Who remembers rec.gambling.craps the "original craps forum"??

I thought this craps forum would be the appropriate place to ask this, and I hope I am not out of order.

Is there anyone here who remembers rec.gambling.craps and can help me out by telling me the years it operated?

Over on my forum Frank Scoblete offered to answer questions about "The Captain" and I asked him about other "reporting" about his record roll in 2005 and why it never showed up in any other news reports, or on Internet news groups even.

I'm thinking that it should have been mentioned by some crapster somewhere or even by a dealer on a dealer's forum. I remember dicedealer.com. And then nextshooter.com was around in 2005 but it doesn't mention the Captain's roll either.

Quote: AlanMendelson

I thought this craps forum would be the appropriate place to ask this, and I hope I am not out of order.

Is there anyone here who remembers rec.gambling.craps and can help me out by telling me the years it operated?

Over on my forum Frank Scoblete offered to answer questions about "The Captain" and I asked him about other "reporting" about his record roll in 2005 and why it never showed up in any other news reports, or on Internet news groups even.

I'm thinking that it should have been mentioned by some crapster somewhere or even by a dealer on a dealer's forum. I remember dicedealer.com. And then nextshooter.com was around in 2005 but it doesn't mention the Captain's roll either.

According to the Giganews archives, rec.gambling.craps goes back to at least the end of June, 2003. (I thought that might be when it started, but rec.gambling, which predates the breakup into subgroups like rec.gambling.craps and rec.gambling.poker, also only goes back to June 2003, so that must be where Giganews has its most recent rec.gambling.* posts.)
EDIT: I think that's as far back as it has any posts

Technically, rec.gambling.craps still operates, but the most recent post about craps appears to be on 1/1/2013.

There is a post from early 2004 about "The Captain" by someone with the username Morton, which generated a response of, "If he's so significant, why doesn't Scoblete dust him off and display him at his GTC events, kind of like a 2-headed calf?".

There is a vague reference to "rolling 23 sixes" in a thread in May, 2005; is this the "record roll"?

Is there a link to that?

Quote: AlanMendelson

Is there a link to that?

Link to the thread with the "two-headed calf" post

Link to the thread that mentions the 23 sixes

Another link from a post in 2004, which points to a still-existent "World Records in Craps" page at Golden Touch Craps

That was a hoot reading all that stuff. Mr V was a great writer back then! LOL

What I am looking for and I can't find it is ANY report by anyone player or dealer or casino employee about being at that table. The internet was around, crapsters were around, but no one saw it or even heard of it until... well, never mind.

It never happened Alan. Remember you are dealing with a fiction writer.

Quote: AlanMendelson

Is there anyone here who remembers rec.gambling.craps and can help me out by telling me the years it operated?

As I recall, rec.gambling and rec.gambling.blackjack, and rec.gambling.blackjack.moderated (the one Clark Cant shut down) date back to the early 1990s. I used to read them with "rnews" in a Unix shell. Don't know about rec.gambling.craps.

I found this:

Quote:

Q:H1 A brief history of rec.gambling.
A:H1 (Matt Wilding, Steve Jacobs, Selim Guncer)

The orginal RFD for rec.gambling was posted in mid 1989. alt.gambling was created in August, 1989, by an over-enthusiastic netter who couldn't wait for the voting. Meanwhile, the vote for rec.gambling was held, and passed 189-41. The election results were announced on September 23, 1989, and the group created one week later.

During the early years (roughly 1990 and 1991), blackjack and craps were probably the most popular topics on rec.gambling. This was before there was a FAQ, and much of the focus was on card counting and computer simulations of blackjack games. Flame wars between blackjack players and craps players were popular. There was virtually no discussion of poker during this time. The first BARGE took place in Aug. 1991 (before it was ever called BARGE), and the Presto!/Irwin legend emerged at that time. The Frank Irwin Memorial Commode Ceremony also came from this BARGE trip. There were perhaps a dozen rec.gamblers at the first BARGE. The first rec.gambling FAQ was created late in 1991.

The first WRGPT was launched in early 1992, with Will Hyde acting as dealer. Poker discussions gained in popularity, partly as a result of this tournament. Traffic on rec.gambling probably averaged about 10 to 20 posts per day during this time.

A formal proposal to split rec.gambling we presented early in 1995, and passed by popular vote. The new newsgroups were created on June 5, 1995. The original rec.gambling group was superceded by rec.gambling.misc, and was scheduled to be rmgroup'ed on Aug. 7, (coincidently) right after BARGE '95.

