RaleighCraps
RaleighCraps
Joined: Feb 20, 2010
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March 6th, 2014 at 6:05:13 PM permalink
We all remember the 7 out that hits the hands, but my last trip, I hit a player's hands that went into the table really late. I had thrown about 8 times at this point already. Both dice bounce off his hands, roll around, and "Winner, x Winner, pay the line". So, it works both ways, but we only remember the 7 outs the most.

But, you are correct, it is a serious lack of etiquette, and craps is really more about the social game, so a loss of etiquette is to be mourned.

When I was a newish player (I had played enough to know better, but I was in a hurry to get into the game), the tables were mostly full, but I saw a spot on a table, and I squeezed in, and made a quick bet with chips that were in my hand. The dice pushed out, and since I was still getting settled, I was paying no attention, until the player on my immediate left made a sudden motion. It was then that I realized I had made the cardinal sin of squeezing in against the shooter. Naturally, "7 out". I had to leave the table, or I would have been lynched. They were all REALLY mad at me. I will NEVER make that mistake again.

My worst hands story happened at Paris. Lady (term used loosely, since I'm pretty sure the B word is banned) new to the game is being instructed by the base dealer, but she is slow getting bets in, or tries to change her bet while I am throwing. After 3 near misses the stick pushes the dice to me, and I am just looking at the lady to make sure she is done betting. Stick tells me "throw the dice", in a condescending tone, which was totally uncalled for. I replied, "I will when the hands get out of the way". Instead of letting it go, this jerk replies,"You shoot the dice when I send them to you". So now I reply, "Well, don't send the dice until the other end is ready." His stupid retort was, "Not my job to watch their hands".
So, now I am seething inside, but calm outside, and I figured I just saved about $30 in tip money that won't get handed out. Meanwhile, the B at the other end, finds it amusing that her hands are causing an issue, and appear to be messing with me, so she intentionally starts putting her hands out there as I am throwing. I say nothing, but I am watching, and on the next throw, I hit her hand on purpose, not a fastball, but it was enough to hurt. She quickly recoiled, and looks at me. I caught her eye and said, "hurts, doesn't it?", and then looked down to my chips so there would be no reply. The guy next to me snickered. After I 7'd out, I colored up and changed tables. Life's too short to play on a table with that kind of interaction.
Always borrow money from a pessimist; They don't expect to get paid back ! Be yourself and speak your thoughts. Those who matter won't mind, and those that mind, don't matter!
AcesAndEights
AcesAndEights
Joined: Jan 5, 2012
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March 6th, 2014 at 7:58:04 PM permalink
Quote: AlanMendelson

It may be a superstitition but do you want to be that guy who bought in when the next roll was a 7-out?
Do you want to be the guy whose hands touched the dice when reaching for chips and there was a 7-out?

Craps is supposed to be an enjoyable game. Gambling is supposed to be recreational and enjoyable. I will do what is necessary to be sure I have a good time, and others will also have a good time. And if that means following superstitions then yes I will follow superstititions.

If the table thinks that after making five points on the fire bet that if I turn counter clockwise three times before the next come out roll, I will turn counter clockwise three times.


While I stand by my earlier comment about the chances of a 7 equaling 1/6 regardless of the circumstances, I respect your desire to respect tradition and etiquette at the craps table.
"So drink gamble eat f***, because one day you will be dust." -ontariodealer
AlanMendelson
AlanMendelson
Joined: Oct 5, 2011
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March 6th, 2014 at 8:56:50 PM permalink
Quote: AcesAndEights

While I stand by my earlier comment about the chances of a 7 equaling 1/6 regardless of the circumstances, I respect your desire to respect tradition and etiquette at the craps table.



You are correct: the chances of a 7 are always 1/6 despite what happens at the table. I just don't want to be the "something" that happens at the table.

And the rest of you shouldn't be that "something" either.

It's very easy to say on a message board that bad etiquette means nothing... anyone hear about a player followed to their car by a couple of angry players?

Anyway, I have an "update." I got a call from another player at the table:

Apparantly the base dealer who pushed the chips to the new player later said at the table that he wanted to call a "no roll" but he said he couldn't get the words out in time, before the stick man made the call. While he said he did nothing wrong and he did not fear that other player's complaint to the casino GM, he conceded that he shouldnt have pushed out the chips at that exact time, and left them in the middle of the back wall instead of closer to the new player who was actually in the corner. Had the player not had to reach so far he would not have fumbled picking up the chips.
SFB
SFB
Joined: Dec 20, 2010
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March 6th, 2014 at 9:27:08 PM permalink
Alan:

I read your commentary on your blog.

Why did you throw the dice?

All that stuff going on, and at your aiming "place" and then you threw the dice...

That isn't "table procedure being violated" its someone not paying attention.

???

SFB
TerribleTom
TerribleTom
Joined: Feb 18, 2014
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March 6th, 2014 at 9:29:40 PM permalink
I don't always wait for a new shooter but I do always wait for the point to settle.

