Pressing @ 3x,4x, 5x $5 Table On "Hot Shooter"

First, no need to tell me that the dice are always random. Got it. Random sometimes (most) goes against you, sometimes it is even, and a few times, they fall your way.

Two nights ago at the "Inn of the Mountain Gods" in Ruidoso, NM, random fell my way. The casino serves no alcohol on the floor, which was weird. The dice went around the table with the shooter before I bought in (I watched him; I don't buy in during a point) doing well, but the dice came to me and I was out quickly and it was the same around the table. I was down to $100 or so of my $200 buy-in when I got the dice.

I started with a couple of come bets after the point was established. I hit a point and then rolled a seven on the come out, but left my odds bets as place bets when the come bets went away. Then things started to click and I was soon at max odds on all the point numbers. Hit another point; same seven shows an I leave up place bets on all the points. The next sequence, I started pressing because I was $100 up and wanted to go for a bigger win. Added $5 to pass line and full odds on all numbers. Then $15 and full odds.

I ended up coloring up after the roll at $915. It was a good run...

I thought about it and questioned my strategy on this type of table.

If I bet $5 come and then add $5 to the bet to increase my odds bet, that $5 never had the advantage of the initial come out phase--the win on 7 or 11 (though 7 would have been bad overall).

Example on press:

Adding $5/$15 odds on 4/10 = $35 win

Buying $20 on 4/10 = $40 win minus $1 vig on win ($39)

So it seems I was giving up money on the presses I made...darn...it felt good then!!

How do you play in this situation? I rarely get to max odds as a low roller; this was easily one of the largest press situations I have been in.

It was fun and I have no "regrets"...I just want to handle it better when it happens again!!

well


since you feel everything on the table is random...... there may not be a next time.

dicesetter

Look up "Put" bets

If I read correctly, you're talking about "Put" bets.

I don't play like you, but if I were in your situation I would start betting $10 on the come line and just upgrade them as the roll progresses. You don't get the instant increase in your bet size, but you keep the lower HE.

Thank you for not buying in mid-roll. It's not about "luck" - it's about propriety.

Congrats on the big win.

They were not Put bets. They were Place bets using the odds bet amounts that would otherwise be returned because the odds were not working on the come-out.

Not a bad strategy but I like to get all the numbers loaded up (3x4x5x on each), and then start increasing come bets as you go on and off. So a $5 come bet with odds comes down as it hits and you have a $10 come bet ready to go with $30/$40/$50 odds. Increase as needed. It's a slow progression but on a long roll you can really rake in the bucks.

Actually on a $5 3x4x5x table constant table minimum come bets with max odds is quite enough variance for me usually. Have taken down many $500-$700 wins without even pressing. (Don't forget to work the odds on the come out if you can swing it).

Well if the odds were working on the come-out, then he wouldn't have had the capital to make the Place bet, and then would it still be "not a bad strategy"?

Quote: dicesitter

well

since you feel everything on the table is random...... there may not be a next time.

dicesetter

You are correct. Most likely, there will be. Who knows?

Quote: cowboy

Well if the odds were working on the come-out, then he wouldn't have had the capital to make the Place bet, and then would it still be "not a bad strategy"?

Lots of folks think this way. But the truth is that in the universe where he did put bets instead of place bets, the outcome of the dice would have been different from the cascading series of effects of that one difference.

I don't know why people think that you can change one thing and everything else will remain the same.

I think it's just a pattern of thought reinforced by dealers at the casino telling you what you should have done.

But he's not searching for the best strategy for a particular sequence of rolls. He's searching for the best strategy for any sequence of rolls.

Working the comeout has a lower combined edge than not. And at 345x put bets offer no advantage over place bets. In fact, there is a disadvantage to the put bet in that you cannot take the come bet back down if you change your mind later.

Quote: ahiromu

Look up "Put" bets

If I read correctly, you're talking about "Put" bets.

I don't play like you, but if I were in your situation I would start betting $10 on the come line and just upgrade them as the roll progresses. You don't get the instant increase in your bet size, but you keep the lower HE.

Thank you for not buying in mid-roll. It's not about "luck" - it's about propriety.

Congrats on the big win.

Some were not "put" bets; some were "place" bets using "saved odds" when I rolled a "7" on a come out roll. I did not want to be "off" any numbers while establishing new "come" bets after the point was set.

Some were "put" bets--I added $5 to an existing "come" bet so that I could increase the odds in play...those were the bets I questioned the next day, and the link (thanks) reminded me of why it seemed like I had done the wrong thing.

