Break-in house dramas
The dirty stack was my bet, though, not the pay.
So I lost $190, and he lost his job.
I didn't intend for this to happen, though. It just sort of did.
Right after I left this joint, I went around the corner to another break-in joint where they don't allow you to set the dice.
Comedy all around.
Quote: AhighA dealer got fired because they were accused of overpaying me with a dirty stack.
The dirty stack was my bet, though, not the pay.
So I lost $190, and he lost his job.
I didn't intend for this to happen, though. It just sort of did.
Right after I left this joint, I went around the corner to another break-in joint where they don't allow you to set the dice.
Comedy all around.
I have sympathy for the dealer no doubt however one of the first things they teach you at dealer school is to watch for barber poling and to make sure the bets are broken down accordingly.
Perhaps dealing school is not the same in the US? I don't have any dealing school experience here.
But the guy was saying some really rude things to me. Definitely not acting like someone who wanted to keep their job.
Quote: AhighI feel badly about it, really. I'm not 100% innocent here in that they lost their job as a result of general strife related to my action being a bit unusual for them to handle.
But the guy was saying some really rude things to me. Definitely not acting like someone who wanted to keep their job.
I wouldn't worry about it.........
Quote: AhighA dealer got fired because they were accused of overpaying me with a dirty stack.
The dirty stack was my bet, though, not the pay.
So I lost $190, and he lost his job.
I didn't intend for this to happen, though. It just sort of did.
Right after I left this joint, I went around the corner to another break-in joint where they don't allow you to set the dice.
Comedy all around.
Sad. Not an easy job. A situation like that is always creepy. There are shot-takers out there who actually enjoy showing up a dealer or getting them fired as some sort of a table challenge or a blood sport.
For those not in the know a "dirty" chip is a chip someone else just lost, dealers must take losing chips back to their work area and pay out winnings in clean chips. Just two players at my end of the table. One had just lost his pass line bet of 15 and I had just won my don't pass bet of 15... so dealer tried to take the losing chips and put them next to my bet as a payoff. He didn't get away with it. He can take the exact same chips back to his work area and tap his working stack with them and then bring out those exact same chips again and pay me off, that is okay but he must pay off only with clean chips. Speak up loud and make sure that Boxman ain't asleep. If the Box ignores you, shout out loud and clear: FLOOR!
And if that money was yours... you should have spoken up. AND stood your ground.
If your play is pissing off a dealer its likely that YOU are doing something wrong.
Quote: FleaStiffI once had a dealer pay me off with 15 dollars worth of dirty chips and I told him do not pay me off with dirty chips, you take them back to your work area and you clean them.
For those not in the know a "dirty" chip is a chip someone else just lost, dealers must take losing chips back to their work area and pay out winnings in clean chips. Just two players at my end of the table. One had just lost his pass line bet of 15 and I had just won my don't pass bet of 15... so dealer tried to take the losing chips and put them next to my bet as a payoff. He didn't get away with it. He can take the exact same chips back to his work area and tap his working stack with them and then bring out those exact same chips again and pay me off, that is okay but he must pay off only with clean chips. Speak up loud and make sure that Boxman ain't asleep. If the Box ignores you, shout out loud and clear: FLOOR!
And if that money was yours... you should have spoken up. AND stood your ground.
If your play is pissing off a dealer its likely that YOU are doing something wrong.
Different houses have different policies on dirty chip payouts, though craps is a more strictly enforced game in terms of dealing procedures. On three card poker and UTH, etc., losing bonus bets are routinely paid to the main bet winners on the spot, right in front of the floor. On craps, chips have to go back behind the box numbers and be brought out again for the next player's pay. I had dealer once pay my pass line by pushing over the adjacent guy's losing don't pass of the same amount. Cringe.
Quote: AhighA dealer got fired because they were accused of overpaying me with a dirty stack.
The dirty stack was my bet, though, not the pay.
So I lost $190, and he lost his job.
I didn't intend for this to happen, though. It just sort of did.
