New to gambling - Craps.
Here is my strategy. (Remember, I'm cheap.) And patient. :-)
Bet $5 on the Don't Pass. (Dirty looks don't bother me and I'm pretty quiet anyways.)
If the Come Out isn't a 4 or 10, I would just let it sit there until I win or lose.
If the Come Out is a 4 or 10, play the max odds, which I believe would be $15, and let that go until I win or lose.
I have not tried this in the casino, only on many computer and internet games. I usually come out ahead a little bit. And I know its probably not true to life. And like I said, I'm not trying to strike it rich, and not trying to lose my shirt. And I don't want to be there for 5 minutes either.
Thank you in advance. And thank you for all the other interesting topics.
Jeremy.
The max odds for a $5 DP bet with a point of 4 or 10 couldn't be $15, because that would pay $7.50. At casinos with 3-4-5 odds, the max odds for a DP or DC bet are always 6 times your flat bet.
I would back up all my don't bets with odds, because it reduces the combined house edge of your line bets. If you're going to make another $5 line bet if you win your previous line bet, you might as well use that $5 on odds on your first line bet, since the house edge is 0 vs. 1.4% for the line.
You still are at risk at the other numbers to resolve as soon as you make the line bet. So, what is sometimes said, is that the odds do not help you win more money. The Wizard advises you to just size up what you are comfortable with. It is possible to reduce the HE with more odds bets, but it takes more money, and you aren't comfortable with that size bet [all the time anyway].
With your concerns I would be a rightside bettor and wager 15 to win 30, so you can stay comfortable.
And one way to get the HE down and stay comfortable is to go max odds on all numbers, but limit your total action. That means short sessions. Long sessions with your strategy can mean just as much action, but at higher HE. If you aren't sure what I mean, then don't sweat it. Coming to Wizard sites in general is a good sign you are on the right track [but a lot of that is at wizardofodds.com. ]
Quote: sodawaterYour strategy is fine. Stick to line bets and odds, as they have the lowest house edge at craps.
The max odds for a $5 DP bet with a point of 4 or 10 couldn't be $15, because that would pay $7.50. At casinos with 3-4-5 odds, the max odds for a DP or DC bet are always 6 times your flat bet.
I would back up all my don't bets with odds, because it reduces the combined house edge of your line bets. If you're going to make another $5 line bet if you win your previous line bet, you might as well use that $5 on odds on your first line bet, since the house edge is 0 vs. 1.4% for the line.
Ah, I wasn't paying attention to the max odds of don't pass/don't come.
So I would assume my odds would have to be an even number? So, on my $5 I could put $6 in odd down, which would pay $3. (Sounds ridiculous, LoL.)
My thought process with only putting odds down on the 4 or 10 is that they are harder to get than 5-6-8-9 and therefore if they did come up, before the 7, I am only losing $5 rather than $10 or $20.
Quote: SkittleCar1Ah, I wasn't paying attention to the max odds of don't pass/don't come.
So I would assume my odds would have to be an even number? So, on my $5 I could put $6 in odd down, which would pay $3. (Sounds ridiculous, LoL.)
My thought process with only putting odds down on the 4 or 10 is that they are harder to get than 5-6-8-9 and therefore if they did come up, before the 7, I am only losing $5 rather than $10 or $20.
If you are playing the don't and the point is 4 or 10, your odds bet can be any even number up to the maximum, yes.
You are right that 4 and 10 are the hardest points to make, and therefore you will win your odds bets 2/3s of the time. But that's exactly offset by the fact that you will lose 1/3 of the time, and you are laying 2 to 1. So the odds bets on the 4 and 10 are no better or worse than the odds bets on the 6/8 and 5/9. I would still recommend you play odds for all your don't points, as long as you are planning to gamble that money anyway. You can't beat 0 house edge.
Quote: odiousgambitDarkside you *probably* wager 30 to win 15 on 4 or 10, the reverse of what you stated. Not enough info.
You still are at risk at the other numbers to resolve as soon as you make the line bet. So, what is sometimes said, is that the odds do not help you win more money. The Wizard advises you to just size up what you are comfortable with. It is possible to reduce the HE with more odds bets, but it takes more money, and you aren't comfortable with that size bet [all the time anyway].
