Myths About Controlled Shooters, Shooting and the Captain

removed
silly

Sally

excellent post Alan


I must admit i have read the account of the Captains roll, i think it did happen, but whether it did or not it was fun to read and still is.
I yearn for the old days, i would have given an eye tooth to have been there in Vegas or Atlantic city in the old days of craps, or
the old days of lots of stuff... our modern life has lost so much i think that it saddens me at times.

OUr families now that is the real stuff, you need to take care of that, but other stuff adds to life, i love a fishing tournament, put yourself
up against the best , a good poker tournament comes close. craps is sorta you against yourself ( if your are a dice sitter) or you against
the table .... Frank has had 5 50 rolls or better in a year.... that is hard to do.. after i took my third class i had 4 rolls over 50
in 8 months.. i had only 1 to go to match Frank.... i really wanted that... not to brag... frank is so much better than i as are the other
greats GTC guys .... stickman, dice pilot dom and on and on... i am just a rookie, but to learn from them and have the opportunity
to go for the 5 rolls over 50 was like being in a large walleye event and being only 1 pound out going into the last day... that is
what life is all about.... really trying to do the very best you can...

I came up short, and may never have that opportunity again... but it was fun, the great stories of effort and axccomplishment
to me craps has so much of life in it.


dicesitter

Awesome

Quote: Ahigh

Anyway, this is a general response: people don't get banned from Sam's Town for winning at Craps. .

Again, they won't TELL you if someone is banned
because it makes them subject to lawsuits. Are
you secretly recording them? Who are you reporting
to. I've known the manager of my local grocery
store for 20 years and he still won't tell me who's
been banned for shoplifting because it would get him
fired by the owners if he did.

Casinos are no different. Who's banned and who isn't
for playing certain games isn't public knowledge for a
reason.

Quote:

Ahigh

Frank, please take this in the most positive way, but seriously .. unless you know someone who has more tools for looking at a controlled throw, I can't imagine how you wouldn't want to come and see my lab.

I got so many comments ridiculing me and my work from this forum, and I can understand that from people who don't believe in this stuff.

Ahigh has got the most high tech lab that I've every seen, from the stuff that he has shown us. I would love to be able to do what he is doing, but us older guys are not up on all this kind of stuff that he is doing. Now most of the guys on this and a lot of the other board don't think that it's anything special, but from looking at some of his work, if he keep going he just might be the one that everybody says, why didn't I think about doing that with all that equipment!

They laugh at Columbus, before he made his voyage, you never know what will happen if you don't try and he's giving it one hell of a shot, the way he is going about it!

One of our teachers in Golden Touch created a method of filming dice throws so that the dice go so slowly in the air and on the felt and against the back wall and then back again on the felt that it is amazing and mind-boggling to watch them. Studying hundreds upon hundreds of rolls, I realized how much movement controlled dice actually make after hitting the back wall. With so much movement why is it dice influencers can get an edge? As we studied the videos, we realized that a correspondence existed within dice if thrown properly. I write all about that in my book (oh, man, plugging a book again) "Cutting Edge Craps." I even have graphs.

I realize I have been in communication with Ahigh under his real name. I have not seen his equipment but if it is like the Golden Touch one then a lot can be learned from it.

Quote: MrV

Don't sell yourself short; it could be that somebody at Sam's Town saw or even read your book.



If I ran a casino, I'd keep guys like you out of it.

"The best defense is a good offense."

If you really had a good thing, you should have kept it to yourself.

Mr. Scoblete,

Is this the book where you claim "the Arm" had more 30 plus roll hands than Point-Seven-out hands? Or was it another? Exaggerate much?

In those days we really didn't discuss length in terms of rolls but in terms of time. I might have guessed a 30 or more, I doubt it, but that is possible. Even though I wrote the book I haven't read it in years (please don't say, "Good, the book stinks."). Her ability was more in the bam, bam, bam (keep adding some bams) of repeating numbers than anything else.

I think when it comes to her ability, I under-aggerate. She was the greatest I ever saw.

