Responses for Frank Scoblete

I started the "questions" thread so Frank could respond directly to questions and if we were satisfied with his answers we could just digest them and not clog up the thread with responses.

I started this thread for responses. I do not need to respond to my first questions to Frank because I just wanted his opinion. He gave, and thank you.

I do want to respond to this:

Quote: FrankScoblete

Hi Alan:

I know there is a debate about the words "dice influencing," "dice control," "rhythmic rolling," "rhythm rolling" but I just consider all of them synonyms. I prefer using the term "dice control" because it sounds more powerful than the other three but, again, I just think of these words as synonyms.

Frank, I honestly think that's a problem for the purposes of your discussion. I think you will find there are many who believe in dice "influencing" but not dice "control." I think many people separate the two -- influencing meaning have some effect, and dice control meaning some exact result. When I hear someone claim dice "control" I say impossible. When someone claims "dice influencing" I listen up to the possibility.

I know you have always used the term "dice control" but had I known then that you might really mean just "dice influencing" then I would have given you more attention to what you were saying. Now, I admit, I have to rethink my past thoughts about what you wrote. And now I have to wonder were you talking about actual "control" or just "influencing"? You might not appreciate the difference, but I do and I think a lot of others would say "influencing is possible but control is not."

Quote: FrankScoblete

Shooters try for greater and greater levels of on-axis performance because then other things are possible with dice control but a shooter who just has average axis control (and using the Hardway set) is still a controlled shooter if the SRR shows he is. His casino play, given some time, should start to reflect that too but I know controlled shooters can go through awful stretches --- I certainly have.

I also believe that controlled shooting is not controlled for every shot. Sometimes the dice leave your hands and you know the shot is random --- you just pray like all the other gamblers at that moment. Sometimes the shot hits chips that probably randomizes the throw; and at almost all times the back wall reduces the control of the shot. So as rolls become longer there are plenty of times when you actually do need a little help from Lady Luck. I've never hid this fact in my writing but somehow it gets lost in the shuffle.

These two paragraphs above illustrate the problem for using both "influencing" and "control" interchangeably. I can't accept someone who has "control" to lose. But I can understand someone who just has "influence" also needing some luck to accomplish his goal.

I also can't accept that some "controlled shots" are controlled shots when the shooter slips up. Look, if a shooter tries a controlled shot and the dice slip or he hiccups when the dice are released and the throw is bad, then simply the throw was bad. There is no such thing as a controlled shot that doesn't work.

If the shot doesn't work, it wasn't a controlled shot. When a ball player hits a line drive it means it's not a grounder. We need some clear definition of terms to continue the discussion.

In all practicality, we all influence the dice to some degree. A slow, soft throw that takes a soft bounce to the back wall affords more opportunity for influencing than a hard throw that bounces all over the place even using the hardways set. I can't imagine that a "set" such as the "hardway set" by itself qualifies any shot for being an influenced shot or a controlled shot.

Even Sharpshooter set parameters for an influenced shot. So I can't imagine any shot to be EFFECTIVELY INFLUENCED unless all of the conditions set by Sharpshooter are followed which include:

proper set and grip
soft throw with dice close together and on axis to the end of the come box at a 45-degree angle
soft roll to the back wall
dice softly touching or bouncing off the back wall

What Sharpshooter wrote about -- the same strategy that Patterson and Heavy and others discussed years ago, to me is what makes dice influencing possible. No one ever used the word "control" until you did, and those that heard the word "control" considered it to be predicting the exact result of the dice as in a hop bet.

To sum up my feeling about the use and possibility of dice influencing and dice control, please consider this analogy:

I think it is possible to influence dice. I think it's impossible to control dice.
I think it is possible for a major leage pitcher to throw a fast ball into the strike zone on each and every pitch. I think it's impossible for a pitcher to throw a fast ball into the strike zone at 96.33 miles per hour on each every pitch.

