Myths About Controlled Shooters, Shooting and the Captain

so its a myth then?

Quote: tupp

By the way, I think that Station Casinos has discontinued the $1 Buds that the marketing guy mentions.

Quote: nezbit

so its a myth then?

Well, the promotion was real when they advertised it.

There is still a slot open if anybody wants to volunteer to shoot.

Otherwise I will be shooting. If I shoot, I will use two different colored dice and record the rolls with left and right dice duly noted.

This is something I need to get into the habit of anyway.

I will be going for recording 200 rolls in an hour and fifteen minutes with the best possible results I can muster.

OK, to summarize:

Alan invited Ahigh to dine with him at Caesars, and Ahigh declined.

Presumably he had a conflict, and would be unavailable: fine.

But, when Alan was at Caesars shooting dice at or near the previously discussed time: Alan saw Ahigh, and Ahigh saw Alan.

Yet ... neither said hello to one another, waved, or acknowledged each other's presence.

Perhaps there was some doubt as to correct identification?

Or maybe Alan was miffed that Ahigh blew him off on dinner, only to be available anyway?

I can certainly see how Alan wouldn't be able to do this mid-shoot, but I see zero excuse for Ahigh not to have approached Alan, other than temerity.

It's not like there've been no pics of Alan at a Caesars craps table ...

Quote: MrV

What seems to be happening is Alan is a 'somebody' in Vegas,
to a limited extent, and Ahigh is a nobody. This rankles Ahigh
no end. I'm sure I'm wrong, as Ahigh will no doubt let me know.
(snicker)

Quote: EvenBob

Quote: MrV

What seems to be happening is Alan is a 'somebody' in Vegas,
to a limited extent, and Ahigh is a nobody. This rankles Ahigh
no end. I'm sure I'm wrong, as Ahigh will no doubt let me know.
(snicker)

Is that Ahigh giving a Dice Control Seminar?

May I just correct one point: I did not recognize Ahigh, and frankly I wouldn't know him today if he walked up to me. he would have to introduce himself. I never watched the Ahigh show long enough or any of his other videos to get a good look at him. Sorry Ahigh. But I do watch your show.

But if someone invited me to dinner and I declined the invitation (originally Ahigh posted that he didn't want me to meet his wife... really?) but I later came across that person at the casino, I certainly would have said hello and expressed regrets that we couldn't have made the dinner.

Shelley and I were married at a craps table, yes. My good friend Jimmy Wike who was head of table game operations at Caesars made it possible. Caesars gave us a table, arranged for the Rabbi, a videographer, a still photographer, Sharon served the champagne, and when we watch the video we can hear Moe at the next table making his stick calls louder than the Rabbi. It's something the dealers still joke about. In the photo are Shelley's relatives, my family is out of frame (other side of the table).

After we played craps. Since it was "our table" I got to set the limits. While the rest of the casino was a $25 minimum, I set it at $10 for my non-craps-playing relatives and we had a hoot of a time. After about an hour or so the girls went off to the Forum shops and the guys went up to watch a game on TV and the table was opened for regular play.

Talk about hardways: my father in law kept betting $100 on the ten. Any ten. His only bet at the table. The hard ten hit three times in a row for him.

My friend Robin Leach I thought had the best "coverage" of our wedding. LV Norm wrote about it too. But Robin wrote how Shelley was the first to throw and the first pass was "9" and Robin pointed out how I worked for KCAL-9 in LA and it was appropriate since they let me off during the all-important "sweeps period" for the wedding.

We weren't sure where we wanted to get married: either the craps table, or at a video poker machine... or the drive thru wedding chapel with everybody stuffed in the limo.

That photo is from 7 years ago. Since then, I had cataract surgery so I no longer wear glasses. I had kidney failure and had a successful kidney/pancreas transplant so I am no longer diabetic and I gained about 20 pounds, and my wife has lost about 20. You wouldn't recognize her from her TV series... she was a child actress on a TV western... and she is an avid video poker player.

The Rabbi, it turns out, was the gem of the whole event. Because he agreed to perform a wedding at a craps table. Prayers, vows, breaking of the glass, the whole shebang.

When I broke the glass, the entire casino was hushed. And as my foot came down the entire casino yelled out Mazel Tov! Later Jimmy Wike said to me "it was the best thing we ever did here."