Quote: AlanMendelson

What I am looking for and I can't find it is ANY report by anyone player or dealer or casino employee about being at that table. The internet was around, crapsters were around, but no one saw it or even heard of it until... well, never mind.

And you will not find any.
When I searched the internet and AC casinos in 2007 and 2008,
only silence...

The line that everyone just forgot about it by FrankS is total BS.


Stanley Fujitake record of 118 was set in May 1989 and I knew about it living in Reno, Nevada in the 1990s
as did many other craps dealers and players.

Go to the Cal in Downtown Las Vegas and ask about his hand.
He is a God there.

When I lived in New England in 2007 and 2008 I visited AC many many times.
No one there even knew who a "Captain" was and a so-called 147 roll monster.

Craps players still are way better liars and story tellers than poker players IMO

Quote:

DeMango

It never happened Alan. Remember you are dealing with a fiction writer.

Alan just in case you haven't figured it out yet, please read DeMago's post again! Craps players are their own worst enemy. They are always looking for the magic bullet and will believe some of the most outrages posts and claims to fame you will ever read, even if they know it their own mind that what they are reading is fiction, they will never question what some of these great fiction writers are writing. I have to give some of them all the credit in the world for their master pieces of fiction.

If that roll ever happened everybody that played craps would have known about it the next day, dealers talk, so do the players that would have been on the table.
What started out as a 30 roll is now a 50 when it was over with. I see it all the time. Nobody counts the rolls unless that are tracking the table. Players have a way over exaggerating what just happened, when someone is on a good roll.

We all pay the price for the fiction that is written on the boards and in the books, now I know that it's a writers job to sell books, but you don't have to write fiction to do so! Every time a craps player gets heat at the tables, please give thanks to our great fiction writers. Especially the ones that write they are taking hundreds of thousands of dollars off the tables every year. They get a comp trip to Macua to play craps for three days, they get to have all their meals comp. They get free airfare anywhere in the country that has a casino in it. They never get any heat when they play in Canada or any other place they play!

The next time you read a great piece of fiction, how about asking some question about what the writer wrote! The captain was there to pump up sales of a book and guess what it worked, craps players are still talking about something that never happened. FS buried the captain, let him rest in peace, so we don't have to read anything more about him.

Two things here.

First: How many of you know about the almost two hour roll that took place in February 2013 that won the players between two and three million dollars at a $25 table? I'm guessing none of you heard of this. I was asked to write a full article on it but I was traveling at the time (that's why I haven't been writing on any web sites). The article on that monster roll, which I am guessing none of you know about and no dealers are commenting on, will be in the Fun&Games magazine (I am not sure what upcoming issue that will be) written by another contributor. The woman who did the shooting is willing to have the roll and herself publicized. But it is several months later and not a peep as far as I know about the event on any web site I am now visiting. Two to three million in such a single small period of time is a lot of money.

Second: Here is a response I made to Alan about the Captain's 147 roll:

Remember that for a casino to publicize an event it must get the written permission of the player. Pat DeMauro had to sign such release papers when she had her world record roll --- in fact the execs were waiting with those papers the moment she sevened out. Had she said to them that she did not want anything said about it then nothing would be said about it. Yes, dealers would talk for awhile; as dealers talked about the Captain until his roll faded as new dealers came on the scene.

It is somewhat different for slot players and lottery winners. Often the "agreement" between player and casino/lottery expresses clearly that the player's name will be used in case of a win. In casinos this will be posted somewhere on a wall or entrance or right on the machine. Most casinos do not do this but some do. My close friend, whose name I'll tell Alan only, won two Royal Flushes on the same night. When asked if he would allow his name or his achievement to be used in the newsletter or newspapers (holding the big checks), he said, "No way."

Other than one student and his wife, the dealers, the casino manager, the pit boss, the floor person, a dozen of us at the table, and the crowd, there are no other official newspaper / newsletter reports of the event that I know of.

Is this strange? No. Think of all the tremendous rolls that have occurred in casinos throughout America --- how many of those are publicized inside or outside the casino? Some of your readers have been on such rolls and except for a little chatter right after them, nothing said, nothing written, these events vanish into the ether.

Of course, I wrote about it as I have (in words of Ralph Kramden) a "big mouth." But I did get permission to do so. The Captain gave me access he gave very few. Indeed, I believe without him I would still be largely unknown. (Do not take that to mean I invented him to become a big shot. I was lucky in this regards.)