Thanks for your responses and the time you spend here. If others have not told you allow me to say it is very much appreciated. And when you want to do an Infomercial call me, I'll give you a discount because I like the subject! LOL

Alan, you are probably right in separating the "dice control" words from the "dice influencing" words. I'm just not in the habit of doing so. If that has prevented people from reading me, it's too late now. But I don't get too hung up on the words in this case.

By the way, I may have said this before, but I do think your posts are great.

Frank, if you ever became my client for either marketing or for an infomercial I WOULD FORCE YOU to change "dice control" to "dice influencing." Now that I know what I know, you shot yourself in the foot. And thank you for the compliment. Check out my Infomercials. LOL

PS. It's not too late to change. There are still millions to be made.

Frank




Not sure if this is the place for it, but 3 of your former students want to thank you for all your work and
the attention you paid to building an organizaton that puts the student first. You took old farts like
our team and this weekend alone we had two of us taking over 8 times our buy in off the table, and
the night before a third member cashed in for well over $2000 with a couple of nice 30 plus rolls.

My respect for you has grown even more in the past week that you were on here, your patience
with the questions about dice control after all these years is amazing, i guess that is why your
instructors also have that.

dicesitter

Thank you Dicesitter, you made my day!

Quote: dicesitter

My respect for you has grown even more in the past week that you were on here, your patience
with the questions about dice control after all these years is amazing, i guess that is why your
instructors also have that.

dicesitter

I have been really impressed with the quality and detail
of Frank's posts. I set out to be a detractor, but he easily
won me over. I'm so embarrassed...

Frank, I for one wish you'd get back to posting about
gambling, your field of expertise. Whats with all these
other topics, vomiting, super hero's, abortion, wishing
you weren't born? I don't get it.

I too like to read what Frank posts.
Keep it coming Frank. You do have a lot to offer.

I enjoy writing about non-gambling topics. I just did a new one titled "Phil and the Jewish Professional Woman" over at my web site http://frankscoblete.com/scobes-in-our-time/phil-and-the-jewish-professional-woman/ (I asked permission to reference my web site)

Also, certain topics such as dice control have been hammered to death here. I've had my say. Others have had their say. I've written close to 30 books now on various gambling topics; a bunch of television shows, etc. I just finished one last week that is due at my publisher on November 1st. But I also just finished a non-gambling book as well, "Bless Me Father for I Have Sinned: Confessions of a Wayward Catholic." I think the Catholic book should find a receptive audience. It is a funny (I hope) look at my experiences in the Catholic Church from schooling to adulthood to being a grandfather.

I think the book I love the most is a non-gambling book "The Virgin Kiss." (There are two chapters on gambling experiences; one about being banned in Mississippi.) That book has finished its run and I doubt it will be reprinted. It was a decent seller. I have copies left but it would be hard to get at bookstores.

So I would love for everyone to read my non-gambling work over at my web site in the "Scobe's In Our Time" section and enjoy it, although I realize that I have been typecast by many readers.

I read Virgin Kiss and it is not what you would expect from Frank. Parts of it are very, very funny. Parts of it are very, very scary, and parts of it make you sit up and say "damn't he's right and why do we allow that crap." Being originally from New York I can also identify with a lot of it. And everyone who has ever "dined" at a Vegas buffet will get at least a smile out of one chapter.

Quote: FrankScoblete
" Hi Alan:

I know there is a debate about the words "dice influencing," "dice control," "rhythmic rolling," "rhythm rolling" but I just consider all of them synonyms. I prefer using the term "dice control" because it sounds more powerful than the other three but, again, I just think of these words as synonyms."

Uh, not so fast.

In your earlier writings on this subject, when introducing your readers to "The Arm," IIRC you did not really refer to how she became the Greatest Shooter Ever: it was left to the reader's imagination to posit a cause: she inhabited a world and a time where the fundamentals of dice setting had not yet been discovered (unless you are saying she had figured it all out on her own, mastered it, and nobody realized she was setting the dice: truly flying under the radar).

