Playing the DarkSide... Racist Bigots and Craps
Was I offended, you betcha... but who am I going to tell? No positive side of that conversation. Frankly I was in shock at the realization.
It makes me wonder if this is a common occurance. Free speech and personal liberty and all... (er wait, istn't that free responsible speech. You can't yell fire in a crowded theater just to see folks panic.) Do you have the right to be a racist bigot in public? And heres a question.. If the casino sees and recognizes this behavior, say after the dice travel around the table a couple of times, do they have an obligation to "not endorse the practice of overt racism" by asking the bigot shooter to leave the table?
Anybody else seen this? Your comments?
--Zip
Quote: Zip2it
It makes me wonder if this is a common occurance. Free speech and personal liberty and all... (er wait, istn't that free responsible speech. You can't yell fire in a crowded theater just to see folks panic.) Do you have the right to be a racist bigot in public? And heres a question.. If the casino sees and recognizes this behavior, say after the dice travel around the table a couple of times, do they have an obligation to "not endorse the practice of overt racism" by asking the bigot shooter to leave the table?
Anybody else seen this? Your comments?
--Zip
I don't think it's that common. His betting actions are acceptable in public. Sad, but acceptable. Maybe he thinks black people just are unlucky today. Obviously that's probably not true and he probably always bets against black people, but who knows, he might be an idiot that plays all types of hunches in different spots. The casino has no reason to kick him out as long as he doesn't provoke the table about it, which I assumed he didn't because you sound like you were the only one who noticed.
Personally I think playing the don't vs. anyone sucks the life out of a person since now you're against most (sometimes all) of the table and what's the fun in that?
Quote: tringlomanePersonally I think playing the don't vs. anyone sucks the life out of a person since now you're against most (sometimes all) of the table and what's the fun in that?
The dice will settle all bets regardless of what bets are made.
As to the rest, you never know what kind of superstitions drive someone else's betting. For all you know this guy once bet the don't when a black person was shooting and cleaned up.
One time I saw a couple playing don't pass "against" all shooters. when it was the man's turn to shoot, they switched to pass line bets. I figured they were setting the dice. Not quite. The man carefully set the dice, then shook them in his hand before throwing them. I forget what happened next. When it was my turn to shoot, they switched back to the dark side. I forget what happened next, too.
And I'd still like to get a WoV team togetehr to all play the don't. Alas, we won't ever be able to do that if Doc comes along, and I'd rather have Doc along.
Quote: Zip2itHad a new one yesterday. I was watching a craps game on Fremont street in Vegas, but this posting is more about the customers than it is about the casino. I was closely watching how others at the table were betting. There was one there person who would play the "Don't pass" game whenever a black person was throwing the dice. White skin shooter = pass line bet. Black skin shooter = don't pass. Hmm... quite a way to be a bigot in public, no? Am I positive of this behavior, not at all.. Had I stayed and watched the dice go around the table three or four times, I'd be sure, but that can take a very long time to happen. So no, I'm not 100% positive that is what was happening, (call me 95% sure) but it sure peaked my curiousity. There was no drama involved, I don't think anybody else even noticed.
Was I offended, you betcha... but who am I going to tell? No positive side of that conversation. Frankly I was in shock at the realization.
It makes me wonder if this is a common occurance. Free speech and personal liberty and all... (er wait, istn't that free responsible speech. You can't yell fire in a crowded theater just to see folks panic.) Do you have the right to be a racist bigot in public? And heres a question.. If the casino sees and recognizes this behavior, say after the dice travel around the table a couple of times, do they have an obligation to "not endorse the practice of overt racism" by asking the bigot shooter to leave the table?
Anybody else seen this? Your comments?
--Zip
I wasn't there...and you were obviously. But maybe this is just a case of small sample size. Dangerous to label someone a racist based on a few dark side bets. No pun intended. To answer your question yes. It's a free country you have the right to be a racist bigoted a-hole in public as much as you'd like. Other people also have the right to shun you and call you out for your behavior.
He made a betting decision based on race, but who cares?
You are the one discriminating against Don't bettors!
Quote: FinsRuleHow is it racist?!?!
He made a betting decision based on race, but who cares?
You are the one discriminating against Don't bettors!
I totally agree, How is this racist? I don't think any betting pattern can be considered racist.
