Poll

12 votes (54.54%)
1 vote (4.54%)
9 votes (40.9%)

22 members have voted

AlanMendelson
AlanMendelson
Joined: Oct 5, 2011
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April 17th, 2013 at 11:53:35 PM permalink
Quote: Mission146

the thing that scares off new players the most is people that are familiar with the game but unwilling to help.



I'm guilty. I don't want people coming up to the table who are not players and start asking questions. Inevitably the question comes that leads to the word "devil" being uttered, and I am the most superstitious son-of-a-bitch you ever met at a craps table. No free lessons at my table please. Now if it's someone with money on the table, then ask all the questions you like.
Clownkeeper
Clownkeeper
Joined: Jul 26, 2010
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April 19th, 2013 at 3:46:46 AM permalink
Im also the same way. When Im not playing, I'd be more than happy to explain the game. Hell, I'd love a part time job just teaching the basics of the game in a casino. When Im playing however thats different. I usually have four bets on the table and I dont like the distraction of someone next to me asking alot of questions. It always amazes me that someone would go to Vegas and not learn the games and just make bets they have no clue on. (Unless "that guy" is the casino's "cooler")
Fortune favors the bold
Mission146
Mission146
Joined: May 15, 2012
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April 19th, 2013 at 6:31:12 AM permalink
Quote: AlanMendelson

I'm guilty. I don't want people coming up to the table who are not players and start asking questions. Inevitably the question comes that leads to the word "devil" being uttered, and I am the most superstitious son-of-a-bitch you ever met at a craps table. No free lessons at my table please. Now if it's someone with money on the table, then ask all the questions you like.



Oh, no, they were playing...and mostly making horrible bets!
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
RaleighCraps
RaleighCraps
Joined: Feb 20, 2010
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April 19th, 2013 at 10:40:05 AM permalink
Quote: AlanMendelson

I'm guilty. I don't want people coming up to the table who are not players and start asking questions. Inevitably the question comes that leads to the word "devil" being uttered, and I am the most superstitious son-of-a-bitch you ever met at a craps table. No free lessons at my table please. Now if it's someone with money on the table, then ask all the questions you like.



If saying SEVEN out loud at the dice table causes sevens to show up, why doesn't saying 6 or 8 cause the same thing ? Just asking.
Hell, mention 6 AND 8 and now you have the edge! 10 chances to win and only 6 to lose ! ;-)
Always borrow money from a pessimist; They don't expect to get paid back ! Be yourself and speak your thoughts. Those who matter won't mind, and those that mind, don't matter!
AZDuffman
AZDuffman
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April 19th, 2013 at 11:01:48 AM permalink
Quote: RaleighCraps

If saying SEVEN out loud at the dice table causes sevens to show up, why doesn't saying 6 or 8 cause the same thing ? Just asking.
Hell, mention 6 AND 8 and now you have the edge! 10 chances to win and only 6 to lose ! ;-)



My buddy orders a 7&7 when he plays craps. The only place he drinks them. He has just a basic knowledge if the game. No idea where he got the idea to do that.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
Ahigh
Ahigh
Joined: May 19, 2010
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April 19th, 2013 at 11:03:36 AM permalink
It's all pretend and just makes the game more fun.

You don't have to believe to participate in the fantasy of the superstitions.

It's fun stuff.
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gameshowfan
gameshowfan
Joined: Feb 7, 2012
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April 19th, 2013 at 7:10:54 PM permalink
Not to be practical here, but how exactly should a craps tournament work? The only way I've ever seen is in the Hoyle Casino series, which runs a 4-shooter tournament. It seems terribly unfulfilling, not to mention overemphasizing the variance of a game that already has a high variance.

To those who said "Yes", how would you structure the tournament?