Right after I left this joint, I went around the corner to another break-in joint where they don't allow you to set the dice.
Comedy all around.
I know what a dirty stack is, but what is a break in joint?
Quote: FleaStiffIf your play is pissing off a dealer its likely that YOU are doing something wrong.
I think you need to recognize that part of the pleasure that Ahigh gets from craps is derived from giving the dealers a hard time. He likes to present challenges for them in the dealing.
Last April, I encountered him at a craps table at the Silverton. The stick man next to me commented that Ahigh "may be a great guy, but he is a real pain at the table."
Right after that, on a come out roll, Ahigh asked the base dealer whether he could make a come bet then (instead of a pass bet) and have it move to the number. The dealer allowed that, and Ahigh turned to tell me, "That's the only way to get your bet out there with the puck." It's little things like that which give Ahigh extra jollies and p*ss off the dealers.
Some of them perhaps can't take it and do something that gets them fired.
Quote: FleaStiffI once had a dealer pay me off with 15 dollars worth of dirty chips and I told him do not pay me off with dirty chips, you take them back to your work area and you clean them.
For those not in the know a "dirty" chip is a chip someone else just lost, dealers must take losing chips back to their work area and pay out winnings in clean chips. Just two players at my end of the table. One had just lost his pass line bet of 15 and I had just won my don't pass bet of 15... so dealer tried to take the losing chips and put them next to my bet as a payoff. He didn't get away with it. He can take the exact same chips back to his work area and tap his working stack with them and then bring out those exact same chips again and pay me off, that is okay but he must pay off only with clean chips. Speak up loud and make sure that Boxman ain't asleep. If the Box ignores you, shout out loud and clear: FLOOR!
And if that money was yours... you should have spoken up. AND stood your ground.
If your play is pissing off a dealer its likely that YOU are doing something wrong.
just curious why you would care? Does it really matter?
A casino known for hiring inexperienced dealers who are therefore a bit slow, don't know all the press short cuts and perhaps don't know how to handle shot takers. Play is slow and payouts are error prone but usually the money is low and some like the pace.Quote: BozI know what a dirty stack is, but what is a break in joint?
About paying off in "dirty" chips.... does it really matter. YES. It matters.Quote: GWAEjust curious why you would care? Does it really matter?
Somethings matter more: such as always assuming a gun is loaded and NEVER taking anyone's word for it.
Somethings matter less: such as "three on a match" or dice bouncing off someone's hands.
But at a craps game if the dealers do not follow proper procedures when things are slow and the amounts are small, then they are lazy dealers and will make mistakes when things pick up a bit and the amounts get higher and the number of players is far larger.
Do not play where dealers take short cuts because those shortcuts will be likely to cost you money.
Paigowdan, you know you have earned a great deal of respect both in Vegas and in Cyberspace. Its not just your dealing skills and experience, but also your gentlemanly attitude toward refusing to short-stick a well endowed female. So I am indeed curious about your post:Quote: PaigowdanOn craps, chips have to go back behind the box numbers and be brought out again for the next player's pay. I had dealer once pay my pass line by pushing over the adjacent guy's losing don't pass of the same amount. Cringe.
Was it "Cringe and speak up" or "Cringe silently, but be alert to further dealer shenanigans"? Do you let dealers get away with such things or do you speak to the box about it? I don't ever want anyone to get written up because of me but procedures are important to the players, not just the house!
Quote: FleaStiffPaigowdan, you know you have earned a great deal of respect both in Vegas and in Cyberspace. Its not just your dealing skills and experience, but also your gentlemanly attitude toward refusing to short-stick a well endowed female. So I am indeed curious about your post:
Was it "Cringe and speak up" or "Cringe silently, but be alert to further dealer shenanigans"? Do you let dealers get away with such things or do you speak to the box about it? I don't ever want anyone to get written up because of me but procedures are important to the players, not just the house!
Thanks!.....As for these situations, it's first "Cringe and speak to the dealer" - as I'm not about trying to sack new dealers who are authentically trying to learn the craft. I may say something simple like "Watch the dirty money" [wink, wink, ahem...]. If a dealer is dealing like s**t, AND has an attitude problem about it, the floor gets a heads up on this.