Regarding the $3-million table dump in February, are you referring to the table at Caesars? I was there. It was one player who made $3-million but he bought in with one million. He was making $10-thou flat bets plus full odds. A random shooter held the dice. The other players didn't fare as well. It was the table closest to the steps at the front entrance.

If that's not the win, then why don't you check with Caesars.

I responded to your post on my forum, but basically my points were this:

Casinos can report big wins and jackpots without revealing players' names and they do it all the time. Just check IGT's past news releases for its mega jackpot winners. Often you will see a phrase indicating the player did not want his name released. Most recently here in Southern Cal it happened with a million dollar winner at Pechanga. He won it on a slot, Pechanga released the news of the jackpot (of course they did, they want the publicity) but kept the player's name confidential.

There would be no reason why that casino in 2005 wouldn't have also "spread the news" especially after all the play that gambling news was getting in those days with the explosion of the WSOP and knowing that players were still talking about the monster Vegas roll from years earlier.

The second "problem" I have is that people talk. I don't think anyone was sworn to secrecy. So no one posted a thing on the Internet and the dealers don't talk and the casino doesn't talk? Besides the newsgroup I mentioned there are also dealer websites. Someone would have also talked about it. I find it amazing only you would report it.

As I mentioned on my forum, If you really wanted to preserve this moment of history, as a professional writer you should have taken names right there, and quoted the dealers and boxmen after the event. Heck, it's not every day somebody name The Captain has a record setting roll in craps.

When I first heard about the Captain's roll, I thought it happened years earlier -- before the Internet. Today everyone is a citizen journalist, and everyone who sets foot in a casino probably has been at some site related to casino gambling -- and SOMEONE would have said SOMETHING.

I'm not denying it didn't happen, but for heaven's sake, it happened in public, at a jammed table in an Atlantic City Casino, with a boxman, three dealers and onlookers. And no one said a word about it except you?

Did the Captain pay people to keep their mouths shut? That's the only possible explanation.

Quote:

FS
First: How many of you know about the almost two hour roll that took place in February 2013 that won the players between two and three million dollars at a $25 table? I'm guessing none of you heard of this. I was asked to write a full article on it but I was traveling at the time (that's why I haven't been writing on any web sites). The article on that monster roll, which I am guessing none of you know about and no dealers are commenting on, will be in the Fun&Games magazine (I am not sure what upcoming issue that will be) written by another contributor. The woman who did the shooting is willing to have the roll and herself publicized. But it is several months later and not a peep as far as I know about the event on any web site I am now visiting. Two to three million in such a single small period of time is a lot of money.

Frank for one thing there are many really good rolls everyday in casinos across this country that will never make it to the news papers, anybody that plays craps all the time will get to see some of these, most get over exaggerated, because in the heat of battle no one is counting the rolls, what was a 30 roll is now a 50 roll, I see this all the time. That's because there isn't one other player on the table that is tracking the shooters roll.

Now as far as your quote above goes, there is no roll count there, and if you take the zeros off it could be like winning $100, I hope your not going to tell us all that she started out betting $25 and pressed her bets up to where she walked away a millionaire! Great rolls don't necessarily mean that a table will lose a lot of money. Most of the time the table will fill up and you will have players still betting red chips on the table, they don't know how to play the game. I've seen a lot of your students on hot tables never even have the first bet on a so-called random roll, great job of teaching them to only bet on themselves.

Now just in case you question how I would know that they were your students its very easy to pick them out on any table they play on. There standing at SL1 betting on only the 6's and 8's, there also using the 5 count and never betting on anybody but themselves. I watch many 50 rolls go by with out them ever putting the first bet on the table!

This kind of thing goes on with your students all the time, if you play craps all the time here in Vegas you will see all kinds of 50, 60, and 70 rolls happening, most of the time they are by some so-called random roller that is getting lucky. It's bound to happen the so-called random rollers out number the so-called DI's tens of thousands to one. One of the things that happens the most is there is a good roll happening and when it's over with, it just became that 60 roll, because in the heat of the battle no one was counting the rolls.

When I'm on a table I track every roll, and when this happens, I bring everybody down to reality by reporting on what just happened and the real roll count! It can also go the other way,.. the shooter doesn't even know that they just had that 50 roll, hell most of them are shaking so bad they are oblivious as to what just happened!