Every time I walk up to a craps table at Caesars, the veteran dealers introduce me to new dealers or new floor people as the guy who got married right here. And when one of the new people say "oh, here at Caesars Palace?" The veteran will say "no, right here in the craps pit (or at the table if I am at that table).

Definitely more memorable than a one hour roll.

Alan, I hope you don't take offense at my posting the pic; I saved it from the old site, as I think it is "cool."

No offense at all. I have it on my own site. Google has it archived. And I was surprised to find out from Google stats how often it is "searched for."

Quote:

tupp
A few months ago, I saw the mini-tub at the Tropicana (thanks to superrick's info).

That tub is only open on the weekends if you are looking to play on it, but don't waste your time, because you are going to end up with less money then you started with. They have a ¼ of foam under the felt. Players think that because the table is so small they would be able to win money on that table, that is not the case and if you are reading that someone won a lot of money on it most likely you are reading fiction.

The last playable tub in Vegas was at Casino Royale, but that has been out of there for over five years now, you have a bunch of table that will put the board in the middle of the table around town.

Club Fortune, Eastside Cannery, and if you go out by the Dam, you have Hacienda Casino. Don't expect to walk away with any big money at any of those casinos, shooting on a table with the board in the middle is harder then you think. The other thing is that they will take the board out if you start winning and go to a half table, or just kick you off the table. I've had that happen before, and I was only trying to pick up gas money to pay for a trip I took down into Arizona, the traffic had backed up into Boulder City and I had to use the rest room. They gave me back all my bets I had on the table and told me they didn't want my business.

Casinos are not your personal ATM's and these tubs that are around are for anybody that does not set the dice, They had one last year at Palace Station that they took out, they would call a no roll if you didn't hit the back wall with both dice, even if the dice came up seven! Now how could anybody miss the back walk on a tub, would be a good question that most of you guys would ask that has never played on one of these tables.

The table was so bouncy that if you didn't land the dice just right they would bounce back at you. You couldn't put to much energy into a shot, if you didn't want it to bounce back down the table and you were trying to stop your shot after it hit the back wall!

There are a few of the casinos down in Laughlin that put the board in the middle of the table, they don't like winners either, so you may not be welcome there either. While you may read some great pieces of fiction on these tables, like the one that was told about a table they have in Casino Niagara not to long ago by our famous fiction writer from Canada. He was writing about how easy it was for him to make money on that table, so one of the guys that post on the main board he post on went there looking for easy money what he found turned out to be a nightmare of a little table, where nobody could keep the dice on the table.

His whole thought process changed after making his trip to Canada about what he read on the different DI craps boards!

here's that table at the Hacienda with the board.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5Xcw09C_SE

Quote: superrick

Quote:

tupp
A few months ago, I saw the mini-tub at the Tropicana (thanks to superrick's info).

That tub is only open on the weekends if you are looking to play on it, but don't waste your time, because you are going to end up with less money then you started with. They have a ¼ of foam under the felt. Players think that because the table is so small they would be able to win money on that table, that is not the case and if you are reading that someone won a lot of money on it most likely you are reading fiction.

The last playable tub in Vegas was at Casino Royale, but that has been out of there for over five years now, you have a bunch of table that will put the board in the middle of the table around town.

Club Fortune, Eastside Cannery, and if you go out by the Dam, you have Hacienda Casino. Don't expect to walk away with any big money at any of those casinos, shooting on a table with the board in the middle is harder then you think. The other thing is that they will take the board out if you start winning and go to a half table, or just kick you off the table. I've had that happen before, and I was only trying to pick up gas money to pay for a trip I took down into Arizona, the traffic had backed up into Boulder City and I had to use the rest room. They gave me back all my bets I had on the table and told me they didn't want my business.

Casinos are not your personal ATM's and these tubs that are around are for anybody that does not set the dice, They had one last year at Palace Station that they took out, they would call a no roll if you didn't hit the back wall with both dice, even if the dice came up seven! Now how could anybody miss the back walk on a tub, would be a good question that most of you guys would ask that has never played on one of these tables.

The table was so bouncy that if you didn't land the dice just right they would bounce back at you. You couldn't put to much energy into a shot, if you didn't want it to bounce back down the table and you were trying to stop your shot after it hit the back wall!

There are a few of the casinos down in Laughlin that put the board in the middle of the table, they don't like winners either, so you may not be welcome there either. While you may read some great pieces of fiction on these tables, like the one that was told about a table they have in Casino Niagara not to long ago by our famous fiction writer from Canada. He was writing about how easy it was for him to make money on that table, so one of the guys that post on the main board he post on went there looking for easy money what he found turned out to be a nightmare of a little table, where nobody could keep the dice on the table.

