Death Stare

Last week, at a charity fundraising event, I was the stick on a craps table. Small stakes; $2 / $5 1X odds. Two guys were betting the pass line but not taking odds. Once the point was established, one guy would pick up his pass line bet and put it right back down again. I could not tell if he was making his stack shorter or taller but it bothered the heck out of me. After doing this several times, I said in a somewhat stern voice, "Sir, please don't touch your money".

Both he and his pal angrily stared at me for several minutes like I had just ran over their kitten with a truck. I mean it was a butt ugly stare-down. After a few, they simply walked away but the pal made a few unkind comments to me while exiting.

Was there some other words that I should have used in that situation? I did not accuse they guy of cheating. Rather, I simply wanted him to refrain from picking up his pass line bet every time. Perhaps it was the stern voice? Thoughts?

Quote: Riva

Last week, at a charity fundraising event, I was the stick on a craps table. Small stakes; $2 / $5 1X odds. Two guys were betting the pass line but not taking odds. Once the point was established, one guy would pick up his pass line bet and put it right back down again. I could not tell if he was making his stack shorter or taller but it bothered the heck out of me. After doing this several times, I said in a somewhat stern voice, "Sir, please don't touch your money".

Both he and his pal angrily stared at me for several minutes like I had just ran over their kitten with a truck. I mean it was a butt ugly stare-down. After a few, they simply walked away but the pal made a few unkind comments to me while exiting.

Was there some other words that I should have used in that situation? I did not accuse they guy of cheating. Rather, I simply wanted him to refrain from picking up his pass line bet every time. Perhaps it was the stern voice? Thoughts?

"I gotta tell ya that you can't decrease the amount of money on the pass line after the point's established. If you do that and I don't notice you doing that, I could even lose my job."

After saying this, observe and see if you continues the same behavior. If he doesn't stop then go to the next level of defense:

"Listen, each time you touch those chips, I gotta look over there to make sure you're not reducing the amount on the pass line. I don't mind treating you like someone who might be cheating if that's how you want to be treated, but I would rather we both understand that you're just having fun and not making me worry if you're trying to cheat and make me worry about getting fired."

There's not a quick way to deal with this situation. Let him know that you'd prefer not to be distracted by the possibility of him cheating. Most people probably got no idea why they can't pick up their pass line on a $3/$5 game with 1x odds.

Quote: Riva

Last week, at a charity fundraising event, I was the stick on a craps table. Small stakes; $2 / $5 1X odds. Two guys were betting the pass line but not taking odds. Once the point was established, one guy would pick up his pass line bet and put it right back down again. I could not tell if he was making his stack shorter or taller but it bothered the heck out of me. After doing this several times, I said in a somewhat stern voice, "Sir, please don't touch your money".

Both he and his pal angrily stared at me for several minutes like I had just ran over their kitten with a truck. I mean it was a butt ugly stare-down. After a few, they simply walked away but the pal made a few unkind comments to me while exiting.

Was there some other words that I should have used in that situation? I did not accuse they guy of cheating. Rather, I simply wanted him to refrain from picking up his pass line bet every time. Perhaps it was the stern voice? Thoughts?

You did right. I would not have given a long explanation or soliloquy about it on a live game.
You could explain that the pass line is a Contract bet, which means it can't be taken down - or even fooled with (aside from an increase which should be done with odds) - until it is resolved. But saying "Sir, please don't touch the money" in a strong voice is what a crap dealer does when someone farts around with contract bets, and is clear.

At such an event you are more likely to encounter ignorance than cheating but it is indeed a 'real money' game, so I'd have stepped on him sooner and but not some vague 'don't touch your money' but a specific 'contract bets can not be touched by the player until the point is resolved'.

By the way, what was he doing? Looking at the bottom side of chip in case something had happened to it? He was probably distracting you for a reason. Its too weird to chalk it up to 'curious dude'. He was doing something.

Quote: FleaStiff

...By the way, what was he doing? Looking at the bottom side of chip in case something had happened to it? He was probably distracting you for a reason. Its too weird to chalk it up to 'curious dude'. He was doing something.

This. I have never been on the business side of a table, to be fair, but if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it probably is not a zebra. I would have been suspicious of cheating. One time is curiosity, or lack of knowledge. The second time would have warranted commentary, in my book. The dirty look was probably because he realized he had been caught.

Changing the denomination of the bottom chip perhaps?

More than likely they were just counting their bet, not doing anything nefarious. Nonetheless, they need to know the rules, and shouldn't take it so personally when the dealer's doing their job.

Could have been some form of OCD superstition.

It seems less likely to be an honest mistake when someone responds defensively rather than with an apology.

Quote: Deucekies

More than likely they were just counting their bet, not doing anything nefarious.

I thought about that, but how many times do you have to count much less count by picking it up. No one else at the table seemed to have such short memories as to not recall how much they had just put down on the pass line a few minutes previously. That is why I felt they were either capping on the underside or simply distracting the stick man while a confederate did something at the other end of the table.

Quote: FleaStiff

I thought about that, but how many times do you have to count much less count by picking it up. No one else at the table seemed to have such short memories as to not recall how much they had just put down on the pass line a few minutes previously. That is why I felt they were either capping on the underside or simply distracting the stick man while a confederate did something at the other end of the table.

Somewhat agree..based on their "collective over-reaction" to my corrective comments.

Usually if someone's breaking the rules, I try to treat them like they just don't know rather than that they're taking shots - i.e. if someone places a Don't Pass bet after the point is established, I just tell them, "You can't do that. You can do the Don't Come or you can Lay a number." I would have simply told them, "You can't take your bet down. You can do odds/press it to put down more odds." I try to tell them what they can do if I have to tell them what they can't.

Look at it from the other side.

Craps table, not very crowded, two sweet young things playing their first few games.

Sweet young thing asks how do you know whose bets are which?

Dealer replies Oh its easy, ... what is your name? Upon hearing "Sally" he picks up one her bets, looks at the bottom of the bottom chip and says 'This one is yours".

Sally tells her friend, These guys are good. Two sweet young things give admiring smiles to skilled young dealers.

So there you have a VALID reason for a dealer to pick up a stack of chips and gaze at the bottom of it: He was chatting up a sweet young thing while the table was slow and the Floor was elsewhere. That is a good reason, it is certainly a common one.

But in the situation of a male player doing it and doing it repeatedly, I'm sure at a loss of coming up with anything other than "a ploy in some sort of scam" that was either going on or that they wanted to try to get going. They were either about to try something OR they were distracting observant crew men.