Weird (dumb) question about odds.

Quote: Ahigh

I defined the bet to be a bet that you can roll a six or an eight before a seven.
That bet lasts 36/16 or 2.25 rolls. You do understand that right?
Or do you not?

It's not two bets, it's one bet.

Thank you Ahigh!
hahaha

what craps player wins your bet, takes it down and never makes it again?
not one, not even Ahigh!

what is dangerous, small, and sits in a tree?

yeah

In your dreams. Not even your craps table shows it as 1 bet

here is what JB shows
(I think he is a craps expert)

see
2 bets and not 1
the case is now closed

Oh, Oh and OH
Steen did not expose you, you did it to yourself a long time ago (actually very recently too)
I do enjoy watching your videos. I turn the sound down as I am fat.

Quote: Ahigh

Sally left the forum, ultimately, for her inability to admit she was wrong on this subject.

thank you for your opinion

Quote: Ahigh

I never said <snip> <snip>

Thank you Ahigh for all you're efforts
There has to some way the Wizard can make money from this.

Maybe a weekly YouTube channel like stuff like this
even 0.999... = 1
Vi Hart gets lots of hits on her vids

people LOVE watching videos

money and house edge rules!
Thank you again as I skip off into the night
Sally

Quote: mustangsally

what craps player wins your bet, takes it down and never makes it again?
not one, not even Ahigh!

Oh? But when they bet just the six or just the eight, they do?

The differences in the way people look at "resolved bets" are the source of the confusion.

If anyone else says a place bet is resolved when it pays from five possible results, why can't I have a bet that resolves when it pays from ten?

Your argument holds little water for my bet versus any other place bet on its own.

I've been following this thread pretty close and I have to say it mostly looks like english.

But I have no idea what they are talking about?

See if I got this in the right place or not? Some dealer or mentor somewhere told me there were about a hundred bets that weren't on the felt.

Besides what seems to be the regular bets here on the west coast are any of you aware of other bets that can be made?

I was told this years ago so after the regular bets we all see including props, and hops do you know of other bets? For instance where the odds are placed for a point number could be one. I don't know but is there a "don't" for the big six/8? Nobody would take the don't on the hardways but is there some bet like that?

Anybody got anything?

why not do a wincraps simulation here?

Quote: mustangsally

Quote: Ahigh

I defined the bet to be a bet that you can roll a six or an eight before a seven.
That bet lasts 36/16 or 2.25 rolls. You do understand that right?
Or do you not?

It's not two bets, it's one bet.

In your dreams. Not even your craps table shows it as 1 bet
Sally

How about looking it this way: It's one bet on a win, since each number wins separately, but two bets on a 7 out, since the 7 takes both out at once. Both of you are right.

Look: you can't have it both ways. The bet in the game of craps is based on shooting the dice. There is no such thing as a bet in the game of craps where the placement of the chips on the felt causes a win or a loss without the dice being thrown. Even the put bet only becomes a mistake once the dice are thrown!

The game is a game where you gamble on the dice. You don't gamble on what the felt looks like.

Many places don't have hop bets marked on the felt, yet they gladly book those bets. Do those bets not exist because they aren't marked on the felt in those casinos?

It's a very weak argument that a bet can cease to exist because there is not felt to support the bet.

I even make bets with the dealers without taking a chip off the rail. I assure you that those zero-house-edge bets exist too because I pay them. No felt required!

Now I don't want to get into this pissing match that some are having on this thread, but there are different ways of looking at bets that you make and you have to underrstand the dice as well as the math of the game. As Ahigh has said most craps players never look at a carps bet as being resolved when they win that bet, because they leave that bet up!

To them there is no one hit and down, they must press so they can win, for anybody that plays the game they should be looking at ROI and at the same time their chances of winning that bet, if they are playing by the math of the game! Now I ask someone to do the math of the two place bets combined with their sister numbers. So far no-takers, and here I thought that it would be a very easy equation for one of you math guys come up with, to prove Ahigh wrong.