I don't play craps but if I did, I would play the dark side all the time simply because of the so so slight odds advantage. I don't believe in cheering and moaning with other gamblers, I believe in winning so I look at the odds and try to make the best bet possible. Thank you Wizard of odds.
Any gambler on a whim can bet light side on a shooter he likes the look of and dark side on a shooter he doesn't like the looks of, who cares.
Quote: treetopbuddyI will only play craps when blacks are playing. Superstitious I guess. Some blacks will let me rub their hair for luck before I take the dice.
A lot of people will bet the don't except women are shooting. Never bet againist a woman shooter. So does that make them male chauvinist ?
Quote: NokTangA lot of people will bet the don't except women are shooting. Never bet againist a woman shooter. So does that make them male chauvinist ?
Um, no, it actually makes them the opposite because if they were male chauvinist, they would always bet the "don't" vs. them, and likely bet the "pass" with men. Nevertheless, the "luck" of female shooters (especially new ones) is very strong in craps history, and the longest documented craps roll is also currently held by a female, Patricia DeMauro.
She apparently broke the (unofficially documented) record of "The Captain":
This now begs the question: Did there happen to be a black woman at the table, and if so, did the bigot also wager the "don't" against her?
Quote: tringlomaneUm, no, it actually makes them the opposite because if they were male chauvinist, they would always bet the "don't" vs. them, and likely bet the "pass" with men. ?
Depends how you look/feel at it. If you are a don't player except when a woman is shooting, it implies you think there is something different about women shooters and they are just and simply stupid.
Quote: NokTangDepends how you look/feel at it. If you are a don't player except when a woman is shooting, it implies you think there is something different about women shooters and they are just and simply stupid.
But the definition of male chauvinism is that: "men are superior to women". In craps, you generally bet "superior" shooters on the pass line, no?
Also: If the man is single, and the woman is single, it would also be slightly more stupid to bet against her unless he is gay. Then he can do whatever he pleases.
When I'm at the table I can barely keep track of my own bets, let alone everyone else. But then I really don't care what they are betting anyway.
I guess it would help if we knew more about you since this was your first post (and only one so far). Some people are rightfully offended over things that should offend them; others are looking to be offended at every turn.
Quote: tringlomaneBut the definition of male chauvinism is that: "men are superior to women". In craps, you generally bet "superior" shooters on the pass line, no?
Also: If the man is single, and the woman is single, it would also be slightly more stupid to bet against her unless he is gay. Then he can do whatever he pleases.
Generally, if you think a shooter is "hot" or going to be "hot" I suppose you would bet on his/her shot, as in making points. However, if you somehow know she is "single" or lets say a hooker, and you are looking for a hooker, then chauvinism has to play a role.
The conclusion would have to be that your inability to look at the shooter color and gender blind is impaired at best. Racist and chauvinist more likely.
Quote: Zip2it
Was I offended, you betcha... but who am I going to tell? No positive side of that conversation. Frankly I was in shock at the realization.
It makes me wonder if this is a common occurance. Free speech and personal liberty and all... (er wait, istn't that free responsible speech. You can't yell fire in a crowded theater just to see folks panic.) Do you have the right to be a racist bigot in public? And heres a question.. If the casino sees and recognizes this behavior, say after the dice travel around the table a couple of times, do they have an obligation to "not endorse the practice of overt racism" by asking the bigot shooter to leave the table?
Anybody else seen this? Your comments?
--Zip
What is sad is that you or any other person would find something so trivial offensive and "racist."
Frankly I find it halarious, and thank you for giving mea new way to bet and keep the game interesting!
Seriously, anyone who finds this offensive needs to get a life and MYBO.
My comments? This thread is not about craps or playing the dark side in craps. So I'm staying away from any discussions unrelated to gambling.Quote: Zip2itYour comments?
Quote: AZDuffmanWhat is sad is that you or any other person would find something so trivial offensive and "racist."
Frankly I find it halarious, and thank you for giving mea new way to bet and keep the game interesting!
Seriously, anyone who finds this offensive needs to get a life and MYBO.