Quote: FrankScoblete

One of our teachers in Golden Touch created a method of filming dice throws so that the dice go so slowly in the air and on the felt and against the back wall and then back again on the felt that it is amazing and mind-boggling to watch them. Studying hundreds upon hundreds of rolls, I realized how much movement controlled dice actually make after hitting the back wall. With so much movement why is it dice influencers can get an edge?

Don't stop there, Frank. Just how much movement do the dice have? A "legal" throw calls for the dice to hit the table surface and then the back wall. For the dice to bounce off the back wall would be part of that "legal throw." So all of that is required of even a dice influencer or dice controller.

But the real question is how much more "movement" would still define an influenced or controlled throw? Can the dice bounce off two walls? Can the dice bounce off the back wall and in separate directions? Can the dice bounce off the back wall with one die travelling two inches and one die travelling fourteen inches?

I really think that if we are going to discuss "influenced dice" and "controlled dice" we need to know the definitions. What one person might be calling controlled or influenced might be nothing more than random to someone else.

So Frank, please... and again... what is your definition of an influenced or controlled throw?

Again, I have to point out that Sharpshooter was able to define it in his book, and some other proponents of DI have offered their definitions.

Thanks.

Quote: FrankScoblete

She was the greatest I ever saw.

Interesting, because as I understand the claim, "The Arm" was not a trained dice setter, I mean dice influencer: she was an "unconscious rhythm roller."

If "the best" was an "unconscious rhythm roller," then logically shouldn't others aspire to master Unconscious Rhythm Rolling?

Quote: MrV

Interesting, because as I understand the claim, "The Arm" was not a trained dice setter, I mean dice influencer: she was an "unconscious rhythm roller." If "the best" was an "unconscious rhythm roller," then logically shouldn't others aspire to master Unconscious Rhythm Rolling?

Okay. Frank Scoblete used the term "unconscious rhythm roller." You are stretching to quote this term from another forum, and you are trying to twist it into some incomprehensible anti-DI innuendo.

Nevertheless, I will address your statements. "Unconscious rhythm roller" is simply another way of referring to "innate ability" in dice tossing. Of course, one can aspire to innate ability, but one cannot acquire innate ability. However, one can train and develop skills (that may become "second nature") without innate ability.

Do you have some other notion on the topic?

Don't forget, sex sells too!

Quote:

Quote: FrankScoblete
One of our teachers in Golden Touch created a method of filming dice throws so that the dice go so slowly in the air and on the felt and against the back wall and then back again on the felt that it is amazing and mind-boggling to watch them. Studying hundreds upon hundreds of rolls, I realized how much movement controlled dice actually make after hitting the back wall. With so much movement why is it dice influencers can get an edge?

This is the same thing Ahigh can do, but when all of you guys look at what he has been doing you make fun of him. So Frank, please tell every one how those dice stay on axis, when they are bouncing all over the place, even with the best looking shot that someone can make! I for one would love to hear your explanation for what is really going on when the dice hit the table.

I think we can all get a good laugh out of this one, the videos don't lie, there is no way that your dice will stay on axis, unless you walk them down to the end of the table and place them there!

Now that we're stuck with Frank, and can't start any other threads on dice control,we might as well get some answers out of him.
It's time to kill one of those other threads, that should have never been started about Frank!!!!!!!!

Frank lets run this scenario, you have been subpoenaed to testify about dice control, your hero that you helped create “The Influencer ” is being sued for scamming 1000 players that took his new class out large sums of money, claiming that he could teach everybody how to control the dice! You are now the expert witness on the stand, how are you going to defend your hero? Can you use one of these videos to prove that he can do it?

Thanks.

Yeah, this much I am sure: I will never be a successful author on the game of craps. The truth is just not what people want to hear. And even when you tell the truth, they have this reverberating series of things that have been pounded into their heads over the years that they just won't let go of.

Superstition in all its fantastic glory!!!

Quote: Ahigh

Yeah, this much I am sure: I will never be a successful author on the game of craps. The truth is just not what people want to hear. !