I must've misjudged you all, here I thought you be jumping all over this problem. Your big chance to prove Ahigh wrong is slipping away! Maybe you don't want egg your face! Personally, I never have a problem being wrong, my wife tells me I'm wrong all the time and I have no problem admitting when I'm wrong, just like telling everybody that the so-called DI's lose all the time, they just play more then a so-called random roller will and the dealers, suits, and boxmen are paying attention to only them, because they are setting the dice. They never pay attention to the so-called random roller that just had the sixty roll!

Quote: Steen

Interesting ... you're not a math guy and can't explain it but you nonetheless believe it and are therefore convinced that I should go back and redo it.

Oh is it SISTER numbers that makes the combinations special? So the numbers know when their sisters are being wagered and they conspire to win more often or lose less often? So THAT'S how they have a lower edge together! I honestly didn't know that. Hmmm, sisters ...

You mean the sisters have problems?

By all means, let one of the math guys explain it to me. That would be Ahigh, right?

Sorry superrick, I mean no disrespect but you haven't convinced me.

I really get a kick out of some of you guys, I often have to ask just how many times a week you play craps. Is it once a year, twice a year, maybe three times a year? Or do you even play at all?

Maybe Ahigh can explain it to you, or maybe even mustangsally when they take the time to come up with the equation as to how two bets made at the same time on yes sister numbers, will lower the house edge that they have on you , but again you have to look at your ROI for making those two bets and looking at them as one combined bet.

Please prove Ahigh wrong, and me too at the same time! I have no problem with that, and you can't insult me, I'm to old for that silliness. I also have no problem sticking up for Ahigh, we may not see eye to eye on how the game should be played, but I have to admit that he has taking the time to study problems like this and came up with a different way of looking at some bets.

Steen,..I really don't care if you do disrespect me, you have your right to do so, you can't hurt me with name calling, I have a very thick skin, and yes I've been wrong many times in my life! I will probably never have the pleasure of meeting you! But you remind me of the engineer I had to deal with one time, that was standing there telling me that what I was saying was impossible, and when I asked him, how he could be still making that statement when he was standing there watching the problem happen. Do you know he couldn't come up with a answer, and would not admit that he was wrong!

Quote: Ahigh

Look: you can't have it both ways.

yes, one can (and you are right - you can't)
thank you for your opinion saying the opposite

right Marty?
Look!

I love a man that is handsome and quiet

any number of bets can be shown to have different house edges but the same expected value (duh)

let us not mention variance

and different average bets

and different coefficient of friction

Player
"Dealer. I want $100 on 2,1 (deuce - ace)"
Dealer: "You get both ways"
Player
"No. I want 2,1 and NOT 1,2
The bet is NOT on the felt but it can be made
I demand it be made"

Dealer: "Did you bring your own dice too?"

Quote: superrick

Now I don't want to get into this pissing match that some are having on this thread, but there are different ways of looking at bets that you make and you have to underrstand the dice as well as the math of the game.

I win almost every session I play
(every pause of my lifetime session. It is at 82% almost)

I think I owe it to the fact I do not "underrstand the dice as well as the math of the game."

I do not play Craps every day, but when I do play in Vegas, I play at least 43 hours of craps every day.

Quote: superrick

As Ahigh has said most craps players never look at a carps bet as being resolved when they win that bet, because they leave that bet up!

yes, Ahigh says lots of things
(hey a great idea for a YouTube video series. His wife can produce it. "What Ahigh said today"}

but
carps bet
yes

and I for one enjoy his many opinions
no matter what bag of tricks he pulled them out of


and "resolved" to Ahigh does not mean win, lose or draw

this is another case closed topic

See yas at the Craps table! (after I first play VP)
I am the b***h that Lays against many points and may (not always) ask you if you are going to 7out real fast or hit the point
That will give me away

Sally Oh

Quote: mustangsally

when I do play in Vegas, I play at least 43 hours of craps every day.

Sally, you tell so many lies, it's hard to know what you're representing as your actual beliefs versus just what you might think is sarcasm, but is simply interpreted by others as lies.

I know plenty of people would love to drool on that claim you made about your bankroll. Why not make a video where we can see all that money in a way that we know it's all there and that you're not just making it up?

In my opinion, your credibility is hurt by what I'm sure you consider to be obvious sarcasm, yet for others, you seem to be full of statements that are hard to believe.