His whole thought process changed after making his trip to Canada about what he read on the different DI craps boards!

Your comments on people not being able to win on a short table or bouncy table or that Casinos don't want people to win are laughable. Players win in craps every day. Heck, probably every hour. Casinos do not care if people win following the rules. And most of the time if you don't follow a rule they will just ask you to do so. You consperacy theory people kill me.

ZCore13

Mark Twain casino (yes, really, there is a Mark Twain casino) in LaGrange, Missouri has a craps tub. It was packed when I was there.

Quote: AlanMendelson

Ahigh the night I invited you to dinner at Caesars, you had the gaul to decline my invitation, but you showed up at the table where I was shooting with pen and notepad to record my throws. You spied on me, and didnt have the courtesy to introduce yourself. You gave the excuse that you didn't know who I was but your friend pointed me out to you. You were at the table alone. You were the only one at the table with a notepad taking notes. Am I to think that one of your Vegas friends recognized me from Los Angeles TV? Well that is very flattering.

Regarding past attempts, I cancelled once, and you declined for various reasons twice.

Priority? Who the hell do you think you are that you are a priority? You are full of yourself. And I don't care if I get suspended or nuked for ever. You can't take criticism. You are here only to establish yourself as the King of Craps. You do not have a controlled throw. You are an admitted loser at craps. You are an Emperor who wears no clothes.

Just really quickly, the dinner invitation was not on the same day as the day I saw him at the casino even though Alan claimed that it was.

Alan has stated things that are not true. This is not unusual for him, frankly, which is a big reason I had put him on block and a big reason why I generally don't care to talk to him.

He doesn't seem to be really interested in the truth sometimes.

Quote: Ahigh

Just really quickly, the dinner invitation was not on the same day as the day I saw him at the casino even though Alan claimed that it was.

Alan has stated things that are not true. This is not unusual for him, frankly, which is a big reason I had put him on block and a big reason why I generally don't care to talk to him.

He doesn't seem to be really interested in the truth sometimes.

No, it was the next day. I invited you for dinner on Friday and it was Saturday that you saw me. I didn't know it was you until you came on this forum and posted how you saw me shooting. That's when I put two and two together and realized it was you at my table with the note pad. Then I went back to your videos and saw that it was you.

Then you confirmed you were there.

You are just full of it. Man up.

Quote: AlanMendelson

No, it was the next day. I invited you for dinner on Friday and it was Saturday that you saw me. I didn't know it was you until you came on this forum and posted how you saw me shooting. That's when I put two and two together and realized it was you at my table with the note pad. Then I went back to your videos and saw that it was you.

Then you confirmed you were there.

You are just full of it. Man up.

Nope, you're lying. I was not taking any notes nor did I care anything about your shot. You're living in fantasy land, bro.

I'm sure you believe by now what you're saying, but it's not true. I had friends with me that will back up my story. Three friends of mine where there and with me the entire time I was there and could tell you every last detail of what happened while I was at the casino if you really want me to go into the details on this and prove that I was not there writing notes about your shot, we can go there.

Stop lying about me, please.

I already admitted I was there and that I saw you. Why do you gotta insist that I am lying about the other stuff? You're really making this into a big deal!

What do you think it is that I am hiding?

Say whatever you want about me, but stop with the lies.

Alright, I admit I was writing down your rolls. In fact I had a covert video camera recording your throw. I just published this video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0

I will be submitting the recorded rolls to Aliens for diagnosing their spaceships.

How about that?

They are so curious about you because you're so famous!!! Your energy is more powerful than mixing matter and anti-matter.

You are just the first person to figure out what a bs artist I am, so I'm coming clean!!!

ALAN


Now see that is cool, as one gets older your mind becomes a scrap book of great
times and great images. that is one i would have remembered had i been there.

that also shows a flare for life , that we all need more of

dicesitter

Quote: AlanMendelson

May I just correct one point: I did not recognize Ahigh, and frankly I wouldn't know him today if he walked up to me. he would have to introduce himself. I never watched the Ahigh show long enough or any of his other videos to get a good look at him.

I apologize. It was I who assumed (earlier in this thread) that you had recognized Ahigh at Caesars. My apologies for screwing up the facts.