With your concerns I would be a rightside bettor and wager 15 to win 30, so you can stay comfortable.
And one way to get the HE down and stay comfortable is to go max odds on all numbers, but limit your total action. That means short sessions. Long sessions with your strategy can mean just as much action, but at higher HE. If you aren't sure what I mean, then don't sweat it. Coming to Wizard sites in general is a good sign you are on the right track [but a lot of that is at wizardofodds.com. ]
My first craps experience was with $5 pass line bets, and $5 odds. Then I was doing $5 come bets, with $5 odds. I did this three times in a row, and got 7'd out every time. So that was $60 gone in a matter of 15 minutes. It kinda soured me on the whole thing. With that said, I did very little studying on the game at that point in time.
Also the thought with my strategy is to have a longer session. I like watching everyone play and having a small stake in it.
Thank you both for replying. I will keep your advice in mind and try it out. :)
Did you have fun playing Craps?
You can grind it for a period of time... I played for over 3 hours in Reno with a bank roll of $200. Never played the Don't, however.
But I had a lot of fun. That is why I keep coming back.
Think about how you would like to gamble at the craps table, then go with the flow. You will get killed on the Don't if the shooter starts hitting points... So, go with the flow, play what's working at that table at that time.
How many were at your table for the first time you played? The wildest craps tables I have ever played were at the Motor City Casino on New Years Eve.
SFB
Quote: SkittleCar1After a little more testing, I played $5 on the don't pass. And then $6 odds no matter what the point is. It seems to be about what I am looking for my fun. Thank you again. Saturday can't come fast enough!! :-)
Just so you know, many casinos require that the amount of your potential win on your odds be (at least) equal to the minimum table bet. So if you're on a $5 table, many places will require that you lay at least $9 odds (to win $6) if the point is 5 or 9, and $10 odds (to win $5) if the point is 4 or 10.
Also, if you really want to impress the crew, learn how to bridge and heel your odds bet properly, since most people always screw this part up. :)
Quote: Beethoven9thJust so you know, many casinos require that the amount of your potential win on your odds be (at least) equal to the minimum table bet. So if you're on a $5 table, many places will require that you lay at least $9 odds (to win $6) if the point is 5 or 9, and $10 odds (to win $5) if the point is 4 or 10.
Also, if you really want to impress the crew, learn how to bridge and heel your odds bet properly, since most people always screw this part up. :)
Ok. I am glad you brought that up. I think I would be ok with that, since my original plan involved $15 in odds. So I should be good there.
As far as the bridge and heel, is there a tutorial? LoL.
Also some pictures @ http://www.howtoplaycrapsrulesstrategy.com/craps_betting_dont_pass_bet.html
$5 Don't Pass bet.
For a 6 or 8 point. $6 odds would be bridged. ($6 to win $5)
For a 5 or 9 point. $9 odds would be heeled. ($9 to win $6)
For a 4 or 10 point. $10 odds would be bridged. ($10 to win $5)
Correct?
Yep!
(Assuming, of course, that the amounts being bridged are of the same denomination. For example, if your flat bet is a nickel, and you're laying 6 singles, then obviously that can't be bridged)
If I am wanting to play the darkside, I want to...
Bet $5 on the don't pass.
Then when the point is established, lay the max odds, no matter what the point is, which would be $30. (heeled)
So those are really my best odds/bets?
If I think I understand it all correctly?
Quote: SkittleCar1So, ignoring my bankroll for a moment.
If I am wanting to play the darkside, I want to...
Bet $5 on the don't pass.
Then when the point is established, lay the max odds, no matter what the point is, which would be $30. (heeled)
So those are really my best odds/bets?
If I think I understand it all correctly?
Yes -- minimum on the don't pass and laying maximum odds would reduce the house edge to its lowest possible number.
If the casino offers 3-4-5 odds, then your odds bet would be $30 or 6 times your flat bet every time.
