Is it the player's responsibility to make sure his/her bet is placed properly?
Quote: speedycrapSay, I place $30 on six but the dealer puts the money on 8. And a six is rolled, should I get paid???
Depends on situation:
1) The dealer books what you tell him and he verifies it and places the number requested.
2) On the comeout roll shooter rolls a 6 and you have a passline bet with odds, then dealer will verify and move your place bet to the 8. (many will do this automatically. (6 to the 8, 5 to 9, 4 to 10) or vice versa.
3) If you are on the place 8 on come out roll and shooter's new point is 8 (Dealer will verbally ask you what you want to do with it)
That happened to me early this morning when I asked dealer to Place the 6 and she placed the 8.
It is your responsibility to notice early and tell the dealer to correct this before the shooter gets the dice and throws them.
In most cases however, the dealer will let it slide and realized that "Call bets" are Binding if the money is there and they will pay you for your 6.
another similar situation is the trick that Ontariodealer posted
Quote:Silently place 300 in chips on the "come" bet just as the shooter has the dice... then verbally tell the dealer you want "Place 6 for $300" (having $300.00 cash in your hand). Without touching any chips he books the "Call bet" and waits for the shooter to roll the dice.
a) if shooter rolls 7-out, you can throw $300 cash on the table and yell at the dealer "Hey why are you taking my "come bet" (Lose 300 cash bet win 300 from your come bet)
b) If shooter rolls any number... the dealer will take the 300 in chips and place your 6. (you can then turn it "off" or ask to take it down.)
Bottom line is... if "call bets" are allowed at the craps table and you called "place 6 for 30" then yes even if you had that bet in the field your gonna get paid for the 6.
Technically, no. But if you're a known player with a good reputation, the box will usually agree to pay you and simply suggest that you keep an eye on your bets the next time.Quote: speedycrapSay, I place $30 on six but the dealer puts the money on 8. And a six is rolled, should I get paid???
To be fair to the house, I've seen a similar situation where a player bought the 4, but the dealer put it on the 10. The next roll was a 10. The dealer paid the player, but the player said, "No, I actually wanted the 4," and was about to give the money back. But the box stepped in and said, "No, the money is yours, sir. The dealer thought you said 10, so if a 4 was rolled instead, you wouldn't have gotten paid. But a 10 was rolled, so the money is rightfully yours."
Quote: Beethoven9ththe player said, "No, I actually wanted the 4"
Not even Paigowdan demands that degree of honesty stupidity.
Quote: Beethoven9thTechnically, no. But if you're a known player with a good reputation, the box will usually agree to pay you and simply suggest that you keep an eye on your bets the next time.
To be fair to the house, I've seen a similar situation where a player bought the 4, but the dealer put it on the 10. The next roll was a 10. The dealer paid the player, but the player said, "No, I actually wanted the 4," and was about to give the money back. But the box stepped in and said, "No, the money is yours, sir. The dealer thought you said 10, so if a 4 was rolled instead, you wouldn't have gotten paid. But a 10 was rolled, so the money is rightfully yours."
I agree with what was said because we as players have plenty of time to correct that bet before the dice go out. "When dice are out all bets are in play as they are shown unless otherwise at the dealers discretion".
Quote: onenickelmiracleI've been wondering about the times bets are beyond the table maximum....
I doubt I have ever wagered beyond the table maximum. I have seen it done, most often with bets beyond the allowed odds multiple on a craps table. I frequently hear dealers pointing out to players when they need to reduce their odds bets.
What happens when it isn't caught before the bet is resolved? Well, this is what I have seen: excess bets are taken off the stack and returned to the player before winnings are paid or before the remainder of a losing wager is collected. Of course, it is possible that a dealer scoops up the chips and doesn't even notice that the losing wager is above the table maximum.
About a month ago, I was playing craps at Harrah's Cherokee when a player was making lots of large dark-side bets, with high stacks of chips that could not be readily counted by the dealers without interrupting the flow of the game. Note: Harrah's Cherokee offers 10x odds, so a don't bettor can have quite a stack of odds chips. On one hand, his don't pass bet won, but he had more than the allowed free odds on the table. They didn't simply remove the excess wager; since his intent/desire was clear, they paid his don't bet and the maximum don't odds, but they moved the excess odds over as if they had been a lay bet against the point. Because of the lay bet vig, he didn't get paid quite as much as if odds bets had been unlimited, but they certainly didn't short him. They also returned excess bets when his wagers lost.
