Laying Odds vs. Betting More (Through the DC.)

Inspired by this post....
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Quote: RaleighCraps

Even though it is 0% HE bet. My DC or DP bet on the other hand, has the advantage, AND is getting paid 1:1. Sure, I am a 1:2 underdog on the come out roll, but if I get past that, I now have the distinct advantage. So, I decided to not bother laying any odds, and instead, I just put the total amount I would have bet down as b getting paid 1:1. Sure, I am a 1:2 underdog on the come out roll, but if I get past that, I now have the distinct advantage. So, I decided to not bother laying any odds, and instead, I just put the total amount I would have bet down as the DP or DC. So, $25 or $50 DP, and just see how it plays out. I may add one DC at times. So, you only are really sweating the come out roll. After that, you have the edge AND you are getting paid 1:1.

Is the only real disadvantage the roll while your bet is in the Don't Come?
At minimum, my $5 bet, and laying $10 odds on a 4-10 would win $10 total (with $15 wagered) Why not bet $15 to win $15 instead? If a 4-10 comes up, I'm losing $15 anyways.
Is the money sitting in the DC really the only thing to sweat about? Is it worth winning $5 less, to go with a lower wager and laying odds, or risking more money than you can win?

Is the advantage in the 6-8 because of the 5:6 odds? Because you win more money, compared to your wager?


I gotta be missing something important here?
Thanks for listening to my dumb questions. :-)

Yes the disadvantage to the Don't Come bet is in the come out roll. This is because once you get past the come out roll you are looking for a seven which is the most likely number to appear. That being said you are still better off laying odds instead of putting it all on the don't pass line because the odds are paid out as true odds (0% HE) while putting it on the don't pass line allows it to be affected by the HE.

As for your pass line question you should win quite a bit more. A $5 pass line bet with $10 odds will net you a total win of $25 not including your original bet (so you'll get $40 back). On the pass line 4/10 pays 2:1, 5/9 pays 3:2 and 6/8 pays 6:5.

Quote: SkittleCar1

Inspired by this post....

RC really said all that?
so he hates making 0% HE bets and would rather try to max out a 1.4% HE bet first and skip the odds totally?

I see nothing wrong with that if it makes one *feel better* playing that way
That also cuts down the probability of coming out ahead (winning) after X number of bets resolved.

I think the *feel better* is worth much much more than winning

Quote: SkittleCar1

I gotta be missing something important here?
Thanks for listening to my dumb questions. :-)

yes you are
re-do your math and factor in the chances of winning and losing
the dc or dp 4 or 10 example has a winning probability at that point in time of 2/3

all don't bets win and lose in the come out and point round

so do consider the complete journey it takes from start to finish
and not just one roll here and one roll there

because one can also show some math why you would "have the advantage" of saying "no action" for the points of 5,6,8 and 9
because those bets have a higher losing probability at that point than does a 4 or 10.

if it feels better to you, do it
after some time and you see your bankroll going down too fast
maybe it still will feel good

RC should WinCraps
player a (RC)
making always $50 Don't bets, say 300 of them. Have 1 million sims run (on second thought 300 bets is way to few. make it 1000 bets)
then
player b (Sally)
making $10 with 345X lay odds and see who loses the most money and how much is lost on average.
both players would have the same average bet

This can actually be calculated exactly with variance but
no one here really cares about those opinions

I would bet that player b would feel about 30 times better than player a
why?

what do you think?
is Playing Craps all about how you feel?

I play now the don't side ($5 mostly the don't pass but sometimes the don't come - depends on how I feel)
and lay single odds ($6). I have so much fun playing Craps this way.

I still play scared, that must be why I am up lifetime playing Craps
(a $5 5 point fire bet win also helps)

Sally

Quote: geoff

Yes the disadvantage to the Don't Come bet is in the come out roll.

The Seven is the most likely number to be rolled at each and every roll of the dice. So once you get past that first hurdle, the come out roll, the Don't Bet is favored because each subsequent roll is more likely to be a Seven than anything else and the Seven will win the bet for you.

