influence vs control
March 11th, 2013 at 8:58:00 AM
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With a number of people on this board that beleive you can beat the table by betting differently or just
refuse to believe you can win consistantly I understand this is a complete waste of my time.
But since i am now retired i have time to waste.
To try to point out two things
1... people can influence the dice
2... you can prove this easily.
I just walked over to my table... i did not practice i just picked you dice ( and my first ten rolls look like that)
i was going to throw 4 sets of ten rolls, first with hardway set of 5/4 and the other with the 3-v set which is
what i play with.
first 10.... 4-2 1-2 6-6 5-4 6-1 1-2 5-4 3-3 6-2 1-2.....hardway
2nd 1-5 1-5 3-6 4-6 3-6 3-2 2-2 5-5 3-3 4-6 3-v
3rd 5-3 6-6 2-1 4-4 4-3 6-1 2-4 5-3 5-5 3-5 hardway
4th 3-1 4-3 4-5 5-5 3-3 1-5 5-6 1-6 3-6 1-5 3-v
If you look you notice differences between the numbers that repeat in the hard way set and in the 3-v set.
In the 3-v set you get repeating 1-5 3-6 3-3 and you can get -3-1 these are good axis numbers
in the hard way set you will get 5/4 4/5 3/5 5/3 4/2 etc and the hardways..
the point is that is is repeatable. over and over....
I could do this all day and the results would show influence and a difference between sets.
dicesitter
refuse to believe you can win consistantly I understand this is a complete waste of my time.
But since i am now retired i have time to waste.
To try to point out two things
1... people can influence the dice
2... you can prove this easily.
I just walked over to my table... i did not practice i just picked you dice ( and my first ten rolls look like that)
i was going to throw 4 sets of ten rolls, first with hardway set of 5/4 and the other with the 3-v set which is
what i play with.
first 10.... 4-2 1-2 6-6 5-4 6-1 1-2 5-4 3-3 6-2 1-2.....hardway
2nd 1-5 1-5 3-6 4-6 3-6 3-2 2-2 5-5 3-3 4-6 3-v
3rd 5-3 6-6 2-1 4-4 4-3 6-1 2-4 5-3 5-5 3-5 hardway
4th 3-1 4-3 4-5 5-5 3-3 1-5 5-6 1-6 3-6 1-5 3-v
If you look you notice differences between the numbers that repeat in the hard way set and in the 3-v set.
In the 3-v set you get repeating 1-5 3-6 3-3 and you can get -3-1 these are good axis numbers
in the hard way set you will get 5/4 4/5 3/5 5/3 4/2 etc and the hardways..
the point is that is is repeatable. over and over....
I could do this all day and the results would show influence and a difference between sets.
dicesitter
March 11th, 2013 at 9:00:04 AM
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Quote: dicesitterWith a number of people on this board that beleive you can beat the table by betting differently or just
refuse to believe you can win consistantly I understand this is a complete waste of my time.
But since i am now retired i have time to waste.
To try to point out two things
1... people can influence the dice
2... you can prove this easily.
I just walked over to my table... i did not practice i just picked up the dice ( and my first ten rolls look like that)
i was going to throw 4 sets of ten rolls, first with hardway set of 5/4 and the other with the 3-v set which is
what i play with.
first 10.... 4-2 1-2 6-6 5-4 6-1 1-2 5-4 3-3 6-2 1-2.....hardway
2nd 1-5 1-5 3-6 4-6 3-6 3-2 2-2 5-5 3-3 4-6 3-v
3rd 5-3 6-6 2-1 4-4 4-3 6-1 2-4 5-3 5-5 3-5 hardway
4th 3-1 4-3 4-5 5-5 3-3 1-5 5-6 1-6 3-6 1-5 3-v
If you look you notice differences between the numbers that repeat in the hard way set and in the 3-v set.
In the 3-v set you get repeating 1-5 3-6 3-3 and you can get -3-1 these are good axis numbers
in the hard way set you will get 5/4 4/5 3/5 5/3 4/2 etc and the hardways..
the point is that is is repeatable. over and over....
I could do this all day and the results would show influence and a difference between sets.
dicesitter
March 11th, 2013 at 7:25:50 PM
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Quote: dicesitterBut since i am now retired i have time to waste.
dicesitter
And ours too!