Remember, Racism is usually defined as views, practices and actions reflecting the belief that humanity is divided into distinct biological groups called races and that members of a certain race share certain attributes which make that group as a whole less desirable, more desirable, inferior, or superior. (ref: wikipedia)
You said 'giving me a new way to bet', with that I take you to mean that you are going to bet on Craps with a strategy that implies that a person with black skin is going to throw a losing game more often than a person of any other race. (I'd clearly call that an 'attribute which makes the group as a whole less desirable'..)
I have an idea. Let's test this theory.
We meet together at the casino. Heck, I'll even bankroll you $50. You go ahead and bet "don't pass" for all the black folks at the table, then bet "pass" for everyone else. Let the dice go around the table a few times.
After we're done, I explain to the table that we were conducting a test and describe what just happened. I think that behavior is racist and inappropriate, you don't think so. We ask the folks at the table what do they think. Does anybody find this behavior racist or offensive?
Two requirements:
--I pick the table.
--Your personal health insurance premium must be paid and up to date.
Quote: Zip2it
--Your personal health insurance premium must be paid and up to date.
To use a common texting phrase.... "LOL"
Why would his health insurance have to be paid and up to date?
Because those he offended would be prone to violence?
Would you say that if he was betting the do's for black rollers and the don'ts for white rollers?
Quote: Zip2it
You said 'giving me a new way to bet', with that I take you to mean that you are going to bet on Craps with a strategy that implies that a person with black skin is going to throw a losing game more often than a person of any other race. (I'd clearly call that an 'attribute which makes the group as a whole less desirable'..)
No, i mean that I know the difference in playing pass/don't is to the thousands place (that is .00x for those of you in Rio Linda) and it is a fun way to drive loser pinheads who are waiting to be offended crazy.
I think 99% of cries of "racism" are silly and useless. Get over it.
Quote: Zip2itRemember, Racism is usually defined as views, practices and actions reflecting the belief that humanity is divided into distinct biological groups called races and that members of a certain race share certain attributes which make that group as a whole less desirable, more desirable, inferior, or superior. (ref: wikipedia)
You said 'giving me a new way to bet', with that I take you to mean that you are going to bet on Craps with a strategy that implies that a person with black skin is going to throw a losing game more often than a person of any other race. (I'd clearly call that an 'attribute which makes the group as a whole less desirable'..)
I have an idea. Let's test this theory.
We meet together at the casino. Heck, I'll even bankroll you $50. You go ahead and bet "don't pass" for all the black folks at the table, then bet "pass" for everyone else. Let the dice go around the table a few times.
After we're done, I explain to the table that we were conducting a test and describe what just happened. I think that behavior is racist and inappropriate, you don't think so. We ask the folks at the table what do they think. Does anybody find this behavior racist or offensive?
Two requirements:
--I pick the table.
--Your personal health insurance premium must be paid and up to date.
I'll take you up on that. Seriously. I'm not a huge craps player but I know how to play and have played a little. It will be fun playing with somebody elses money. Will be in Vegas 2nd week Nov. Why explain anything to the table. Just play and bet and hopefully win. Lets just see how nothing happens after the experiment. Lets say I came out ahead due to playing the dark side, nothing would happen. Side bet due to health insurance requirement, I win 50 if untouched , you win 50 if somebody touches me in threatening way.
By the way, I'm not exactly white, bi-racial.
Speaking of black craps players, I always enjoy the old black guy who yells out "CIX!" "TIN!" and generally is in a good mood. Losing is more fun when everyone is cheering for the point but seven out.
Almost all of the freedoms and rights that we enjoy today were highly offensive to many people not that long ago. We changed this county and world because folks were allowed to say in the mid 1800’s slavery is wrong and again in the mid 1900’s that all should have equal rights. Those were very offensive words to many in that time period. Thank God there was no person with the power to find their speech offensive and ban it from public places.
I’m not implying that the don’t bettor was abusing his freedom but with all freedom’s come folks who will abuse them. They must be tolerated because once we start to limit their freedom we will soon loose ours too.
Quote: wrongway
I’m not implying that the don’t bettor was abusing his freedom but with all freedom’s come folks who will abuse them. They must be tolerated because once we start to limit their freedom we will soon loose ours too.
How could it be considered "abusing his freedom?" I still fail to see any problem. If you don't like a person betting the Don't when you shoot, find another table or better yet consider trying a different game.
Next thing you know someone will claim "Blackjack" is racist and offensive, demanding we call it "21."