I often find I'm holding my breath on that come out roll, but resume breathing once I hear the call.

If I'm on the Pass Line its great to know that the most likely roll, Seven, will be a winner for me but its not going to happen often enough to be anything other than the casino's enticement to play the game, because once a point is established, seven remains more likely to be rolled than any other number.

For Geoff. I'm not playing the Pass/Don't Pass lines.

Quote: SkittleCar1

I'm not playing the Pass/Don't Pass lines.

is that because you think the pass line is different from the come?
or
the don't pass is different from the don't come?
if not

There must be a reason?
Please share
Sally

I'm still new at this, and use to strictly make pass/don't pass bets. No come or don't come bets. So naturally, I'd win or lose on whether the point was made, or a 7 out. (And always seemed to be on the wrong end of it.)
I started make up to two Don't Come Bets after the point is established. So now I was winning on a 7 out. And I don't lose if the point is made. My bets through the DC stay up. And even better if I catch a 7 on a come out roll, the DC points still pay. It has worked for me. Will it work again? Maybe not?

Quote: SkittleCar1

It has worked for me. :-)

still new is nice.
has worked is nice too.
what happens when it stops working for you?

so it really comes down to the way you feel is why you make certain bets.
that is great!

then why ask questions about it and show some fuzzy math?
because of what RC posted?

to burst your bubble

here are the winning probabilities (rounded) for
pass line: 49.3%
don't pass: 49.3%
come: 49.3%
don't come: 49.3%

They do wear different colors
Sally

Quote: mustangsally

RC really said all that?
so he hates making 0% HE bets and would rather try to max out a 1.4% HE bet first and skip the odds totally?

Yes, RC really did write that. However, the quoted post also started off with this as the first line,

"This answer is NOT based on math, but I have found it to be a more acceptable way for me to play the dark side."

Unfortunately, that line was not included in the quoted text that starts this thread.

First, from the DP or DC, I NEVER call "No Action" on any number. That has to be the single worst move any craps player could ever make. I don't like the 6 or 8, but I have the advantage, so why give it away.

So now we get to laying the odds, or the 'free' bets.
I have a $10 DP bet, and the point is 10. I can now lay $60, to win $30
(at Beau Rivage it is 10x, so I can lay $200 to win $100, but let's stick with the more normal 3-4-5x)
I have $70 at risk, trying to win $40. But hey, I am rooting for the most common number to show up, and in this case it is 2:1.

Yes, I understand the math says this is the way to play, but here's the deal. I have $70 in play, to only win $40, and I am sweating EVERY throw of the dice, knowing I am laying $70 to win $40.

Instead, if I just put $70 on the DP, I am sweating only the Come Out roll. If I get past that roll (I am an 8:3 underdog), then I now have the advantage, AND, I am getting paid 1:1 whereas the real odds should pay me 5:6, or 2:3, or 1:2.

Over a few shooters, getting paid 70:70 every time, instead of 40:70, or 50:70, or 60:70 adds up For the short duration that makes up that session. AND HERE WE GO AGAIN...... Yes, over a million rolls, I will lose more money playing this way, but then again, I will never see 1 million rolls.

I took a cruise in March. One night I could do nothing right. Was down around $600 playing right side. Table was so bad all the other players left. I was the only one there. I decided to shoot from the Don't. Made all my money back. I was so bad, I must have had about 7 or 8 straight 7-outs in a row. Funny thing was, the dealers were all rooting for me to get my money back.
( Earlier in the day, I was on the same table and crew, by myself, playing Right side, and had bet $32 across for the dealers on the other end of the table so that dealer would have something to do.) Had the dealer press their bets 1 unit each time it hit. I had a very good roll and the dealers dropped $375 in toke box at the end of the roll, so they were really rooting for me that night.