That was a very cool story though behind the photo. Loved it! *thumbs up*

Quote: Ahigh

What do you think it is that I am hiding? Say whatever you want about me, but stop with the lies.

If a poster is caught in just one lie, one little, eetsy, beetsy baby lie, it shoots his credibility to hell.

I've known Alan on the boards for many years; he is an honorable guy, although we don't see eye to eye on some things.

You on the other hand ... well, let's just be polite and say "the jury is still out."

I think he probably believes what he's saying, but I wasn't watching him roll and writing down his rolls. Alan has a case of mistaken identity.

I do in fact know who Alan is talking about, but it wasn't me. It was someone ELSE. Not me.

I know for a fact that if this continues to get pressed, the truth will be revealed, and the truth is that it was not me.

I have plenty of witnesses, like I said. I wasn't the only one there.

SuperRick wasn't there, but he should be able to ask around about this event and figure out that this person wasn't me.

But aside from everything else, I am known for NOT recording rolls. I have recorded die counts a couple of times, and I have TRIED recording my own throws, without much success. But the description of a person at the table recording throws just ain't me.

Alan may believe what he is saying, yet it is STILL A LIE.

I would suggest that Alan own up to the fact that it was not me there writing down his rolls, and admit that he is mistaken about his claim.

Further, I think Alan wishes to destroy my credibility, otherwise we wouldn't even be talking about this ridiculous situation. It would have just been dropped altogether.

This has nothing to do with me at all except that Alan saw it as a chance to attack me.

The real story is that one of the guys that knows Ahigh just happened to be there charting the tables like he always does before he will play craps and he noticed that it happened to be Alan shooting on one of the tables. He is just one more guy that is a DI that doesn't want anybody to know who he is, so there were no introductions made.

The guy does not post on this board, because he was kicked off, just because of stuff like this, where a post become a pissing contest!

What's the difference if Ahigh was there and didn't talk to Alan, there is no difference what so ever. I once gave my phone number to a guy that I had been on the tables with a few times and the next thing I knew was I was getting a tap on the shoulder telling me that I couldn't give out my phone number to anybody on the table.

I have a lot of out of town players that are DI's walking up to me at the tables, sometimes I will tell a guy to give me a call the next time they are in town, and exchange phone numbers. After that incident we stopped talking to guys at the tables.

Casinos don't like anybody that plays in them to often and gets on good rolls. The other night I was at a table and my phone rang, I stepped away from the table and they told me that I couldn't talk on the phone if I was playing craps. I was about 4 ft away from the table and they took down my bets, I couldn't believe what just happened, I wasn't the shooter. I just had a couple of bet and a pass-line bet, because they make you have one to have a fire bet. The fire bet stayed up and they pushed everything else off.

I asked what had just happened and was told that I couldn't use the phone at the table. I was in a state of shock over this incident. A little while later, the same thing happened again, my wife is in Fla. And I had to take the call. I stepped away from the table and damn if they didn't do the same thing.

I for one would like to know what they think anybody on a phone can do at the craps tables!
I will never go back into that casino again and will bad mouth it to everybody I know that comes into town. I stopped going to tables with a bunch of DI's that are in town a long time ago. Because the casinos blame you if one of these guys gets on a good roll. Your the local that brought them into their casino, which is far from the truth.

There are certain casinos that the DI's love to hit and I just happen to play in a few of them. There are some in Vegas that they also frequent, that you will never catch me in , and always ask why these guys are even playing in them. Their answer is always the same, because they read on the DI boards that so and so won big money at that casino. I just laugh it off when I hear that, some of these casinos are nothing but sweat joints they are playing in.

They will tell you what a hard time they had playing there and guess what the next time they are in town, they will be back over there with a bunch of guys! Just because so and so won money there!

So on that night Ahigh was just an innocent bystander, I got that from the kid in the baseball hat.

https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/craps/13188-2-tales-of-the-same-event-ruined-by-biased-dice/

So now I guess that everybody knows it was Harley that was tracking Alan rolls.
There have been so many times that I've read a trip report from some of the so-called DI's that just didn't match up with what happened on a table, but I'm not about to call anybody out on it. I would always stop by the tables before and after work and some times I would catch someone that was a DI shooting that was with one of the classes that were in town. Everybody else from that class had already left town and it was a Monday or Tuesday morning and I watched this guy shooting, then I would read the trip report they posted. It just didn't match up to what happened.