The kind of statements that would be even harder to believe than my claim that a bet could have 2.25 rolls that isn't marked on the felt.

Quote: Ahigh

I know plenty of people would love to drool on that claim you made about your bankroll. Why not make a video where we can see all that money in a way that we know it's all there and that you're not just making it up?

Sounds like secret squirrel stuff. Like Evenbob's roulette system. Probably the same system.

Quote: Ahigh

Sally, you tell so many lies, it's hard to know what you're representing as your actual beliefs versus just what you might think is sarcasm, but is simply interpreted by others as lies.

Liar = a person (not a place or thing) that tells lies
hmmm
43 hours each day when in Vegas. ain't no lie

One day for me in Vegas (Nevada) = 192 hours

many people want to play with me to get to know me but only my husband knows why I am so silly and that suits me well in my birthday suit
(I just got out of the shower)

Quote: Ahigh

I know plenty of people would love to drool on that claim you made about your bankroll.

really? It was $400 and I lost all of it
Then I had to start again from money my Mom gave me.
CA has Lottery every week, and I got lucky one time

Quote: Ahigh

Why not make a video where we can see all that money in a way that we know it's all there and that you're not just making it up?

In a way that we know...
that is silly
I do not think my bank would allow it but I could
I have tax returns and bank statements, but anyone can make those up

Quote: Ahigh

In my opinion, <snip>

OK
I love your opinions
what else do you wants?
Sally Oh Sally

What Ahigh said today
by
Mrs. H
that is one video I would watch

One roll EV for placing 6 and 8 for $6 each: -6c / -0.46%
One roll EV for placing 5 and 9 for $5 each: -11c / -1.11%
One roll EV for placing 4 and 10 for $5 each: -17c / -1.667%
One roll EV for placing the 2 for $1 and the 6 for $6: -19c / -2.28%
One roll EV for placing the 2 and 12 for $1 each: -28c / -13.89%
One roll EV for placing every number bar the 7: -$1 / -2.778%

(assuming 30 to 1 and 15 to 1 on the Horn bets and that I've not made mistakes....)

Boy,... I just love all of the sarcasm in this thread, but I don't have time for it, here is my question for all of you math guys and lets not forget women. What's house advantage does the casino hold on me, if I place the 6 for $6? Then what house advantage does the casinos have on me if I place both the 6 and the 8 for $6 ea, at the same time?

Please just give a very simple explanation, and show the formula for figuring it out!

Quote: superrick

Boy,... I just love all of the sarcasm in this thread, but I don't have time for it, here is my question for all of you math guys and lets not forget women. What's house advantage does the casino hold on me, if I place the 6 for $6? Then what house advantage does the casinos have on me if I place both the 6 and the 8 for $6 ea, at the same time?

Please just give a very simple explanation, and show the formula for figuring it out!

I refer the gentleman to the answer given some moments ago. As for the formula... I leave that as an exercise to the reader.

Quote: superrick

here is my question for all of you math guys and lets not forget women. What's house advantage does the casino hold on me, if I place the 6 for $6? Then what house advantage does the casinos have on me if I place both the 6 and the 8 for $6 ea, at the same time?

Please just give a very simple explanation, and show the formula for figuring it out!

so demanding
Let an expert have at this

this page to play with
https://wizardofodds.com/games/craps/appendix/2/

I think he also has a formula of "The player's edge is the expected return divided by the initial bet."
and how it works
https://wizardofodds.com/games/craps/appendix/1/

The player's edge = the expected return / the initial bet

Have fun!

Quote: djatc

Sounds like secret squirrel stuff. Like Evenbob's roulette system. Probably the same system.

All this time I thought MS' team used card counting to beat the vig on the lay 4 and 10. Then again, I also thought rudeboy and mission could eat a hundred nuggets.

Quote: RogerKint

All this time I thought MS' team used card counting to beat the vig on the lay 4 and 10. Then again, I also thought rudeboy and mission could eat a hundred nuggets.

I count cards in video poker and made like $586000

Quote: RogerKint

All this time I thought MS' team used card counting to beat the vig on the lay 4 and 10. Then again, I also thought rudeboy and mission could eat a hundred nuggets.

if you have played at San Manuel, I think you have, you know it is possible and profitable for a team with a $500 max bet to beat the vig on many bets, not just a few.

