Quick Question: Buy vs. Place in Vegas
6 and 8: Place bet always better.
5 and 9: Place bet always better, unless commission on Buy is on win only.
4 and 10: Buy bet always better.
What's the norm for commission on Buy in Vegas? Are the mostly uniform? or depends on which casino?
Stratosphere (can combine vig -- eg buy the 4 for $10 and the 10 for $10 total $21 cost up front)
Jerry's Nugget (cannot combine vig)
Joker's Wild (do not know if you can combine vig - but doubt it)
Ellis Island (do not know if you can combine vig - but doubt it)
Automatic buy (EG: $10 pays $19, $15 pays $29) -- least hassle fastest way to do this
Silverton
Red Rock
Palace Station
<others may include Stations properties>
Buy starts at $5.00 with vig on the win (requires verbal request - not automatic - uses $0.25 chips) -- all the Boyd properties downtown -- Hawaiian's favorite
Main Street Station
California Casino
Fremont Casion
Vig on the win starting at $20 to $25 (depends on casino, but most are starting at $20):
Everywhere else
If you bet for a multiple of $20, the buy on the 5 and 9 with vig up front is the same, not worse. But in general the place bet is better because your vig is not rounded up in some cases. Also, if they round down, there may be a slight advantage at $25 and $50 buy bets on the 5 and 9. But NOBODY does it. Or VERY rarely anyway, and dealers and pit crews will likely complain if you ask them about it.
Quote: NareedFWIW, check out the bubble craps machines. The rules will vary by property, but at the Plaza, 4Q and Binnion's the vig is charged on the win only. Of course these palces are also limited to 2X on odds.
as a new craps player can someone explain the difference between place and buy? I was playing last week and a guy had a buy chip on top of his bets all of the time. He also tried to pre pay vig once and the dealers were all confused and said they don't do that.
What are the difference if pay outs for each?
$10 bet on each
4/10 buy vs place
5/9 buy vs place
6/8 buy vs place
I tried to read WoO but it didn't make sense to me.
A PLACE bet involves YOUR choice of a number rather than the dice's choice but YOU pay for that privilege by getting a lower payout on Place bets.
A BUY bet involves YOUR choice of a number rather than the dice's choice AND YOUR choice to be paid the true and correct odds on the bet, which of course they usually only willing to do for a bit more money referred to as a commission. The dealers have their way of handling the commission and the Box and the Eye in the Sky will know what is going on when they see extra money going out because the dealers mark the bet with a little lamer saying "Buy".
Physically a buy bet and a place bet are positioned in the same manner, the buy lamer just means if it wins pay him the correct odds since that is what he has purchased with his commission.
When you have vig on the win (most common in Vegas) a buy bet pay different depending on how much you bet it.
$5 buy pays $10 - $1 = $9 (same as place bet)
$10 buy pays $20 - $1 = $19
$15 buy pays $30 - $1 = $29
$20 buy pays $40 - $1 = $39
$25 buy pays $50 - $1 = $49
$30 buy pays $60 - $2 = $58
$35 buy pays $70 - $2 = $68
$40 buy pays $80 - $2 = $78
$45 buy pays $90 - $2 = $88
$50 buy pays $100-$2 = $98
$55 buy pays $110-$3 = $107
$60 buy pays $120-$3 = $117
$65 buy pays $130-$4 = $126
$70 buy pays $140-$4 = $136
$75 buy pays $150-$4 = $146
$80 buy pays $160-$4 = $156
$85 buy pays $170-$5 = $165
$90 buy pays $180-$5 = $175
$95 buy pays $190-$5 = $185
$100 buy pays $200-$5 = $195
To figure out larger sized bets, you divide your bet amount by $100 and look at the pay for n times the $100 ($195 per $100 bet) plus the pay for the remainder.
So a $150 buy bet would pay $195 + $98 = $293
If you're not getting vig on the win (less common) it's not as good of a deal, and vig on the win is most common in Vegas, so this is what you really want to know for the bargains.
You want to generally get paid as much as you can just before the vig goes up. So $25, $50, and multiples of $20 beyond that, meaning $60, $80 and $100. They are going to round up typically on $75 .. not down. But SOME places WILL charge a $3 vig on a $75 buy if you ask them first up front. Most dealers charge $4 vig for a $75 buy.
I hope this helps.
Wait a sec...Quote: AhighBuy starts at $5.00 with vig on the win (requires verbal request - not automatic - uses $0.25 chips) -- all the Boyd properties downtown -- Hawaiian's favorite
Main Street Station
California Casino
Fremont Casion
These casinos use 25¢ chips? I thought Joker's Wild was the last casino in Vegas to still have them.
