What is a happy return on bankroll?

In craps, what do you consider as a good-great return on your starting bankroll? The $$ amount doesn't matter. I am talking %s. One session % return. Session may be 10 minutes or 2 hours. Pretend you are willing to loose your entire bankroll. The amount of your bankroll could be 300 or 20k it is all relative.
You cant get 3% or 10% a year in a bank. To make 5% to well over 100% in 10 minutes to 2 hours would be incredible! So, when do you walk away?

Quote: mds

In craps, what do you consider as a good-great return on your starting bankroll? The $$ amount doesn't matter. I am talking %s. One session % return. Session may be 10 minutes or 2 hours. Pretend you are willing to loose your entire bankroll. The amount of your bankroll could be 300 or 20k it is all relative.
You cant get 3% or 10% a year in a bank. To make 5% to well over 100% in 10 minutes to 2 hours would be incredible!

It's a negative expectation game. Anything above "even" makes me happy.

Quote:

So, when do you walk away?

The only winning move is not to play.

Quote: mds

So, when do you walk away?

Before placing my first bet. Hopefully also after receiving my first drink.

when you go to a movie or a ballgame, do you expect to have a "return" on the money you spent for the ticket? aside from entertainment, ballgames, movies, and craps are all negative expectation.

play as much and as long as you can afford within your budget for entertainment.

Quote: mds

In craps, what do you consider as a good-great return on your starting bankroll? The $$ amount doesn't matter. I am talking %s. One session % return. Session may be 10 minutes or 2 hours. Pretend you are willing to loose your entire bankroll. The amount of your bankroll could be 300 or 20k it is all relative.
You cant get 3% or 10% a year in a bank. To make 5% to well over 100% in 10 minutes to 2 hours would be incredible! So, when do you walk away?

If you'd like to leave a craps table with 100K start playing with 200K.

Why are all the poll choices positive numbers?

Bankroll is irrelevant, the real question that matters is:

How much of a bigot was I at the table that day?

Quote: anonimuss

If you'd like to leave a craps table with 100K start playing with 200K.

I get it! However, it says "Pretend". Every person who signs up with this site knows craps is a -EV game. If at all possible put that on the sidelines for now. Walk up to a craps table and throw out as much money as you want to be entertained with and pretend you are up. At what % up would you stop playing that session and walk. My vote is 100%.

Your poll has 2 narrow a range and doesn't include negative expectations for the naysayers.

Leaving with a double is kinda of like kissing your sister for me, okay but not really very exciting. I won't leave on a double unless I am tired of playing. 5X is where it starts getting exciting. 10x is a good session and 30X to 100X is where the adrenalin is really pumping.

In craps, anything more than the initial cash-in (i.e. $100 on a $5 table) even though I might have $500 on me.
So if I play for an hour, and aftr a shooter 7-outs, if I got more than I started with, I'm happy. Will I stay? That's a
different Q&A entirely.

For me it's about 50%. Obviously I don't always make that much and any win is a good win but 30 to 50% and I'm happy.

I always think it's funny that so many think everyone always loses at craps.

Quote: JB85

I always think it's funny that so many think everyone always loses at craps.

I think its funny how so many craps players think they win all the time at craps.

I have nothing against craps in general or craps players. But, many of them seem to think they are better or smarter then other gamblers. I think they are just able to play longer.

bankroll




To any serious craps player that wants to play with an advantage, bank roll is
everything.

Bank roll dictates your starting position in terms of your bets, it dictates any
loss limit you may use. For many it is the only buffer there is between losing
some or losing it all.

Now bank roll is not the same thing as buy in, and buy in does not dictate
what you will win. However bank roll or lack of one can help determine what
kind of player you are.

We all see a number of players that buy in for $500 and place $25 pass line
bet with triple odds, $60 6 & 8 and $25 hardway bets. we see them come
and go like a yo yo. Play and off to the ATM. We also see the guys that
buy in for a couple of thousand and start off with $100 pass line bet and
triple odds and $120 on 6 & 8 $100 on 5 & 9 and maybe even buy a 4.
Ten minutes later they just sign another marker.