If you want a really good laugh go on any of these DI boards and read some of the trip reports, so and so had a fifty roll after everybody else had got out of town, there was no one around that saw it happened! They couldn't do a thing when others were around, but by some strange miracle they had their roll after everybody left. Not all of these guys will do that, they tell it like it was, they lost money when they were playing. Some of them write up a really good trip report, there are two guys that post on the DiceInstitute that writes what happened to them when they were playing that you can take to the bank. They are “Clubsodakenny and Diceenator” there is no BS in their reports and that is the way it should be! I enjoyed reading what they wrote, because of that fact.

This discussion of what happened that night doesn't have anything to do with what the thread is all about. You can see where something like this got Harley!!!

Children, children grow up please!! This is worse than preschoolers fighting over a toy!!

Okay... it was not Ahigh at my table. It was someone else who not only has posted here and has had discussions with me here... but that SAME person is also a member of my own forum on my site and even exchanged personal emails with me... and while the two of them were there in the same craps pit, and one of them was even at the same table with me (and it was not a crowded table, I think there were a total of three players) and he knew it was me, neither one of them could say hello?

Wow. Forget everyting else guys. I don't know if it was just that you guys are rude, or smug, or thought I might blow your cover?

Discussion is over for me.

I think it was Colonel Mustard by the Crap table with the dice.

Some people have been hanging around me, too, tracking my throws. At first I was flattered, then one of them said, "awesome! absolutely *never* makes more than 2 of his points, record book stuff here! I never would have believed it!"

Quote:

Alan

Wow. Forget everyting else guys. I don't know if it was just that you guys are rude, or smug, or thought I might blow your cover?

Discussion is over for me.

Now you are sounding like Ahigh, it's all about you! What ever the reason Harley didn't want to talk to you it doesn't matter, he was busy doing his thing, charting the tables. Some players play craps for the fun of it, every time I hear that I want to puke, the guys I hang around with don't play socially, we don't play for the fun of it and when we are in a casino,.. we are there to do only one thing.

It's 4:30 am here while your in bed I'm heading out to play craps, so there will be nobody on the tables when we get there. There are two other DI's that are meeting me, by the time you wake up, we would have hit the casino and hopefully made our money and going back home.

Notice; I did say hopefully, I tell it like it is, no DI wins every time they hit a casino. We could find full tables, even at 5 am sometimes the tables are full, that is why I always say you got to get lucky when you are playing craps! I don't want to wasted my time at a full table, making some screaming fool money. Remember I can play anytime of the day I do not work, but choose to play when I think nobody will be on the tables. If it doesn't workout this morning I have a different time to play in the afternoon, the only difference is the one guy that has to work can't make that time.

Correct


No di will win everytime you hit the casino, in fact i think most lose more times than they
win. I do, everyone that i have talked to indicates that.

The difference is that a good Di understands his throw, and when he is off he quits,
he 5 counts other players . Sunday night i got the dice 2 times, i had 15 rolls and
only 3... 6 & 8's so i quit.... there was about 8 people and even with the 5 count
i lost $130. When i am on i make much more.
This is just my opinion, learning what your throw looks like when its right, and being
able to admit when your horse crap.. and quit is as important as having a good roll.
Only a gambler digs a big hole he cant get out of without luck, and luck is rare
at the casino.


Dicesitter

Quote: superrick

Some players play craps for the fun of it, every time I hear that I want to puke, the guys I hang around with don't play socially, we don't play for the fun of it and when we are in a casino,.. we are there to do only one thing.

Many "regular" or "near-daily" gamblers are playing primarily because they are addicted.

I wonder how many self-proclaimed DI's wear the robes of a DI in order to try to camouflage or explain away / rationalize their gambling addiction?

Quote: MrV

Many "regular" or "near-daily" gamblers are playing primarily because they are addicted.

I wonder how many self-proclaimed DI's wear the robes of a DI in order to try to camouflage or explain away / rationalize their gambling addiction?

That's an interesting question. Is there a meaningful difference between a roulette player who thinks (wrongly) that a number is due and a craps player who thinks (wrongly) that they can influence the outcome of the dice?

Just by the math, the total annual income for craps and for roulette is very similar.

There are more similarities for how the casinos make money off suckers on these games than you might think.

Those who don't believe that there are suckers throwing their money away on these games are most likely to be one of them!

The Nevada gaming stats don't lie.