So you think authors write books only about
what people want to hear? You're joking, right?

Quote: Ahigh

Yeah, this much I am sure: I will never be a successful author on the game of craps. The truth is just not what people want to hear. !

Quote: EvenBob

So you think authors write books only about what people want to hear? You're joking, right?

Note that the quote to which you responded referred to a successful author.

Reading comprehension helps.

Supperick,

You are a trip! One minute you are arguing that dice influencing is NOT possible.
The next minute you're pretending to work in surveillance.
The next minute you're pretending to be a DI that records every roll and you're citing Ahigh as being some kind of an expert.

WTF? How many different people do you have running around in your head these days?

Keyser

Quote: tupp

Do you have some other notion on the topic?

Sure.

The term "unconscious rhythm roller" is completely nonsensical.

The notion that such a person was the "best" indicates how low the bar is set.

Besides: "innate" means you are basically born with it; how can someone "aspire to innate ability?"

Let me guess: "unconsciously?"

Quote: Ahigh

Yeah, this much I am sure: I will never be a successful author on the game of craps. The truth is just not what people want to hear. And even when you tell the truth, they have this reverberating series of things that have been pounded into their heads over the years that they just won't let go of.

Superstition in all its fantastic glory!!!

Unfortunately Ahigh, we really don't know what your position is because you keep changing it. One day you're the world's greatest shooter because you are a dice controller, and the next day it's all luck. You flip flop a lot and it's gotten to the point where we can't separate the sarcasm from an honest change in position.

Why don't you simply and clearly state what your beliefs are and what you are supposed to be "testing" for or "demonstrating" on your TV show so we can follow your reasoning.

I'm afraid some of us are lost.

Quote: AlanMendelson

Unfortunately Ahigh, we really don't know what your position is because you keep changing it. One day you're the world's greatest shooter because you are a dice controller, and the next day it's all luck. You flip flop a lot and it's gotten to the point where we can't separate the sarcasm from an honest change in position.

Why don't you simply and clearly state what your beliefs are and what you are supposed to be "testing" for or "demonstrating" on your TV show so we can follow your reasoning..

His position is he used to be best but wised up and
is now convinced it was all random luck. At least
thats what he now says.

Alan,

What's also strange is the way Suppericks position changes from post to post as well. You don't suppose that Supperick, Ahigh, and Harley are all just one guy working down at a gambling store?

Quote:

Keyser
Supperick,

You are a trip! One minute you are arguing that dice influencing is NOT possible.
The next minute you're pretending to work in surveillance.
The next minute you're pretending to be a DI that records every roll and you're citing Ahigh as being some kind of an expert.

WTF? How many different people do you have running around in your head these days?

You better learn to read, to start with I never said I worked in surveillance,..I said that I had to go into surveillance to review elevator and escalator accidents, you are starting to sound like my good buddy the great fiction writer The Madprofessor, he too uses the same kind of tactics to weasel out of something, there are plenty of real DI's that know me from around the country, and they know what kind of work I did before I retired.

If you think that becoming a DI will make you money, I can recommend a good school that you can take a class from, the only problem is just like all those that proceeded before you, most likely you will fail, and you wasted your money. If you think that reading all the fiction that is written on becoming a DI will help you out,.. I can give you some great books that are nothing but fiction, recommendations.

Do you even play the game you sound like someone that plays roulette and doesn't know a thing about craps. You already proved to be that you love to read fiction anyway!

Stop right there. All I ask is that you clear up some of your strange positions.

Are you a DI/ DC?
Do you believe that you can influence or control the dice?
If you are a DI/DC, then why can't there be other DI/DCs out there?
One minute you're arguing that the Wynn incident and Archie Karas weren't DI/DCs, the next moment your off in left field.

And what does being an elevator mechanic that happens to have visited a surveillance room have to do with knowing the truth about DI/DC incidents?


Exactly where do you really stand?

Please pick a position and stick with it.

-Keyser

Is anyone on this message board actually making money at craps with DC/DI?

Quote: AxelWolf

Is anyone on this message board actually making money at craps with DC/DI?