My point to this story was, if I had been doing min bets, and laying odds, I would not have made all $600 back as fast as I did. I would have needed a few more winning 7 outs. By having my money out there, getting paid 1:1 no matter what number was the point, it created higher wins. The downside was, I put a much larger amount at risk on the Come out 7-11 winner, but it was at risk for only 1 roll. And that is a gamble that I am willing to take, even if the math says otherwise.

Sally,
Try this on WinCraps. Create the Autobet so that it runs for 300 or so rolls (roughly 4 hours of play, which is more a less a typical session for me).
With the new WinCraps, you can have one player playing DP for $70, and the other player can play $10 DP and $60 lay odds.
Run the autobet, and see who comes out ahead. That was one day's play.
I will play how many times in a casino in my life? 100, 200 ? Let's go with 200x (I should be so lucky).

So now we can run the Autobet 200x. For those 200, how many times did the odds player come out ahead of the no odds?
That is what my real life experience is going to be like. It is just a random walk, nothing more, nothing less.

Of course, if we then repeat this scenario 1000 times, well now we can be fairly sure the odds bettor will come out ahead, since we are now getting into roll numbers that are large enough for the math to prove out, but that will not be my life experience. My life experience will be the random walk.

Quote: RaleighCraps

but let's stick with the more normal 3-4-5x)
I have $70 at risk, trying to win $40. But hey, I am rooting for the most common number to show up, and in this case it is 2:1.

Yes, I understand the math says this is the way to play, but here's the deal. I have $70 in play, to only win $40, and I am sweating EVERY throw of the dice, knowing I am laying $70 to win $40.

But not every time do you have $70 at risk. only 2/3 of the bets on average, or do you not factor in the $10 bets that do get resolved on the come out roll.

but you also play the pass and all the place numbers too.
maybe what 160 to win $35. you play scared just like me but with more money

Quote: RaleighCraps

Instead, if I just put $70 on the DP, I am sweating only the Come Out roll. If I get past that roll (I am an 8:3 underdog), then I now have the advantage, AND, I am getting paid 1:1 whereas the real odds should pay me 5:6, or 2:3, or 1:2.

what about sweating the high expected loss for that one bet.
I mean 5X higher than just a $10 don't bet and odds
5 times higher, higher, higher

Quote: RaleighCraps

Over a few shooters, getting paid 70:70 every time, instead of 40:70, or 50:70, or 60:70 adds up For the short duration that makes up that session. AND HERE WE GO AGAIN...... Yes, over a million rolls, I will lose more money playing this way, but then again, I will never see 1 million rolls.

then try just 1000 rolls. your expected loss is still 5 times higher than $10 with 345x lay odds

Quote: RaleighCraps

Sally,
Try this on WinCraps. Create the Autobet so that it runs for 300 or so rolls (roughly 4 hours of play, which is more a less a typical session for me).
With the new WinCraps, you can have one player playing DP for $70, and the other player can play $10 DP and $60 lay odds.

The DP must be a flat $50 for the two players to have the same average bet
all this can easily be calculated for any number of rolls, both the expected loss and the standard deviation.

If 1 million players played your way ($50 DP bets) and I million just went $10 with 345x lay odds
your followers would average a net loss 5 times greater than my followers.
sure we would both have winners and losers.
more winners on my side and way more losers on your side

no simulation required
the math is really that simple

but you need to start out with average bets instead of money at risk

I say it is great you have some real results you are happy with.
remember too that one session here and a few more session there is just one large session.
if you fail to grasp this simple concept of independent events that remains your problem and all I can say is to just have fun.

I mean, you have a new craps player asking about how you say to play.

my opinion is he has a way better chance of having an average session loss higher than just laying the odds.
it still comes down to what makes you feel better as you play?
your experiences point to that
you want to lose 5x more than someone laying 345x (I only bet $5 with $6 lay)
and have more fun doing it, that is great!
It is your money to gamble with.

Sally

Quote: RaleighCraps

Yes, RC really did write that. However, the quoted post also started off with this as the first line,

"This answer is NOT based on math, but I have found it to be a more acceptable way for me to play the dark side."