Even at one of the worst casinos I've ever been in, I once had a dealer push me out a short stack of 80 instead of a full stack of 100 and Stick spoke up about it, but I announced "Its okay, I only bought in for 80.00". Everybody in the crew is supposed to watch for stacks that are too tall or too short or are of mixed denominations. Its the same way with watching for "sleaves" a stack painted to appear to be Reds but hollowed out to actually have Blacks inside them.
The term is "stroker" derived perhaps from the way an ant can stroke an aphid to induce it to yield a sweet exudate. The stroker actually enjoys the dealer's annoyance. Though its strange you said "Silverton" because it seems that place has real bargains and a lot of good steady gamblers seem to congregate there for good games, good dealers and good comps but no real glitter or glamor.Quote: DocI encountered him at a craps table at the Silverton. The stick man next to me commented that Ahigh "may be a great guy, but he is a real pain at the table."
Quote: AhighA dealer got fired because they were accused of overpaying me with a dirty stack.
The dirty stack was my bet, though, not the pay.
So I lost $190, and he lost his job.
I didn't intend for this to happen, though. It just sort of did.
So I understand correctly:
1) You had a bet of 2 blacks and some red.
2) You won, and the dealer cut in to your stack with red.
3) The pit boss saw this seconds later, and thought the red stack was your bet, thinking the dealer OVERpaid you $190, when in fact he UNDERpaid you $190. I'm guessing the dealer cut in from the wrong side to give the pit boss that idea.
What I'd like to know:
1) Was your bet properly set up? Blacks on the bottom, reds on the top? Not mixed?
2) Did you at any point try to tell someone that you were underpaid?
At least I get some input on the next lot of trainees coming through. By request of management I get to spend their first 2 weeks of training whipping them into shape.
So they will let me run their Pit, let me do their count, let me work the cage, let me run the Poker Room, Deal, Supervise and generally do anything they need me to do, but wont promote or pay me more. Sigh /rant.
Anyone want to sponsor me for a Visa so I can come work Vegas?
Quote: DeucekiesSo I understand correctly:
1) You had a bet of 2 blacks and some red.
2) You won, and the dealer cut in to your stack with red.
3) The pit boss saw this seconds later, and thought the red stack was your bet, thinking the dealer OVERpaid you $190, when in fact he UNDERpaid you $190. I'm guessing the dealer cut in from the wrong side to give the pit boss that idea.
What I'd like to know:
1) Was your bet properly set up? Blacks on the bottom, reds on the top? Not mixed?
2) Did you at any point try to tell someone that you were underpaid?
You got it right. I had $10 coming and $105 odds. I took my odds stack and put it on top of my come stack. I then sevened out.
They paid me $20, then said "STOP YOU OVERPAID WITH A DIRTY STACK."
I corrected them, and I took two blacks from the come up to the rail.
AFTER ALL OF THIS, THEY INSISTED THAT I WAS PAID WITH A DIRTY STACK AND TOOK THE MONEY BACK!
Basically the entire crew lied and claimed that they were certain I was paid with a $115 dirty stack when I had a $20 come bet.
Instead they tried to pay me with a $20 stack of red and I corrected them, and AFTER I CORRECTED THEM, they all LIED and said that they were certain that I was paid with a dirty stack.
I told them, "if all of you are certain that I was paid with a dirty stack, that's good enough for me" and we went on about things.
It wasn't until later when there was a discussion that I overheard that I decided to go and ask them to review the surveillance.
Basically, I was asked, "how often do you bet $115 in the come?" I conceded again saying that I am resting everyone on the CERTAINTY that the entire crew was sure that I was paid with a dirty stack.
But the certainty is that they are all wrong. Surveillance was not reviewed. The dealer was fired based on a mistake that he didn't make.
And then at the end of the day, I get a lecture about betting too big in a break-in house and "what do you expect?"