I saw only two shooters who appeared to be DIs win.

One was the surgeon who won only a modest amount of money.
The second was the "mystery shooter" at Caesars several years ago who I saw only once and he won a few hundred dollars.

On the other, a player at Caears about a month ago won three million dollars off the rolls of a random roller.

deleted

Quote: AxelWolf

Is anyone on this message board actually making money at craps with DC/DI?

pretty similar to Alan..

The Best two shooters I have ever seen both looked me dead in the eyes and said "The dice are random"... There are only good shooters and bad shooters... And the moment you realized that, the sooner you'll start making money..

Some people (not all) who believe in DI tend to make their bets to their so-called "advantage numbers". Over time it might skew your play to only bet a certain way, and will stop you from making money on your roll... For example, a guy can practice at home throwing 6 & 8s all day buy one day at the casino, He'll be splashing 4s & 5s. And because of his "advantage" he'll probably waste about 6-8 rolls before he realizes that he should put something on it.... Now you might think 6-8 rolls is nothing but over time it will show.

I shoot pretty well... And After I shoot, a lot of people at casinos come running behind me asking for lessons and calling me a DI. But I still tell them the same thing that was told to me.

can you make money shooting.. Yes

But Just learn to Make Smart bets... thats it

Let me clear up a few things:

First and foremost, I gave up trying to reason with Alan and EvenBob. Too much effort going back and forth with them.

As far as "it's all random" I got tired of people telling me this, so I gave in.

When I go over p-values, the math says that the chance I have of randomly having an SRR of 6.48 or whatever it is is 0.0527 or something like that, so it's like a little more likely than one in 20 times a random distribution will be this far off. So I think that 1 in 40 would be when you have that many MORE sevens and 1 in 40 would be when you have that many FEWER sevens (correct me if I'm wrong).

So my official position on my SRR for over 3,198 rolls is that I just hit a 1 in 40 longshot to have such a good SRR for these rolls.

My performance tonight was in line with my expectations for luck:

I was heaviest on the hard 8
My heaviest face was the four face
And my RSR was about 15.00%

Demonstrating my really great luck at throwing the dice.

That's my official position.

If you want to know why I call it luck it's because I'm giving in on the terms and accepting that I am just really lucky. Consistently lucky.

I can live with that.

I am tired of arguing about the other terms. Luck works for me.

I'm so lucky, I like to hang out at the

Quote: TheWolf713

pretty similar to Alan..

The Best two shooters I have ever seen both looked me dead in the eyes and said "The dice are random"... There are only good shooters and bad shooters... And the moment you realized that, the sooner you'll start making money..

Some people (not all) who believe in DI tend to make their bets to their so-called "advantage numbers". Over time it might skew your play to only bet a certain way, and will stop you from making money on your roll... For example, a guy can practice at home throwing 6 & 8s all day buy one day at the casino, He'll be splashing 4s & 5s. And because of his "advantage" he'll probably waste about 6-8 rolls before he realizes that he should put something on it.... Now you might think 6-8 rolls is nothing but over time it will show.

I shoot pretty well... And After I shoot, a lot of people at casinos come running behind me asking for lessons and calling me a DI. But I still tell them the same thing that was told to me.

can you make money shooting.. Yes

But Just learn to Make Smart bets... thats it

Maybe we can get TheWolf713 to take the "SooPoo" challenge in July?

@petroglyph

I would gladly accept an invitation and participate in the event.. I will be in Vegas mid July..

I don't have a lot to do right now and find it hard to keep up with this topic. I can only imagine if I had an advantage 24/7 x all the casinos plus all the comps and hot chicks I would get at the craps table. Heck If I just mention the word casino chicks get wet. I certainly would not have time to post here.

@ TheWolf713
Cool, I knew you were a contender

Quote: MrV

The term "unconscious rhythm roller" is completely nonsensical.

... and the prior post:

Quote: tupp

"Unconscious rhythm roller" is simply another way of referring to "innate ability" in dice tossing.

Reading comprehension...