The hold percentage is much higher on roulette, but a good percentage of those dollars were earned from people who felt they had a better chance of win than they really did in reality!

Quote: MrV

I wonder how many self-proclaimed DI's wear the robes of a DI in order to try to camouflage or explain away / rationalize their gambling addiction?

I'm busted!

[except I don't really believe in the effect of my inveterate dice-setting]

Quote: superrick

What's the difference if Ahigh was there and didn't talk to Alan, there is no difference what so ever.

I don't want this to turn into a discussion about manners, but the invitation for dinner was strictly social. I was picking up the tab. We weren't going to play craps or throw dice at the dinner table.

I don't know about you guys, but when someone extends to me an invitation... and I decline for whatever reason... but then run across that person the following night I would go out of my way to say hello. It's kind of what friendly people do.

Of course, some people aren't very socially conscious. Some don't realize what is right. And some people just make mistakes.

My funniest experience at a craps table went like this.

There were two young guys at the other end of the table and I overhear one of them say to the dealer "is that Alan Mendelson?"
And the dealer responds, "yes it is."

I heard it, so I walked over the couple of steps and extended my hand and said "Hi, I'm Alan, pleasure to meet you."

And the young man shakes my hand, but says "you're not really Alan Mendelson are you?"

And I said, "yes I am."

"No, you're not," the young man said. "You just look like him."

So I reach into my wallet and take out two business cards and give each of the young men a card. They look at the cards and then one of them says, "how did you get his cards?"

Quote: AlanMendelson

I don't want this to turn into a discussion about manners, but the invitation for dinner was strictly social. I was picking up the tab. We weren't going to play craps or throw dice at the dinner table.

I don't know about you guys, but when someone extends to me an invitation... and I decline for whatever reason... but then run across that person the following night I would go out of my way to say hello. It's kind of what friendly people do.

Of course, some people aren't very socially conscious. Some don't realize what is right. And some people just make mistakes.

My funniest experience at a craps table went like this.

There were two young guys at the other end of the table and I overhear one of them say to the dealer "is that Alan Mendelson?"
And the dealer responds, "yes it is."

I heard it, so I walked over the couple of steps and extended my hand and said "Hi, I'm Alan, pleasure to meet you."

And the young man shakes my hand, but says "you're not really Alan Mendelson are you?"

And I said, "yes I am."

"No, you're not," the young man said. "You just look like him."

So I reach into my wallet and take out two business cards and give each of the young men a card. They look at the cards and then one of them says, "how did you get his cards?"

Alan, I think it is awesome that you invited me to dinner. And I guarantee that if I was not there to meet Harley and talk about biased dice OR if Harley hadn't said he didn't want to meet you I would have said hello.

It really is not about manners. Or if it is about manners, I did the right thing as I was there to talk to Harley, and being polite to Harley was more important than saying hello to meet you. I don't regret not saying hello because Harley is already my friend, and I have never ever met you before. Friends come first!

It must be really nice to have people recognize you from film. I have never even once had anyone recognize me that I hadn't met in real life before.

Not even a single time.

We are absolutely different in that regard.

I lived in Santa Monica for over a year. I lived on the 14th floor with a view of the Santa Monica Pier. I got to know the culture of people who live in LA, and the whole thing about people who appear on film and how they are treated differently is something that I am very familiar with.

But the LA culture is just something that I learned is not for me. I didn't really enjoy it for that long. After a few months, all the glamour and glitz wore off, and all I learned was that when people are really nice to you over there, make sure you know where your wallet is!

Now I'm not saying you are just like everyone else over in LA. But working for a company owned by Sony, I went to the Sony studio over where the film Jeopardy and I bumped into plenty of people at the Sony employee store who treated the employees at the store like royal dog crap while they paid below market prices on high end Sony stuff acting like Kings and Queens as they flashed all the money they have by flippantly buying expensive stuff they really didn't even need. I have tons of stories about how arrogant some people who appear in front of cameras are, and if you want to go into the generalizations of how people who appear in front of camera are totally different in the real world, maybe we should just start another thread about that.

So if you want to talk about manners, let's just start another thread. This thread, really, is a thread that Frank started. And I think what he wants to talk about is how people such as yourself have misconceptions about how dice control works and how there are Myths about things that are reinforced by people just like the people on this and other forums who simply don't know as much about controlled shooting as others who have studied in more depth.

So maybe let's go back to the topic, and start another thread on manners if that is what you want to talk about.