I told the general manager of this small casino not to sweat it, but I did want them to follow up to review the tapes because they will find out that I bet $115 in the come (red red black red from the bottom up) and took my $105 odds to stack on the come bet before my last roll.
I am absolutely certain of what happened.
They are only reinforcing each other based on a horrible dealer that doesn't know how to deal that they know what happened.
If the dealer in question had not been so rude to me, I might have stood up for him. But I have to admit that I enjoyed that he was getting harassed for overpaying me. He needed to lose his job, in fact. There were actually two dealers there just going at each others' throats basically for all the mistakes that this break-in was making, and then being rude to everyone on top of it all.
Quote: RSI would do everything in my power to make sure you got the short end of the stick, Ahigh. You sound like an absolutely awful player to deal to.
You would, huh? Alright. There are plenty of other dealers out there who share your sentiment, so you're in good company!
The black chip was hidden the entire time it was on the felt. It was hidden intentionally from the get-go.
Every dealer on the table was certain that the black chip came from the pass line after taken from the seven out. I had $250 on the pass line at the time I sevened out. Two blacks and two greens.
The point was nine as well. So this further made the dealer assume that I would not bet $105 on the odds as that's not a proper bet.
The casino cheated me out of $190. Everyone in the casino was fooled. Nobody ever checked the surveillance, but if they ever do, they will know that no matter how certain they were, I had $115 coming in a dirty stack of three reds and one black chip in the come.
The only mistake I made was not putting the black chip under the two red chips already on the come bet before rolling the seven out. If I had done that, they might have noticed there was a black chip in the stack on the come before I rolled the seven.
But they didn't.
Then they all lied and claimed that they were all "certain" that I was paid with a dirty stack.
They were all wrong. Every single one of them.
With today's teghnology it is a very quick review that would take less than 1 minute to resolve.
The only thing that I can think of and please don't take this the wrong way as I don't know you at all......you could be a habitual false claimer and they don't want to give you the satisfaction of getting a review?
Other than that I can see no good reason why you should not have been granted a review to prove or disprove your case.
Perhaps they were afraid of what answer they may get from the room?
Quote: AhighYou would, huh? Alright. There are plenty of other dealers out there who share your sentiment, so you're in good company!
Same with anyone else who has to deal with awful people in their jobs. What do you think a restaurant waiter thinks of the person who asks for a cheeseburger with no mayo extra ketchup pickles on the side light onions and extra crispy fries....then complains.
Quote: TomspurWhat I find hard to believe (and this coming from a Surveillance professional) is that, after a guest made a claim (hopefully pretty forcefully as it involved $190) the floor or pit manager or above decided NOT to send the claim upstairs.
With today's teghnology it is a very quick review that would take less than 1 minute to resolve.
The only thing that I can think of and please don't take this the wrong way as I don't know you at all......you could be a habitual false claimer and they don't want to give you the satisfaction of getting a review?
Other than that I can see no good reason why you should not have been granted a review to prove or disprove your case.
Perhaps they were afraid of what answer they may get from the room?
They may not even have a proper surveillance room. I suspect I may have paid $190 to verify that they simply don't have the capacity to do what should be, as you say, very simple.
I asked specifically to have surveillance resolve the issue, and I was denied my request.
If $190 meant more to me, I would have pressed the issue more at that time, but I wanted to see where this would go, and I told them "if you are certain, that's good enough for me."
Fact is that they have a poor concept of certain.
In the end, it is they who look bad, not me. The floor manager admitted to all of the problems that they are having and what a mess this evening was.
Two of the craps dealers were about to rip each others' throats out.
I suppose I could file a complaint with gaming over this. I was told 48 hours after the incident that it was too late to pull the video. It's now been another 24 hours.
I do want them to know that they all made a mistake. It does irk me that they took this money thinking to themselves that the knew what happened when they didn't.
It irks me further that I was effectively accused of taking a shot when they made the false claim that I was paid with a dirty stack.
I would not have taken the money if I thought that was what happened.
Period.
