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NowTheSerpent
NowTheSerpent
Joined: Sep 30, 2011
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August 17th, 2014 at 1:53:22 AM permalink
One could lower the house edge on the Stupak Pass/Come to a friendlier (albeit still profitably higher than standard) figure in either of two simple ways:

(1) Pay 2:1 to the Pass/Come for Points/Up-Numbers of 2, 3, 11, or 12. (E = -1.81%)
(2) Pay 6:5 for a come-out/first-roll 7. (E = -2.05%)
NowTheSerpent
NowTheSerpent
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August 17th, 2014 at 2:20:45 AM permalink
Quote: 7outlineaway

Most of Northern Nevada has a slightly different layout from everywhere else. There aren't separate areas for DP and DC. Instead, DP/DC is a narrow strip between Field and Come (not between Pass and Field) and doesn't wrap around. Also, on the come-out, the dealer moves your DP behind the number as if it were a DC.

I like this layout... security is probably improved, as you can't grab your losing DP bet when the point is rolled. (I have seen people try to do this, usually on Pass bets.)



DP's/DC's are not contracts like Pass/Come. Once a Point/Box is set, the sub-contract DP/DC bet may legally be reduced or removed and may not legally be increased, policy which is precisely opposite that for contract Pass/Come bets. I don't see why the table would try to prevent taking them down, but I do see them making efforts to prevent DP/DC post-entry increases, since paying even money on short-odds is not in the best interest of their holds.
NowTheSerpent
NowTheSerpent
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August 17th, 2014 at 5:31:30 AM permalink
Quote: Calder

Other than the Big 6 / 8 and the fire bet, are there any regional variations [of the craps layout], or has the corporate casino completely homogenized the game?



Dr. Stuart N. Ethier, a professor of mathematics at the University of Utah, developed his own patented version in response to two problems discovered in Bob Stupak's Crapless Craps, namely (1) a very high 5.38% house edge on the Pass/Come bets and (2) the palpable lack of corresponding "Don'ts", while still offering a guaranteed "crap-proofed" come-out. He patented his solution as No-Crap Craps. It solves both problems by combining two adjacent horn numbers (2 with 3 and 11 with 12) into a single point/box "number" for all multi-roll bets either against the 7 (such as Pass/Come, Place, and Buy), or for the 7 (such as Don'ts and Lays). Rolling either component number counts for the collective point/box. So, for example, coming out with a 2 sets the 2-Or-3 point, and then rolling a 3 before a 7 wins the Pass Line bet. Likewise, rolling either 11 or 12 coming out sets the 11-Or-12 point; then rolling either before 7 wins. Clearly, the probability and hence payout and Odds figures for these new "horn" points will be identical to those for the 4 and the 10 (one could even introduce "Hardways" on 2-Or-3 and 11-Or-12, each of which would win whenever the respective 2 or 12 rolled before the respective 3 or 11 and before 7). The effect of the fusion is a Pass Line/Come bet with the classic (-28)/1980 = 1.414% house edge. The Don't-Pass/Don't-Come generates its advantage, in Dr. Ethier's original formulation, by only paying half for any seven-out on the 11-Or-12 horn point/box, to the familiar (-27)/1980 = -1.364% tune. (The same exact figure can be achieved as easily, by simply declaring the new Don't bet a push as soon as the 11-Or-12 point is established, without introducing nuisance half-pays.) No tables laid out to this version are known to exist, since the provisional patent, I'm told, has been abandoned.
NewToCraps
NewToCraps
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August 17th, 2014 at 6:36:14 AM permalink
Quote: NowTheSerpent


Dr. Stuart N. Ethier, a professor of mathematics at the University of Utah, developed his own patented version in response to two problems discovered in Bob Stupak's Crapless Craps, namely (1) a very high 5.38% house edge on the Pass/Come bets and (2) the palpable lack of corresponding "Don'ts", while still offering a guaranteed "crap-proofed" come-out. He patented his solution as No-Crap Craps....
No tables laid out to this version are known to exist, since the provisional patent, I'm told, has been abandoned.



His patent is # 7,134,660 and was originally filed on August 30, 2004. The date of the patent is November 14, 2006.