Unfortunately, that line was not included in the quoted text that starts this thread.

Sorry, my point was to show the strategy.

Quote: mustangsally

Quote: RaleighCraps

but let's stick with the more normal 3-4-5x)
I have $70 at risk, trying to win $40. But hey, I am rooting for the most common number to show up, and in this case it is 2:1.

Yes, I understand the math says this is the way to play, but here's the deal. I have $70 in play, to only win $40, and I am sweating EVERY throw of the dice, knowing I am laying $70 to win $40.

But not every time do you have $70 at risk. only 2/3 of the bets on average, or do you not factor in the $10 bets that do get resolved on the come out roll.

You are correct. I did not factor in the number of bets that get resolved on the Come Out roll, so making a higher bet with no odds would result in a higher total amount wagered per session.

Quote: mustangsally

but you also play the pass and all the place numbers too.
maybe what 160 to win $35. you play scared just like me but with more money.

I think you have missed 95% of my posts where I confirm I am a diehard RIGHT side bettor. I will only go Dark if the table has been really bad for quite a while. I just don't have a lot of fun on the Dark, although it seems I mostly come out ahead that way. I generally want to win 4-6x my buy-in amount, and that can rarely be done from the Dark. If I am playing Dark, I may Place a number that seems to be coming up frequently, but that is it. I see no point in playing the game if all you are doing is taking both sides of the action across the board.

Quote: mustangsally

what about sweating the high expected loss for that one bet.
I mean 5X higher than just a $10 don't bet and odds
5 times higher, higher, higher

Yes, higher bet at risk, for 1 roll. After that, I have the better end of the deal until the wage is resolved. I get paid 1:1 when I will have the advantage at 6:5, 3:2, or 2:1 (my favorite).
Surely you have played at tables where very few bets were being resolved on the Come Out roll. I can't be the only one to see this happen. For that matter, I am a craps rolling machine on Come Out rolls. I am constantly killing myself on the PL.

Quote: mustangsally

then try just 1000 rolls. your expected loss is still 5 times higher than $10 with 345x lay odds

The DP must be a flat $50 for the two players to have the same average bet
all this can easily be calculated for any number of rolls, both the expected loss and the standard deviation.

If 1 million players played your way ($50 DP bets) and I million just went $10 with 345x lay odds
your followers would average a net loss 5 times greater than my followers.
sure we would both have winners and losers.
more winners on my side and way more losers on your side

The casino is booking all of the action, on all of their tables, so the math will work perfectly for them, because they will see the effect of large numbers. The action they see in a weekend, is what I will probably never add up to in my lifetime. So you are correct. The casino will certainly make more money this way. And collectively, all of the players like me will lose more. But individually, some players will make out way better, and some players will lose way more.
If you knew your session result was going to come out exactly as the math says, would you play? If you had no chance to overcome the odds for a few lucky rolls, and actually win money? I love craps, but I would not play if I had ZERO chance that I might be able to win. But the fact is, it is pretty close to a coin flip as to whether or not I win or lose money.

The casino will love me, and btw, they comp me based on the full $50 bet (using your number), instead of just being a $10 player with no rating. And that means free rooms, and meals.

Quote: mustangsally

but you need to start out with average bets instead of money at risk

Again, this is where the math of the game, and the reality of the game, diverge. Very few people care to know what their average bet is. But, they know when they lost $70 on a roll. And they certainly know when they are putting up $70 to win $70, or putting up $70 to only win $40.
I have already conceded this is not the mathematically optimal way to play. But giving that it means sweating 1 roll, versus many, and that after the come out roll, I enjoy a big edge over the house for the rest of the rolls, I find it to be a more fun way to play. And that is what many people are looking for.

Quote: mustangsally

I say it is great you have some real results you are happy with.
remember too that one session here and a few more session there is just one large session.
if you fail to grasp this simple concept of independent events that remains your problem and all I can say is to just have fun.

