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Calder
Calder
Joined: Mar 26, 2010
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March 14th, 2013 at 11:04:46 AM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

You have to credit the inventors of craps. They produced
an ironclad layout...



Bob mentioned this in passing in Ahigh's thread, and I wondered about the history of the craps layout. I've only been playing for about five or six years, and in no more than 7 different casinos.

When did the layout take its current form? Other than the Big 6 / 8 and the fire bet, are there any regional variations, or has the corporate casino completely homogenized the game?
FleaStiff
FleaStiff
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March 14th, 2013 at 11:23:43 AM permalink
Reno: Its Bar the 2 on the Don'ts.

New Orleans: Field can be The Bayou.

New Jersey: No Big Six or Big 8 by law.

Terribles: Don't Come Box has been shaved of its text to deter use.

The game in a casino is Bank Craps... so the layout is markedly different from the floating craps games and back alley craps games of long ago and old time movies. Corporate manufacturers probably do control the market but they are happy to provide "extras" to casinos: Logo, an additional Field hit, Text of No Call Bets, ... these probably vary a great deal geographically. Some places now are pushing a marked layout for the BoxMan's Hop Bets rather than just the blank felt in front of the Box Man as is often the place for a Hop Bet.
Harley
Harley
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March 14th, 2013 at 10:23:57 PM permalink
Quote: FleaStiff

New Jersey: No Big Six or Big 8 by law.



Fleastiff is correct and if you watched "Person of Interest" on CBS tonight, in minute 33 you will see them playing craps in Atlantic City on a layout that includes a Big 6 and Big 8 ... a Hollywood technical flaw that I can almost guarantee no one in the universe saw except me ... but that is what i do

... it's a gift and a curse {wink}
.... that is simply my opinion .... Ciao, Harley ... Link = http://crapsadvantageplayers.blogspot.com/
7outlineaway
7outlineaway
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March 15th, 2013 at 9:24:42 PM permalink
Most of Northern Nevada has a slightly different layout from everywhere else. There aren't separate areas for DP and DC. Instead, DP/DC is a narrow strip between Field and Come (not between Pass and Field) and doesn't wrap around. Also, on the come-out, the dealer moves your DP behind the number as if it were a DC.

I like this layout. Tracking you bets is easier when you have multiple Dont's, and security is probably improved, as you can't grab your losing DP bet when the point is rolled. (I have seen people try to do this, usually on Pass bets.)
Calder
Calder
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March 15th, 2013 at 9:53:36 PM permalink
I didn't see any of those in a quick look through some Google images. Otherwise, things seem pretty standardized.

The only variations I found were sold on icollector site a few years ago:



Is that a tub layout? I've never played on one.



The site says the bottom one was by "Arthur Popper, NY, c1930s"
7outlineaway
7outlineaway
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March 15th, 2013 at 10:21:43 PM permalink
Here's the Reno/Tahoe layout.

Harley
Harley
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March 16th, 2013 at 10:19:02 AM permalink
Crapless Craps .....



Quote:

Crapless Craps
from The Wizard of Odds

This following information graciously provided by the Wizard of Odds, the most recognized authority on casino gaming and table odds on the Net. The Wizard is a member of the Casino.com Hall of Fame, an adjunct professor of gaming math at The University of Nevada, Las Vegas, and makes his living consulting for land and Internet casinos and casino game developers.

Crapless Craps
by the Wizard of Odds

In my ten commandments of gambling I advise that you avoid gimmicks and this is an illustrated example. The Stratosphere Casino in Vegas and some casinos in Mississippi proudly boast of "crapless craps," a craps variant in which the player can not lose a pass bet on the come out roll. If any number other than a 7 is rolled on the come out roll it becomes the point. What you are giving up is the sure winner of 11 on the come out roll. To the mathematically challenged it may seem a good deal, that you are only giving up 1 sure winner for 3 sure losers. The catch is that the probability of hitting a point of 2 or 12 is only 1/7, and the probability of hitting a point of 3 or 11 is only 1/4. So the player is not gaining much on the 2, 3, and 12 since they will likely lose anyway, but is giving up a sure winner on 11 for only a 1/4 chance of winning. Overall the house edge on the pass bet in crapless craps is 373/6930 =~ 5.382%, compared to 1.41% in a real craps game.

Crapless craps does offer free odds of 6:1 on the 2 and 12, and 3:1 on the 3 and 11. The following table shows the combined house edge by combining the pass line and the odds:

Combined house edge on
pass and buying odds
in crapless craps

1X odds 2.936%
2X odds 2.018%
3X odds 1.538%
5X odds 1.042%

You can also make place bets on the 2, 3, 11, and 12. The 2 and 12 pay 11:2 with a house edge of 7.143%. The 3 and 11 pay 11:4 with a house edge of 6.250%. There is no don't pass bet in this game.


http://www.nextshooter.com/crapless
.... that is simply my opinion .... Ciao, Harley ... Link = http://crapsadvantageplayers.blogspot.com/
Paigowdan
Paigowdan
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March 16th, 2013 at 1:13:44 PM permalink
The game was codified to its modern format by a man named John H. Winn just before the first world war. more information is in John Scarne's book The Complete Guide to Gambling, and at http://homepage.ntlworld.com/dice-play/CrapsHazardHistory.htm
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
NowTheSerpent
NowTheSerpent
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August 17th, 2014 at 1:26:31 AM permalink
Quote: Calder

Other than the Big 6 / 8 and the fire bet, are there any regional variations, or has the corporate casino completely homogenized the game?



Early "speak easy" craps tables often featured a 5 instead of the 9 at center of the Field. Anyone familiar with the Table of Thirty-Six Ways will see that this changes the odds not in the least, but maybe the change to 9 had the psychological effect of making the coverage appear "greater"?
NowTheSerpent
NowTheSerpent
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August 17th, 2014 at 1:43:08 AM permalink


This layout makes the Hi-Lo "Double Pays" on the Field unnecessary.



The first "Bar 3" table I've ever seen. I thought these were only legendary.

Assuming 2 and 12 don't count for the Doubles bet, the house edge E is 11.11% (apparently the usage of "for" in these layouts is faulty and should be replaced by "to".

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