4/10 -- $30 to win $15
5/9 -- $30 to win $20
6/8 -- $30 to win $25
If the casino offers different odds, it will be different.
For example, if the casino offered 5x odds, here are the max odds you could lay for a $5 DP bet:
4/10 -- $50 to win $25
5/9 -- $45 to win $30
6/8 -- $30 to win $25
If the casino offered only double odds, here are the max odds you could lay for a $5 DP bet:
4/10 -- $20 to win $10
5/9 -- $15 to win $10
6/8 -- $12 to win $10
I went to the Web site for the Akwesasne Mohawk Casino, but it doesn't say the craps odds offered. I assume it is 3-4-5 since that is most common.
2. Either the deuce or 12 will pop once within 18 rolls of the cubes.
The above is all any cat needs to know about dice, hey hey!
Quote: Beethoven9thJust so you know, many casinos require that the amount of your potential win on your odds be (at least) equal to the minimum table bet. So if you're on a $5 table, many places will require that you lay at least $9 odds (to win $6) if the point is 5 or 9, and $10 odds (to win $5) if the point is 4 or 10.
Also, if you really want to impress the crew, learn how to bridge and heel your odds bet properly, since most people always screw this part up. :)
Does this rule typically apply to pass line bets as well? I have put odds down lower than the minimum bet, because I am a poor wuss, and I have yet to be corrected by anyone. But I have never played live craps in Vegas. Just bubble craps and the bubble definitely doesn't care. $1 odds is fine with the machine.
Quote: tringlomaneDoes this rule typically apply to pass line bets as well? I have put odds down lower than the minimum bet, because I am a poor wuss, and I have yet to be corrected by anyone. But I have never played live craps in Vegas. Just bubble craps and the bubble definitely doesn't care. $1 odds is fine with the machine.
I think it very much depends on casino to casino. If you are playing at Bellagio they will probably ask you to conform to the "odds at or higher than the table minimum" rule. If you are playing at a locals spot or even at O'Sheas or Casino Royale, I doubt if they would care to be honest, as long as the crew has the ability (read chip variation) to pay the bet.
Everything is dependant on if you have a nice crew or a crew who hates their job!
Quote: tringlomaneDoes this rule typically apply to pass line bets as well?
Usually it does, but occasionally you'll find places that don't care.
Quote: sodawaterIn NJ, if you have a legal pass line bet, you can bet $1 on the 4 and 10 odds, $2 on the 5 and 9, and $5 on the 6 and 8. Every casino allows this.
THat makes complete sense Soda, again it is all about whether the table is able to pay the wager or not. If they allowed you to have a $4 6 and 8, they would have to have pennies in the tray to pay....not going to happen.
Just a silly example I know but it holds water.
Quote: TomspurTHat makes complete sense Soda, again it is all about whether the table is able to pay the wager or not. If they allowed you to have a $4 6 and 8, they would have to have pennies in the tray to pay....not going to happen.
Just a silly example I know but it holds water.
If you don't bet an amount that makes an even dollar result, they will round down the change I believe (except on bubble craps), but I would never bet that because it doesn't make sense. In Missouri or Tunica, I would usually just bet $2 odds on the 5 or 9 and they would pay me $3 even if the minimum was $5 on the pass. But if it was 6 or 8, I always bet $5 so I can get $6 from odds.
Quote: tringlomaneIf you don't bet an amount that makes an even dollar result, they will round down the change I believe (except on bubble craps), but I would never bet that because it doesn't make sense. In Missouri or Tunica, I would usually just bet $2 odds on the 5 or 9 and they would pay me $3 even if the minimum was $5 on the pass. But if it was 6 or 8, I always bet $5 so I can get $6 from odds.
It is also very much up to the crew you are playing with to ensure that you always have the correct amounts bet in order to maximize your payout. You are correct though, if they cannot pay you correctly they will round in the houses' favor. Some crews will, if you continue to bet low on the odds, make up for it next time if they feel your "fractions" have reached the next $1 and consequently pay you an extra $1.
Kinda similar with paying the vig on buy numbers.