But that is small time team play that I am about to retire from.

My expert analysis on Team Baccarat AP (not my team) session risk of ruin exposed not one but 2 team cheaters
I figured there was one, I guess I was nervous (one is lucky, but two!)

The team found 2 cheaters, with video proof, that have been eliminated from and further team play (so I was told)
and I think also lost their free Sunday Buffet pass too. (gee, might as well be dead)

See you on the 8s
Sally

Quote: mustangsally

if you have played at San Manuel, I think you have, you know it is possible and profitable for a team with a $500 max bet to beat the vig on many bets, not just a few.

But that is small time team play that I am about to retire from.

My expert analysis on Team Baccarat AP (not my team) session risk of ruin exposed not one but 2 team cheaters
I figured there was one, I guess I was nervous (one is lucky, but two!)

The team found 2 cheaters, with video proof, that have been eliminated from and further team play (so I was told)
and I think also lost their free Sunday Buffet pass too. (gee, might as well be dead)

See you on the 8s
Sally

Honestly didn't mean to blow up your play. I haven't played craps there but I remember seeing a sign for max bet at 2k. You and yours must have hurt them.

If any of silly Sallys BR claims are true sally never really said how her BR was earned. Sally mentioned something about hitting lotto. As Ahigh mentioned no one knows what to believe. Sally seems to insinuate things leading and plays with words leading us to believe Sally does or is something.

Kind of like this. I AxelWolf I am A craps AP I have played craps many, many, many times for many years, I am up throughout my life time, I have a significant advantage that over 5%. I have played with many people who can confirm this. I can also prove I have an advantage mathematically.

The above statement is actually true.

We don't even know what sex sally really is.

Quote: AxelWolf

Kind of like this. I AxelWolf I am A craps AP I have played craps many, many, many times for many years, I am up throughout my life time, I have a significant advantage that over 5%. I have played with many people who can confirm this. I can also prove I have an advantage mathematically.

"Can I get an extra fun book for my girlfriend as well? She's a huge gambler."

I really do miss 7craps !

Quote: AxelWolf

If any of silly Sallys BR claims are true sally never really said how her BR was earned. Sally mentioned something about hitting lotto. As Ahigh mentioned no one knows what to believe. Sally seems to insinuate things leading and plays with words leading us to believe Sally does or is something.

Kind of like this. I AxelWolf I am A craps AP I have played craps many, many, many times for many years, I am up throughout my life time, I have a significant advantage that over 5%. I have played with many people who can confirm this. I can also prove I have an advantage mathematically.

The above statement is actually true.

We don't even know what sex sally really is.

Some might say getting married/divorced is like hitting the lotto.

Quote: superrick

Now I don't want to get into this pissing match...
... I often have to ask just how many times a week you play craps. Is it once a year, twice a year, maybe three times a year? Or do you even play at all?

My friend, I've played more craps in more places than you can imagine. But our experiences really have nothing to do with the voracity of our arguments so let's not get into that pissing match as you say.

Quote: superrick

Maybe Ahigh can explain it to you ...

Maybe not.

Quote: superrick

Please prove Ahigh wrong, and me too at the same time!

As I wrote, I've no objection to how Ahigh plays or accounts for his money. Why should I care what he does? It's his attempt to convince others that his method lowers the edge (house advantage) which I object to.

Consider the outcome per resolution of a $12 Place6 bet:
5/11 chance to win $14 = $70/11
6/11 chance to lose $12 = -$72/11
Net loss per resolution = -$2/11 = -0.182
Average loss per resolution per dollar wagered = -$0.182/12 = -1.52%

Now consider the outcome per roll of the same $12 Place6 bet:
5/36 chance to win $14 = $70/36
6/36 chance to lose $12 = -$72/36
25/36 chance to push
Net loss per roll = -$2/36 = -0.056
Average loss per roll per dollar wagered = -$0.056/$12 = -0.463%

Did the house advantage change? The numbers are smaller: 0.463% instead of 1.52%. Does that mean it went down? Well, does the house earn more or less because the average loss is expressed in a different manner? Does the dealer make a smaller payoff? Absolutely not! It's just an accounting difference. Look at the numerator in the "per roll" and "per resolution" calculations - they each show a net loss of $2. If we divide it by 36 we get the loss per roll and by 11 we get the loss per resolution. We could choose any metric we want to measure our average outcome but it still would NOT change the house advantage.