When a rock is thrown into a pack of dogs, the one that yells the loudest is the one who got hit.
March 12th, 2013 at 6:34:53 AM
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by the way....for all you anti dice sitters........ if all throws were completely random...... it would not make any difference
in terms of the dice set you used. There would be no difference in terms of what the results would be.
Ahigh wanted proof...here it is.
dicesitter
in terms of the dice set you used. There would be no difference in terms of what the results would be.
Ahigh wanted proof...here it is.
dicesitter
March 12th, 2013 at 6:37:42 AM
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I am not an anti dice setter. I am an anti dicesitter. He needs to find a dice setter forum, there are many, and happily tell his tales of brave feats.
When a rock is thrown into a pack of dogs, the one that yells the loudest is the one who got hit.
March 12th, 2013 at 6:57:15 AM
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I am not anti-dice setter either. I personally don't typically play craps, but throwing dice, just like with any maneuver an athlete routinely makes I can see there being some muscle memory take over, but it's not as simple as say a basketball player developing muscle memory from the free throw line. Since there are different spots to throw the dice from and I am sure every dice setter out there has a favorite spot if you will to throw from, but you typically can't control that. So it would be more like a basketball player mastering the free throw, the three pointer from the baseline, the three pointer from the angle, the three pointer straight on and jump shots from inside the arc from the baseline at an angle and dead on. Every basketball player has their favorite spot on the floor, a sweet spot if you will, whereas it is nearly impossible to master shooting from every spot on the floor, I would assume it is nearly impossible to manage dice control from every spot you could throw from on a craps table, not to mention that some craps table have different dimensions than other craps tables.
A flute with no holes is not a flute, a donut with no holes is a danish
March 12th, 2013 at 8:25:29 AM
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Quote: dicesitterby the way....for all you anti dice sitters........ if all throws were completely random...... it would not make any difference
in terms of the dice set you used. There would be no difference in terms of what the results would be.
Ahigh wanted proof...here it is.
dicesitter
Why didn't I realize this already? SLAPS FOREHEAD!
GENIUS!!!
aahigh.com
March 12th, 2013 at 8:39:11 AM
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" I could do this all day and the results would show influence and a difference between sets. "
So take your pension check to the casino and report back when you have won $1,000,000 or more. Thank you !
So take your pension check to the casino and report back when you have won $1,000,000 or more. Thank you !
Shed not for her
the bitter tear
Nor give the heart
to vain regret
Tis but the casket
that lies here,
The gem that filled it
Sparkles yet
March 12th, 2013 at 10:43:34 AM
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gabes22
You are exactly correct...... thats why for most dicesitters, you have to have one position at the table because that
is what you have practiced. and you have to understand changes that need to be made to your throw if you
are on a longer table...... or a table with more bounce, some tables are either to long or to bouncy to get any advantage over..
That does not mean you cant play on them, that just means you have no advantage on them.
Dicesitter
You are exactly correct...... thats why for most dicesitters, you have to have one position at the table because that
is what you have practiced. and you have to understand changes that need to be made to your throw if you
are on a longer table...... or a table with more bounce, some tables are either to long or to bouncy to get any advantage over..
That does not mean you cant play on them, that just means you have no advantage on them.
Dicesitter
March 12th, 2013 at 11:59:58 AM
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" That does not mean you cant play on them, that just means you have no advantage on them."
Or any other crap table.
Or any other crap table.
Shed not for her
the bitter tear
Nor give the heart
to vain regret
Tis but the casket
that lies here,
The gem that filled it
Sparkles yet
March 12th, 2013 at 1:14:45 PM
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Quote: Gabes22I am not anti-dice setter either. I personally don't typically play craps, but throwing dice, just like with any maneuver an athlete routinely makes I can see there being some muscle memory take over, but it's not as simple as say a basketball player developing muscle memory from the free throw line. Since there are different spots to throw the dice from and I am sure every dice setter out there has a favorite spot if you will to throw from, but you typically can't control that. So it would be more like a basketball player mastering the free throw, the three pointer from the baseline, the three pointer from the angle, the three pointer straight on and jump shots from inside the arc from the baseline at an angle and dead on. Every basketball player has their favorite spot on the floor, a sweet spot if you will, whereas it is nearly impossible to master shooting from every spot on the floor, I would assume it is nearly impossible to manage dice control from every spot you could throw from on a craps table, not to mention that some craps table have different dimensions than other craps tables.
