Making a living playing craps?

Quote: AxelWolf

Some are and do. Even in Vegas. This is why I am always carfull to include the word "unless" when I say systems dont work.

Fair enough.

One thing worth considering is, how much are the comps worth? If they include your odds bet, but then comp craps play very poorly, it still might not be worth much.

Also, none of these places offer the 500x odds that were originally mentioned. Getting a rating for 3x-4x-5x odds is nice, but the edge is similar to that of blackjack (of course the game is much slower too).

If you really want to do something like this, I would suggest learning to count a little bit at blackjack (just enough to break even -- you can do this with a small bet spread that will be unnoticed at most places) and play for comps that way.

One thing to remember about comps is that policies can change, a mean or lazy suit can screw you, and comps should be viewed as "desserts" not nutritional meals. Sugar, not coffee.

Even in places that include your odds bet in your average bet or that "up" your average bet a bit because you are a nice guy and tip well, comps are variable and always subject to the latest memo or misinterpretation of the latest memo.

To play at 100x you would have to be very well funded, so well funded that you probably would make more money at something else.

One man did the 100x Across bet at Casino Royale every night... ONCE when he got off work as a nearby craps dealer. He would make use of the 100x odds and then walk away.

Quote: mds

Caesars, Cosmo, Harrah's do count odds in your avg...

Expected loss from $25 pass + 3/4/5x odds is about $12.50/hour, or about $50 for a 4-hour session. The average bet at 3/4/5x is just shy of $95. What's it worth to get comped as a $100 player for 4 hours? Do you earn more than $50 in comps? If so, how much more, and in what form?

Can someone please verify with Caesars and Harrah's that they count odds in the "average" wager for rating purposes. Where is Alan when I need him most..

The only casino which used to count odds was Harvey's in Lake Tahoe. That was long ago in a place far far away from me now.

Thanks and waiting. It's important from a room comp point of view. Food doesn't really matter much, it's the room.

Quote: sabre

Sweet. So those dice know when they're going to a different shooter?

I'd be less concerned about beating craps and more concerned that the dice are achieving sentience.

uhh... duh... Try unwinding yourself from the twisted perception you stubbornly hold onto of reality. Craps is merely a reproductive tool dice are using to stave off extinction. You math geeks can suck it... It's all about sex and the desire dice have to perpetuate the species!!

I'm fine with the dice achieving sentience so long as they are on my side and not the casino's

Quote: AxiomOfChoice

Fair enough.

One thing worth considering is, how much are the comps worth? If they include your odds bet, but then comp craps play very poorly, it still might not be worth much.

Also, none of these places offer the 500x odds that were originally mentioned. Getting a rating for 3x-4x-5x odds is nice, but the edge is similar to that of blackjack (of course the game is much slower too).

If you really want to do something like this, I would suggest learning to count a little bit at blackjack (just enough to break even -- you can do this with a small bet spread that will be unnoticed at most places) and play for comps that way.

OH! who has 500x odds?

There are a few places that are still very good with offers and comps. It is significant enough to make a fair amount of money, especially if you bet heavy, but you cant do it all day, every day. The bounce back and offers will cap out at some point, If you stop once that happens then you are now a craps AP.

Quote: AxelWolf

OH! who has 500x odds?

Sorry, typo; I meant 100x.

Casino Royale used to have it. Someone said that their rules changed though; so I dunno.

Quote: AxiomOfChoice

Sorry, typo; I meant 100x.

Casino Royale used to have it. Someone said that their rules changed though; so I dunno.

I was like 500x odds where have I been.

Ya 100x. That would be a nice rate

Quote: Buzzard

" But I'm pretty sure that they are not that dumb. " Casino owners rarely as dumb as crap players. Ever seen Steve Wynn playing craps ?

. not personally, but I believe he was the first player at downtown grands soft opening.

Quote: PhattyD

At an indian casino I frequent, I've noticed a lot of players don't play odds on thier line bets. Might be able to ask these players if I could play behind them. Would be pretty bold, but profitable.

I've done this at a Louisiana Indian casino and in a couple of other locations--no questions asked. You just have to make sure that you explain your moves with the payout when the player decides to start playing the odds. The dealers are not going to split them up for you.

It is a good bet...

I think GVR comps odds on craps.

Quote: NokTang

Can someone please verify with Caesars and Harrah's that they count odds in the "average" wager for rating purposes. Where is Alan when I need him most..

The only casino which used to count odds was Harvey's in Lake Tahoe. That was long ago in a place far far away from me now.

Thanks and waiting. It's important from a room comp point of view. Food doesn't really matter much, it's the room.

Just played at both places 5 weeks ago. Yes, they counted bet + odds as my avg...

For a while the Riviera had 1000x odds, a very sweet proposition I must say, hey hey.

Quote: NokTang

Can someone please verify with Caesars and Harrah's that they count odds in the "average" wager for rating purposes. Where is Alan when I need him most.

About a year or so ago Caesars changed its rules to COUNT ODDS in the average wager for ratings. However, that is only part of the story. Here are other things to consider:

1. NO ONE knows what a dollar bet at table games is worth in comps at Caesars. The "rate" for dollars bet has never been made public. If you have that inside info, please share it.

2. Comps at table games are, at best, arbitrary and capricious and unreasonable (a legal term) because you are at the mercy of the floor person to accurately rate you. I've told the story when I was at Caesars and played for 4 hours and the floorman(men) for one reason or another failed to rate me. And another time I started playing only the passline for the first two shooters and then played my usual full odds with $130/135 across ($25 table) and the floorman rated my average bet as $35 (thirty five dollars).

3. Comps at Craps at Caesars have another "formula" which involves 3 ratings according to how you bet. If you are a passline bettor with odds and place the numbers you get a lower rating than a player who bets hardways and horns, and that player gets a lower rating than a player who makes lots of hop bets and goes heavy on hardway and field and horn numbers.

On New Year's Day I played craps for a short time. Let me tell you exactly what happened because I think it is interesting. As you know on New Year's Day your "tier score" resets to zero. So the first game I played at Caesars on New Year's Day was craps. I bought in for $1,000 at a $25 table. With the first shooter I bet only the passline plus the fire bet for $10 and he made three passes. I did not press. With the second shooter, also $10 fire plus $25 pass and he made one pass. I was the third to shoot. I bet $25 pass and the point was 6. I bet full odds. I also bet $130 across, and yes I had $10 on the fire. I made three passes plus hit some of the numbers. I never pressed any of the numbers and only bet the hard six for $25 when it was my first point (did not hit it, but made a soft 6). I paid off my $1,000 marker and I now had a profit of about $800 (after tips).

After I went to the cage and cashed out my $600 I went to a slot machine and inserted my card and saw that I earned 66 tier points for my session at craps. I will estimate that during my roll I had $260 on average on the table for each roll of the dice... and for the other two shooters just $25 plus the fire.

Had I been playing video poker, to get 66 tier points I would have to put $660 through the machine. ($10 = 1 tier point.) Someone else would have to do the math for me: which game (craps or VP) is better for getting tier points?

The other question is how many comps for my play? Well, I can't answer that. The "comp total" does not reset on New Year's Day and to be honest I didn't check my comps before I started playing craps on New Year's Day so I can't answer that.