A good player with a gambling account of $10,000 understands even if you
are the best, there are still ups and downs and his starting bet is only 1%
of the $10,000, or the $8000 or what ever amount you have been able to
acquire.

It would be reasonable to expect wins on a good day of 4 times your
starting bet, and if that is $100 then $400 is reasonable. If you limit your
loss to 1.5-2% of your bank roll, you will be playing craps for a long
time, and the ATM and markers wont be a part of your play.

In the end either we control our play or the table gets everything we
can find to spend that day.

dicesetter

Quote: JB85

I always think it's funny that so many think everyone always loses at craps.

I don't think anyone thinks that everyone always loses. If no one ever had winning sessions, no one would ever come back.

The thing is, if you're planning on going back, you're not really winning. You're just holding on to the chips for the casino until next time. At best, it's a loan.

Just came from Vegas this past weekend. Played craps for a total of 6 hours over 2 1/2 days. They had me for a Avg bet of 500. Played 10 sessions over 2 1/2 days. Some sessions were 10 minutes and some 1 hour. I would look for a table that suited me and I didn't play every hand. I would be patient and wait for what I thought was a table or a roll that might be in my favor. (I know that doesn't work but it works for me) DP only 400 with 300 odds 80% of the time. The other 20% sometimes more sometimes less. Bottom line, up 40% of my total bankroll. Yes, I was down from time to time as much as 20% of total bankroll. 2 of the 10 sessions were really good with a 20% return each of total bankroll.

Highlights were heart attack café where I had a triple and SW steakhouse for dinner! Also checked out pawn stars shop. Went to the Venetian, Palazzo, Wynn, Caesars, Aria, Cosmo, El Cortez and walked down Fremont St. I had a pedometer on me and walked over 50,000 steps in 2 1/2 days even with a rental car. That's more than 25 miles or so I think!

Trip cost... Room 400 a night comped.. Food at hotel for the weekend 500.00 comped.. Could have asked for more but was trying to be under the radar. Rental car 50.00 foe the weekend. Flight 300 round trip. Winning 40% almost priceless! Well, 40%!

Quote: mds

Just came from Vegas this past weekend. Played craps for a total of 6 hours over 2 1/2 days. They had me for a Avg bet of 500. Played 10 sessions over 2 1/2 days. Some sessions were 10 minutes and some 1 hour. I would look for a table that suited me and I didn't play every hand. I would be patient and wait for what I thought was a table or a roll that might be in my favor. (I know that doesn't work but it works for me) DP only 400 with 300 odds 80% of the time. The other 20% sometimes more sometimes less. Bottom line, up 40% of my total bankroll. Yes, I was down from time to time as much as 20% of total bankroll. 2 of the 10 sessions were really good with a 20% return each of total bankroll.

Highlights were heart attack café where I had a triple and SW steakhouse for dinner! Also checked out pawn stars shop. Went to the Venetian, Palazzo, Wynn, Caesars, Aria, Cosmo, El Cortez and walked down Fremont St. I had a pedometer on me and walked over 50,000 steps in 2 1/2 days even with a rental car. That's more than 25 miles or so I think!

Trip cost... Room 400 a night comped.. Food at hotel for the weekend 500.00 comped.. Could have asked for more but was trying to be under the radar. Rental car 50.00 foe the weekend. Flight 300 round trip. Winning 40% almost priceless! Well, 40%!

Why are you trying to be under the radar? You are playing craps. You are not an AP. They love you. Take everything you can get.

Quote: AxiomOfChoice

Why are you trying to be under the radar? You are playing craps. You are not an AP. They love you. Take everything you can get.

Absolutely true and I agree. However, where I go you have to pull teeth to get anything. Hate the conflict. Also, I have to check every single time to make sure the avg and time is right on. Seems everywhere I go it is the same. (High end places at least) I guess unless you are wagering 2000 a hand it is the same for everyone at these places. I seem to be in the middle.

I am 100% happy breaking even on any game. Considering all the comp points from hours of play plus free drinks plus comp dollars , breaking even can be profitable. And making a profit of amy sort makes me very happy.