My reputation as an honest player is even more important than the $190, which is a big part of why I let them keep it. It's not worth it if they thought I was taking a shot to put it in the rail.
Quote: AhighFor others who follow along, this is not my first time a casino has decided to sweat $200 and ended up having to eat crow after some time.
I suppose I could file a complaint with gaming over this. I was told 48 hours after the incident that it was too late to pull the video. It's now been another 24 hours.
I do want them to know that they all made a mistake. It does irk me that they took this money thinking to themselves that the knew what happened when they didn't.
It irks me further that I was effectively accused of taking a shot when they made the false claim that I was paid with a dirty stack.
I would not have taken the money if I thought that was what happened.
Period.
My reputation as an honest player is even more important than the $190, which is a big part of why I let them keep it. It's not worth it if they thought I was taking a shot to put it in the rail.
That is not true unless this property is considered less than a "corporate licensee". Any casino has to have a Surveillance department with the ability to record video for a 24 hour period. Some casinos don't have permanent employees in the room but they still are required to store the video. Also according to the NGC all casinos have to save 7 days of gaming footage and 14 days of other sensitive information areas such as cage and soft count.
Any casino who tell you that, after 72 hours they have no more footage of the incident is either lying or beaking their licensing conditions.
If I had a black chip or so "in dispute" I'd be speed dialing for an Enforcement Officer, I'd be screaming about surveillance tapes, I'd be calling lawyers and newspapers and Nerserian, even though I can't afford his rates.
As one drug oriented actor said: There is something rotten in Denver here.
Quote: FleaStiffThere are indeed different strata for surveillance regulations often depending upon physical ability to install equipment over the gaming area.
If I had a black chip or so "in dispute" I'd be speed dialing for an Enforcement Officer, I'd be screaming about surveillance tapes, I'd be calling lawyers and newspapers and Nerserian, even though I can't afford his rates.
As one drug oriented actor said: There is something rotten in Denver here.
The KPI's with regards to Surveillance equipment in NV hedges on how much revenue each property makes and they are then categorized into Class A, B, C or D.
Mostly A and B have to have a room being monitored for 24 hours continuously with restricted access. C and D can have equipment with someone on the floor who can access and operate the equipment when needs be.
I don't know of anywhere that regulates a casino for being able to "place surveillance equipment above the gaming floor".
Nevada also requires any casino with 3 or more tables to have recording equipment that record (but is not necessarily viewed) for 24 hours.
Hope this helps.
Quote: DrawingDeadEven though these are not games I often play (and I have no relevant information to contribute) I'm finding this unusually detailed and knowledgeable discussion of pit procedures and surveillance requirements extremely interesting, just purely as a spectator wandering by from non-house-banked stuff at "the other end" of the casino floor, more so than any similar discussion I remember seeing anywhere else.
I enjoy sharing information about Surveillance that is also mostly available in the public domain. If you ask me property specific questions I may have to clam up a little.
Sharing information can only improve the gaming side by learning from our previous mistakes and it can help the players too as it makes them aware of what rights they have with regards to the Surveillance and casino operations.
Jevah hear of the MGM fire in Vegas? Fire suppression above casino floors is required. Running cable in the same area requires complying with separate regulations.Quote: Tomspur
I don't know of anywhere that regulates a casino for being able to "place surveillance equipment above the gaming floor".
NFTA 90A, if I recall correctly, regulates cable installation in plenum areas. And some of those old casinos just don't have the physical space to run Plenum Cable. Riser cable for running cable floor to floor is expensive enough, but plenum cable fire codes require not only expensive stuff but separate cabling for power, telemetry, noise suppression, ... and often the cabling is already over stuffed because coaxial cable takes so much space.
Casinos are reverting to UTP unshielded Twisted Pair cables from POTS (Plain Old Telephone Systems) its real skinny and gives them less signal interference and less need to run separate cables for different purposes.
Quote: FleaStiffJevah hear of the MGM fire in Vegas? Fire suppression above casino floors is required. Running cable in the same area requires complying with separate regulations.