'Brian
Ahigh
Ahigh
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April 19th, 2013 at 9:36:50 PM permalink
Quote: gameshowfan

Not to be practical here, but how exactly should a craps tournament work? The only way I've ever seen is in the Hoyle Casino series, which runs a 4-shooter tournament. It seems terribly unfulfilling, not to mention overemphasizing the variance of a game that already has a high variance.

To those who said "Yes", how would you structure the tournament?

'Brian



The most simple and straightforward to make the tournament work would be to have everyone shoot against a passline with 3x4x5x odds and a come bet with odds on every roll, working the comeout.

In other words, you shoot to win bets for a fictitious player who is betting on your roll using a maximum action strategy following the lowest possible house edge.

Using a computer, you could maximize the number of rolls per unit time by giving each shooter ten seconds to shoot and use multiple sets of dice, displaying the bets for each shooter in turn as the shooting proceeds around the craps table.

Each shooter shoots a single shot and the following shooter shoot as soon as possible.

I actually have software that I wrote for this already created that display the bets and scores for each shooter as play progresses around the table.

I haven't tested it out yet though. Maybe we could do a trial run for one of the ahigh shows.
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boymimbo
boymimbo
Joined: Nov 12, 2009
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April 19th, 2013 at 9:44:59 PM permalink
I'd allow any betting for the tournament actually with the exception of center betting. That way, the only way one could really triple up on their money is a very long shot field bet.

Or you might only allow a maximum number of bets per player per round (4), with no hedging allowed (ie, you can't do a put and place, a don't pass/don't come with a pass/come bet.
----- You want the truth! You can't handle the truth!
Ahigh
Ahigh
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April 20th, 2013 at 6:06:38 AM permalink
Quote: boymimbo

I'd allow any betting for the tournament actually with the exception of center betting. That way, the only way one could really triple up on their money is a very long shot field bet.

Or you might only allow a maximum number of bets per player per round (4), with no hedging allowed (ie, you can't do a put and place, a don't pass/don't come with a pass/come bet.



Disallowing the betting aspect would remove skilled betting from the equation. Although systems are known to fail in the long run, a method of betting is not a demonstration of skill when it comes to long term craps efficacy for wins. Yet in the short term, it's truly another story. Since a tournament is a short term endeavor, eliminating the betting aspect of the game requires the player to focus in on shooting and shooting alone.

The last craps tournament I played in, I was eliminated in a round when I didn't even get to touch the dice!

That's the opposite end of the spectrum to me. The winner of that round, in fact, played hop bets exclusively! Then the final winner was a 70-year-old white haired lady who had never once played the game before the tournament, and she got the wildcard drawing to be on the final table and then she just got lucky.

If the entire tournament is just about getting lucky, why not just play a slot machine? Or bet on someone else's roll on the dark side? You don't _NEED_ a tournament to win that type of thing.

A tournament is where you have a huge group of experts of a particular game, and you want someone to stand head and shoulders above the other experts from something that, even if only in theory, is different about how this person plays the game compared to the others.

All craps tournaments that I know about are a complete waste of time in my opinion. In effect, you are put on rails (arbitrary rails) to enable an elaborate lottery system to take place.

I did make it past the first round, and I had a long roll and had more chips than any other player at the table besides one other player.

I have never heard of a skill-based craps tournament. But one could be made to exist.

To make it even more skill based but enabling skill from betting as well, you could allow odds bets and lay odds with no come bets on any number you like and not be required to make any other bets and pay hardways at 11 for 1 and 9 for 1, and hop bets at 18 for 1 and 36 for 1. It may not seem obvious, but you will still have about the same amount of money among all the players at the end of such a tournament as you have at the beginning if there is no skill. If you played a skill based tournament with actual skilled players, in theory you would have more money in possession of the players at the end of the tournament compared to the beginning. Since it's just funny money anyway, it would be quite entertaining to see a player who starts with 5000 worth of chips and ends with millions.

Passline bets could only lose half on the 12, and don't pass could be awarded half of their bet on a win on the 12 instead of a bar as well.
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