I did increase the "come" and "line" bets also, but there were "put" bets in the mix as I was progressing up the odds bets. Next time, I will just add place bets and move them to the odds as the "come" bets increase.

Or...I will forget and play the same way...

Thanks, all!!

Quote: RonC

(...I don't buy in during a point)

All I can say is Thank You for this.

Quote: RonC

Added $5 to pass line and full odds on all numbers.

It seems to me, it NEVER is a good idea to add money to the pass line so you can increase your true odds amount. Just make the extra money a place bet.

For example, you make a $5 pass line bet, 6 becomes the point. You have $25 dollar odds bet and from your other bets you are doing well and want to increase the amount of money on the 6. I see people - all the time - put more money on the pass line, then a some more on the odds. That is a foolish bet.


Just put all the money you want to add to a the 6 as a place.

The money you press on the pass line is an even money bet and you miss out on the come out (which increases the odds of making this bet a winning proposition) - so without the come out, it is wasted money.

Yeah, of course adding money to your pass line bet is a bad move after the point has been established. Ideally, if allowed, you would take the whole bet down after the come out roll. ;-)

I never buy-in when the puck is on white - I think its rude and disrupts the flow of the game.

But when a shooter makes a point and we go back to black - I will buy in at this point - and usually somebody else is as well. Do you guys feel this is not OK?

Thanks

Quote: Nostron

I never buy-in when the puck is on white - I think its rude and disrupts the flow of the game.

But when a shooter makes a point and we go back to black - I will buy in at this point - and usually somebody else is as well. Do you guys feel this is not OK?

Thanks

That's what I do too. I never buy in when the puck is 'ON' (white). Proper etiquette is to wait for it to go to BLACK, then plop your money down-change please.

Quote: Alan

That's what I do too. I never buy in when the puck is 'ON' (white). Proper etiquette is to wait for it to go to BLACK, then plop your money down-change please.

I used to wait, but I started missing some really good rolls, so I needed to come up with a better plan.

What I do now is get my spot on the table and just get a feel for how fast is the shooter getting the dice.
If it is a super fast table, I will just wait.
But, if it is a normal pace table, I will throw out $60 and ask for a $30 6 and 8. That gets me action on the table, and takes 5 seconds to do.
Then, if either bet wins, I can use the winnings to make other bets.
I will also get the box's attention, and let them know my total buy in amount will be $xxxx at the next opportunity.

Once the shooter 7 outs, I can buy in for the rest of my money.

This does not impact the flow of the game at all, and has allowed me to catch a few tables that were on a roll. On one occasion I was up $300 before I even had a chance to buy in for my full amount. That was a nice start. :-)

Quote: RaleighCraps

What I do now is get my spot on the table and just get a feel for how fast is the shooter getting the dice.
If it is a super fast table, I will just wait.
But, if it is a normal pace table, I will throw out...

That's what I do although (I guess I did it subconsciously) because until this came up here I didn't know it was considered a big no-no to buy-in while the puck is white.

Don't really see why, if it's done as you say. Normal pace, I wait for the stickman to control the dice and then just drop a C-note with my players card on top of it onto the felt in front of me. Then wait for however long it takes for the crew to get to me. If they give me chips right away but the dice are back to the shooter by then, I won't make a bet until after the next roll.

I think a lot of people don't know it's considered a no-no. I think it's inconsiderate, more than a no-no, like blowing your nose at the dinner table. I suppose if it's a slow game, then it's probably not that big a deal. As if everyone got up from the dinner table and left, then you blew your nose...lol

Quote: cowboy

That's what I do although (I guess I did it subconsciously) because until this came up here I didn't know it was considered a big no-no to buy-in while the puck is white.

Don't really see why, if it's done as you say. Normal pace, I wait for the stickman to control the dice and then just drop a C-note with my players card on top of it onto the felt in front of me. Then wait for however long it takes for the crew to get to me. If they give me chips right away but the dice are back to the shooter by then, I won't make a bet until after the next roll.

Craps players being the superstitious lot they are feel that new money into the game in the middle of a roll will upset the mojo.

The problem with throwing the C-note down is, they will count out the chips, and go through the whole process. Of course, the advantage is for $100, you are usually going to get a stack of reds, which happens fairly quickly. But you still have to reach out and get the chips, pull them in, and put them in the rack.

