Put bet question
Specifically, I am thinking of taking a few shots at WoVCon, making some aggressive come bets with high odds.
I am wondering if Casino Royale would allow me to keep my come bets up under the following scenario: shooter makes his point, and on the ensuing come out, trying to establish a new point, he rolls a natural seven.
Say I have four come bets up, at ten bucks each (plus odds, which are "off" on the come out): can I toss forty dollars to the dealer and ask him to "put" my four come bets, to keep them up?
I should think this would be no problem, unless the amount of odds I have bet is greater than five times.
And a reminder to place bet players: When you're playing at a casino like Casino Royale where they allow 100x odds (20x odds if the base bet is less than $5), you should be making put bets instead of places bets. The payoff is better.
It's generally a break-even proposition at best compared to just placing the number instead.
There are, however, some places that offer 10x that will allow put bets.
a $5 put bet on with $50 odds on a four wins $105. A $55 buy wins $107. ($2 advantage to the buy bet even at 10x odds)
a $5 put bet with $15 odds on a four wins $35. A $20 buy bet wins $39. ($4 advantage to the buy bet on 345x table)
a $5 put bet on with $50 odds on a five wins $80. A $55 place bet on the five wins $77. ($3 advantage for the put bet here for every $5 put on a 10x table).
a $5 put bet on with $20 odds on a five wins $35. A $25 place bet on the five wins $35. (put bet is break-even to place bet on 345x table at max odds)
a $5 put bet on with $50 odds on a six wins $65. A $55 place bet on the six wins $64. ($1 advantage for the put bet here with a full $50 odds).
a $5 put bet on with $25 odds on a six wins $35. A $30 place bet on the six wins $35. (put bet is break-even to place bet on 345x table at max odds)
So really, it's the 5 and 9 with better than 4x odds that you come out ahead on the put bet. And you win an extra dollar on the 6 and 8 with 10x odds.
But all these places where you could take advantage of it (that I know of) don't let you do put bets. And example is Joker's Wild. Put bets disallowed!
I am sure there are places, but you turn into a wart for the dealers quickly as this is absolutely not a common practice. You will come across as a sort of a nerd, just guessing.
Quote: AhighI did not know that Casino Royale allowed this, but if you're betting more than $60 on a number, and CR allows it, this is news to me that there's anywhere to get a significant advantage from put bets here in Vegas.
Like I said, last time I was there (over a year ago) they allowed put bets. Hopefully they haven't changed their policy. (I remember back when Binion's Horseshoe offered 100x odds, they allowed put bets for a while, but then they stopped.)
Quote: WoO Craps6 and 8: Bettor must combine a put bet with 5X odds to have the same overall house edge of 1.52% as a place bet.
5 and 9: Bettor must combine a put bet with 4X odds to have the same overall house edge of 4.00% as a place bet.
4 and 10: Bettor must combine a put bet with 19X odds to have the same overall house edge of 1.67% as a buy bet, assuming the commission is paid on a win only. If the commission is always paid then the bettor must combine a put with with 6X odds to match the 4.76% house edge.
At casinos that offer 3-4-5X odds, or worse, there is no reason to make a put bet, because you will do equal or bettor to make a place or buy bet.
The part that seems to be missing (or deliberately left out) is whether or not put bets can be taken down or turned off.
I would think not since put bets are positioned in the same spot as come bets, and in fact are treated as come bets once the bet is made.
If that's true, then in my opinion, the casino should allow them.
I don't agree with this.Quote: AhighThe short answer is the every casino that allows put bets generally only does so because their odds multiple is such that the don't mind taking them.
...
But all these places where you could take advantage of it (that I know of) don't let you do put bets. And example is Joker's Wild. Put bets disallowed!
I am sure there are places, but you turn into a wart for the dealers quickly as this is absolutely not a common practice. You will come across as a sort of a nerd, just guessing.
There may be casinos that do not allow put bets. Joker's Wild is mentioned.
But I am not aware of any casinos that refuse put bets. I've played at many places with varying amounts of permitted odds. I most often play where either 10x or 20x odds are allowed.
At no time has put bets been disallowed in my experience.