Quote: MrV

The notion that such a person was the "best" indicates how low the bar is set.

Ah... so that's the innuendo.

No. Anybody with minimal life experience knows that innate ability often trumps practiced skill.

Quote: MrV

Besides: "innate" means you are basically born with it; how can someone "aspire to innate ability?" Let me guess: "unconsciously?"

... and the prior post:

Quote: tupp

Of course, one can aspire to innate ability, but one cannot acquire innate ability. However, one can train and develop skills (that may become "second nature") without innate ability.

R-E-A-D-I-N-G

C-O-M-P-R-E-H-E-N-S-I-O-N

I Asked My GF what she thought about all this she said she is getting all hot and bothered just watching me read about this stuff. She said she was going to call over a few of her stripper friends. I asked really ? she walked a way and called me an idiot claiming holdem flop controllers are way sexier.

Quote: tupp

.
R-E-A-D-I-N-G

C-O-M-P-R-E-H-E-N-S-I-O-N

Oh, I "comprehend" your garbled point, such as it was.

It would seem I understood it better than you.

How in god's name can someone "aspire to innate ability?"

The statement is absurd.

Either you have the natural ability, the aptitude: or you don't.

You're born with it, or you aren't.

Quote: MrV

How in god's name can someone "aspire to innate ability?" The statement is absurd. Either you have the natural ability, the aptitude: or you don't. You're born with it, or you aren't.

Well, it appears that one of us lacks the ability to understand the meaning of "aspire," and one of us is also unable to discern the difference between "aspire" and "acquire/attain."

Hint: One can aspire to something without ever being able to acquire or attain that something.

WHY would one consider aspiring to something which is impossible to achieve?

That makes no sense.

"To dream the impossible dream..."

Sorry, but I prefer reality; it may be a bit scary at times, but its solidity and its certainty provide a sort of bedrock security which I find compelling.

Quote: MrV

WHY would one consider aspiring to something which is impossible to achieve?

... and prior post quoted yet again (with added emphasis).

Quote: tupp

... one can aspire to innate ability, but one cannot acquire innate ability. However, one can train and develop skills (that may become "second nature") without innate ability.

Once more: R-E-A-D-I-N-G C-O-M-P-R-E-H-E-N-S-I-O-N.

Quote: Ahigh

Let me clear up a few things:

First and foremost, I gave up trying to reason with Alan and EvenBob. Too much effort going back and forth with them.

Ahigh, I think you couldn't take the heat. I'm sorry you aren't able to stand your ground.

For the record and for everyone to see -- I have no dispute with you personally. I think you're a nice guy. I think you're a smart guy. We even talked on the phone. We even made plans to have dinner together... several times... but the meetings didn't happen for one reason or another. I'd still like to meet you for dinner.

Mature people can and do discuss differences. I'm sorry you can't. I'm sorry you can't accept the challenge that I presented to you which was simply this: I don't think your shots are controlled or influenced or anything but random. I can't conceive of shots that may be set and bounce together on the table surface but then bounce all over the place, with one die travelling a few inches after hitting the back wall and another die travelling two feet after hitting the back wall as being influenced or controlled. They are random, they sometimes show a "good result" but they cannot and should not be called controlled or influenced.

That's my position and it always has been. You shouldn't take it personally, but apparantly you do.

So what I have asked for -- and I have an open mind about this -- is show me that what I think is a "random throw" is actually a "controlled throw" or a "designed throw." Prove to me, please, that when you throw two dice on the table and one bounces off the back wall by two inches and one bounces off the back wall by two feet that you intended that to happen.

I concede that I have a stricter definition of what dice influencing and dice control is compared to most of the members of the forum. But then, since I was into the DI and DC camp early on, back in the early days dice influencing and dice control had a very strict definition. Now it appears that anyone who can either get more 7s or fewer 7s is a dice influencer or a dice controller. And sorry, I don't buy that one bit because even random shooters sometimes get more 7s or fewer 7s.