Actually, Ahigh, this has everything to do with your claims and about alleged "dice control." And it has everything to do with the topic of this thread.

You have been dodging me and my challenges to you from day one. And this was your latest dodge. Just as my request to be on your show and to throw dice from a cup. You said "no" and that is also a dodge.

You only present information that will only support your view. You do not tolerate differing opinions. You don't even have the courage to meet me face to face.

If you are serious about your claims then do two things:

1. Define exactly what you mean by dice control or dice influencing.
2. Set up a control for your test. Throwing dice from a cup could be one control.

By the way, I have absolute respect for Frank, because at least Frank understands and practices what is a controlled throw. I have not been with Frank when he played and he just might be "the real thing." At least he understands what "the real thing" involves. You don't.

"Quote: EvenBob
And that proof would be what, exactly. Because you say so? The
challenge will never happen because you will never agree on what
constitutes 'proof'."

Ahigh replied: "I'm not the expert on proofs, so I don't mind telling you that I don't know!"

Here's a thought. Come up with what the proof should be
before you make a challenge.

while i will avoid talking about dice control or influence because we all know it does not work,
so what i will talk about is a great night by our dice team.

I indicated i could only play 1 hour so got there at 6 and they were having a good roll that ended
up about 23 with 4 pass winners, i got the dice and only had 1 hand and it was a 28 with 5 pass line
winners and 32% 6 & 8's. so i cashed out with a nice profit.

Ready to hit Laughlin.... i understand tonight was completely luck, so i hope we are also lucky this
weekend there.
So good shooting, and i hope we continue to get lucky while you try to find a way test us all
to determine why this luck persists.


dicesitter.

Quote: dicesitter

while i will avoid talking about dice control or influence because we all know it does not work,...

Come on dicesitter, we know that dice control is possible. I think even the skeptics agree to the possibility. But to make it possible the throw must show some elements of control. You might have that element of control and I look forward to seeing it. Frank might also have those elements of control.

I think that anyone who can show us elements of control could in fact influence dice.

I will never say "impossible."

It persists because you have nobody that's independent if your group with you reporting on it. Visit Ahigh's house on a Tuesday or tell someone where you will be to play so they can independently confirm how persistently lucky you are.

ZCore13

Quote: dicesitter

i got the dice and only had 1 hand and it was a 28 with 5 pass line winners and 32% 6 & 8's. so i cashed out with a nice profit...i hope we continue to get lucky while you try to find a way test us all to determine why this luck persists.

I know a "test" for you: let your bad, bone arranging dog bark, snarl and piss while on TV at Ahigh's table.

Show his viewers what a craps stud you really are.

You talk the talk ... do you walk the walk?

*mask optional*

Quote: EvenBob

"Quote: EvenBob
And that proof would be what, exactly. Because you say so? The
challenge will never happen because you will never agree on what
constitutes 'proof'."

Ahigh replied: "I'm not the expert on proofs, so I don't mind telling you that I don't know!"

Here's a thought. Come up with what the proof should be
before you make a challenge.

I've learned from 7craps about chi-squared and p-values.

Here's a p-value on expected distributions of pairs and non-pairs for a section of rolls from the show.

This was admittably cherry-picked and I have no idea if it proves anything, but it's a p-value from a sliding window of outcomes during the show...

Seven outs 12 (75.00%) - Seven winners 4 (25.00%)
Pairs 17 20.24% - 16.67% = 3.57% (+3.00 rolls)
Hards 12 14.29% - 11.11% = 3.17% (+2.67 rolls)
HiLos 5 5.95% - 5.56% = 0.40% (+0.33 rolls)
H2 3/0 ( 3.57% - 2.78% = +0.67)
H4 2/1 ( 2.38% - 2.78% = -0.33)
H6 0/0 ( 0.00% - 2.78% = -2.33)
H8 2/0 ( 2.38% - 2.78% = -0.33)
H10 8/5 ( 9.52% - 2.78% = +5.67)
H12 2/0 ( 2.38% - 2.78% = -0.33)
EZ: 67 (79.76% - 83.33% = -3.00)
X**2: 16.56 p: 0.01106

The p-value says that the chance of these rolls:

55`63`55`55`63`41`31`11`32`42`64`22`22`63`61`54
12`41`42`31`54`42`11`65`41`54`52`23`11`64`64`65`66`62`44`65`52`53`61`12`52`12`54`55`66`32
62`64`32`65`62`32`43`52`43`54`52`32`43`43`31`65`55`62`43`31`63`42`43`53`32`61`62`52`62`44
65`55`43`55`65`63`64`55

Which were admittably cherry-picked is not very likely to have that many hard tens in it.

