consider it a monster roll. To me a monster rolls mean nothing if you're not hitting your points! You can spend hours at a table and not win much :( Sure a monster roll would get a full table all rowdy but I'd much prefer to have a roll like the guy you mentioned. 7 points , all back to back, passline and true full odds, no time wasted, no hurt feet, and a good amount of money won.

Quote: Ahigh

I just don't get the fascination with monster rolls.

They are the Holy Grail for an aggressive PL/come/place bettor.

Surely you can see how alternating "press" and "same bet" on a roll that goes sixty or eighty numbers before sevening out can be "fascinating" to a player who has pressed to or near table limit and has a rack full of chips.

Quote: Ahigh

I watch tourists get sold terrible bets way too often to think the dealers aren't playing a part in getting people to bet more on odds hoping they will get bucked off the bull or win enough to start toking.

For the record, I'm not a dealer nor do I know any dealers. It's way too hard for dealers to worry about ignorant players. Honestly, why bother? Between the pace of the game and alllll types of different players, it seems like a waste of time. Aren't the dealers there to make sure the game is played by the rules? If you get an ignorant player who doesn't know the correct odds or doesn't make any, why tell them to put money down and risk a scene when they lose?

Do you have an example when you've seen a tourist get sold a terrible bet?

Quote: MrV

They are the Holy Grail for an aggressive PL/come/place bettor.

Surely you can see how alternating "press" and "same bet" on a roll that goes sixty or eighty numbers before sevening out can be "fascinating" to a player who has pressed to or near table limit and has a rack full of chips.

No, I'm saying I don't understand fascination with pretty much anything the dealers are trying to hawk off onto unsuspecting players who are math-challenged.

We has internetz. "lmgtfy."

Quote: befamous7

Do you have an example when you've seen a tourist get sold a terrible bet?

Is this an honest question? REALLY?

Is it even conceivable that I might answer, "no?"

Quote: Ahigh

Is it even conceivable that I might answer, "no?"

I'll get back to you on that one.

Quote: befamous7

Do you have an example when you've seen a tourist get sold a terrible bet?

My last trip to Vegas, I decided to play a bit of craps at Treasure Island. The box started bitching right away about some guys short throws, two other players kept screwing up their horn bets, and the dealer on my side was busy spreading his TB by hacking all over the place.
At some point the dealer says to me, "give me a buck and I'll show you a good bet". So I throw him a buck, and he makes an Any Craps bet! I said, "I thought you were going to show me a GOOD bet. That bet is for suckers." He says, "Not when it is hitting."

Needless to say I left shortly after this exchange and don't plan on going back in there to play craps again for a long, long, time.

Quote: befamous7

I'll get back to you on that one.

To get to the point, everyone should know the dealer's job is to sell the hi-lo, the any-seven, and as many simultaneous hop bets as they can muster. A good dealer makes money for the casino. That is, in fact their job. If they can hustle tips on top of that, they are a master. Tourists are the prime targets for such chicanery.

That's all there is to it. But get back when you have free time if you wish, I suppose.

Most of the dealers who tell stories about all the money that could be made talk about across with pressure not flat betting the line/come with max odds.

The four, five, nine, and ten for five bucks is the money-maker here for the house until you get to $20 per bet. Even even then, the five nine earns the casino at least $2 per hit at $20 and above.

That's no small change either. They want the bets that are above 1% per roll or above in general. The 13.89% and 11.11% bets get sold to the newbs. But even experienced players get sold "press up the five" or "press up the nine."

Compound edges get pricey!

Keep your bets low and your costs are low too.

I know plenty of very experienced craps players that bet the horn, hard ways, hi-lo, etc. One guy that I play with often bets a $5 world and a two-way YO every come out roll. The dealers even call it a "Bruce special".

Anyway PL players absolutely love a monster roll because it's FUN! High fives all around as the shooter keeps hitting points and place bets. Everything gets pressed up and it gets exciting as the shooter hits another number and avoids a 7. It's exactly what makes craps exciting.

During a "mini-monster" roll this weekend a guy walks up and lays the 4 and 10 for $600 each. The shooter, on a come-out roll, promptly rolls a 7. The guy gets paid and leaves the bets up. The shooter rolls another 7. Guy takes his winnings and takes his bets down and walks away almost $1200 richer. Exciting? Didn't seem like it for him. He didn't know it but the shooter rolled two more sevens in a row so he could have doubled his winnings if he had left them up.

I called it a mini-monster because he made 6 points and threw lots of numbers in about a 40 minute roll.

Quote: PBguy

He didn't know it but the shooter rolled two more sevens in a row so he could have doubled his winnings if he had left them up.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counterfactual_thinking