The way I am doing it, I throw 3 $20s on the table, and make a bet for the full amount, no change required. Since it is a small amount, the dealer and box can quickly agree on the $60, and the $30 place 6 and 8 is set up immediately. Half the time the shooter isn't even aware I entered the game this way.

Quote: slackyhacky

It seems to me, it NEVER is a good idea to add money to the pass line so you can increase your true odds amount. Just make the extra money a place bet.

For example, you make a $5 pass line bet, 6 becomes the point. You have $25 dollar odds bet and from your other bets you are doing well and want to increase the amount of money on the 6. I see people - all the time - put more money on the pass line, then a some more on the odds. That is a foolish bet.


Just put all the money you want to add to a the 6 as a place.

The money you press on the pass line is an even money bet and you miss out on the come out (which increases the odds of making this bet a winning proposition) - so without the come out, it is wasted money.

On a point of 6 if you add $5 to your pass line bet then add $25 to your odds a win will pay $35 for the $30 added. Placing a $30 bet on the 6 will also pay $35. Doesn't really matter which way you do it if you're going to leave the bet up until it hits or the shooter throws a 7.

If the casino allows more than 5x odds on the 6 and 8 then it will pay better to add money to your pass line bet and max odds. The difference is relatively small however.

I understand your strategy of turning what would be the returned odds bet as place bets. And why not? You already put the money at risk so why not just leave it out there.

But others might say one of these:
1. It is now at a disadvantage with a bigger house edge, so why not take it back?
2. Why not use it for a new come bet with a lower house edge?
3. Why not just put the chips back in your pocket?

A more general question might be when and how do you press? I personally don't use come bets only because the number has to be rolled once for the bet to be set, and a second time for the bet to be paid. And when you are making come bets with odds that can mean some big exposure if the numbers dont repeat. But I can't disagree with come betting as it also has its advantages.

Quote: AlanMendelson

I understand your strategy of turning what would be the returned odds bet as place bets. And why not? You already put the money at risk so why not just leave it out there.

But others might say one of these:
1. It is now at a disadvantage with a bigger house edge, so why not take it back?
2. Why not use it for a new come bet with a lower house edge?
3. Why not just put the chips back in your pocket?

A more general question might be when and how do you press? I personally don't use come bets only because the number has to be rolled once for the bet to be set, and a second time for the bet to be paid. And when you are making come bets with odds that can mean some big exposure if the numbers don't repeat. But I can't disagree with come betting as it also has its advantages.

I see the point in all three questions. The easiest answer I have for number 3 is...I have already won money and am "up" a lot on this shooter...now I am going for a bigger win. Number 2 is already happening--I will get a come bet out as soon as the point is established. Number one is...I want to take a shot at a bigger win. I'd rather be up $600 than up $300 without taking a shot at $600. If I could play craps more often that might be different, but I can only play 10 or so times a year...so taking the chance for a larger win is more important TO ME than the other considerations.

I usually do 1-2 come bets and a pass line bet. I don't see come betting as a number having to hit twice; it only has to hit once after it is established. I play fairly conservatively and miss some decent rolls but I get more aggressive when I am rolling or when I have a decent win from a roll...I start pressing at that point. Not too bold at first, but moving up each time I get a win. Collect the green chips and press the red chips at my level of play...

Quote: RonC

I don't see come betting as a number having to hit twice; it only has to hit once after it is established.

this is the great debate.

for the come bettor these are the options on the first roll:
1. natural number and bet is paid
2. craps number and the bet is lost
3. bet moves to a number for the "point" and that number must roll again for the bet to be paid

for the place bettor these are the options for the first roll after the place bets are made:
1. 7 is rolled and the bets are lost
2. number is rolled and the bet is won
3. craps or 11 is rolled and there is no effect
4. another number is rolled and there is no effect

Choose your poison.

Quote: AlanMendelson

this is the great debate.

for the come bettor these are the options on the first roll:
1. natural number and bet is paid
2. craps number and the bet is lost
3. bet moves to a number for the "point" and that number must roll again for the bet to be paid

for the place bettor these are the options for the first roll after the place bets are made:
1. 7 is rolled and the bets are lost
2. number is rolled and the bet is won
3. craps or 11 is rolled and there is no effect
4. another number is rolled and there is no effect

Choose your poison.

The odds of the game favor one thing; they also favor betting the don't but you have to do what you are comfortable with knowing the odds.

I place a horn high twelve with a dealer yo on some come out rolls...sometimes it saves the day!! Bad bet? You betcha. Like i said...10 or so days of craps a year and I am going to have fun while knowing when I place a "bad bet"...