And this one which shows 8 55's, far outstretching the expected number of hard tens in that number of events. And I'm pretty sure if you just did the test to see how many hard tens versus non-hard tens you got, the p-value would say "yeah that's not a random number of hard tens" when you just look at hard tens versus non-hard tens.

I don't know if that's "PROOF" but when I set out to demonstrate a lot of hard tens and I did and the p-values say "yeah, that's not very likely to happen randomly" and then I say that's what I was trying to do, that's what I have understood from folks is the method of proving dice control.

I haven't gone into the slow motion, but all of this was done very deliberately. And I'm trying to follow the advice about how to do this, but I'll say it again, I'm no expert in proofs. All this chi-squared and hypothesis stuff is not my forte.

How to prove stuff like this, not so much. I need some help. That's why I'm here. Dale had to operate the slow-mo camera because I was throwing the dice. And likewise I need someone to take all this evidence and say "that was proof" or "you just got lucky punk!!!"

11: ------ 2 (3)
21: --- 3 (3)
22: ---- 4 (2)
31: ---- 4 (4)
32: ------- 5 (7)
41: --- 5 (3)
33: 6 (0)
42: ---- 6 (4)
51: 6 (0)
61: --- 7 (3)
52: ------ 7 (6)
43: ------- 7 (7)
53: -- 8 (2)
44: ---- 8 (2)
62: ------ 8 (6)
63: ----- 9 (5)
54: ----- 9 (5)
55: ---------------- 10 (8)
64: ----- 10 (5)
65: ------- 11 (7)
66: ---- 12 (2)
X**2: 28.93 p: 0.08918

Well see i understand that, and it makes sense. And to give your position proper respect
our team talked about that last night. Since there were only 6 people at the table last
night and 5 or 6 last sunday night, and since last night 4 of the 6 were team members
it is not fair to say we won, so the money we seemed to have won will be placed in
a different area so as not to be confused with real money.

This verification stuff is important... and in light of its importance to us and
you, we will provide a play list here in Wisconsin so you can fly up and verify
our sessions. Now you understand one session does not mean much, you may
have to fly up a number of times, or just come up and stay for a month or two.

So in keeping with our desire to allow you to sleep better at night, we will cooperate
in any maner we can to allow your inspection.

Our team will remain ever vigilant to the quest of proper verification and at the same
time restless and unsettled until we obtain your complete approval.


Dicesitter

That's funny. A team of dice controllers in Wisconsin. What a great start to my day.

ZCore13

Quote: Ahigh

55: ---------------- 10 (8)

I asked about this in another thread -- the source of the 8 hard-10s in 200 rolls. Was this in one of your shows Ahigh that you made eight hard-10s in 200 rolls?

In another thread ("Up or Down in 2013?" in General Discussion), the following statement was made:

Quote: Zcore13

I would say there are:

Less than 100 people in the WORLD that can play Blackjack full time for a profit
Less than 20 people in the WORLD that can play Craps full time for a profit
Less than 5 people in the WORLD that can play Roulette full time for a profit

My question is: "Where are all the dice influencers/controllers who wish to take issue with the statement that less than 20 people worldwide can play craps full time for a profit?" I realize this may be more of a rhetorical question.

But if you who are the proponents of dice control--and especially the sellers who market their dice control methods--believe so much that what you are doing give you an advantage long-term, and also assuming there are well more than 20 of you worldwide, then I would think you may dispute this statement.

just blind luck aaron?

Funny. All that practice and calculating and video taping and classes, etc, etc, etc, and a casual penny slot grandma is just as good(or seemingly better) than everyone else.
In 20 years there will be craps school teachers and book writers claiming they were there when "The Cotton ball" influenced the dice to a record roll.


ZCore13

" roughly 1 in 1.56 trillion " seems like it was past due for somebody to do it. So why the fuss ?

Also, don't forget, it's quite possible that multiple other people have had longer rolls where nobody was making enough money to take notice.

The significant thing of this story is that a record was made of this performance.

At the Silverton a few days ago, some guy turned $300 into over $8,000 while I watched.

No biggie, no dice control. Just luck.

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