That this thread even started kind of shows what a wussified nation we are becoming.
This may just be a trend...but every time I'm at a craps table in Baltimore that is how it goes down. Personally, I just don't play when the players are trying to roll a loser. I have no idea how to play that way as I believe the best way to play is to hope for a 6 or 8 on your initial roll and back up your bet to the max on the pass line. Plus, it is so awesome when you get a hot roller. No fun hoping for a crap out.
1) I'm white, and I play the DP 95% of the time I play craps.Quote: jim.smithI am an amateur player but have played enough to notice trends. For some reason, I have noticed that many African American players play don't pass, even on themselves. They bang the dice around with no skill trying to roll a 7. Of course my sample size is in Baltimore area casinos..not all of the world. So, there might be logic to this person's playing style. On the other hand most Caucasian players do play the pass line.
This may just be a trend...but every time I'm at a craps table in Baltimore that is how it goes down. Personally, I just don't play when the players are trying to roll a loser. I have no idea how to play that way as I believe the best way to play is to hope for a 6 or 8 on your initial roll and back up your bet to the max on the pass line. Plus, it is so awesome when you get a hot roller. No fun hoping for a crap out.
2) So you're saying instead of "banging the dice around with no skill" you can set and throw them with skill? lol, got any video proof of this?
3) The dice are unbiased (hopefully) and the most likely number is 7. The DP is mathematically slightly better than the Pass line. So if you'd like to get technical your 6 & 8 strategy is definitely not the best strategy for the game. Rooting for the 7 is the most fun you can have because you're the favorite most of the time. You win a lot more often, you just win less.
4) This thread is a couple years old, and you revived it with this...
maybe you did mean 'crap out' but it is not usually said that way but 'rolling craps' or similar ... and no reason not to say '7 out' too, if only to insure nobody thinks you used 'crap out' in place of it
I disagree. There is nothing like being behind a bunch of numbers and then seeing that ugly 7. Then waiting as the dealers pay each bet, stack up all the chips, and slide that monster red & white barber pole to me.Quote: jim.smithNo fun hoping for a crap out.
I actually play the right side most of the time, but occasional play the Don'ts. I think the most fun I've ever had at a Craps table was once at the Mirage when the whole table was playing the Don't. A few people even came up to the table preparing to play the Pass, and we convinced them to play the Don'ts instead. The table was ice cold for a while and everyone won by losing! Fun!
I wouldn't be so hard on Mr. Smith -- it's all James Bond's fault. In the Craps scene in Diamonds are Forever, after her PSO, the Stick says Plenty "Crapped out" (around 1:21 in the clip). I think this firmly lodged the incorrect lingo into America's consciousness.Quote: odiousgambitand I think you mean "7 out" ... get that terminology right or get disrespected
maybe you did mean 'crap out' but it is not usually said that way but 'rolling craps' or similar ... and no reason not to say '7 out' too, if only to insure nobody thinks you used 'crap out' in place of it
Quote: jim.smithI am an amateur player but have played enough to notice trends. For some reason, I have noticed that many African American players play don't pass, even on themselves. They bang the dice around with no skill trying to roll a 7. Of course my sample size is in Baltimore area casinos..not all of the world. So, there might be logic to this person's playing style. On the other hand most Caucasian players do play the pass line.
This may just be a trend...but every time I'm at a craps table in Baltimore that is how it goes down. Personally, I just don't play when the players are trying to roll a loser. I have no idea how to play that way as I believe the best way to play is to hope for a 6 or 8 on your initial roll and back up your bet to the max on the pass line. Plus, it is so awesome when you get a hot roller. No fun hoping for a crap out.
I am Caucasian.
I play craps
I play the dark side exclusively
Its the best bet on the table mathematically.
My bet is completely independent from how anybody else is betting.
I could care less how everybody else is betting. They want to give the house a higher edge, that's their business
I am betting on the result of a dice throw. Not the thrower.
Everybody at the table should be betting DP. Its the best bet
Then everybody can high five each other
I masterfully suck at craps. It's often been said if I was allowed to just keep shooting after my 7 out we could become millionaires.Quote: odiousgambitif the whole table can agree that the dice should be passed back around to the guy who 7'd out [darkside winner] then it's the perfect world
But it's fun to play the Don't and lay on the double odds at a tilt.