Good analogy... But I played basketball, and there is not a pyramid shaped backboard that you are required to hit... It's definitely not the same at all..Ray Allen would look like Shaq on the dice..
How many free throws would ray allen hit if he had to bounce the ball off the floor, hit the backboard, and still put it through the hoop every time?
If influence was TRULY possible, there would be one set w/ a throwing motion that would allow you to NEVER hit a seven... Or at least the bare minimum amount of sevens.. But there is not...After you do your little ritual of setting, kick your leg up, lean forward, and whatever other nonsense, upon releasing them, immediately you have zero control and influence over the dice... You are not swaying the dice to throw any more combinations or any less.. The distribution over time will be the same..
Most people who believe in dice influencing are merely fixated on certain "instances" of the random activity.. They'll shoot poorly the entire night and then have one 20+ roll and call it influencing. Were you not influencing all those other rolls prior to it?.
You could stand 3 feet away from the back wall and still have same amount of influence as you do now... Zero... Don't believe me, find a table and try... Same rules.. One bounce off table and back wall..
The moment you guys kicked the obsession of influencing the dice, will be the moment you will become a better craps player... I honestly have never played with any of you, but I could almost guarantee that you make the exact same bets almost every time you roll.. For example, one person might only place a 6 & 8 (because he believes this is his bias) and will roll ten 5s in a row before he THINKS about putting one down..
I respect all those people who put in the effort to try to generate evidence.. But it comes down to this..
A chemistry term that fits the element of the "DI" perfectly is called a spectator ion.. You can put it in the equation, but it has no effect..
A bad DI looks like a bad shooter
A bad random looks like a bad shooter
A good DI looks like a good shooter
A good random looks like a good shooter
There are only GOOD and BAD shooters.. All that other stuff doesn't matter
"I'm a DO'er and you my friend, are a Don'ter"
-Mark Walberg
pain and Gain
March 12th, 2013 at 1:33:44 PM
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" The distribution over time will be the same.. "
All dice setting threads reduced to just 8 words. Well done, SIR !
All dice setting threads reduced to just 8 words. Well done, SIR !
Shed not for her
the bitter tear
Nor give the heart
to vain regret
Tis but the casket
that lies here,
The gem that filled it
Sparkles yet
March 12th, 2013 at 2:01:03 PM
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Dice Setting = Voodoo = making woman pregnant every time with certain sex of the child.
March 12th, 2013 at 2:06:35 PM
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The easiest way to get an advantage on a craps table is to go to some break in joint, and say "everything down" after you have a few come bets travel.
If they give you the come bets, advantage obtained!
If they give you the come bets, advantage obtained!
aahigh.com
March 12th, 2013 at 2:55:55 PM
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dicesitter cannot do what he says he can do. I'm willing to bet on it. We have Ahigh's craps palace in town, and he always seems willing to let someone roll them bones after making a ridiculous claim, like dicesitter has made. Nickolay was man enough to make a claim, lay some odds with real money on the line, then attempt to back up his claims. Dicesitter does not appear willing to subject himself to that scrutiny risking real money..... what a surprise! If I have misread you, dicesitter, make a claim as to how much 'influence' you have on the dice, and then I'll bet you don't. Rules.... you must toss dice in the air, hit the felt and the back wall with each die, standing in a spot that would be allowed in any Vegas casino. Put up ot shut up..... ( actually, most 'DI's, do neither!)
March 12th, 2013 at 4:09:21 PM
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Waiting to see if I can get in on this action.
But I do not think there will be any. SIGH !
But I do not think there will be any. SIGH !
Shed not for her
the bitter tear
Nor give the heart
to vain regret
Tis but the casket
that lies here,
The gem that filled it
Sparkles yet
March 12th, 2013 at 4:29:30 PM
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It's kind of my point there TheWolf713. That mastering something simple as a free throw is hard enough. Even the most proficient professional basketball players can only hit free throws 90% of the time during game conditions and everything is the same. Same height of the rim, same dimensions of the backboard, same distance from hoop, same size ball and that is hard enough to master. Dice Control, I believe is tougher, but IF, and that is a big IF, someone could do it, I do not think it is possible to master it from everywhere you would be able to shoot from on a craps table and on every size craps table available in a casino. I think there is a possibility, a remote one at that, for a dice setter to have his sweet spot at a particular table size but he would be nowhere near as proficient as a basketball player shooting free throws and I didn't mean to imply that.
