Another Craps Side Bet to evaluate

{edited}The SOSI Bet^sm is under construction.

A fine tuned explaination will be revised and reposted in the future.

Thanks for all the comments posted here.

OLD INFO REMOVED

I have already seen a version of this bet in play. I think it is called "Trip Sevens" or something like that. Basically, it pays on three consecutive sevens. Odds against 215-1. Pays 200-1 I think.

Quote: NewToCraps

So it is a bet on rolling consecutive 7's.

It looks to me
to be a bet on *when* the 7out will take place and then 7 winners in a row

Quote: NewToCraps

Roll: Seven-out
Payout: none

PLUS

Provides some relief for a seven-out roll.
MINUS

You tell me.

I see ZERO relief on a 7 out. a right way player lost all of his bets.(except the last come)
The 7out-7win bet paid 0 on the 7out roll
'some relief" you have to do better than that

and a new shooter begins his hand.
what happens if there is no new shooter?
everyone was all-in and lost.
It happens with real $$$

Quote: 7craps

It looks to me
to be a bet on *when* the 7out will take place and then 7 winners in a row

Quote: NewToCraps

Roll: Seven-out
Payout: none

PLUS

Provides some relief for a seven-out roll.
MINUS

You tell me.

I see ZERO relief on a 7 out. a right way player lost all of his bets.(except the last come)
The 7out-7win bet paid 0 on the 7out roll
'some relief" you have to do better than that

and a new shooter begins his hand.
what happens if there is no new shooter?
everyone was all-in and lost.
It happens with real $$$

I should have said "possibly some relief" which I know POSSIBLY pays nothing, but the possible gamble to get a payout is there.
Would a 3-1 payout on the seven-out make a difference?
The key to the bet is the possible jackpot payout. Having some chips stay on the rable after a 7-out is just an illusion of not being a loser on that seven-out.

Yes, it is a timing bet at the start - trying to figure out "when" the seven-out will be rolled.
Similar to the single roll prop bets that are all about the timing. BUT it isn't a single roll bet.

Quote: NewToCraps

Having some chips stay on the table after a 7-out is just an illusion of not being a loser on that seven-out.

Yes, it is a timing bet at the start - trying to figure out "when" the seven-out will be rolled.
Similar to the single roll prop bets that are all about the timing. BUT it isn't a single roll bet.

Looks to me it can be a single roll bet.
and all Craps players know when they are losing.

example:
New shooter.
I bet $10 pass
cor is a 6 (point is 6)
I bet $25 odds

I assume one can NOW make a 7o7win bet once a point is established.
I bet $5 on it
next roll 8
I lose the 7o7win bet. Single roll. bet lost

I bet another $5
next roll 3 = push
next roll 10
I lose the 7o7win bet (down $10 on the new bet)

I bet another $5
next roll is the 7 out.

I lost my pass with odds and 2 7o7win bets
down $45
but I still have a $5 7o7win bet active

next roll is a 7 winner
I let it ride. I do not choose the 28 to 1 payoff
Next roll is an 11 winner.
I now just lost my let it ride 7o7win and I get nothing for my first 7 winner?
yucks

The biggest problem to me is you now have right-way players making a bet that wants to see a 7-out. Personally I hate any sidebet in any game that bets against my main game bet. I think the firebet is beautiful in that it tracks right along beside the craps game, the better a roll the better the sidebet does.

In this case if I place a SISO bet I’m now wanting a 7-out to come on the next roll causing all my right way bets (save come bets) to lose, I guess you can call it a hedge but if I make the bet and “win” the first leg I’m usually pretty upset because I’ve lost all my bets and I won’t remember the “winning” feeling to get me hooked. Second, craps players are extremely superstitious! I can see one player betting this and the others getting extremely upset with him because he’s “betting against them” and if the 7-out does come many players will blame the SISO bettor for “causing the 7”. After a few rounds of glares and verbal abuse I can see the bettor being much less likely to continue to make this bet in the future. For this reason alone I can almost guarantee you I would never play this bet.

