"vulturing" on odds yields positive play?

I see that odds bets (both taking and laying) have a 0.00% HE, but if I'm only laying the odds on someone else's don't pass or don't come Line bets, will I actually have an edge since I've avoided the come out roll?

Is it similar to Blackjack where someone may not want to double down so I'll buy that bet for them?

Quote: multipointdays

will I actually have an edge since I've avoided the come out roll?

No, because you pay MORE to win LESS....
ie: 0% edge...neither you NOR the house has the edge...total coin-flip.

No. The only reasonably-frequent +EV play in craps is buying someone else's don't points for even money (usually the 6 or 8). Odds bets have no edge whether you make the associated line bet or not. That said, if you can find someone else to let you piggyback odds, you'll still be playing with no edge.

Quote: MathExtremist

No. The only reasonably-frequent +EV play in craps is buying someone else's don't points for even money (usually the 6 or 8). Odds bets have no edge whether you make the associated line bet or not. That said, if you can find someone else to let you piggyback odds, you'll still be playing with no edge.

You'd have to be mighty friendly with the dealers...but when people say "No Action" if you convince them to let YOU take the action, you'd have a slightly +EV bet behind the 6/8...

another + EV craps play is if you get a really jammed up table, sometimes your come bets don't get moved to the number.

Quote: sodawater

another + EV craps play is if you get a really jammed up table, sometimes your come bets don't get moved to the number.

MALFEASANCE!
lol

Quote: multipointdays

I see that odds bets (both taking and laying) have a 0.00% HE,
but if I'm only laying the odds on someone else's don't pass or don't come Line bets, will I actually have an edge since I've avoided the come out roll?

I do just that a lot when my friends play at a 10X odds table and only take/lay maybe 2 to 3x odds.
They just think I'm nuts for not making my own bet.
But I do, hardways, Place6&8 and so on.

But we can do the math real quick and see if TIMSPEED is right (he is right BTW)

The lay odds on the 4/10, for example, are 2 pays 1.
The bet wins 6 out of 9 (2/3)
is a loss 3 out of 9 (1/3)

So let us see what happens with exactly 9 bets made.

Say $20 lay odds each time.
We lose 3 times * $20 = -$60
We win 6 times * $10 = +$60
Hey, the cancel each other out.

So TS is 100% correct.

Now the chance to get 6 win and 3 loss is 27.3129%
Just one more win and we got ourselves a profit for these 9 bets.
7 wins and 2 loss is sweet! (+$70 and -$40) for a $30 profit.

The odds bet just means we only need just a bit of good luck to pull out a net win.
In this case just one more win than expectation at a 23.4111%

The chance of being even or ahead is 65.0307% from 9 bets

at 900 bets we still have 51.5665% chance at being even or ahead.
Not bad at all

Playing a zero HE game is better than playing a game with any kind of house edge.

At a casino with high odds (say 10-20X) which also counts odds towards points, it would make sense to let someone add to your odds bet if you're not taking the maximum. If any such place exists. Assuming, of course, you're playing craps to begin with, not as an advantage play.

Vulturing odds is the best bet in the casino, but you are just reducing your expected loss to zero. I do it all the time in 3x4x5x casinos, but usually while I am betting as well. If the place has 10x odds or higher I am usually putting enough behind my own bets to be satisfied with the amount in action.

"Hey, I see you aren't taking odds... mind if I ride behind you for good luck?" is usually what I say when I'm trying to horn in on their odds.

Someone made a good point about the come bets not being moved to the number on a busy table. I see that not infrequently. You can raise the issue if the number hits on the next roll too. For example, you put a come bet out, a 4 is rolled. The come bet is not moved, which you are fine with because who wants a 4? A 4 is rolled again. Immediately celebrate. Point at your come bet. Tell the dealer "you didn't move my come bet." It has worked every time for me, and I view this half of the coin as ethical because you made the bet an won. The other side of the coin, which is more unethical, is to say nothing and when the 7 is rolled and you get paid then you take the money.

Quote: TIMSPEED

You'd have to be mighty friendly with the dealers...but when people say "No Action" if you convince them to let YOU take the action, you'd have a slightly +EV bet behind the 6/8...

Not that slight: 9.09%
Cheers,
Alan Shank