Dealers and suits always talk about the roll you missed , yesterday or a few days ago. They need players and what better way to get them coming back to their tables then spreading the word of a great roll that happened. Look at what happens when someone hit a major jackpot in the casinos, it hits the news, they post photos of the lucky winner if they can get them. They will still tell everybody they can if they can't get the permission about the roll or the big slot players win.

Basically you are always going to be on the losing end of this argument, unless you produce some kind of evidence that the “Captains” roll happened.
Now that you have killed him off, why are you still fighting this battle? You will never produce the evidence. You can keep pointing out every great roll that happens, it's still not going to get you out of this one!

Big wins at a casino on the craps table don't mean a thing, as I already wrote, if you drop the zeros and you have someone that is betting big, its only like they won $100.

Here is one for you: this story is brought to you by USA TODAY

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/money/industries/travel/2011-06-07-gambling-tropicana_n.htm

Frank you even had me going when I was reading this one, because I never saw who was the writer until I got done with the article, sometimes it's hell to do research if you are in a hurry, you can get your self in trouble really fast!

http://www.casinocenter.com/gamblings-greatest-wins-runs-records-legends/

Alan, not Caesars.

Superrick, I am not fighting a battle with Alan, I just think he's made a wrong assumption and is going with it. He is postulating that if a tree falls in the forest and no one is there to see it, did it fall? He dismisses the idea that plenty of people saw the roll, talked about the roll and one of them (me) wrote about the roll. He figures someone else should write about the roll other than me. That some media should have covered it. If they didn't cover it, it didn't happen.

Note he postulated Caesars as the place where the big roll I mentioned in a previous post happened. I didn't hear about Caesars; Alan did. You probably didn't hear about Caesars either. You are right that big rolls happen every day that are noteworthy but then they fade away. I've played at Borgata where Pat DeMauro's world record was accomplished and the tables even have a note about it on the felt. Not a single person I've seen at those tables refers to it; not pit personnel, not dealers, not players. (This is of course when I am there. At other times maybe someone has referred to it. But you can see how fast the big rolls become lost in the hazy past.)

Charlie "Sandtrap," one of GTC's former students rolled a 90 before sevening out. Now that is a monster roll. Huge money was made at that table. I play at that casino all the time. For a couple of days, this or that dealer referred to the roll. Haven't heard anything since---and it's been several years of not hearing anything. I just got back from a long visit to that casino; not a soul referred to his monster roll. And there were big bettors at that table as well.

As far as the big roll I mentioned in the post above, I have no information about it other than that it happened and will be written about. So I am looking forward to reading about the event. Now, it is possible that someone has written about it already but I haven't seen any references to it. However, once the article is published we will have an account.

I think Alan is a bright guy, a very bright guy, but in this case he is barking up the wrong tree because it actually did fall in the forest.

Quote: FrankScoblete

Superrick, I am not fighting a battle with Alan, I just think he's made a wrong assumption and is going with it. He is postulating that if a tree falls in the forest and no one is there to see it, did it fall? He dismisses the idea that plenty of people saw the roll, talked about the roll and one of them (me) wrote about the roll. He figures someone else should write about the roll other than me. That some media should have covered it. If they didn't cover it, it didn't happen.

Note he postulated Caesars as the place where the big roll I mentioned in a previous post happened. I didn't hear about Caesars; Alan did. You probably didn't hear about Caesars either. You are right that big rolls happen every day that are noteworthy but then they fade away.

I'm not exactly sure that a tree falling in the forest is at the same level with a record-setting craps throw?

The Caesars roll didnt set any records. It was just a lot of money being bet and the bets won. With $10,000 flat bets and average odds of $40,000 each number that "hit" returned -- can I estimate -- $70,000. Ten numbers got the player $700,000. Twenty numbers got him $1.4-million. Thirty numbers got him $2.1-million. Forty numbers.... and it's about $3-million. You can have a forty-roll hand in about 20-25 minutes without any record setting.

Frank did you ever report which casino this took place in? Wouldn't you like to track down some of the dealers who worked there then and get them to talk about what they remember?

Quote: FrankScoblete

Charlie "Sandtrap," one of GTC's former students rolled a 90 before sevening out. Now that is a monster roll. Huge money was made at that table. I play at that casino all the time. For a couple of days, this or that dealer referred to the roll. Haven't heard anything since---and it's been several years of not hearing anything. I just got back from a long visit to that casino; not a soul referred to his monster roll. And there were big bettors at that table as well.

