Charitable Gaming;Craps

Quote: Ayecarumba

My suggestion is that you don't allow the free odds. Keep things the same. However, open the second table with a higher minimum. Keep the first table as is. This will push folks to the higher minimum table if they don't want to wait for a spot on the lower min.

Prop bets should always be a $1 minimum to encourage action on these high HE wagers.

As the Wizard wisely advises... shear the sheep, don't slaughter them.

Excellent suggestion, imo. I know I have played $10 BJ a few times at casinos because the one $5 table was packed (it always is...lol)

I want to thank everybody for their input and share some information.

At our school's most recent event, we finally took the plunge at allowed 1 x odds. Minimums were $3 and maximums were $5. I hired professional dealers for this one-day event so, they were very proficient with payouts, etc. Plus, I started out allowing odds but was prepared to pull the plug if we got murdered early on, with the hopes of recovering with whatever time left in the evening. As it was, I left odds working all night. Bottom line....for a charitable game, it was a mixed bag as far as results.

-- For those players who took odds, they were grateful but nevertheless complained that they should be 2x or greater (sorry Charlie)

-- Only about half of the players took odds whatsoever. Most simply made pass line bets and left it at that. Part of that, I attribute, was that in order to make an odds bet and be paid correctly, they had bet the max, $5. For some, that was/is a big gulp and, for others, I just don't think that they knew the game well enough and didn't really care.

-- While we dragged a lot of bets in with taller stacks, we also paid out a lot of bets that were double what they would have been had we simply not allowed odds and lived with the grief. There were a couple of hot rolls that night where allowing odds really hurt-us to the point where the table was in the red. Fortunately, we made it back in the last few hours.

-- shaving payouts by 33% on prop bets is not enough to offset the risks of allowing even 1x odds. Many players do not play in the middle, and when they do, it is typically $1 bets.

--by allowing odds, it also means that you had to allow odds on place and come bets. By doing so, that becomes a slow bleed if the 7's don't get rolled often enough.

--those players who did take odds were always taking them down after a few rolls. This slowed the game down when "time" is our worst enemy.

Here's my conclusions:

--By allowing odds, were are/were making accommodations for less than half of the players, with no appreciable advantage to the house.

-- Allowing odds definitely requires pro dealers ($$'s). Our volunteer dealers could NEVER handle this task.

-- Even with pro dealers, allowing odds slows the game down considerably. Again, time is our worst enemy.

-- Allowing odds can definitely exposes the house to a loss. With no odds, it's darn near impossible to lose money

Going forward:

-- Forget odds. not enough benefit to offset the risks (particularly for a charitable game operating in a short time window)

- For those wanting odds on the pass line and come bets, simply allow them to press their pass line or come bet or perhaps, increase it to the table max (thoughts?). In this manner, (1) the pass line bet cannot be taken down and (2) if it wins, it will be paid at even money.

- For don't pass players, I'm thinking that they would have to lay 2x their don't pass bet (for a $5 don't pass, they would have to put out a total of $15.) Naturally, if they wanted to take all/part of this bet down at any time, we would certainly allow it. Plus, if the bet won, it too would be paid at even money. (we do not have a "don't come" spot on our layout.)

- Place bets would be unchanged. $2 / $5, paid even money and can be taken down at any time.

As always, comments welcome. Thanks

Quote: Riva

by allowing odds, it also means that you had to allow odds on place and come bets. By doing so, that becomes a slow bleed if the 7's don't get rolled often enough.

you could get odds on place bets at this event?

Quote: odiousgambit

you could get odds on place bets at this event?

I believe the OP meant they were paying Place bets as per the real Casino rather than even money.

Quote: cowboy

I believe the OP meant they were paying Place bets as per the real Casino rather than even money.

That is correct. 9 to 5, (4 & 10) 7 to 5 (5 & 9) , 7 to 6 (6 & 8).

Any thoughts on the press bets?

Quote: Riva

Any thoughts on the press bets?

Sure - great for the House. Based on what you indicated was typical history for the players, you won't get many takers so I doubt variance will break you.

Watch out for those DI-guys though!

Quote: Riva

Here's my conclusions:

--By allowing odds, were are/were making accommodations for less than half of the players, with no appreciable advantage to the house.

Of course, there is no edge at all, not even in the real casino!

Quote:

-- Allowing odds definitely requires pro dealers ($$'s). Our volunteer dealers could NEVER handle this task.
-- Even with pro dealers, allowing odds slows the game down considerably. Again, time is our worst enemy.
-- Allowing odds can definitely exposes the house to a loss. With no odds, it's darn near impossible to lose money

When people ask me why craps pays more than the other games at our charity nights I explain, "I learned how to deal BJ at these things in 2 hours and I have seen people get less than 15 minutes training; for craps it took me nearly a month of 4 hour nights and even then it took me another 20 hours of the real thing to get decent at it!"