I thought it was a very honorable way for a casino to act.
Quote: Doc
About a month ago, I was playing craps at Harrah's Cherokee when a player was making lots of large dark-side bets, with high stacks of chips that could not be readily counted by the dealers without interrupting the flow of the game. Note: Harrah's Cherokee offers 10x odds, so a don't bettor can have quite a stack of odds chips. On one hand, his don't pass bet won, but he had more than the allowed free odds on the table. They didn't simply remove the excess wager; since his intent/desire was clear, they paid his don't bet and the maximum don't odds, but they moved the excess odds over as if they had been a lay bet against the point. Because of the lay bet vig, he didn't get paid quite as much as if odds bets had been unlimited, but they certainly didn't short him. They also returned excess bets when his wagers lost.
Doc - Are you saying that the casino paid the excess don't odds as a lay bet when the shooter hit a seven, but if the shooter hit the point (or any other number that had don't money on it) they took only the max odds and returned the excess? If so that's a freeroll on the lay bet and a very profitable situation.
Quote: DocPerhaps not, but I am "stupid" enough that I have returned chips many times when I was paid improperly. I figure that if I'm going to complain about short pays, I should admit to overpays and wrong pays.
+1. Can't have it both ways. Well said.
Quote: onenickelmiracleI've been wondering about the times bets are beyond the table maximum. If they're there, they'd take it on losses, so I'd hope the bet would still be paid if it's sitting on the spot. Roulette for example never has the max bet per inside numbers actually in writing. If someone placed purple it should be paid if not refused.
I have never seen the casino pay an overbet. If the person has too much money on the spot, the dealer throws back the overbet and pays the max. If a player overbets and loses, I don't know that I've ever seen the house throw back the overbet; they just sweep the losers. But it's a different thing to sweep losers than to count the bet to pay it, so I can't say they have any responsibility if they didn't notice before bet resolution.
Quote: DocPerhaps not, but I am "stupid" enough that I have returned chips many times when I was paid improperly. I figure that if I'm going to complain about short pays, I should admit to overpays and wrong pays.
Quote: beachbumbabs+1. Can't have it both ways. Well said.
To be sure, I have felt stupidly honest, at least more honest than necessary, many, many times at the casino; usually the only time a favorable miss-pay remains in my coffers is when I had to ponder 'what happened', then felt it was past time to speak up [always on minimal amounts]. Usually, by that time, I'm a bit unsure and the miss-pay money is mixed up with other chips. Perhaps some people would return money they thought "might" have been miss-paid. Another player might draw the line there, most I think. As for me, I draw the line also at the situation previously described as well. For one thing, if I had noticed in the first place, and cared, I would have loudly called attention to the error [I'm not shy in such matters]. If the bet had lost, I also would not have protested, having failed to notice/care in the first place.
If that seems like a lot of words in response, just let it be said that I can take stern umbrage at the suggestion I have a loose standard in ethics.
Quote: MidwestAPDoc - Are you saying that the casino paid the excess don't odds as a lay bet when the shooter hit a seven, but if the shooter hit the point (or any other number that had don't money on it) they took only the max odds and returned the excess? If so that's a freeroll on the lay bet and a very profitable situation.
Yes, that is exactly what they did. I don't think they would establish that as an official policy, but the player was putting out huge stacks of black chips without counting them, and the dealer/box were trying to give him the best deal they reasonably could. In order to do things "properly" they would have needed to stop the game frequently to count his stacks of chips between rolls to make certain he wasn't overbetting the max.
And yes, he eventually lost it all, even though I was told he had built most of his stash from winnings before I arrived rather than from his buy-in.
Had one black chip on the don't pass.
Point of ten established.
I bridged another $200.usd (one black beside the original play, one bridge chip)
Ten is rolled after a few other numbers.
Dealers always seemed confused by don't pass wagers, paid all the pass winners and looked at my don't money, then paid $200.usd.
I picked up the now $500.usd and left the (busy) table.
I felt bad about it all as maybe the dealer would catch some grief, but today some years later, figure even the eye in the sky wasn't watching the game.
Is that cheating of just taking advantage of weak management and no one paying attention to the game??