Quote: GreasyjohnI occasionally play the Don't, and when I do I let the shooter establish the point, then play the Don't Come. That was I'm not "rooting" against the shooter.
Same here, especially the ones next to me.
Quote: terapinedI play craps
I play the dark side exclusively
Its the best bet on the table mathematically.
Everybody at the table should be betting DP. Its the best bet
Mathematically by the slimmest of margins. Highly doubt you could notice the difference over a lifetime of play.
I think more importantly is, was this system working?Quote: Zip2itHad a new one yesterday. I was watching a craps game on Fremont street in Vegas, but this posting is more about the customers than it is about the casino. I was closely watching how others at the table were betting. There was one there person who would play the "Don't pass" game whenever a black person was throwing the dice. White skin shooter = pass line bet. Black skin shooter = don't pass. Hmm... quite a way to be a bigot in public, no?
Quote: terapinedI am Caucasian.
I play craps
I play the dark side exclusively
Its the best bet on the table mathematically.
My bet is completely independent from how anybody else is betting.
I could care less how everybody else is betting. They want to give the house a higher edge, that's their business
I am betting on the result of a dice throw. Not the thrower.
Everybody at the table should be betting DP. Its the best bet
Then everybody can high five each other
Amen.
Quote: JoemanI disagree. There is nothing like being behind a bunch of numbers and then seeing that ugly 7. Then waiting as the dealers pay each bet, stack up all the chips, and slide that monster red & white barber pole to me.
I actually play the right side most of the time, but occasional play the Don'ts. I think the most fun I've ever had at a Craps table was once at the Mirage when the whole table was playing the Don't. A few people even came up to the table preparing to play the Pass, and we convinced them to play the Don'ts instead. The table was ice cold for a while and everyone won by losing! Fun!
Agree 100%.
Quote: GreasyjohnI occasionally play the Don't, and when I do I let the shooter establish the point, then play the Don't Come. That way I'm not "rooting" against the shooter. And I always lay double odds.
But it's fun to play the Don't and lay on the double odds at a tilt.
Me too. I love it when the shooter makes his point and then I go cheer for the next come up 7 (which makes my DC win, of course).
Darth
Only stress is the come out
If I survive that, I am very relaxed because now the odds are in my favor
In fact the majority of rolls are in the dark side favor
Way more rolls trying to hit a point rather then setting the point
I've bet the don't pass & don't come for as long as I can remember. When I didn't nothing would irritate me more than to have the numbers loaded up (quite often on every number) with the pass and come bets and always at full odds, just to watch some jerk seven out and watch every chip I had go down the toilet.
I bet the dark side. There is that one catch of surviving the come out roll but it's done with a minimum bet. All the odds are established once things are in your favor and if the shooter sevens out on the second roll when you're on the don't come then you still win the first bet.
I'd rather do that, knowing that the odds are on my side, than site there praying for that 1 in 1000 roll that lasts an hour. I've gotten nailed now and then but it's a rare occurrence.
Also, if I win I don't keep it to myself. I'm not rude about it, but I'll show that I'm happy to win. It's nice to see all the chips get collected from the others and then watch some of them come to me (always at full odds). Do the other players like it-absolutely not-but to hell with them. It's a perfectly legal bet. Also, I don't pass the dice just because I'm on the dark side. I'll shoot them when they come to me.
Yeah yeah, I'm the leper at the table. Ask me if I care.
Am disappointed :)
Well, at least I was, I really can't speak for the rest..
Good luck!
Welcome to the board. Thanks for your observations and info. I appreciate it!
So you are saying the African American players play smarter and don't wast everyone's time setting the dice?Quote: jim.smithI am an amateur player but have played enough to notice trends. For some reason, I have noticed that many African American players play don't pass, even on themselves. They bang the dice around with no skill trying to roll a 7. Of course my sample size is in Baltimore area casinos..not all of the world. So, there might be logic to this person's playing style. On the other hand most Caucasian players do play the pass line.
This may just be a trend...but every time I'm at a craps table in Baltimore that is how it goes down. Personally, I just don't play when the players are trying to roll a loser. I have no idea how to play that way as I believe the best way to play is to hope for a 6 or 8 on your initial roll and back up your bet to the max on the pass line. Plus, it is so awesome when you get a hot roller. No fun hoping for a crap out.