It may not be a smart bet if you are betting, for example, 5x or less odds on the 6 and 8 or 4x or less odds on the 5 and 9. I have seen good dealers suggest that in those instances if a player tries to do a put bet (say, on the passline after the point is established) that the player should instead do a place bet. But the put bet is allowed.
Even if the permitted odds is 10x or 20x and you are betting at those levels, and even though you are "taking advantage" of a situation that pays you better than a place bet, the put bet is always allowed (in my experience).
There was one time only where I saw some hesitancy by a dealer to accept a put bet. That is because he was apparently new and did not understand the bet. He looked to the boxperson and it was quickly explained to him that it was acceptable.
I also do not agree that you are a "wart for the dealers" because this is not a common practice. I don't think dealers really care if this is uncommon are you come across as a nerd. It is perfectly acceptable.
Absolutely. I have seen this happen a number of times. Not often, but still a number of times.Quote: MrVSay I have four come bets up, at ten bucks each (plus odds, which are "off" on the come out): can I toss forty dollars to the dealer and ask him to "put" my four come bets, to keep them up?
Another situation where this may occur is if you win a come bet on a number and you do not have another flat bet on the come (in order to replace the come bet with another succeeding come bet). You can tell the dealer to "keep up the come bet" and throw the dealer the amount of the flat bet. The dealer will then keep your same odds working.
Keep in mind that all put bets are contract bets as soon as they are booked. You can take down the odds at any time after that, but the flat bet must stay up and cannot be taken down--the same as a passline bet.
I honestly had no idea there were any at all, so I am very interested to know which ones do. I definitely believe you just unaware myself.
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Quote: JimboAt no time has put bets been disallowed in my experience.
It may not be a smart bet if you are betting, for example, 5x or less odds on the 6 and 8 or 4x or less odds on the 5 and 9. I have seen good dealers suggest that in those instances if a player tries to do a put bet (say, on the passline after the point is established) that the player should instead do a place bet. But the put bet is allowed.
Even if the permitted odds is 10x or 20x and you are betting at those levels, and even though you are "taking advantage" of a situation that pays you better than a place bet, the put bet is always allowed (in my experience).
Jimbo, my Put bet was disallowed at Harrahs Las Vegas. In my case the pit boss did not allow the put bet.
My situation was twofold. One day at Harrah's a random roller was on a large roll and my Place bet on the 10 reached table Max of 5,000. On the next 10, I took part of my pay and asked the dealer to make a separate put bet in addition to my Place bet. The dealer booked the Put bet and I was able to keep my Place bet of 5,000 in addition to getting my Put bet Up to 2,800 before the seven out. The Pit boss monitored both payouts several times and had no concern with double bets on the 10.
Within 8 Days at the same casino a precision shooter got on a roll and my Place bet on the 9 hit table max at 5,000 again. This time a different pit boss at the same casino would not allow my put bet despite my urging.
FYI: I tend to agree with the latter decision.
I happened to be at Horseshoe Hammond last week after a meeting in Chicago, and another player bet the put bet. Nothing was said. The dealer put the number.
Incidentally, it would be silly to do put bets on the Strip with only 3x-4x-5x odds, since your are just as good or better off placing the number--and you then have the option of taking down the number at any time with the place bet. Whereas the put bet is a contract bet and cannot be taken down (though of course the odds can be taken down at any time the same as with a passline bet).
I called a good friend of mine today who is the table games director at a casino in the Midwest. He has taught dealers in Illinois. He has opened more than a dozen casinos throughout the Midwest. He has worked in Vegas and Reno. I believe he has worked at some 20 casinos in his career.
I asked him specifically if he has ever disallowed or restricted put bets. He said no. He said he does not consider the "advantage" of odds on the put bet--since odds can be taken down at anytime and even though the addition of the odds reduces the overall house edge on the overall bet, he looks to the flat bet in deciding what the house edge is and there is no reason--in his view--not to accept the put bet.
Apparently there are casinos which disagree with this position, as attested to in the other posts. I can only speak to my own experience.
The dealers and the pit boss all got in an argument about how stupid this rule was, but that's the rule over there.