I did not say the sessions were not additive. It is obvious they are the same as one big session. What I said was, all of my sessions added together will never be enough rolls to ensure the math works out (like it will for the casino who has billions of rolls). So, in the same way that I will almost never lose 1.414% of my PL bets, I will also probably not lose 5x more playing the DP this way. I will lose way less, or lose way more.

Quote: mustangsally

I mean, you have a new craps player asking about how you say to play.

my opinion is he has a way better chance of having an average session loss higher than just laying the odds.
it still comes down to what makes you feel better as you play?
your experiences point to that
you want to lose 5x more than someone laying 345x (I only bet $5 with $6 lay)
and have more fun doing it, that is great!
It is your money to gamble with.

If a new player asked me about my DP play, I would tell them that DP with odds is mathematically speaking the best way to play. I would then say I play my way, because I like being at a disadvantage for just one roll, and then enjoying my edge over the house for the remaining rolls. I would certainly not try and convince anyone my way is better. I just find it more fun.
During the play, if I am losing Come Out roll bets, the new player will just laugh at me (rightfully so). But, if very few bets are coming down to Come Out rolls, and I keep getting paid more for the same bets on the table?

Isn't craps exciting? So many ways to play, and all of them eventually just make money for the casino. But there are so many ways we can all decide on how we want to make our donation, and stand side by side while we do so.
Internally I snicker at all of the people betting the horn. Don't they know any math? Don't they realize how stupid of a bet they are making? And then the string of horn numbers hit, and the idiot pockets the $750 they just cleared, while I am calculating my losses. That usually brings me back to earth.

Quote: RaleighCraps

I did not say the sessions were not additive. It is obvious they are the same as one big session.
What I said was, all of my sessions added together will never be enough rolls to ensure the math works out (like it will for the casino who has billions of rolls).

sure it does.
Just 1000 lifetime dice rolls will be enough to produce
a very nice normal distribution with a mean (expected loss) and standard deviation

here is an example for all you believers that say and believe
you never will play enough lifetime rolls to see a normal distribution (in other words, for the math to play out)
Craps is NOT Video Poker!

Sally says the math does play out and it is so damn impressive!
pass line with 345x odds (green)
pass line with 10x odds (red)

1 bet

5 bets

20 bets

50 bets


Oh, look!
by 170 rolls the math has played out

"Houston
we have a normal curve, only 170 dice rolls"

"but all craps players know the math never plays out in the short run"

"give that player a lollipop"

Quote: RaleighCraps

So, in the same way that I will almost never lose 1.414% of my PL bets,

but you do every 71 resolved wagers at 1 in 10.6 per 71 wagers rate
it happens every day for all pass line players
on average of 240 rolls.

and they all say it does not - the math never plays out in the short run
hehe

problem is you do not even know or understand what actually happens over N bets made

that is really the sad part for all craps players
they all think they know the game, but in reality have no clue what actually happens
scream and yell all you want
it will not and can not change the fact that the math does play out even in the very short sessions that keep adding up and up and up.

It is a result from wearing blinders IMO

Quote: RaleighCraps

I will also probably not lose 5x more playing the DP this way. I will lose way less, or lose way more.

way less or way more for your one lifetime session. That is what standard deviation shows for the normal curve.

I do agree with you that playing any betting system at Craps because it makes you feel better in the short run is great!

hope everyone ends up in the right side of the curve
more fun thinking that way too

in summary:
The math always plays out in every short session, even the short session that is one lifetime session

of course, just my opinion
no one can actually prove this as I just did. hehe
and I did it without using any math! (well, the math is in the photos)
yes!
Sally

added: I did not use Excel for this photo shoot
I gave my Excel the day off

Quote: mustangsally

they all think they know the game, but in reality have no clue what actually happens

That's a pretty broad statement there. I've met crap players who don't think they know the game.