What if I decide I want to express the average loss per push? Can I do that? Of course, I can!

The probability of a push is 25/36, so:
Net loss per push = -$2/25 = -$0.08
Average loss per push per dollar wagered = $0.08/12 = 0.667%

Did I change the advantage? Hardly. So ask yourself what is the house advantage? How does the house gain the advantage and hope to earn its money?

Does the house earn money from bets that push? If you make a Place6 bet and pull it down after a few rolls without a win or loss, does the house return all your money? Of course they do! There's no charge for bets that push. So they certainly can't gain the advantage and win money from bets that push.

Well gee, they must gain the advantage from bets that win or lose! By taking more or paying less than they should according to the true odds, they gain the advantage.

As it turns out, the advantage the house enjoys is not the same on all bets. By plying their winning and losing outcomes to the probability of winning and losing each bet, we can determine their advantages and decide which ones we want to play.

Now along comes Ahigh who says he can make combinations of bets that lower the edge. He offers up the Place6/Place8 combo, so let's look at that:

Consider the outcome per roll of a combined $6 Place6 and $6 Place8 bet:
10/36 chance to win $7 = $70/36
6/36 chance to lose $12 = -$72/36
20/36 chance to push
Net loss per roll = -$2/36 = -0.056
Average loss per roll per dollar wagered = -$0.056/$12 = 0.463% (note that this is the same as Place6 or Place8 alone)

Ahigh notes that the chance of resolving one or both of these bets is 16/36, so he decides to express the net loss of $2 as:

Net loss per resolution = -$2/16 = -0.125
Average loss per resolution per dollar wagered = -$0.125/$12 = 1.0416% (Ahigh's number from the post I first addressed)

Now, I ask you again, did he change the house advantage? NO! NO! NO! He's only expressing it in a different way.

Now, there's nothing wrong with expressing the loss this way if you find it useful. But the key point that I objected to was in comparing this figure to the standard edge and trying to convince you that it represents a reduction in the edge. Can you see what I'm talking about now? The edge did not change! Craps bets are not synergistic.

A question: If a cup of water is 70 degree fahrenheit and I change the temperature scale to centigrade and now say it's 21 degrees, did I lower the heat content of the water?

I didn't even read the whole thing, but you are stating things that are false.

Go back and read what I said. I said you could make a bet. A single bet. And the average house edge for the resolution of that bet could be lower.

I never used the word "house advantage" in my description at all.

You are making a lot of straw man arguments to defend what you know as true without any comprehension of what I said, apparently.

You are merely attacking things that I did not say at all.

I corrected your mistakes. I'm not sure where you have corrected any of mine.

Quote: Ahigh

You can bet that the 6/8 comes before a seven.

That's generally a bet in units of $12 dollars and pays $7 per $12.

I like to ask for this bet by putting $12 on the come and saying in an sort of Asian female dealer voice "SICK AN ATE."

They will put $6 on the six and $6 on the eight.

If either the six or the eight hits, you will win $7. That's when you say "E'REY TING DOWN". when they return your money you say "YAY! I WON! YAY!!!!"

Your bet is over.

This bet is not marked independently on the felt, but it can be had. $12 pays $7. You win ten out of sixteen times on average. The bet lasts for 36/16 rolls (2.25 rolls) and goes very quickly. The edge per resolution is lower than betting only the six or only the eight because of the fewer number of rolls.

The edge is $0.20 / $19.20 = 1.0416%

Happy to be of service!

YAY!!!!!

Here's the original thing unedited. Point out what is untrue about this.

Quote: Ahigh

Here's the original thing unedited. Point out what is untrue about this.

Am I to understand now that you are NOT claiming that you can lower the house advantage through combinations of bets?

Oh, sorry, I did not know this restroom was occupied

Quote: Steen

Now, there's nothing wrong with expressing the loss this way if you find it useful.
But the key point that I objected to was in comparing this figure to the standard edge and trying to convince you that it represents a reduction in the edge. Can you see what I'm talking about now? The edge did not change! Craps bets are not synergistic.