In Craps you can get bored waiting for your bets to resolve. The solution to the boredom is to make other bets. So, maybe not now for you , but later it's an experience of either getting bored or risking more ... needing a bigger bankroll. Let us know how it goes with you.
Quote: SFBSkittle:
Did you have fun playing Craps?
You can grind it for a period of time... I played for over 3 hours in Reno with a bank roll of $200. Never played the Don't, however.
But I had a lot of fun. That is why I keep coming back.
Think about how you would like to gamble at the craps table, then go with the flow. You will get killed on the Don't if the shooter starts hitting points... So, go with the flow, play what's working at that table at that time.
How many were at your table for the first time you played? The wildest craps tables I have ever played were at the Motor City Casino on New Years Eve.
SFB
I was going back through this thread, sorry I missed it.
Yes, I loved playing it in the short amount of time I did. It's a lot of information overload for a rookie to take in. People yelling at the dealers, and throwing chips in the center bets. But it's very interesting to watch others strategies. Some of the chances people take, and the amount of money are real eye openers.
I would say there were about 3 players including me my first time, but it grew to 6 or 7 pretty quick.
I'm gonna try my small bets & odds and see how that goes. However, the max odds is really intriguing. Gotta be patient and not worry about what I "could" have won. Over time, I may get a little more aggressive.
Quote: sodawaterthe thing is, why make 10 $5 flat bets, which will cost you 1.4% on 50, rather than use that same $50 in free odds bets, which costs you 0.0%?
Because you get 10 decisions vs only 1 decision when you play $50 in free odds.
In those 10 decisions , you're most likely not going to lose them all. Let's say you win 4. Your loss is $30
With Free odds, you win $60+, or you LOSE IT ALL.
Mathematically it is correct to play the free odds, but it comes at the expense of not being able to have more decisions, which would tend to mean shorter playing sessions.
This is what makes craps so hard to quantify. The best mathematical way to play the game is not necessarily the best way for a person to play, depending on their bankroll AND what they are looking to get out of their playing session.
You should want more variance, not less.
You should want less house edge, not more, to pay for this variance.
Quote: sodawaterProblem is, when you gamble at a negative EV game, you're buying variance.
You should want more variance, not less.
You should want less house edge, not more, to pay for this variance.
But buying that variance comes at a huge expense.
You have to have a MUCH MUCH higher bankroll if you want to put $50 in free odds on your $5 bet.
It is great when it wins, but if it loses, you're out $55. And it took less than a minute or two.
OTOH, $5 bets means you get to sit through 11 decisions, which could mean as much as 10-30 minutes. AND, you most likely are NOT going to lose all $55. You can't say the same for the Free odds bet.
IF you are trying to play craps with a limited bankroll, say $100, you can try and play the best mathematical way of $5 and $50 in Free odds, but you will only get 2 chances. And you have a decent chance at losing both of them. Two and Done. Now what?
But 20 decisions of $5 bets is going to last a long time.
+1Quote: RaleighCrapsIF you are trying to play craps with a limited bankroll, say $100, you can try and play the best mathematical way of $5 and $50 in Free odds, but you will only get 2 chances. And you have a decent chance at losing both of them.
Most people buy in for $100 or less, and if they want to stay at the table for a while, I totally agree that they shouldn't be taking/laying odds.
Quote: Beethoven9th+1
Most people buy in for $100 or less, and if they want to stay at the table for a while, I totally agree that they shouldn't be taking/laying odds.
When I play at Casino Royale on their $3 table and I only want to risk $60 total I typically put the $3 minimum on the pass line and then $3 on the 4/10, $4 on the 5/9 and $5 on the 6/8. This gives some time at the table if the dice start out against me, and gives me some exposure to the free odds bets. I can still wash out quickly with only $60, but neither is it all or nothing. Mind you I don't typically gamble for more than an hour at a time so maybe that's why the bet size and bankroll work out.
--helpmespock
Quote: sodawaterProblem is, when you gamble at a negative EV game, you're buying variance.
You should want more variance, not less.
You should want less house edge, not more, to pay for this variance.