@7craps

In that context it is a single roll bet, but then any bet could then be called a single roll bet. If the bet is a pass line bet and a 2 is rolled. Single roll bet lost

My definition of a single roll bet is one the all 36 possible rolls result in a win or loss. If the bet has one or more outcomes that don't result in a win or a loss, it is not a single roll bet.

As I have said before (my disclaimer), I am new to craps and comments like yours are how I am learning. So I may be wrong about what a single roll bet is.

I played the same simulated rolls as you stated, but I did collect the 28 to 1 payout and got $140 that covered the $45 you were down plus won a bit.
I told my wife about the "simulation" you gave and she did not choose the 28 to 1 payout, but got a 7 where you got an 11, she then collected a $850 payout.
Had my son do it as well and he got a 7 where you got an 11, he let it go all the way, and 7 came out again .... $5,000 payout !!!!!

It is like any bet, you could show it losing, or show it winning. What kinda counts is what the math says about it - HE, odds, etc. What REALLY counts is what happens at the table - if we WIN or LOSE, and for me - did I have FUN cause in the long run I will LOSE.

Was part of your point the fact that an 11 did not win my bet, even though standard craps rules makes us think an 11 should win everybet on a come out roll?

That is why I wondered if people thought that it should be a Seven Out Seven In-Yo Bet.

Thanks again for your comments ... you have been helpful on both my bet ideas (plus I enjoy trying to debate them with you - I think you may have the upper hand on that).

This is what I need and want - good in depth analysis of my ideas.

PS - I would only make $1 SOSI bets.

Jim

Quote: NewToCraps

I played the same simulated rolls as you stated, but I did collect the 28 to 1 payout and got $140 that covered the $45 you were down plus won a bit.
I told my wife about the "simulation" you gave and she did not choose the 28 to 1 payout, but got a 7 where you got an 11, she then collected a $850 payout.
Had my son do it as well and he got a 7 where you got an 11, he let it go all the way, and 7 came out again .... $5,000 payout !!!!!

It is like any bet, you could show it losing, or show it winning.

I was trying to understand the rules on the wins.
I let the bet ride after first 7winner.
possible results
either win 0 or 170 to 1. correct?
After a 7 winner and I let it ride for the 170 to 1 payout and an 11 rolls (or any non-7) I have nothing to show for.

The Fire bet is popular because once you get the 4th point
(a few are 3 points) I am a winner and can only win more and not lose on the next 7out.

your bet IMO grinds against the right way players (because they are betting for a 7out)
what right way players want a 7out??? not me
and forces them to risk a sure 28 to 1 win for a higher jackpot,
more like Deal or No Deal.
No Deal


try to introduce this bet at a free casino night party (I deal at many of them each year)
and see how players like it or not.
I bet $1 that most (over 50%) will not like the bet because they are not that good
at knowing the exact roll the shooter will 7out on.

Good Luck

See this site for a Triple 7's bet on an alternate dice game that got some trials but has since been pulled. Not sure if they have any current placements. Per the website, they appear to have modified the game to fit on a regular BJ sized table.

How to Play Scossa

Realizing the SOSI bet is slightly different in that it waits for the first 7 Out to be rolled before being activated, I think you will still have some IP issues securing rights to a bet that pays on the roll of three 7's.

As others have indicated, I don't think this bet conceptually feels right to craps betters. I play craps and this bet doesn't appeal to me. Unless you are a "dark sider" (the minority of players) you don't bet on the 7 roll occurring......you just don't!

Just my humble opinion, so value it for the price you paid to get it :-)!

Maybe this was where I saw it. Remembered it from somewhere.

Yeah, that was exactly where I saw it. Thanks for finding it.

I, too, thought of Scossa, as they had this side bet, essentially.
Let me say this:
1. It may be hard to work around Brill Entertainment Scossa's Intellectual Property for a specific "repeating 7's" bet. Again, side bets are trickier to patent and protect, but developers make an effort to respond and protect their IP.