Quote: Ahigh

I never used the word "house advantage" in my description at all.

and BTW
house advantage
is two words and not one!

It feels so good to be the Queen of Gambling
I ate so much food today

Sally

Quote: Steen

Am I to understand now that you are NOT claiming that you can lower the house advantage through combinations of bets?

Am I to understand that you cannot point out a single thing that is untrue in the original message?

Quote: mustangsally

Oh, sorry, I did not know this restroom was occupied

Quote: Steen

Now, there's nothing wrong with expressing the loss this way if you find it useful.
But the key point that I objected to was in comparing this figure to the standard edge and trying to convince you that it represents a reduction in the edge. Can you see what I'm talking about now? The edge did not change! Craps bets are not synergistic.

and BTW
house advantage
is two words and not one!

It feels so good to be the Queen of Gambling
I ate so much food today

Sally

I got to ask, [edit]what are the chances of that

Quote: Ahigh

Am I to understand that you cannot point out a single thing that is untrue in the original message?

True to form - never can answer a question can you?

First, "edge" is a synonym for "advantage" or didn't you know?

Second, if you would answer my question then arguing about who said what and meant what would be unnecessary. Or is it bickering that you enjoy? Do you agree that you CANNOT lower the house advantage on a Place6/Place8 combination to less than the Place6 or Place8 alone?

I can't imagine anybody who doesn't HAVE to read this thread, like I do, is still reading this thread. Good grief, people. Tomato. Tomato. Potato. Potato. Let's call the whole thing off.

Quote: beachbumbabs

I can't imagine anybody who doesn't HAVE to read this thread, like I do, is still reading this thread. Good grief, people. Tomato. Tomato. Potato. Potato. Let's call the whole thing off.

Amen.

-----

Quote: Steen

True to form - never can answer a question can you?

First, "edge" is a synonym for "advantage" or didn't you know?

Second, if you would answer my question then arguing about who said what and meant what would be unnecessary. Or is it bickering that you enjoy? Do you agree that you CANNOT lower the house advantage on a Place6/Place8 combination to less than the Place6 or Place8 alone?

Here's the crux of the issue. You are making straw man arguments because as a matter of fact, the original message was entirely correct.

I'm not diverting my attention to the straw man. Sorry.

I don't know that I am familiar with your stance on dice, though. There are a number of people who continue to believe that dice control is possible.

What are your lifetime wins? Are they a result of luck or skill in throwing the dice if you have them. If you don't, how do you feel about selling software called "win craps?"

I have never used your software before myself. But I have heard good things about it from folks who believe in controlling the dice.

I have also heard good things about "the method." Do you believe that "the method" helps you win at craps too?

Quote: FleaStiff

Amen.

Awomen

Quote: Ahigh

Here's the crux of the issue. You are making straw man arguments because as a matter of fact, the original message was entirely correct. I'm not diverting my attention to the straw man. Sorry. I don't know that I am familiar with your stance on dice, though. There are a number of people who continue to believe that dice control is possible.

What are your lifetime wins? Are they a result of luck or skill in throwing the dice if you have them. If you don't, how do you feel about selling software called "win craps?" I have never used your software before myself. But I have heard good things about it from folks who believe in controlling the dice. I have also heard good things about "the method." Do you believe that "the method" helps you win at craps too?

As usual, Ahigh, you prevaricate, prevaricate, prevaricate. You must be a Republican. Steen asked you a simple yes/no question, and, as usual, you discuss everything but answering the question. If you don't understand the question, ask him to clarify. If you understand the question, then provide a direct answer. Otherwise, you prevaricate, as is your custom, which renders your argument worthless.

Pity for you you're unaware of WinCraps by Steen. In fact, I'm surprised you're unaware. It's been a program discussed many times on this board.

Quote: beachbumbabs

I can't imagine anybody who doesn't HAVE to read this thread, like I do, is still reading this thread. Good grief, people. Tomato. Tomato. Potato. Potato. Let's call the whole thing off.