The abstract from the patent:


Crapless Craps, a game that has existed for more than 20 years, is a modification of standard craps designed to eliminate the possibility of the pass line bettor losing on the come-out roll. However, it has several serious drawbacks that have prevented it from achieving significant popularity with the gambling public. No-Crap Craps is a modification of Crapless Craps created to overcome these shortcomings. This aim is achieved by regarding every number except 7 as a point number, but with numbers 2 and 3 grouped together as 2-or-3, and numbers 11 and 12 grouped together as 11-or-12. When betting against the shooter, a seven-out after point 11-or-12 pays half. The result is that the house advantages of the pass line bet and the don't pass bet are exactly those of standard craps.

The claims from the patent:

1. A method of playing a craps-like dice game comprising:
    (a) a bettor making a pass line bet;
    (b) a shooter rolling a pair of dice repeatedly;
    (c) declaring that 7 on the initial, or come-out, roll results in a win for said bettor;
    (d) declaring that any other number on said come-out roll establishes a point of said shooter, with the provision that numbers 2 and 3 are grouped together as 2-or-3, and numbers 11 and 12 are grouped together as 11-or-12;
    (e) declaring that, following the establishment of said point, repeating said point before 7 is rolled results in a win for said bettor, whereas rolling 7 before said point is repeated results in a loss for said bettor;
    (f) declaring that said pass line bet pays even money;
    whereby said pass line bet cannot be lost on said come-out roll and offers the same advantage to the house as does the pass line bet in standard craps.

2. A method of playing a craps-like dice game comprising:
    (a) a bettor making a don't pass bet;
    (b) a shooter rolling a pair of dice repeatedly;
    (c) declaring that 7 on the initial, or come-out, roll results in a loss for said bettor;
    (d) declaring that any other number on said come-out roll establishes a point of said shooter, with the provision that numbers 2 and 3 are grouped together as 2-or-3, and numbers 11 and 12 are grouped together as 11-or-12;
    (e) declaring that, following the establishment of said point, rolling 7 before said point is repeated results in a win for said bettor, whereas repeating said point before 7 is roiled results in a loss for said bettor;
    (f) declaring tat said don't pass bet pays even money, with one exception, namely, if said don't pass bet is won following the establishment of point 11-or-12, it pays 1 to 2;
    whereby said don't pass bet allows said bettor to bet against said shooter and offers the same advantage to the house as does the don't pass bet in standard craps.
Learned Craps in 2013 .... Developed and have a PATENT on Craps "Back On Bet" side bet ... Working on Craps game variations hope to have patents in 2018 - Second Chance Craps and Sub-Crap-tion ... A completely new dice game idea is next - D.. Dice D......
DJTeddyBear
DJTeddyBear
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Thanks for this post from:
pwcrabb
April 20th, 2020 at 7:28:26 AM permalink
Sorry for dredging up an old thread, but...

I was surfing the net and found some info regarding this layout, and remembered it was discussed here.

Quote: Museum of Gaming History

Beautiful reproduction of a 1 man "Philadelphia Style" craps layout from the 1930s. Note all the text are on applied oil cloth with just the lines painted onto the background cloth.


http://museumofgaminghistory.com/mogh.php?p=gallery&d=Gallery/Antique%20Equipment/Craps/&i=30
I invented a few casino games. Info: http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ 覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧 Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
CasinoResearch
CasinoResearch
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April 20th, 2020 at 11:00:51 AM permalink
Very cool! Thanks for posting this.
Calder
Calder
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April 20th, 2020 at 12:48:50 PM permalink
No Field 4!
ChumpChange
ChumpChange
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April 20th, 2020 at 1:56:25 PM permalink
I was playing Baccarat on the computer last night and betting only Tie. This after getting 5 Ties in a row and 2 in the next 5 hands without giving Ties a thought. Well, once I started betting on Ties they became so damn scarce. 30 hands with no Tie, 40 hands with no Tie, 60 hands with no Tie, etc. It's like Tie was on quarantine or something!
I could use my new same bet chart on the Hard 6 or Hard 8, but can you imagine going hours without hitting, over and over again?

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