Quote: mds

Absolutely true and I agree. However, where I go you have to pull teeth to get anything. Hate the conflict. Also, I have to check every single time to make sure the avg and time is right on. Seems everywhere I go it is the same. (High end places at least) I guess unless you are wagering 2000 a hand it is the same for everyone at these places. I seem to be in the middle.

Honestly, you did get your room and all your food comped. Your average bet is high but your hours played are low (6hrs in 3 days is about half of what they are looking for -- I think 4hrs/day is the standard) so those should more or less cancel out. I'd say that you were comped fairly.

Do you have a host? I don't know where you are staying, but if it's an MGM/Mirage property, one of the big advantages to having a host is that she can go around the "you must use your express comps before we comp anything off your room" rule. My host often just comps everything off my room without touching the express comps if I play a lot on a trip, which allows me to save those express comps for trips where I don't gamble as much (I'm there a lot; some are heavy gambling trips, and some are light gambling, heavy partying trips). Also, I get a lot of stuff comped "up front", which comes off before the express comps are touched.

I don't really stay at other properties so I can't give advice about how their systems work.

I am happy if I walk away with more than I put in. I am really happy if I am up enough to make one last bet that's bigger than my normal bet but less than my total profit and win it.

In all seriousness, it is indeed difficult to come up with what you want which is a TARGET number.
If it turns out to be a very choppy table and you walk away up twenty dollars a dealer may say to you "congratulations" ...and he may actually mean it.

If there were a few hot rolls and you were asleep... you can walk away in the plus column but not have done well at all.

On average, for a negative expectation game anything at or a bit over 100 percent gain should make you ecstatic, if your bets were basic strategy.

If your bets were Center Bets a 200 percent return is about minimum for any joy, since the risk was so high.

Quote: dicesitter

bankroll




To any serious craps player that wants to play with an advantage, bank roll is
everything.

Bank roll dictates your starting position in terms of your bets, it dictates any
loss limit you may use. For many it is the only buffer there is between losing
some or losing it all.

Now bank roll is not the same thing as buy in, and buy in does not dictate
what you will win. However bank roll or lack of one can help determine what
kind of player you are.

We all see a number of players that buy in for $500 and place $25 pass line
bet with triple odds, $60 6 & 8 and $25 hardway bets. we see them come
and go like a yo yo. Play and off to the ATM. We also see the guys that
buy in for a couple of thousand and start off with $100 pass line bet and
triple odds and $120 on 6 & 8 $100 on 5 & 9 and maybe even buy a 4.
Ten minutes later they just sign another marker.

A good player with a gambling account of $10,000 understands even if you
are the best, there are still ups and downs and his starting bet is only 1%
of the $10,000, or the $8000 or what ever amount you have been able to
acquire.

It would be reasonable to expect wins on a good day of 4 times your
starting bet, and if that is $100 then $400 is reasonable. If you limit your
loss to 1.5-2% of your bank roll, you will be playing craps for a long
time, and the ATM and markers wont be a part of your play.

In the end either we control our play or the table gets everything we
can find to spend that day.

dicesetter

hah hah! Just got back from casino a couple hours ago. placed a $5.00 chip on fire bet. 15 minutes later hedged the 5th point for $600 and lost it, but that's OK the shooter made the 5th point. Turned my $605 bank roll into $1250 giving me $645 profit for just under 20 minutes. Just got there at the right time. that's what craps is all about.

Quote: CrapsGenious

hah hah! Just got back from casino a couple hours ago. placed a $5.00 chip on fire bet. 15 minutes later hedged the 5th point for $600 and lost it, but that's OK the shooter made the 5th point. Turned my $605 bank roll into $1250 giving me $645 profit for just under 20 minutes. Just got there at the right time. that's what craps is all about.

Congrats, very good timing indeed.

Quote: CrapsGenious

hah hah! Just got back from casino a couple hours ago. placed a $5.00 chip on fire bet. 15 minutes later hedged the 5th point for $600 and lost it, but that's OK the shooter made the 5th point. Turned my $605 bank roll into $1250 giving me $645 profit for just under 20 minutes. Just got there at the right time. that's what craps is all about.

Don't sell yourself short! It was all skill! You made the fire bet and nothing else! The way you thought that out? That was all skill. :)