When "The Captain of Craps" ascended to the pantheon, his mastery had nothing to do with his particular sets, grips and throws, at least not that I recall.

No, it was implied that they were somehow just "born good," or "unconsciously proficient" at rolling dem bones: thus you called then "rhythmic rollers," as they somehow just got into a good rhythm, whatever that means.

But then along came the catechism of "dice setting," and the world changed forever.

Gone was the notion of "rhythmic rollers," so far as I can see: a new crop of heroes was born, folks who through study, effort and coaching could acquire an ability similar to what "The Arm" seems to have had naturally.

My point: "rhythmic rolling" is not synonymous with "dice controlling;" your writings lead me to believe that you are claiming that the first is basically an intuitive ability, the other a learned skill.

Am I wrong in this?

Interesting points Mr. V.

The Arm did set the dice but I really don't know what the set was since her hand basically covered both dice. (I wrote about this in some post in the past and why I never asked her what her set was.) The Captain set the dice in a 3-V. He never used an any-seven set. I think the Arm was a "natural" athough I am guessing she played a lot before she really got the hang of it but that was long before I saw her throw. The Captain definitely did his shot intentionally. He studied the game. He was a great dice controller, yes, but he could not equal the Arm. No one I have ever seen could equal her including the ones around today. (I do have to say, and this is not to be used against me, I have not seen every dice controller there is. For all I know there might be someone as good as the Arm. I wouldn't bet on that but it is still a possibility.)

I think there are natural dice controllers just as there are natural athletes. Still, you can have all the natural ability in the world but you do have to be able to execute it in the game - whatever game that might be - and this does take practice, be that practice in a casino (as the Captain, the Arm, Jimmy P. and I did) or at home.

But again, you do bring up interesting points.

Frank


I also have Virgin Kiss and enjoyed it.


I also have a comment about GTC.

I started reading your books about 6 years ago or so. I started i think in 2007 and 2008 and i used the dewey donts,
and io have to admit i liked it and did ok. I think in 2008 i may have made a tad, at any result i did better in terms
of holding down my loses than i had in any year since i started playing in about 1975.

As i got more into the dice control part i was doing ok i had some good rolls and thought this is not very hard.
Well i found out that was a foolish thought and began to perfect a number of bad habits on the toss.

One of the guys on the web site suggested i can continue to try to be a pioneer and get the arrows in the
back or i can follow those that have done this and take a class.

So when i was 60 i took my first class. Now my back ground is business, i started mine when i was 23 and had
done very well. Over the years i have taken hundreds of classes for my jobs, some at many of the best universities
in the country. I know what a class is, i know the difference between an instructor and a 9-5 clock watcher.

I said all this because the GTC classes were effective, the instructors worked just as hard at 5 pm as they did at
9 AM. They worked well with all students, and this is not easy since we all are different.

All aspects of my experience with GTC was as good as i would have expected.

Having said that, you cant control what students do out side the class, while at the class or back at
home. As the organization grows so do the potential problems, more people always bring more and
different problems.

Now i dont know why you left GTC, i dont care, that is your business, but as to your comment the other
day about you felt good about GTC when you were there, but your gone, now any ties to GTC should
not reflect on you as if for what ever reason it is not as good now. I felt a little funny about that
statement since many of the people that run GTC are your friends and the instructors you selected and
trained and i for one was impressed by them, and i think they are very competent and decent people
and would have no reason to think it will not continue as it has. I sorta wondered why you seemed to
want push it out of sight, out of mind. I think that reflects on them as well as me .

Dicesetter

Sorry, didn't mean it that way. It's just that since I have no control over anything anymore I didn't want to have to defend anything. If GTC is the same now as it was when I was with it? It is a great organization. Sorry, again, for making it sound as if I am ducking and running. I have nothing to duck from and nothing to run from.

I agree

The organization you folks started and built and the people in it are excellent, something to be
proud of.... now what students like me do on the outside, who the hell knows, i am sure that
part can be a pain in the butt.


Dicesetter