This is not me exaggerating, if you are only doing it 1-2 times per year don't even fool around with volunteers. Get people who know the game, as you did. However, even with odds you should not lose more than 1-2 rolls per hour if you set up a proper bank and have 2 base dealers.

Now, as a suggestion I would say place a sign like they have in the casino. Instead of it saying "10xs Odds" have it say like this:

ALL FREE ODDS BETS

Point of 4/10: $5 pays 2:1
Point of 5/9: $4 pays 3:2
Point of 6/8: $5 pays 6:5

IMPROPER BETS WILL BE PAID AT 1:1

This does a few things. First it gives the sharps the info right there. Just say, "this is for charity so we have to balance free-odds with raising money." Any normal person will understand that. Next, it eliminates people asking "how much do I need to bet?" Thirdly, dealers can explain the sign if the bet is wrong. Of course they should do a quick-survey for incorrect bets, but this way it is thrown back on the player.

Quote:

- For those wanting odds on the pass line and come bets, simply allow them to press their pass line or come bet or perhaps, increase it to the table max (thoughts?). In this manner, (1) the pass line bet cannot be taken down and (2) if it wins, it will be paid at even money.

I don't quite get this, you can already press a pass-line or come bet. Players who know the game will *never* do what you suggest if I am reading this right.

Quote:

As always, comments welcome. Thanks

One other question, did you have the pros selling the prop bets? They should have been. Or get a volunteer who is a good barker and have them work stick. They should be pushing those bets; pushing the Field Bet to the fish. Fish love to swim in the Field. The barker should sell a prop each and every roll.

I've told this story here before but will for you here. Once I had a bunch of new players hitting the Field Bet. My bank was in danger of breaking, and we do not have provisions for a fill! However, as they said in the movie, "BUT I KNEW!" Sure enough, within 10 minutes I had almost all of their chips in my bank!

Now you may not want to send them home with all empty pockets, but if you do not push the props and have free odds, you run the risk that players turn it into a fund raiser for themselves.

Feel free to consult via PM if you are setting up another night and need advice, I have done I bet at least 100 and have ideas on what works and what does not. Same invitation to anyone else wanting to do the same, no charge for advice!

It has been an incredibly long time since I posted here. Some of you may remember me as a fellow that runs a big, charitable gaming event for a non-profit organization in Michigan. I could not remember my password and the email that I listed here is long gone. As a result, I created a new account; however, I'm the same person as the original Riva. Now, Riva1.

After 20 years, I am still volunteering at this organization at their charitable gaming events.

I could not find the function to start a new thread so, I just replied to this ancient thread under my new ID.

Some exciting things recently occurred in Michigan that I wanted to share and perhaps gather your input on. Thanks.

For decades, the maximum amount of chips that the house can sell at a charity gaming event has been limited to $15,000 per day. So, when the house reaches $15,000, the house cannot sell any more chips to players. We typically sell out of chips by 8:00 pm on any given night. If a player can't buy chips, they can't gamble, and they don't buy beer, and they go home. It drives me frick'n nuts. One night last year, we turned away over 300 people wanting to buy chips and gamble.

I have been lobbying in the state capital for 15 years to get the chip sale limit increased. Last month, the Governor signed a bill into law, language a bill that increases the number of chips a charity can sell per day. However, depending on how an organization conducts its gaming events, it determines how much an organization can sell in chips per day. (stay with me)

The bill signed into law now allows ANY charitable organizations to sell $20,000 in chips per day. Pretty clear, right? However, and without going into all the bloody detail, there is language in the bill that stipulates that if the organization meets certain criteria, it can sell up to (get this) $160,000 in chips per day. That's a far cry from the $15,000 per day, wouldn't you think? We qualify for the $160,000. per day limit.

Read the posts above. Tell me what you would change, if anything.

Here's are (owned) table inventory:

2, 14' craps tables

2, 20' roulette tables

1, 9' roulette table

20 blackjack tables

4, big wheel games

10, holdem tables

Cheers!

Excuse my ignorance....but aren't these charity type games usually run where you get donations (TV's, vacations, swag, etc.) from local companies and then run the game where the players can buy chips to gamble with and buy or bid on items with their chip winnings.

What if you sell chips and get thoroughly cracked by a hot roller....or a few during a night? And wind up losing money?

Quote: Riva1

It has been an incredibly long time since I posted here. Some of you may remember me as a fellow that runs a big, charitable gaming event for a non-profit organization in Michigan. I could not remember my password and the email that I listed here is long gone. As a result, I created a new account; however, I'm the same person as the original Riva. Now, Riva1.

Send us the details, we will give our input, possibly even helpful and correct, but don't count on it.

questions:
do sales have to take place only on EVENT DAYS?

what about: you advertise, people send in their donations but you only deliver them to the players when they show up on EVENT DAY, thus you are merely transferring PRE-SOLD chips which should not prevent you from selling your daily limit to late arrivals who did not pre-order.

Can you define a "day'" as ending at 8:00pm, so that you would have two days of sales on a busy night but would have to let the event continue with only minimal staffing and games at the deserted hours?