A flute with no holes is not a flute, a donut with no holes is a danish
March 12th, 2013 at 4:32:17 PM
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" shooting free throws " That's what SOOPOO is talking about. Easy to shoot for free and make exaggerated claims.
But when the money is on the line, SILENCE ! ! !
But when the money is on the line, SILENCE ! ! !
Shed not for her
the bitter tear
Nor give the heart
to vain regret
Tis but the casket
that lies here,
The gem that filled it
Sparkles yet
March 12th, 2013 at 4:41:10 PM
permalink
There is absolutely a difference between being able to perform under pressure and not.
I am sure Nickolay was feeling the pressure yesterday!
Half of my battle in playing craps is not feeling pressured with big bets. But I am practicing keeping my cool when I have big money on bets.
Yesterday I had $110 travel to the 5, and I managed to get it to come back.
Today, I lost $200 on other shooters before I got the dice the first time, and I won all $200 back on my roll.
But when I put bigger money on my own rolls, it is absolutely tougher to perform.
I expect everyone has the same difficulties. But managing the pressure of real skin in any game is TOUGH!
For the record, the most money I have ever won on a single toss of the dice is less than $1,000. And I think that was after losing $550 from $700 at the Cosmo, I hit a hard 8 for $70 to get it all back.
My game typically only does bigger bets to chase since I generally don't try to come out a bunch of money ahead.
I am sure Nickolay was feeling the pressure yesterday!
Half of my battle in playing craps is not feeling pressured with big bets. But I am practicing keeping my cool when I have big money on bets.
Yesterday I had $110 travel to the 5, and I managed to get it to come back.
Today, I lost $200 on other shooters before I got the dice the first time, and I won all $200 back on my roll.
But when I put bigger money on my own rolls, it is absolutely tougher to perform.
I expect everyone has the same difficulties. But managing the pressure of real skin in any game is TOUGH!
For the record, the most money I have ever won on a single toss of the dice is less than $1,000. And I think that was after losing $550 from $700 at the Cosmo, I hit a hard 8 for $70 to get it all back.
My game typically only does bigger bets to chase since I generally don't try to come out a bunch of money ahead.
aahigh.com
March 12th, 2013 at 5:10:27 PM
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I LOVE PRESSURE. ABSOLUTELY LOVE IT.
Always played my best under pressure. Like $10 8 ball in strange bar with $3 in my pocket LOL
Seriously. most good players have trouble with the stiffs. You see the same thing sometimes in pro sports.
Clearly inferior team hangs around then gets lucky at the end.
Best team stands there saying WTF, how did that happen.
Always played my best under pressure. Like $10 8 ball in strange bar with $3 in my pocket LOL
Seriously. most good players have trouble with the stiffs. You see the same thing sometimes in pro sports.
Clearly inferior team hangs around then gets lucky at the end.
Best team stands there saying WTF, how did that happen.
Shed not for her
the bitter tear
Nor give the heart
to vain regret
Tis but the casket
that lies here,
The gem that filled it
Sparkles yet
March 12th, 2013 at 9:33:19 PM
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soopoo i did put up and gave you my practice throws.... 40 of them that showed influence clearly.
i will give you 40 more in a few minutes and i bet they will show the same influence
dicesitter
i will give you 40 more in a few minutes and i bet they will show the same influence
dicesitter
March 12th, 2013 at 9:34:42 PM
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Yeah 40 defines a valid long trail. Not 39, No way , But 40 HELL YES !