As the bar gets raised, few talk about #2 anymore.

Quote: AlanMendelson

That was a hoot reading all that stuff.

Plato wasn't the only one with a cave ...

The Captain's cave

Alan



There is always questions regarding dice control and GTC and the rolls indicated on that site and what Frank
or Dom did. You know the questions well. I can not attest to all the rolls on there, no one can, But i can
say i am on there and that i did what was indicated I did. I have spoken with players that viewed some of
the good rolls of others on there, and i have viewed some.

Many of those so called records would surely seem possible to you and I because i bet we have at one
time or another accomplished them or came close.... such as a certain number of rolls with no 7, my best is 53, i am sure yours is
good as well. I chased Franks record of 5 50 rolls or better in one year with 4 over 50 and three 49's two years
ago, and i am not very good at this.

Now i dont know Frank or Dom real well, i Do speak with Dom now and then, he lives only couple of hours from me, but
since i joined GTC a number of years ago, they have been straight with me, and i would be inclined to give them the
benefit of the doubt.


Dicesitter

I think arguing about long rolls or the details of who did what is just stupid, myself. Even without the assistance of any influence over the dice I have had longer rolls than many people who study DI and practice plenty because I am in the casinos playing more than most people are. I take this into consideration before I post about my rolls.

I went from $12 to $237 on a 100% random roll just flinging the dice like a madman and betting in as smart a way as I could bet. This was after losing as much with my best efforts at a controlled throw.

I've also done attempts for controlled throws where a new player that comes to the table with $5 goes from $5 to $300 on my roll not having any idea what they are doing and just following the dealer advice on taking the most odds. Of course the dealer just wants the new player to lose everything and leave, but when the "best bet" is put all your money on odds every time and I have a good roll and make a bunch of points, it's pretty easy to go from $5 to $300.

Nevertheless, long rolls are as much a function of frequency of attempt (actually more) than they are of being able to have a favorable outcome on the dice.

And I think that's a source of much of the arguing.

I don't even have any idea what my longest roll is in the casino. In fact, I don't really even care much. Even if I did care and even if I did take notes, all I would get out of it is arguing about it like you guys are doing. So what?

A world record? That's awesome for a game that you don't win money!

But on a game that you win money on, winning more money than anyone has ever won would be more fun than having a world record.

And even if I lost it all back, the world record that would be worth having would be to have a better run than Archie.

Ahigh


This idea that long rolls mean nothing completely misses the point, particularly when you want to use a random thrower
and dice sitter in the same sentence. Certainly to get to 40 you have to first get to thirty, and a guy that gets to thirty
more often than another guy will certainly get to 40 more often....

But long throws are luck, certainly luck for a random guy and luck for a good dicesitter because things happen, dice kiss,
they hit a chip as the table fills up with bets, they hit some ones hand and on and on. You dont prove dicesitting ability
just by how long your throw was... rather can you make money on your throw, or do you have to rely on the luck
of others to make money for you. One thing is true if you make money consistantly your either very lucky, or your good
enough.

In real life we keep score.... whats lowest round of golf you ever shot, whats the best score on archery, what your highest
bowling score and if you have had a real high series or one or more 300 games.. how many poker tournaments have you won or
placed in.

This keeping score thing has nothing to do with nothing except here is what i did.... guy has a 280 game in bowling , hey thats
great, he has 10 of them a year.... now see that is something different, your beyond luck....
A guy plays craps once a week for a couple hours and has a 40 minutes roll... that is great.... now he has 20 rolls a year over
30 minutes... that is different, now your stretching the notion of luck

if you play craps several times a week, even a poor shooter will have more long rolls than the best shooter that ever lived
if he placed 2 days a year.All records are pictures of an event that you can keep or post.... the real score is in what is in your wallet at the end of the year.

Dicesitter

Guys, this thread is not about long craps rolls, and who did what at a table. Specifically I'm trying to find out if there was ever any independent, third party reporting of the "record roll by the Captain" either by a casino, news organization or even by a player or dealer on an Internet site. And the answer seems to be "no."

Quote: AlanMendelson

Guys, this thread is not about long craps rolls, and who did what at a table. Specifically I'm trying to find out if there was ever any independent, third party reporting of the "record roll by the Captain" either by a casino, news organization or even by a player or dealer on an Internet site. And the answer seems to be "no."