NFTA 90A, if I recall correctly, regulates cable installation in plenum areas. And some of those old casinos just don't have the physical space to run Plenum Cable. Riser cable for running cable floor to floor is expensive enough, but plenum cable fire codes require not only expensive stuff but separate cabling for power, telemetry, noise suppression, ... and often the cabling is already over stuffed because coaxial cable takes so much space.
Casinos are reverting to UTP unshielded Twisted Pair cables from POTS (Plain Old Telephone Systems) its real skinny and gives them less signal interference and less need to run separate cables for different purposes.
Who uses Coax anymore?????
Tampa: "Transcript" at Baccarat Table (lowest limit).
Dealer: You Effen Corksucker.
Floor: Which Effen Corksucker? (loudly, in earshot of all players).
Dealer: All of 'em Effen Corksuckers.
Situation: Near EndofShift: Toke Box: totally empty. Table Full the whole darn shift.
No write ups to Dealer or Floor.
Quote: FleaStiffThere are indeed different strata for surveillance regulations often depending upon physical ability to install equipment over the gaming area.
If I had a black chip or so "in dispute" I'd be speed dialing for an Enforcement Officer, I'd be screaming about surveillance tapes, I'd be calling lawyers and newspapers and Nerserian, even though I can't afford his rates.
As one drug oriented actor said: There is something rotten in Denver here.
[assumes WhaleGeorge persona] All that for a black chip!
All that is lot more stringent than anything the renowned IRS data-retention experts work with.Quote: TomspurAlso according to the NGC all casinos have to save 7 days of gaming footage and 14 days of other sensitive information areas such as cage and soft count. Any casino who tell you that, after 72 hours they have no more footage of the incident is either lying or beaking their licensing conditions.
On the seven out, I had $108 lay bet on the eight. They tried to pay me $85 including assistance from the person in the pit who made me give her $190 that was not her money last week.
After the box instructed the dealer to pay $85 for my $108 lay on the eight with no other action except $5 pass, and I spent 15 seconds explaining why it paid $90, I then went on to explain that the dirty stack last week was my stack and that she and everyone else was wrong.
Box said, "no" and I cut them off and said, "look I don't know if you care or not, but I knew the whole time that I was right. And every single one of you called me a liar. I'm not going to play here any more."
There was only silence, and I took four figures to the cashier and cashed out and left.
I had been thinking about what would be the best way to make my point, and this just worked out. The box is there to correct mistakes not to make them.
That entire crew is just unable to handle black chip action in general. So that's pretty much what I told them and left. I think that they already knew this to begin with, and the way that I did this, nobody got tattled on, and nobody else lost their job besides the guy last week who needed to go anyway.
I like all these people. But that's why they need to know that they were all wrong and why I won't be coming back is because of the fact that they can't deal properly.
I really hope I didn't come across as an ass. And it's possible that I did, but it wasn't going to be a negotiation. There's a right and there's a wrong. And if they can't review the surveillance tape to figure out that I'm right and they are wrong, they'll just hear it from me in a very clear way while they are making a mistake that they just need improvement is all.
After that $190 and a couple hundred more they took from me, I am still beating them this year. And I do think that this may factor into the equation. IE: they might think that I am taking shots in order to beat them, but I'm just getting lucky is all.
But no matter what the case is, when you're wrong, you're wrong. And people can and do get lucky and win big.
Heck, all that for a white chip!!Quote: AcesAndEights[assumes WhaleGeorge persona] All that for a black chip!
Quote: AhighLatest update on this. I went back in at the same day and time as last week. I had action that amounted to about $700 on the felt at any given time.
On the seven out, I had $108 lay bet on the eight. They tried to pay me $85 including assistance from the person in the pit who made me give her $190 that was not her money last week.
After the box instructed the dealer to pay $85 for my $108 lay on the eight with no other action except $5 pass, and I spent 15 seconds explaining why it paid $90, I then went on to explain that the dirty stack last week was my stack and that she and everyone else was wrong.
After all that with the "dirty stack" you went back there and laid $108 behind the eight? What the fuck did you expect?