If these other casinos do use them, is it only for the buy commission, or can they be used elsewhere?
For example, can I make place bets in fractional units?
Quote: DJTeddyBearWait a sec...
These casinos use 25¢ chips? I thought Joker's Wild was the last casino in Vegas to still have them.
If these other casinos do use them, is it only for the buy commission, or can they be used elsewhere?
For example, can I make place bets in fractional units?
Not any more. Joker's Wild no longer uses $0.25 chips. The dealers are ECSTATIC about it too as the dice move about five times faster.
The $0.25 chips at the downtown Boyd Properties are used EXCLUSIVELY for buy bet vig-on-the-win. Verbal request REQUIRED. Nothing else except dealer bets! That is, you can throw a $0.25 hardway for the dealers, and they will book it. But that's it.
Not good for ANYTHING else.
It really is just giving in specifically to the Hawaiians who want to use their buy-four and buy-ten strategies at lower denoms (for practice, really).
I have seen buy bets go to max bets from two players at the same time at the California ($2,000 buy x2 players -- casino paid $8,000 per roll total TWICE).
Very unusual for what's always a $5 minimum table with double odds to see that sort of action.
Quote: FleaStiffStart out thinking of a PASS LINE bet...
A PLACE bet involves YOUR choice of a number rather than the dice's choice but YOU pay for that privilege by getting a lower payout on Place bets.
A BUY bet involves YOUR choice of a number rather than the dice's choice AND YOUR choice to be paid the true and correct odds on the bet, which of course they usually only willing to do for a bit more money referred to as a commission. The dealers have their way of handling the commission and the Box and the Eye in the Sky will know what is going on when they see extra money going out because the dealers mark the bet with a little lamer saying "Buy".
Physically a buy bet and a place bet are positioned in the same manner, the buy lamer just means if it wins pay him the correct odds since that is what he has purchased with his commission.
So basically they are the same bet but the buy pays better? I would understand this if you paid a commission up front but when you pay commission only on wins it makes no sense to me. Owell, I will just keep to pass line and come bets.
Quote: GWAEOwell, I will just keep to pass line and come bets.
as a matter of fact, if you just stay away from both place bets and buy bets your HE will be lower and your life will be simpler.
Quote: odiousgambitas a matter of fact, if you just stay away from both place bets and buy bets your HE will be lower and your life will be simpler.
yeah I guess I am trying to understand what is going on more so than playing them.
That is a good thing. An awareness of what is going on and what your options are is good. An awareness of the jargon is good. Just about any bet the stickman is blabbering about is bad but its good to have a rough idea of what the terms mean, but the Basic Strategy is Pass Line, odds, Come bets (a virtual passline bet), Place the six/Eight. Know those bets cold.Quote: GWAEyeah I guess I am trying to understand what is going on more so than playing them.
Quote: AhighNot any more. Joker's Wild no longer uses $0.25 chips. The dealers are ECSTATIC about it too as the dice move about five times faster.
The $0.25 chips at the downtown Boyd Properties are used EXCLUSIVELY for buy bet vig-on-the-win. Verbal request REQUIRED. Nothing else except dealer bets! That is, you can throw a $0.25 hardway for the dealers, and they will book it. But that's it.
.
Bummer....
What is the minimum pass line then?
I loved driving there to play dollar craps.
Quote: AhighThe $0.25 chips at the downtown Boyd Properties are used EXCLUSIVELY for buy bet vig-on-the-win. Verbal request REQUIRED.
Does that mean the vig on a $25 buy 4 is $1.25?
Quote: slackyhackyWhat is the minimum pass line then?
I loved driving there to play dollar craps.
Was still a buck when I was there in February.
Quote: MathExtremistDoes that mean the vig on a $25 buy 4 is $1.25?
No, and even the $15 buy bets cost $1 IIRC. I argued for some time that it should be $0.75. I'm sure SOMEONE would let you pay $0.75 because very few people know and/or take advantage of this rule and fewer people know these details I know because I ask a lot of questions. These house rules are anything but logical. They (more often) just make them up to be convenient for themselves (the house) rather than the player, and often even the dealers are annoyed with rules that are difficult to understand the exceptions.
Quote: odiousgambitas a matter of fact, if you just stay away from both place bets and buy bets your HE will be lower and your life will be simpler.
Only if you either bet some amount other than $25 or $50 or otherwise bet odds bets as well. And while the vig may be more complex, the rules for winning and losing are simpler on the buy bets, and the pay multiple is better as well. Most bets (on the craps felt) have a higher edge to offset the volatility of higher pay multiples. The green-chip-buy with Vig on the win is sort of a unique animal in that regard.