Alan, the Captain's asserted Record Roll is discussed in Appendix II of Frank's 2010 book, 'Cutting Edge Craps.' The Captain's asserted personal history is quite colorful, and includes a WWII stint behind enemy lines. It can be found in Frank's 2000 book, 'Forever Craps,' at Chapter 12. This latter work goes into great detail about the Captain, and one presumes that the Captain's name could be fairly identified by virtue of the biographical information contained therein.

The Captain has, according to Frank, been deceased for several years now. Perhaps now is the time to lift the proverbial veil?

Was the casino where the roll took place identified?

Quote:

Alan
Guys, this thread is not about long craps rolls, and who did what at a table. Specifically I'm trying to find out if there was ever any independent, third party reporting of the "record roll by the Captain" either by a casino, news organization or even by a player or dealer on an Internet site. And the answer seems to be "no."

Alan , how long have you been playing craps and how many other players have you ever talked to about FS and the Captain? The reason I'm asking is just how naïve are you? You all ready had your answer many times over,... but you refuse to accept it. Nobody saw it happen, it wasn't written up anywhere but in FS books.

You need a story line to sell books, the Captain provided one, just like the five count did! Back when I was working and was in the same casinos five days a week for my work, I would always stop by the craps tables and take to the dealers I knew, about rolls that were in trip reports, by some of the guys that were having classes in town. One Tuesday or Wednesday a trip report would always pop up about a roll that happened on Monday when all of their students had already left town. There were times that I would watch some of these roll and always had a good laugh when I read these trip reports. If I wasn't there when it happened I would talk to the dealers to see what they had to say about a great roll that was supposed to have happened.

45% of the time what was written,.. was just BS, funny how they always happened when nobody was around to see them happen. You need big rolls to sell books and classes, what more do I need to tell you about your quest to find out the real story about the Captain's roll?

I will say one thing some of the rolls that are on GTC did happen, I know a few of the guys that had those rolls, the only problem is,.. the same kinds of rolls happening everyday in the casinos by random rollers that are just getting lucky. Do you remember that I have written that DI's are just about the only ones that track rolls and will write about what they have seen on the tables, we have a tendency to make a big deal when someone who is a DI has a great roll, but most guys will never write about the so-called random rollers, when they have a great roll.

If the Captain's roll did happen, the DI's and everybody that was there would have talked about the roll, it wouldn't be just one guy that writes books about gambling for a living. As my wife is always asking, what do you guys find to talk about so much. There was a roll that when I first heard about it I said no-way it didn't happen, so I knew when it happened, where it happened and one day I asked one of the dealers casually about it and was shocked when all the dealers all came back with the same answer about the roll and that the rolled happened,.. just as I was told it did and this was about two years after it happened!

Somebody would have remember the roll that the Captain was supposed to have had, there is no story there Alan, it should just die, you can't prove that it didn't happen, and guess what FS can't prove that it did happen. The one thing that we do know is that one of those damn random rollers now holds the record for the longest roll, but don't you ever bet on a random roller, because you will lose your money by doing so, isn't that what every great fiction writer tell you?

The thing I like to remind everybody of,.. is that before they coined the words Dice Controller, there were only so-called random rollers and guess what, they were winning back then,.. just like they do now and you can bet on that!
If it wasn't for all the BS that is written about DI's we could all go to the craps tables and never get any heat, just thank all our great fiction writers the next time you're getting harassed when your on a roll, they are the ones that started getting players heat, because the stupid casinos believed what they were writing!

Ever time Howard “Rock 'n Roller” is in town, I go to the tables with him, he was one of GTC's better instructors and shooters. He never lets me down, I know that he is like money in the bank, but he can't win ever roll that he has, we all have short rolls and PSO's. That is the problem with someone who is a DI, we never know when the seven out will come. It might be on the second roll or it could be fifty rolls later.

Playing craps with the best shooters you can find does make a big difference, even if they are what some would call a random rollers, there are some guys that fit into that category too, that I will bet on every time when they get the dice,.. call them lucky or anything you want to, but I will call them money in the bank!

Okay so we have the different type of shooters when we are on the tables, some might be like Howard “Rock 'n Roller”, where you can depend on them to get on good rolls, then you have the other type that can be all over the place when shooting. Now you have the writers that need to make a living when writing something to sell to the public, who do you think they are going to be writing about, the so-called random rollers or even a shooter like Howard?