What? It seems to me that MANY people are reading this thread. As I write this, there are 2,391 views of this thread most of which happened in the last two days (there were around 700 when I jumped in) and it's flagged with 5 stars.

Ahigh posts VOLUMES of information here on a seemingly daily basis. Is none of it open to commentary? Should it just be accepted as is and remain unchallenged or is anyone interested in a debate? If he has some special status that I was unaware of, then I'll be happy to stop posting. Far be it for me to upset anyone.

Quote: Steen

What? It seems to me that MANY people are reading this thread. As I write this, there are 2,391 views of this thread most of which happened in the last two days (there were around 700 when I jumped in) and it's flagged with 5 stars.

Ahigh posts VOLUMES of information here on a seemingly daily basis. Is none of it open to commentary? Should it just be accepted as is and remain unchallenged or is anyone interested in a debate? If he has some special status that I was unaware of, then I'll be happy to stop posting. Far be it for me to upset anyone.

Actually, Steen, your contributions are very interesting and on-point. I was shooting with a shotgun, not a laser-sighted rifle. Sorry about that.

My problem is not the in-the-weeds signal, but all the umbrage noise and flipped-out sidebars. The almost-namecalling, the non-pertinent questions thrown at someone in lieu of an answer, the finger-pointing. Sorting through it to find an actual conversation is a lot of work.

Quote: beachbumbabs

Actually, Steen, your contributions are very interesting and on-point. I was shooting with a shotgun, not a laser-sighted rifle. Sorry about that.

My problem is not the in-the-weeds signal, but all the umbrage noise and flipped-out sidebars. The almost-namecalling, the non-pertinent questions thrown at someone in lieu of an answer, the finger-pointing. Sorting through it to find an actual conversation is a lot of work.

If something appears unnecessary, yet important, it's likely their true motivation.

Quote: Steen

What? It seems to me that MANY people are reading this thread. As I write this, there are 2,391 views of this thread most of which happened in the last two days (there were around 700 when I jumped in) and it's flagged with 5 stars.

Ahigh posts VOLUMES of information here on a seemingly daily basis. Is none of it open to commentary? Should it just be accepted as is and remain unchallenged or is anyone interested in a debate? If he has some special status that I was unaware of, then I'll be happy to stop posting. Far be it for me to upset anyone.

Same 5 people viewing it 200 times a day, not including fake accounts.

Quote: AxelWolf

Same 5 people viewing it 200 times a day, not including fake accounts.

I reload it 50 times per day all by myself!

Quote: Ahigh

I reload it 50 times per day all by myself!

Yea, I was not joking

Quote: Ahigh

I reload it 50 times per day all by myself!

Of course you do.

Hey, it beats working.

*shakes head, groans that NTEK is down 62% from my purchase price last year*

Quote: beachbumbabs

Actually, Steen, your contributions are very interesting and on-point.

Thank you.

Quote: beachbumbabs

I was shooting with a shotgun, not a laser-sighted rifle. Sorry about that.

No problem.

Quote: beachbumbabs

My problem is not the in-the-weeds signal, but all the umbrage noise and flipped-out sidebars. The almost-namecalling, the non-pertinent questions thrown at someone in lieu of an answer, the finger-pointing. Sorting through it to find an actual conversation is a lot of work.

Sure, I understand, but I think the same could be said of many of the threads here. Folks naturally don't agree on all things and often express it with criticism, sarcasm, ridicule, etc. I personally think some of it's natural and healthy but obviously it can get out of hand. It's good that the forum is moderated.

Quote: AxelWolf

Same 5 people viewing it 200 times a day, not including fake accounts.

Do tell - what's the average number of posters per thread here? Are you implying that scores of posters are participating in other threads? I don't think there are that many people actively posting here at any one time.

Do you feel that threads should be abandoned if they don't acquire a minimum number of posters?

I read it just to see what was going on and don't remember anything but arrogance. Faking views is just a ludicrous idea to me and don't even think there would be a rational reason for it.

Quote: MrV

Of course you do.

Hey, it beats working.

*shakes head, groans that NTEK is down 62% from my purchase price last year*

Quote: Ahigh

Did Evenbob authorize his picture taken at aria to be used? Can't be too far off besides missing the glasses and the flannel shirts.