Quote:Box said, "no" and I cut them off and said, "look I don't know if you care or not, but I knew the whole time that I was right. And every single one of you called me a liar. I'm not going to play here any more."
There was only silence, and I took four figures to the cashier and cashed out and left.
I had been thinking about what would be the best way to make my point, and this just worked out. The box is there to correct mistakes not to make them.
That entire crew is just unable to handle black chip action in general. So that's pretty much what I told them and left. I think that they already knew this to begin with, and the way that I did this, nobody got tattled on, and nobody else lost their job besides the guy last week who needed to go anyway.
I like all these people. But that's why they need to know that they were all wrong and why I won't be coming back is because of the fact that they can't deal properly.
I really hope I didn't come across as an ass.
I'll say it, you are an ass.
Quote:And it's possible that I did, but it wasn't going to be a negotiation. There's a right and there's a wrong. And if they can't review the surveillance tape to figure out that I'm right and they are wrong, they'll just hear it from me in a very clear way while they are making a mistake that they just need improvement is all.
After that $190 and a couple hundred more they took from me, I am still beating them this year. And I do think that this may factor into the equation. IE: they might think that I am taking shots in order to beat them, but I'm just getting lucky is all.
But no matter what the case is, when you're wrong, you're wrong. And people can and do get lucky and win big.
There's a right and there's a wrong, and there's being a fucking jackass because you like to lord it over people so you can look big. What the fuck do you expect going in to these break-in joints and betting barber poles, turning your place bets on and off at your whimsy, basically just being an all around jackass? If you get shorted five bucks or a hundred and ninety bucks, you're getting what's coming to you. Ferchrisakes dude.
Quote: AhighLatest update on this. I went back in at the same day and time as last week. I had action that amounted to about $700 on the felt at any given time.
On the seven out, I had $108 lay bet on the eight. They tried to pay me $85 including assistance from the person in the pit who made me give her $190 that was not her money last week.
After the box instructed the dealer to pay $85 for my $108 lay on the eight with no other action except $5 pass, and I spent 15 seconds explaining why it paid $90, I then went on to explain that the dirty stack last week was my stack and that she and everyone else was wrong.
Box said, "no" and I cut them off and said, "look I don't know if you care or not, but I knew the whole time that I was right. And every single one of you called me a liar. I'm not going to play here any more."
There was only silence, and I took four figures to the cashier and cashed out and left.
I had been thinking about what would be the best way to make my point, and this just worked out. The box is there to correct mistakes not to make them.
That entire crew is just unable to handle black chip action in general. So that's pretty much what I told them and left. I think that they already knew this to begin with, and the way that I did this, nobody got tattled on, and nobody else lost their job besides the guy last week who needed to go anyway.
I like all these people. But that's why they need to know that they were all wrong and why I won't be coming back is because of the fact that they can't deal properly.
I really hope I didn't come across as an ass. And it's possible that I did, but it wasn't going to be a negotiation. There's a right and there's a wrong. And if they can't review the surveillance tape to figure out that I'm right and they are wrong, they'll just hear it from me in a very clear way while they are making a mistake that they just need improvement is all.
After that $190 and a couple hundred more they took from me, I am still beating them this year. And I do think that this may factor into the equation. IE: they might think that I am taking shots in order to beat them, but I'm just getting lucky is all.
But no matter what the case is, when you're wrong, you're wrong. And people can and do get lucky and win big.
Why make a big deal of this if they agreed with your explanation and paid the $90? you already knew they had a tough time with your action but you went back anyways--so the most you should have done is correct them on any incorrect payout. Everyone here pretty much agrees that the player must look out for himself...you did that.
Bringing up your dirty stack issue from last week is a bit much--you already knew the crew didn't get it; you should have gone over their head when it happened if you thought you had an issue. Throwing a tantrum and walking out probably won't fix a thing and they won't miss your action.
Good thing their are lots of casinos in Vegas--you seem to get peeved at one of them every few weeks. Why not just enjoy gambling, watch your payouts, and not be so uptight about it?