I even have a dispute with the whole idea of a seven to rolls ratio in that the statistic itself is meaningless. What good does it do if you are avoiding sevens but you are betting 6s and 8s but all you are throwing are horn numbers? You could have a SRR of 1 to 50 but if all of your throws are landing on the outside and your bets are on the inside you haven't won any money with your miraculous SRR.

Several months ago I posted here about the need for definitions: a definition for a controlled shooter, and for an dice influencer, and for a controlled shot and an influenced shot, etc. Then Frank Soblete joins us -- a guy I have always criticized for promoting "dice control" (which I say doesn't exist) and he says "dice control" and "dice influencing" are interchangeable. Well, now that Frank has said that things are different. If all of these years he had been talking about dice influencing I would have been saying "yes, that's possible." But when all he talked about was "dice control" I was saying no one can CONTROL dice, but you can hope to influence them. I think I made my point to Frank, and now I will publicly say he's not so off-the-wall afterall.

Ahigh I haven't given up talking to you. I just am looking for you to explain and show. Explain and show me how dice that bounce in several directions, over different lengths of the table are influenced or coordinated or properly aimed or have some sort of roll by design. Show me the rolls are no different than a random roll. You see, I have been at tables when random rollers have also thrown three or four hardways in a row... and have held the dice for 45 minutes... and have made a ton of money... and all they did was pick up the two dice and throw them and they bounced all over the table just like your shots.

Just because anyone avoids the 7 or has dice that end up showing a hard way doesn't mean they influenced or controlled the dice. But if you can show me that you were able to cause that then I can be convinced you can influence or control. Can you throw two dice that flip and turn and bounce and by design show a hard ten similar to what a high diver does when he does three flips and a twist and cuts through the water like a needle without a splash?

Some folks just need to let it go. No one is going to make you rich. No one is going to jump just because you tell/ask them to. What I really like about Ahigh is that it's not about the money. On this board quite refreshing.

I'm three weeks I'll be in Tunica and for the first time in my life I plan on tossing some dice at the craps table. Whats the chances of me being a "natural" at throwing the dice and winning some money??

Quote: Mikey75

I'm three weeks I'll be in Tunica and for the first time in my life I plan on tossing some dice at the craps table. Whats the chances of me being a "natural" at throwing the dice and winning some money??

If it really is your first time you will have a roll that will last 45 minutes and you will make a small fortune. You will then be hooked like the rest of us for the rest of your life. Enjoy!!

If that happens I'll be sure to post about it!!! Lol. The only dice I've ever tossed is playing yahtzee. Does that count?? I thought about asking Frank if he would want to mentor me between now and then and see if he could take someone that's never tossed dice before and turn them into a winner. Three weeks away and I'll let you know how I've done if I can get a turn at the table.

How far is Tunica from NOLA? I wanna get in on that action..

SUPERRICK: So Frank, please tell every one how those dice stay on axis, when they are bouncing all over the place, even with the best looking shot that someone can make! I for one would love to hear your explanation for what is really going on when the dice hit the table.

FRANK: I don’t think I said “bouncing all over the place” but I did say this, “I realized how much movement controlled dice actually make after hitting the back wall.” Bouncing all over the place is not what dice influence (I use that term here because Alan prefers it) is about. The dice move in a corresponding way; that is their relationship to each other remains the same (or close to the same) causing an on-axis throw or avoiding the seven. Each may do several rolls in much the same way. That is correspondence. Obviously, the more rolls the greater the chance that control might lessen.

SUPERRICK: I think we can all get a good laugh out of this one, the videos don't lie, there is no way that your dice will stay on axis, unless you walk them down to the end of the table and place them there!

FRANK: I wish I could do that!

SUPERRICK: Frank lets run this scenario, you have been subpoenaed to testify about dice control, your hero that you helped create “The Influencer ” is being sued for scamming 1000 players that took his new class out large sums of money, claiming that he could teach everybody how to control the dice! You are now the expert witness on the stand, how are you going to defend your hero? Can you use one of these videos to prove that he can do it?