Shed not for her
the bitter tear
Nor give the heart
to vain regret
Tis but the casket
that lies here,
The gem that filled it
Sparkles yet
March 12th, 2013 at 10:04:51 PM
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hardway 5-4 5-4 2-6 6-5 2-3 1-5 1-5 6-6 5-3 2-4
3 v 1-2 6-2 3-6 4-4 2-3 5-3 5-3 6-1 4-6 2-6
hardway 4-5 2-2 1-5 6-6 1-5 2-5 5-3 5-6 1-2 4-2
3 v 1-3 6-4 5-4 4-5 3-5 2-3 2-4 5-4 6-6 4-1
this was surely not the most definitive example of the difference between the 3-v and hardways.
however it was a decent effort with 60% on axis,, 40% 6 & 8 and only 2 7's in the 40 rolls.
you always want proof these are my actual throws, for good or bad. Between this and the last
that is my latest 80 rolls of practice.
dicesitter
3 v 1-2 6-2 3-6 4-4 2-3 5-3 5-3 6-1 4-6 2-6
hardway 4-5 2-2 1-5 6-6 1-5 2-5 5-3 5-6 1-2 4-2
3 v 1-3 6-4 5-4 4-5 3-5 2-3 2-4 5-4 6-6 4-1
this was surely not the most definitive example of the difference between the 3-v and hardways.
however it was a decent effort with 60% on axis,, 40% 6 & 8 and only 2 7's in the 40 rolls.
you always want proof these are my actual throws, for good or bad. Between this and the last
that is my latest 80 rolls of practice.
dicesitter
March 12th, 2013 at 10:08:02 PM
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Quote: Buzzard" The distribution over time will be the same.. "
All dice setting threads reduced to just 8 words. Well done, SIR !
Worth repeating.
Shed not for her
the bitter tear
Nor give the heart
to vain regret
Tis but the casket
that lies here,
The gem that filled it
Sparkles yet
March 13th, 2013 at 8:37:30 AM
permalink
this mornings practice
hardways..... 3-3 5-1 4-3 5-3 5-2 1-4 1-4 6-2 5-6 1-1
3v .2-1 2-4 4-1 5-5 5-1 4-6 3-6 2-6 5-5 2-6
hardways . 3-5 5-4 1-1 5-3 3-1 4-5 5-2 4-4 2-1 3-5
3 v . 1-1 5-1 6-1 4-4 4-1 5-2 5-3 3-2 4-1 3-1
62.5 % on axis
35% 6 & 8
srr 8
dicesitter
hardways..... 3-3 5-1 4-3 5-3 5-2 1-4 1-4 6-2 5-6 1-1
3v .2-1 2-4 4-1 5-5 5-1 4-6 3-6 2-6 5-5 2-6
hardways . 3-5 5-4 1-1 5-3 3-1 4-5 5-2 4-4 2-1 3-5
3 v . 1-1 5-1 6-1 4-4 4-1 5-2 5-3 3-2 4-1 3-1
62.5 % on axis
35% 6 & 8
srr 8
dicesitter
March 13th, 2013 at 9:34:18 AM
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Nice job sharing data. I will tell you that when you start looking at your own data it is very educational.
The most difficult part is dealing with the bad data along with the good data and keeping yourself honest.
Keep up the good work.
The most difficult part is dealing with the bad data along with the good data and keeping yourself honest.
Keep up the good work.
aahigh.com
March 13th, 2013 at 4:37:07 PM
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there is no bad data or good data, there is just data... when ever you pick up the dice you will throw differently, particularly
at my age when your hands hurt or feel differently each day.
But data is important i have to maintain over 30% 6 & 8 and have as close to 60% axis control to win,
that does not mean win everytime, but over time. The last 30 days i have played more than normal and my
craps account has grown by $3800.
that is the point of reinvesting because when ever your craps money grows, it means you can have a larger
starting bet on the 6 & 8. Little by little you can become a larger better as your funds grow.
But you need to be honest about your data... i fyou bet more and have no edge, you will lose.... period.
dicesitter
at my age when your hands hurt or feel differently each day.
But data is important i have to maintain over 30% 6 & 8 and have as close to 60% axis control to win,
that does not mean win everytime, but over time. The last 30 days i have played more than normal and my
craps account has grown by $3800.
that is the point of reinvesting because when ever your craps money grows, it means you can have a larger
starting bet on the 6 & 8. Little by little you can become a larger better as your funds grow.
But you need to be honest about your data... i fyou bet more and have no edge, you will lose.... period.
dicesitter
March 13th, 2013 at 4:57:51 PM
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Dicesitter, Ahigh hits it on the nailhead here. Like him or not he does show all his rolls (at least I believe he does). Not so sure I can make the same statement about you(yet).Quote: AhighNice job sharing data. I will tell you that when you start looking at your own data it is very educational.