I don't disagree with the generalization that craps players experience fantasies. But so does the gambler, and without fantasy, there is no entertainment.

Even wise people enjoy fantasies. You're possibly fantasizing in this broad sweeping generalization, if you think about it objectively for a moment.

Nice charts.

Quote: mustangsally

Oh, look!
by 170 rolls the math has played out

"Houston
we have a normal curve, only 170 dice rolls"

"but all craps players know the math never plays out in the short run"

"give that player a lollipop"

"But Sally
You only play craps one roll at a time.
and when you bet $10 on the pass line and it wins, the math did not play out. You did not lose 1.414% of your $10 bet.
As a matter of fact, if you lost that one bet of $10 how in the hell did you lose $10 when the math says you should only lose 1.41% of that $10"

"Houston, give that player two lollipops"

no math lesson today on averages
someone ate all the apples
Sally

Quote: Ahigh

That's a pretty broad statement there.

the complete statement is:
"and they all say it does not - the math never plays out in the short run
hehe
problem is you do not even know or understand what actually happens over N bets made
that is really the sad part for all craps players
they all think they know the game, but in reality have no clue what actually happens
scream and yell all you want
it will not and can not change the fact that the math does play out even in the very short sessions that keep adding up and up and up."

I was never any good at writing English. Fat fingers

Quote: Ahigh

Nice charts.

come on now
they look awful
no color at all
I said I gave my Excel the day off


Those charts might actually even contain incorrect data
maybe I just made them up
to prove my point about the math playing out in very short sessions

mean and standard deviation is included

the math never plays out in the short run
the math never plays out in the short run
the math never plays out in the short run

Quote: RaleighCraps

Isn't craps exciting?

no
I say it is only fun.

Having sex with at least another person is exciting and fun.
(as opposed to having sex with yourself, that is just fun)

Sally

Quote: RaleighCraps

I just don't have a lot of fun on the Dark, although it seems I mostly come out ahead that way.

go figure

Quote: RaleighCraps

I generally want to win 4-6x my buy-in amount,

who would not want to win 4-6x my buy-in amount

Quote: RaleighCraps

and that can rarely be done from the Dark.

It can rarely be done from the right side! unless you bet big.


My uncle has a friend that makes across lay bets when the table gets "cold"
It is cold way more often than it is hot IMO

$100 lay #s and $120 on 5/9
the other night the table turned from choppy to ice cold and he said watch this

First roll a 6
OK lost $100. came back with $200 Lay 6
next roll a 3
next roll a 7 out (That 3rd roll has the highest single roll of any for any shooter to 7out on. Go with it!)

He made good money on that shooter
started over

next shoooter set a poiint of 8.
Lost $100 so $200 on the Lay8
Bamn
7out
Yes!
Table is cold!

Next shoooooter (all shooters still betting the pass line. they were not having fun doing this!?)
same bets
7 winner!
Yes!

he turned his $2000 buy-in into $7000 over the next 13 or so shooters. I stopped counting as all the other players left the table losers playing the RIGHT way.
One shoooooooooter took him for a break even round
But it can easily (Laying the numbers) double bankrolls on a cold table faster than placing all the numbers on a hot table

I did the math on it too
for my eyes only
Sally

Quote: mustangsally

no
I say it is only fun.

Having sex with at least another person is exciting and fun.
(as opposed to having sex with yourself, that is just fun)

Sally

Does inviting more than one other person double the excitement, or is it exponential?

Quote: mustangsally

go figure
who would not want to win 4-6x my buy-in amount
It can rarely be done from the right side! unless you bet big.


My uncle has a friend that makes across lay bets when the table gets "cold"
It is cold way more often than it is hot IMO

$100 lay #s and $120 on 5/9
the other night the table turned from choppy to ice cold and he said watch this

First roll a 6
OK lost $100. came back with $200 Lay 6
next roll a 3
next roll a 7 out (That 3rd roll has the highest single roll of any for any shooter to 7out on. Go with it!)