FRANK: First, there would be no need to sue since the class had a money-back guarantee. That was never hidden from students. We announced it in class. Wong made a point of that being an important feature of what we were doing when he took the class. We were selling something that if you didn’t like it; you could (in a sense) return it for a full refund. (You didn’t even have to say you didn’t like it. You could just ask for your money back.)

In my 10 years no one asked for his/her money back. I assume Golden Touch will continue with that policy.

Now, is “The Influencer” being sued because of the class or for his dice control skill? It’s unclear to me what you are saying. Let’s say “The Influencer” stinks at dice influence. He’s terrible, awful, completely ridiculous. Does that mean he can’t teach others how to do it? Michael Phelps’ swimming coach is no Michael Phelps. Should he be sued because he isn’t such a great Olympian? Most major league managers were not great major leaguers; some never even played in the major leagues. Should they be sued? The Yankees batting coach never even played big league ball and he instructs some of the best players in the game. Now, if “The Influencer” you are talking about is the Captain, sure, I’d show the videos of him shooting. Still, the lawsuit has to be about the class. Could you sue Mohammad Ali because he really wasn’t “the greatest?”

ALAN MENDELSON: Don't stop there, Frank. Just how much movement do the dice have? A "legal" throw calls for the dice to hit the table surface and then the back wall. For the dice to bounce off the back wall would be part of that "legal throw." So all of that is required of even a dice influencer or dice controller.

But the real question is how much more "movement" would still define an influenced or controlled throw? Can the dice bounce off two walls? Can the dice bounce off the back wall and in separate directions? Can the dice bounce off the back wall with one die traveling two inches and one die traveling fourteen inches?

FRANK: Movement isn’t the sole key as much as movement that keeps the dice in a corresponding situation. In “Cutting Edge Craps” I do explain rolls that seem at first to be filled with movement but are actually controlled. This was termed the “V-Spread.” The dice hit the pyramids in a way that sends them in separate directions but they end up in a line – making a “V” pattern. Obviously the more movement the better the chance that the dice will roll over areas of the layout with different consistencies and that would certainly hurt the control. Also, keep in mind I am not talking perfection here --- the edges are not immense in dice influence.

Visually dice I used to think were random, now with the incredible slow motion I discovered they were not. So the eyes can deceive us. Still, I’ll repeat this – a controlled throw or influenced dice will give you a rather small edge. Perfection just doesn’t exist.

One last thing that should interest some of you: In the above book I go into two scenarios where the back wall actually behaves like a flat wall. That should stimulate some raised eyebrows.

Thanks Frank. Which of the following would say has the beter chance for a shot that either maintains influence or control:

A. dice that are rolled or thrown gently, roll softly to the back wall and bounce the least amount of space off the back wall

B. dice that are thrown hard, jump and bounce and travel different amounts on the table surface after hitting the back wall

I'd say "A" if they bounce once, hit the back wall softly and die. Not that easy to do. The harder the throw the worse it usually is.

Quote: FrankScoblete

I'd say "A" if they bounce once, hit the back wall softly and die. Not that easy to do. The harder the throw the worse it usually is.

thank you Frank, that's exactly what I hoped you'd say and I agree.

Quote: ewjones080

How far is Tunica from NOLA? I wanna get in on that action..

Lol. If there is any action it will certainly suprise me.

As I stated earlier I've never played craps. I'm more into BJ. I am going to visit the craps table on my next trip. I know NOTHING about craps. How to bet, throw the dice, nothing. What would be the cheapest way to go to get a fundamental understanding of the game before my actual trip? I've thought about seeing if any of Frank's book where avaliable on kindle but even then I would have no idea of which one to purchase. I'm not looking to influence the dice, because I do understand that it take years of practice if it is even possible. I'm more interested in where I should put money on the table before I take my first ever roll, to take advantage of what would be beginners luck, should I get a decent roll.

Quote: ewjones080

How far is Tunica from NOLA? I wanna get in on that action..

It's about 5.5 hours. Helps explain why I have driven to Tunica a ~dozen times from St. Louis in 2 years (also 5.5 hours from the western 'burbs), but I have never been to New Orleans.