The most difficult part is dealing with the bad data along with the good data and keeping yourself honest.
Keep up the good work.
March 13th, 2013 at 6:38:54 PM
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That is a statement that could only come from a a jerkoff of the highest order. I have never seen a website with so many
people like you... Are you all drinking the same water, or share the same ancestors....
What possible good would it serve for anyone to come on here and pretend to be anything or do
anything.....
this is a craps site, and to have any value at all, any...... it should be dedicated to each of being
able to get better at this game... have a better chance against the casino.
Does everyone on here have to take you like a child and say sit down this is roll number one....did you see that
are you sure now that i really did that.
Hey i dont need this, i am trying to show there is way to win more often, you dont want that , go back to your
childish games....
Ahigh can get his kicks from some ones else rolls, you dont have the guts to work with someone that is actually
honest.
My honesty is beyond reproach...screw you
dicesitter
people like you... Are you all drinking the same water, or share the same ancestors....
What possible good would it serve for anyone to come on here and pretend to be anything or do
anything.....
this is a craps site, and to have any value at all, any...... it should be dedicated to each of being
able to get better at this game... have a better chance against the casino.
Does everyone on here have to take you like a child and say sit down this is roll number one....did you see that
are you sure now that i really did that.
Hey i dont need this, i am trying to show there is way to win more often, you dont want that , go back to your
childish games....
Ahigh can get his kicks from some ones else rolls, you dont have the guts to work with someone that is actually
honest.
My honesty is beyond reproach...screw you
dicesitter
March 13th, 2013 at 6:50:31 PM
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Quote: dicesitterThat is a statement that could only come from a a jerkoff of the highest order...screw you
Seven-day suspension.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
March 13th, 2013 at 6:56:21 PM
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Quote: WizardSeven-day suspension.
Way to go Wiz!!!!
March 13th, 2013 at 8:09:26 PM
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I believe dice influencing is possible. I even believe dice control is possible. Physics tells us it is possible to set and throw dice a certain way, to have them fly and bounce and roll a certain way, and that will have them come to rest a certain way.
Yes, it's possible.
I just have never seen anyone do it.
I was in Vegas over the weeekend and thanks to a $20K royal (my second in three days, I hit one at Rincon Thursday night), I violated my oath to just play the firebet with only a pssline bet.
I lost a bundle. About 7-thousand in fact. But if I looked ONLY at my final play Sunday evening I could present evidence that would put all of the other dice controller claimants to shame.
I was at a $10 table at Caesars. The point was six, and I bet $52 across. I went on a tear. I can remember the first five rolls after establishing the 6 but that's all. The first five rolls were: 4-4, 5-5, 5-5, 2-2, 2-2. No one was on the hardways. My hand continued. Over the next 45 minutes I had pressed up all the numbers to $75 or more on each, plus I put $700 in my rail... and I never made the point of 6. I sevened out with the shift change when all three dealers were replaced.
Was I controlling the dice? To be honest, no. Was I influencing the dice? Yes, I threw them using my cross-6s set hitting the center back wall on one bounce.
Was my set and toss responsible for a great run? Maybe, but I still lost about $7K playing craps over the weekend.
My point is this: you can't pick and choose great hands or great throws and use that as evidence of anything. The only proof is in the bottom line. If a random shooter wins but a dice setter/influencer/controller doesn't then give me the random shooter every time.
By the way, never hit one fire bet -- not even four numbers -- all weekend.
Yes, it's possible.
I just have never seen anyone do it.
I was in Vegas over the weeekend and thanks to a $20K royal (my second in three days, I hit one at Rincon Thursday night), I violated my oath to just play the firebet with only a pssline bet.
I lost a bundle. About 7-thousand in fact. But if I looked ONLY at my final play Sunday evening I could present evidence that would put all of the other dice controller claimants to shame.
I was at a $10 table at Caesars. The point was six, and I bet $52 across. I went on a tear. I can remember the first five rolls after establishing the 6 but that's all. The first five rolls were: 4-4, 5-5, 5-5, 2-2, 2-2. No one was on the hardways. My hand continued. Over the next 45 minutes I had pressed up all the numbers to $75 or more on each, plus I put $700 in my rail... and I never made the point of 6. I sevened out with the shift change when all three dealers were replaced.