That is one (valid) way to look at it. On the other hand, most people are buying entertainment. Dollars go in and entertainment time comes out. Hence something combining:
-Distribution of outcomes of session (including EV and SD)
-Time spent playing
-Method of play (what do you do? pick sides, roll dice, pull a lever, watch a sporting event, etc.)
Say I want to put my white hat on and play the pass line...
I will play $5 on the pass line.
What are the minimum odds I can play to get my full payout? I am not good with figuring the whole 6:5 thing.
So could I just throw down $5 in odds and not get short changed?
EDIT: I did figure out the 5 & 9 need $6 in odds to avoid the 50 cent thing.
Quote: SkittleCar1OK, I have another question, mostly because I am TERRIBLE at math.......
Say I want to put my white hat on and play the pass line...
I will play $5 on the pass line.
What are the minimum odds I can play to get my full payout? I am not good with figuring the whole 6:5 thing.
So could I just throw down $5 in odds and not get short changed?
To receive a full payout, if your point is 5 or 9, pass odds must be an even number. If your point is 6 or 8, pass odds must be a multiple of 5. Odds for 4 and 10 can be any number.
In NJ, all casinos let you bet $1 odds on 4/10, $2 odds on 5/9, and $5 odds on 6/8 and get full payouts -- other casinos may make you bet some higher minimum on odds.
5/9 pay 3 to 2 so it has to be even.
6/8 pay 6 to 5 so it has to be a multiple of 5.
4/10 pay 2 to 1 so it has to be a multiple of 1.
Quote: SkittleCar1OK, I have another question, mostly because I am TERRIBLE at math.......
Say I want to put my white hat on and play the pass line...
I will play $5 on the pass line.
What are the minimum odds I can play to get my full payout? I am not good with figuring the whole 6:5 thing.
So could I just throw down $5 in odds and not get short changed?
EDIT: I did figure out the 5 & 9 need $6 in odds to avoid the 50 cent thing.
$10. Keep it divisible by 10 and everything will be fine.
Pass---------------Don't Pass
6/8-----------------6/8
$5 - $5odds *** $5 - $6odds
5/9-----------------5/9
$5 - $6odds *** $5 - $9odds
4/10---------------4/10
$5 - $5odds *** $5 - $10odds
Hopefully this will give me some good time at the table, and not lose a whole lot. Haha.
If you lay 9 dollars on the DP odds for the 9, you can win $6. If you take 6 dollars on the pass odds for the 9, you can win $9.
Another question I have with the odds, can I remove them any time? Or once I place them, is that it?
Quote: SkittleCar1Slowly getting this!
Another question I have with the odds, can I remove them any time? Or once I place them, is that it?
The only bets that can't be removed are the contract bets on Pass and Come. The odds behind the pass line you can pick up yourself. The others often are just declared "off".
Personally, I think picking up bets is a bad habit to get into.
PS: when do we get a report on how this goes?
And as far as my report on how all this works out ..... we will know tomorrow night. Headed to Hogansburg NY tomorrow morning.....and hopefully all day!
Quote: SkittleCar1My only reason for pulling odds is my own cheapness and insecurity of losing. If someone tosses a bunch in a row, without hitting the point, its like you can just feel the 7 coming easier than the point (or vice versa.) Its like the whole "635 days since our last job related injury" sign. You are one day closer until the next one happens, you never know when. :-)
This is faulty logic. Try to stay away from thinking like this. Craps is a game of independent trials. That means each roll of the dice is a fresh start. The dice don't have a memory to know they haven't rolled 7 or the point in a while. Even if they did, they lack the muscles and dexterity to arrange their faces to "correct" the run.
Even your example of workplace injuries is flawed. Absent any other knowledge, I'd argue a workplace injury today is LESS likely at a job site that had gone 635 days without one, than say a job site that had gone 30 days without one. Regardless, the analogy makes no sense for craps.
You should leave odds working whenever you intend to continue gambling because odds bets carry 0 house edge and every other bet you might make carries a house edge. So if you plan on continuing to play you might as well leave the odds working.
Plus, I'd be kicking myself if I pulled them, and the number I need came up. The mind is a terrible thing.