Quote: beachbumbabsI have never seen the casino pay an overbet. If the person has too much money on the spot, the dealer throws back the overbet and pays the max. If a player overbets and loses, I don't know that I've ever seen the house throw back the overbet; they just sweep the losers. But it's a different thing to sweep losers than to count the bet to pay it, so I can't say they have any responsibility if they didn't notice before bet resolution.
I have seen both--they have swept "overbets" that they did not notice and they have also paid them with the procedure as noted above--except this was a right-side bet (bets, actually...the guy could not figure out how much he could put behind a $5 pass line bet with 10x odds):
Set the bet up right with correct max odds; move the "overbet" to the side
Pay the correct bet first
Pay the overbet as a "place" bet
If they see an overbet, they correct it or tell the player to add a chip. If they do that and nothing happens, then they did not pay him. They only paid improper bets that they did not notice were improper before the shooter rolled the dice.
Quote: NokTangTrump Plaza, Atlantic City.
Had one black chip on the don't pass.
Point of ten established.
I bridged another $200.usd (one black beside the original play, one bridge chip)
Ten is rolled after a few other numbers.
Dealers always seemed confused by don't pass wagers, paid all the pass winners and looked at my don't money, then paid $200.usd.
I picked up the now $500.usd and left the (busy) table.
I felt bad about it all as maybe the dealer would catch some grief, but today some years later, figure even the eye in the sky wasn't watching the game.
Is that cheating of just taking advantage of weak management and no one paying attention to the game??
A lot of times, surveillance doesn't watch craps as closely, partially because they have a box to watch it and catch errors whereas other games have a floor for several games and partially because most surveillance personnel don't understand craps. It almost makes me wonder why casinos don't put former craps dealers in surveillance just for that exact reason. (I'm sure craps dealers would rather deal than watch on a camera, and this situation would be extremely awkward to correct, but at least it could be trained in the future because someone who understands the game caught it.)
Quote: hwccdealerA lot of times, surveillance doesn't watch craps as closely, partially because they have a box to watch it and catch errors whereas other games have a floor for several games and partially because most surveillance personnel don't understand craps. It almost makes me wonder why casinos don't put former craps dealers in surveillance just for that exact reason. (I'm sure craps dealers would rather deal than watch on a camera, and this situation would be extremely awkward to correct, but at least it could be trained in the future because someone who understands the game caught it.)
In every Surveillance room I have worked or managed I require all my employees to have at least Blackjack, ROulette, Craps, Baccarat and one carnival game or hold em. Ex dealers make the best operators even though they cannot make as much money in Surveillance. It is usually a medical thing that has made them look for something different........HOWEVER.
Things are going to change in the Surveillance field in the US moving forward. No more, sitting on a chair for 8 hours a day with your feet on the desk in a badly lit room......No more!!!!
We are canvassing to move towards a room that is as well lit as any office, proper, ergonomic desks, well designed wall screens and person LED screens on your desk. You will be required to actually work, no more freebies :)
Things are a changing, oh yes they are :)
Quote: AxiomOfChoiceI don't know that I'd leave a game that is paying don't pass wagers whether the point is made or not :)
At the time, I thought they might ask for the money back. I was younger but am still an honest guy at heart. I thought of it as luck more than anything. The Trump Plaza at least then was a busy casino and not well lit. Confusion was for sure in the air.
You should be able to look at the layout and know which bets are yours by their location. Each place bet "points" to the chip rail of its owner. Any bet in the center of the box is for the dealers.
Quote: TomspurIn every Surveillance room I have worked or managed I require all my employees to have at least Blackjack, ROulette, Craps, Baccarat and one carnival game or hold em. Ex dealers make the best operators even though they cannot make as much money in Surveillance. It is usually a medical thing that has made them look for something different........HOWEVER.
Things are going to change in the Surveillance field in the US moving forward. No more, sitting on a chair for 8 hours a day with your feet on the desk in a badly lit room......No more!!!!
We are canvassing to move towards a room that is as well lit as any office, proper, ergonomic desks, well designed wall screens and person LED screens on your desk. You will be required to actually work, no more freebies :)
Things are a changing, oh yes they are :)
the room i work for is pretty much state of the art but i still sit and don't do much
Quote: bdc42the room i work for is pretty much state of the art but i still sit and don't do much
Nothing is better than being on the floor involving yourself in the action. Kind of like having a job as a secret shopper for department stores. Don't knock it because such jobs do exist. One can learn so many secrets from such a job.