Was I controlling the dice? To be honest, no. Was I influencing the dice? Yes, I threw them using my cross-6s set hitting the center back wall on one bounce.
Was my set and toss responsible for a great run? Maybe, but I still lost about $7K playing craps over the weekend.
My point is this: you can't pick and choose great hands or great throws and use that as evidence of anything. The only proof is in the bottom line. If a random shooter wins but a dice setter/influencer/controller doesn't then give me the random shooter every time.
By the way, never hit one fire bet -- not even four numbers -- all weekend.
March 13th, 2013 at 8:34:10 PM
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Harley has me convinced casinos are using randomly biased dice to counter all the people who may be able to influence them. When you consider his meeting with regulators who explained to him it would not matter if the dice were biased as long as nobody knows how, this makes sense. Someone controlling dice will randomly be thwarted because they practice with unbiased dice and would not be able to tell how they are affecting the throw. It doesn't sound fair to misrepresent the dice, but maybe they consider they are not representing the dice to be anything at all, but what appear to be dice. My theory would not make sense at all if the dice could not be biased in subtle ways. This also assumes the dice are not checked for balance or the checking is useless.
I am a robot.
March 13th, 2013 at 10:03:04 PM
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Quote: onenickelmiracleHarley has me convinced casinos are using randomly biased dice to counter all the people who may be able to influence them. When you consider his meeting with regulators who explained to him it would not matter if the dice were biased as long as nobody knows how, this makes sense. Someone controlling dice will randomly be thwarted because they practice with unbiased dice and would not be able to tell how they are affecting the throw. It doesn't sound fair to misrepresent the dice, but maybe they consider they are not representing the dice to be anything at all, but what appear to be dice. My theory would not make sense at all if the dice could not be biased in subtle ways. This also assumes the dice are not checked for balance or the checking is useless.
Don't take anybody's word for anything. I recommend that if you start seeing more 6-1 seven outs, or what seems like too many hi's and lo's, start profiling AFTER you notice a hi or a lo or something suspicious -- be fair and don't record the first roll as a hi or a lo or a six-one seven out. Decide to record, and then the first roll should be after your decision. Don't decide to record because of what you saw.
Pick a count ahead of time of where you want to stop and stop when you get to that count (not when you get to a desired distribution).
Then observe what you have.
IE: you can record when things seem out of whack, but don't cheat yourself into thinking something that's not true by starting and stopping at convenient times to support what you want to find.
I would expect and you should expect to that they will often come out to be what looks like fair after you count 100 or more of each faces. But if you stick with it for 200 or more of each face (600 rolls worth), you can maybe have a better idea than me about the possibility.
Also, you can count the resolved die if one goes off the table. (I did) more samples is good, and it's just the faces you are interested in.
Also, if there is a controlled shooter, decide before hand if you want to omit the controlled shooters throws. Fast and furious random shooters are the best type for profiling potentially biased dice.
I would love to hear back from someone who has the stamina to record 800 rolls (8 solid hours of recording). I get tired at around 4 hours myself and I usually want to play and I don't like to play and count at the same time.
All dice are imperfect and unbalanced, but I think the heavy 6-1 may be the result of other stuff. In any case, what they resolve to in a casino is what the casino cares about, and the randomness of die selection and all that stuff is factored in! You're profiling the stick not a cube.
aahigh.com
March 13th, 2013 at 10:07:54 PM
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Quote: AhighAlso, if there is a controlled shooter...
How can we identify a controlled shooter? Will he tell us, or do something special... like take off his shirt? :)
March 13th, 2013 at 10:09:07 PM
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Quote: MonkeyMonkeyHow can we identify a controlled shooter? Will he tell us, or do something special... like take off his shirt? :)
If you don't believe in controlled shooters, just record them all. I get the joke, and yes it's funny.
aahigh.com
March 13th, 2013 at 10:13:04 PM
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Quote: AhighIf you don't believe in controlled shooters, just record them all. I get the joke, and yes it's funny.
This place has been so tense lately I felt a little levity in order, glad you took it in the spirit intended.
March 13th, 2013 at 10:34:49 PM
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Thanks Ahigh, I'll have to read up on it some more to better understand it.
I am a robot.