Buying in when the puck is on seems bad form.
AlanMendelson
AlanMendelson
Joined: Oct 5, 2011
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March 6th, 2014 at 11:37:57 PM permalink
Quote: SFB

Alan:

Why did you throw the dice?



I goofed, and I shouldn't have. But I was concentrating so much that I didn't look down the table and when I did the dice were leaving my fingers.

I had been rolling for almost a half hour. I had made three different points, plus I had many numbers in between passes, plus some come out naturals. I got caught by the "rhythm" of everything going great.

This was a $10 table and bets were pressed up to $100 per number by some players. Yeah, I got careless -- complacent.

As I wrote on my forum -- I also made a mistake.
FleaStiff
FleaStiff
Joined: Oct 19, 2009
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March 7th, 2014 at 4:57:23 AM permalink
Quote: odiousgambit

What you describe is not the worst I've seen, this business of immediately sending the dice back out can be nuts.
Frankly, I don't seriously contend that hitting hands or chips matters at all. I agree it can be a violation of etiquette though.

The BJ dealer has to smile, she has to bare her breasts (well, most of them), she has to smile, she has to shuffle, she has to chat, she has to watch her chip tray, she has to do alot, but that darned house edge only applies when she is dealing. Same thing with the dice crew, they've got a lot to do but the darned house edge only applies when the dice are in motion. Particularly at my level of play, etiquette long ago gave way to bean counter demands. Thats the way it is. Get used to it. Don't long for the days of old. They are long gone. Benny Binion is dead. He is spinning in his grave at what he sees but there is nothing you can do to grant him peace. The dice have to keep moving now. So just pick up 'em and throw them, even if you and stick are running over the base dealer at the other end of the table who are doing some sort of buyin and have their hands all over the place. If the stick pushes the dice to you, ... you shoot.
RonC
RonC
Joined: Jan 18, 2010
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March 7th, 2014 at 5:09:57 AM permalink
Quote: FleaStiff

The BJ dealer has to smile, she has to bare her breasts (well, most of them), she has to smile, she has to shuffle, she has to chat, she has to watch her chip tray, she has to do alot, but that darned house edge only applies when she is dealing. Same thing with the dice crew, they've got a lot to do but the darned house edge only applies when the dice are in motion. Particularly at my level of play, etiquette long ago gave way to bean counter demands. Thats the way it is. Get used to it. Don't long for the days of old. They are long gone. Benny Binion is dead. He is spinning in his grave at what he sees but there is nothing you can do to grant him peace. The dice have to keep moving now. So just pick up 'em and throw them, even if you and stick are running over the base dealer at the other end of the table who are doing some sort of buyin and have their hands all over the place. If the stick pushes the dice to you, ... you shoot.



I get it, but I am not shooting until the dealer at the far end at least finishes paying the winners from the last roll. I know they are pushed for rolls per whatever but they aren't going to run over my fun with their bean counter's desires. If you want to be fast, get some dealers who can run the table efficiently. This means both base dealers need to know how to pay the bets and the box and stick have to do their job. It isn't simply pushing the dice out that makes the game move faster.

If they want to take the dice away from me, that is fine. Heck, they may even be doing me a favor!! When I have the dice, the game moves at a deliberate pace, if the dealers can do the same. Not 100 mph, but we move pretty quick. It is usually the dealers and their lack of control of the game that causes the issues; not the speed in which I pick up and chuck the dice.
AZDuffman
AZDuffman
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
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March 7th, 2014 at 5:20:45 AM permalink
Quote: odiousgambit


Playing with Teddys last Sunday, I noted he calls out "Hands!" pretty loud if it is time for him to toss and it's evident some folks on the other end are still fumbling around with something. Teddy didn't seem to set the dice and lobbed the dice pretty high, so it couldnt have been for any reason other than to avoid something that ticks a lot of players off. I've decided to emulate him on this.



DICE OUT, WATCH YOUR MITTENS, KITTENS!
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
SanchoPanza
SanchoPanza
Joined: May 10, 2010
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March 7th, 2014 at 6:10:17 AM permalink
Quote: RaleighCraps

Stick tells me "throw the dice", in a condescending tone, which was totally uncalled for. I replied, "I will when the hands get out of the way". Instead of letting it go, this jerk replies,"You shoot the dice when I send them to you". So now I reply, "Well, don't send the dice until the other end is ready." His stupid retort was, "Not my job to watch their hands".

Watching players' hands may not be in the dealers' manuals, but it surely ought to be in whatever common sense they have. As a Don't Come bettor, I customarily stand as close to the base dealer as possible. If the stick and base are speeding up because they're under pressure to make rolls per hour, because they are not used to handling the don'ts or some other reason that should not be a factor, the loud and clear message to me as a player is to get lost. It's not very useful or much fun to keep playing at a table where you're not being treated correctly.

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