2. Yup, the bet can be sloppily simulated, but with poorer value, by pressing an Any-7 bet.

3. The quick 'n' high payoffs allow for more turnover (more action for the casino) than "slow 'n' high" payoff bets like the Fire bet, Replay, sharp shooter, all tall all small type bets. Casinos LIKE fast decision bets.

4. If it got out, many crapshooters would play it on the come out roll, just to be positive in nature, or at least, non-negative.

Quote: Paigowdan

4. If it got out, many crapshooters would play it on the come out roll,
just to be positive in nature, or at least, non-negative.

The 7out7win bet may (should) not be available on the cor
especially the cor after a 7out. game security here needed.
It is made that the next roll will be a 7out and if a non7 rolls (excluding the 2,3,11,12) it is lost.

The other concept the OP needs to understand is the bet is for the casino.

sure it needs to be fun for the players, seems to win at an OK rate,
but the final say comes down to does it make money for the house and enough money for the time given to it.

a 1000 to 1 payout at less than 5%HE would only give a casino about a 55% chance of showing a profit after 10k wagers.
That means 45% would not show a profit after 10k wagers... not counting the cost of having the bet.
10k is relatively a small number but not to a casino suit who thinks the bet is not winning. It is gone.

Even the Fire bet was pulled out of many casinos after multiple early player 6 point wins with a 20% HE.
The Fitz Downtown to name one. They pulled it from both tables a few years back. How soon many forget.

IMO casinos really do not like 'too much' variance
and this 1000 to 1 bet has a variance of about 927 and a standard deviation of over 30!
players love the very low ev/sd
The 4 point Fire comes in around 16.4 for the SD.
Casinos are not falling over themselves to have it (Fire Bet) installed either.

7out7win, it might work well with the Fire, players would have a choice of both and
most craps players know about fast 7outs followed my multiple 7 winners.
"Best time to get those 7s out of the way, on the come out roll!"
"Yep, get them 7s out of your system"
3 7 winners in a row right after a 7out and BOOM
1000 to 1
In the Bank

Good Luck

Quote: 7craps

The 7out7win bet may (should) not be available on the cor
especially the cor after a 7out. game security here needed.
It is made that the next roll will be a 7out and if a non7 rolls (excluding the 2,3,11,12) it is lost.

The other concept the OP needs to understand is the bet is for the casino.

sure it needs to be fun for the players, seems to win at an OK rate,
but the final say comes down to does it make money for the house and enough money for the time given to it.

a 1000 to 1 payout at less than 5%HE would only give a casino about a 55% chance of showing a profit after 10k wagers.
That means 45% would not show a profit after 10k wagers... not counting the cost of having the bet.
10k is relatively a small number but not to a casino suit who thinks the bet is not winning. It is gone.

Even the Fire bet was pulled out of many casinos after multiple early player 6 point wins with a 20% HE.
The Fitz Downtown to name one. They pulled it from both tables a few years back. How soon many forget.

IMO casinos really do not like 'too much' variance
and this 1000 to 1 bet has a variance of about 927 and a standard deviation of over 30!
players love the very low ev/sd
The 4 point Fire comes in around 16.4 for the SD.
Casinos are not falling over themselves to have it (Fire Bet) installed either.

7out7win, it might work well with the Fire, players would have a choice of both and
most craps players know about fast 7outs followed my multiple 7 winners.
"Best time to get those 7s out of the way, on the come out roll!"
"Yep, get them 7s out of your system"
3 7 winners in a row right after a 7out and BOOM
1000 to 1
In the Bank

Good Luck

Interesting comments ...

SOSI can only be established during the point phase when the point has been established and before the point is made or a seven out is rolled. It can not be taken down, reduced, turned off, and it can not be increased or established after a seven out (not on the come out).

SOSI original post now includes my different versions,
so some of the info has been changed and
I added a picture of the layout also.