I made the point that they should book any bet with an edge no matter if a free bet is already taken or not(!!!) No matter even if the free bet is at the table limit (which it doesn't have to be just at max of 10x odds).
So $5 travels to the six and you have $50 odds, you can't even make another $6 place bet on top of that at the Stratosphere.
It always depends on the casino, but you might find more restrictions are in place than those that are enforced anyway.
Many dealers don't even know all the stupid rules the casinos want them to follow. They certainly don't know all the why's.
Quote: BohemianJimbo, my Put bet was disallowed at Harrahs Las Vegas. In my case the pit boss did not allow the put bet.
My situation was twofold. One day at Harrah's a random roller was on a large roll and my Place bet on the 10 reached table Max of 5,000. On the next 10, I took part of my pay and asked the dealer to make a separate put bet in addition to my Place bet. The dealer booked the Put bet and I was able to keep my Place bet of 5,000 in addition to getting my Put bet Up to 2,800 before the seven out. The Pit boss monitored both payouts several times and had no concern with double bets on the 10.
Within 8 Days at the same casino a precision shooter got on a roll and my Place bet on the 9 hit table max at 5,000 again. This time a different pit boss at the same casino would not allow my put bet despite my urging.
Wow. Koga Ninja? That is some action I would like to see first hand.
Quote: DJTeddyBearIn those 8 days, they might have sent a memo to the floor people.
FYI: I tend to agree with the latter decision.
Not a bright casino. Someone wants to bet a lot while leaving their higher edge place bet up at $5000? And you say no and risk them taking down a $5000 Place bet on the 9? And leaving and never putting another 5000 place bet up ever again?
I mean after all, about 1 in 20 dealers will bring come bets down if the box man would allow it here in Vegas there are SO many break-ins!
Quote: DJTeddyBearIn those 8 days, they might have sent a memo to the floor people.
FYI: I tend to agree with the latter decision.
DJTeddyBear, nextshooter.com disagrees with you.
Quote: nextshooter.comIt is possible to exceed what a player might consider maximum by making another wager, even on the same number.
If you do so, the boxman and floorpeople might frown on this a bit but you should hold your ground that the limit applies to individual wagers.
www.nextshooter.com/oddsandlimits
Is that a House Rule or a Gaming Commission Rule?Quote: BohemianDJTeddyBear, nextshooter.com disagrees with you.
I assume the former. If it's the latter, then I retract my earlier comment.
FWIW, I'm also a poker player. There are a LOT of poker rules that vary from casino to casino.
Quote: TIMSPEEDCome bets that never travel are the best kind!!
I do not understand a come bet that never travels?
That's when there's a new come bet and a come bet up on the number rolled. The dealer generally cuts the payout chips, taps the new come bet with those chips saying "off & on", gives you the payout and leaves the new come bet in the come box for the next roll.
Quote: DJTeddyBearCome bets that don't travel:
That's when there's a new come bet and a come bet up on the number rolled. The dealer generally cuts the payout chips, taps the new come bet with those chips saying "off & on", gives you the payout and leaves the new come bet in the come box for the next roll.
They also don't travel when an 11 is thrown.
Quote: FatGeezusThey also don't travel when an 11 is thrown.
They also sometimes don't travel when an inexperienced dealer is harried by whatever and just leaves it there when it should have traveled.
Quote: odiousgambitThey also sometimes don't travel when an inexperienced dealer is harried by whatever and just leaves it there when it should have traveled.
A player not saying anything should be horsewhipped!!
Yeah, call out a place bet on the number that was just called. LOL. (j/k)
Quote: odiousgambitA player not saying anything should be horsewhipped!! [/spoiler]
Only if it's your own bet !
Quote: DJTeddyBearCome bets that don't travel:
That's when there's a new come bet and a come bet up on the number rolled. The dealer generally cuts the payout chips, taps the new come bet with those chips saying "off & on", gives you the payout and leaves the new come bet in the come box for the next roll.
(Yes, still catching up on threads from 2 weeks ago).
This reminds me of a corny yet funny (IMO) joke I heard from a dealer at Flamingo. You know what the best bet is in the casino? The last come bet. It always pays!