Now the guys that play craps just about everyday will tell you about some of the great rolls that they have seen over the years, and none of them come close to what FS has written about the Captain, and the only ones that have seen him shooting are the guys that are in his book, does that tell you that there is something wrong with what you are reading?

I'm sure it does, but you are never going to get a straight answer out of FS on this matter, nor will you ever get the proof that you want to see. Now the reason I brought up Howard “Rock 'n Roller” is very simple, if you think about it, here you have a real person that can shoot he has been seen in many casinos doing what he does best and that is shooting.

If you were a writer and made him everybody's hero, everybody would have access to see him and met him, there would be times that maybe Howard “Rock 'n Roller” didn't have that great roll and then you might have a problem with someone saying something about the way he was shooting that one time when he was having a bad day. Now that wouldn't happen to often, but there is that chance.

Do you see where I'm going with this? So the great writer makes up someone who nobody will every see, you can't question anything he does and your hero is there for you to use as you see fit, you never have to worry about someone like Howard saying that you can't use their name on anything that you are promoting, there would never be a falling out, like what happened between “Rock 'n Roller” and FS.

Howard “Rock 'n Roller” now teaches for Little Joe and himself. FS just killed off the Captain to stop guys like you from asking the kind of questions he can't answer.

If you say there is a god of craps shooting, isn't it better for you to make that god invisible to all? Nobody can prove that roll didn't happen, because the Captain never was someone who FS took to his classes or anything else. Does that set off the red flags, that it should.? I would think if you did have a god like shooter you would want to show everybody what they could do,..right?

Quote:

Alan
Was the casino where the roll took place identified?

Read his books to find out that answer! But just in case you don't want to , the answer is "NO"


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Quote: superrick

[
Alan , how long have you been playing craps and how many other players have you ever talked to about FS and the Captain? The reason I'm asking is just how naïve are you? You all ready had your answer many times over,... but you refuse to accept it. Nobody saw it happen, it wasn't written up anywhere but in FS books.

Superrick... either you really have it out for me or you are completely closed-minded.

I ask these questions not because I think the story is true. I ask these questions to gather information that says the story is not true.

Obviously there is a problem if in 2005 in the age of the Internet... when rec.gambling.craps existed, when dicedealer.com existed, when various gaming publications including Gaming Today existed, when the media was excited about the WSOP and the interest in gaming was exploding nationwide, when probably every casino company on the planet had a public relations and marketing department, that through some strange twist of fate only FS made this event public.

Would you agree? Or would you like to take another cheap shot at me?

Quote:

Alan

Superrick... either you really have it out for me or you are completely closed-minded.

I ask these questions not because I think the story is true. I ask these questions to gather information that says the story is not true.

Obviously there is a problem if in 2005 in the age of the Internet... when rec.gambling.craps existed, when dicedealer.com existed, when various gaming publications including Gaming Today existed, when the media was excited about the WSOP and the interest in gaming was exploding nationwide, when probably every casino company on the planet had a public relations and marketing department, that through some strange twist of fate only FS made this event public.

Would you agree? Or would you like to take another cheap shot at me?

Alan go back and reread what I wrote, there is no cheap shot in there for you. Your trying to find an answer for something that nobody has any proof ever happened. Your same questions have been asked by so many players that play craps all the time, that its just not funny any more!

New players are naïve, I think that you are past that stage, I'm just trying to point out why some players would believe something like the story of the Captain, they are very naïve when it comes to reading anything about playing craps. They are like a sponge soaking up water, they will believe anything that they read, then after they have been playing craps long enough the water drains back out of the sponge and drys up!

Their way of thinking changes on some of the things they have read in the different books on playing craps. They become the MrV's that say BS and I have to hand it to him for that, there aren't enough guys that will question what some of these writers are writing! I would actually say bravo for you doing the same.

Just in case you haven't noticed your thread died and now its back to life, maybe your good buddy FS will have something more to say about your question, but I doubt it!

Now do you see where I'm coming from? I just have a different way of making a point, call it sick or anything that you want to, but sometimes it works!

Quote: superrick

Alan go back and reread what I wrote, there is no cheap shot in there for you. Your trying to find an answer for something that nobody has any proof ever happened. Your same questions have been asked by so many players that play craps all the time, that its just not funny any more!

Damn... I've never been criticized for asking questions before. And for 45 years I was paid to ask questions.

And for the record I asked the same questions on my own site. Asking questions is a good thing to do. Otherwise the world would still be flat.