He made good money on that shooter
started over

next shoooter set a poiint of 8.
Lost $100 so $200 on the Lay8
Bamn
7out
Yes!
Table is cold!

Next shoooooter (all shooters still betting the pass line. they were not having fun doing this!?)
same bets
7 winner!
Yes!

he turned his $2000 buy-in into $7000 over the next 13 or so shooters. I stopped counting as all the other players left the table losers playing the RIGHT way.
One shoooooooooter took him for a break even round
But it can easily (Laying the numbers) double bankrolls on a cold table faster than placing all the numbers on a hot table

I did the math on it too
for my eyes only
Sally

Martingale laying all the numbers?

Yeah, make some money most of the time... until one shooter wipes you out.

How high will he go if a shooter keeps hitting numbers?

Quote: AxiomOfChoice

Martingale laying all the numbers?

Yeah, make some money most of the time... until one shooter wipes you out.

How high will he go if a shooter keeps hitting numbers?

YOU GOTTA BET BIG TO LOSE BIG!

How many conversations (on this forum) end up with something along the lines of "yeah, but you lose."

LOL.

It's like I say when I'm playing, "the game is rigged!"

It always get a chuckle.

Quote: AxiomOfChoice

Martingale laying all the numbers?
Yeah, make some money most of the time... until one shooter wipes you out.
How high will he go if a shooter keeps hitting numbers?

No Marty.
He would stop at $200 on the Lay4 and 10 and sometimes not even bet them.
The inside Lays can go up less than a Marty and the largest bet was $600.

He claims he only bets this way when the table goes "ice cold" but could not say how he knew it was in that state.
He also bets big on the pass and place bets too.

It was fun watching this because the other players did not know why he won all of his bets at the same time, even on a come out 7.
The dealers got a good laugh from that one after telling a few other players his bets win on any 7 rolled.

Sally

Quote: mustangsally

Having sex with at least another person is exciting and fun.
(as opposed to having sex with yourself, that is just fun)

Sally

HAHAHAHAHA!

(I need less fun and more excitement in my life...that's for sure)

RC is dead set in these matters, there's no getting to him with the math.

RC, next blog post will have some darkside action ... hopefully today ... on my last gambling jaunt, I could do no wrong.

Quote: odiousgambit

RC is dead set in these matters, there's no getting to him with the math.

RC, next blog post will have some darkside action ... hopefully today ... on my last gambling jaunt, I could do no wrong.

My writing skills are too dismal to truly convey my points, but at least the 'dead set' part has come through. :-)

Since I am a Right side player 95% of the time, this is a discussion I should have bowed out of a long time ago. But you are correct, this is one time where I will continue to ignore the math. I don't dispute the math, I just choose to ignore it.

Oh wait. I guess it is more than one time though, since I also choose to Buy the 4/10, and Buy the 5/9 in Mississippi, and of course, Place the 6/8. And finally, I must confess to a few Field bets, but I do try to only do this on a table that pays 3x on the 12. I do have some level on sense.

I don't play craps with maximum efficiency, but I have a lot of fun, and have managed a few huge wins. Of course, I've taken a fair share of beatings too, but then we all will, 'over the long run', won't we?

Now that retirement has destroyed my discretionary income, if I do make it to a craps game, I will have to play much more conservatively. Perhaps I will have to become a more committed Darksider. Then again, I am only a couple of day trades away from having some good craps stake money....... ;-)

This past weekend, I did try playing a couple more units on the DC without laying odds, got burned a few 7-11's, but for the most part, it evened out for me vs laying the odds.

Quote: SkittleCar1

This past weekend, I did try playing a couple more units on the DC without laying odds, got burned a few 7-11's, but for the most part, it evened out for me vs laying the odds.

I play this way because I feel less stress after the Come Out roll, knowing I have a distinct advantage on my whole wager. Did you experience anything similar, or was the feeling the same as when you just bet min and Lay Odds?

Once I got through the come out, it was hard not to be giddy. Haha.