So unbalanced dice everywhere or not?
The Point remains the same - the probability that the pips are the same weight as the plastic cube in cheap dice is very small. There are no laws in Nevada saying they have to be. We have visited a Dice factory in Nevada and the factory supervisor told us this as well as did the Nevada Gaming Commission in an email.
In Australia, they have very specific laws about the dice -- why can't we have same here ?
Quote: Australia Gaming Dice Laws• Dice must be transparent.
• Dice must be manufactured to a tolerance of 0.0006 inches (0.01528mm).
• All sides of the dice must be equal in dimension and have the same angle between the sides.
• All edges and corners must have a uniform finish.
• The surface of each dice side must be flat.
• Any markings on the dice must be flush with the dice surface.
• The texture and finish of each side must be identical to each other side.
• The weight of the dice should be evenly distributed throughout the dice with no side lighter or heavier then any other side.
• Each dice must have the Casino Name permanently imprinted, impressed or engraved on one face.
• Each dice must have a unique set identifier permanently imprinted, impressed or engraved on one face.
• The substance used to fill the markings on each face must be the same density as the dice.
• The rear surface of the dice markings must be visible through the dice from the opposing face.
• The dice faces must be numbered one to six.
• Opposite faces of the dice must sum to seven.
• The side of each die must be between 19.05mm and 19.69mm in size.
• Dice must be supplied in sets of five with each dice in the set displaying the same identifying number.
Quote: AlanMendelsonHarley, you didn't answer my question about 7s on the come out ...
What we'd all like to know is if you ever weighed the pip material and does it differ from the weight (mass) of the cube material?
Alan - 1. In our database for 7s, we only care if someone is setting or trying to influence for a 7 or 11 or Horn, otherwise we do not care if it is a Come-out 7 or not -- a 7 is a 7 whether it is a winner or loser, it still goes in our database as a roll. We also mark the faces of each die as to 1-6 or 2-5 or 3-4 ..... this tells us which axis is dominant.
as to your second question, we did not have the proper equipment to weigh such small masses as the pips and compare the same material of a cube -- getting that same cube material was hard for us .... that is why we went to the Dice factory here in Vegas and asked them --- and we were shocked to find out they did not even have a balancer in the factory !!
Quote: Frank ScobleteWhy would the casinos want to add to their already monumental edge at craps by using based dice? When you review the actually winnings at the craps tables, they come in at 16-20 percent of the money wagered. Why slaughter players even worse than this and then run the risk of these folks going into semi-retirement from the game or fleeing to casinos where they occasionally win? I just don't see the motivation behind cheating with biased dice. If I got the motivation to do something that is already being done, I might look into this. As it is, I see no reason for fixing a game that is already fixed.
February 5 at 9:37am
Quote: Harley@Frank - ... beancounters are under pressure to make profits to cover increasing Debt service incurred in building Mega-resorts. Casinos are now run by corporations -- corporations are greedy --- No CEO is happy with 20%
Tropicana, NJ Craps hold for Jan, 2012 was 70.03%
Elko County, NV Craps win percentage for Nov. 2012 was 29.4%
Resorts Casino, NJ craps Win % for Sept, 2012 was 24.1%
Caesars Atlantic City craps Win % for February, 2012 was 32.2 %
Tropicana, NJ Craps win percentage for April, 2012 was 39.0 % according to their NJ tax return signed by Jeff Bohrer, Casino Controller
... supposedly GTC alumni are winning at the tables, so the casino win percentage should be a lot less than the built-in 16-20%
February 5 at 2:10pm
https://www.facebook.com/groups/13620749084/?fref=ts
We asked the Nevada Gaming Commission why we could not review the individual tax returns of the casinos like New Jersey allows - their answer was that is would not be fair to the privacy of the casino. WTF ?!$!!!$!!
And what is the Risk - Reward ........ in Vegas, if -- a big IF you are caught using bad dice, it is a $10,000. fine ........ yet, let's look at Caesar's AC tax returns for 2012 ..... If Caesars can double their monthly profits from 16% to 32% -- which they did in 2/12, that is an extra $2 million profit a month just from Craps ..... when you handle $13 million cash in a slow month (5/2012), you cannot ignore the greedy possibility to increase profits by using biased dice.
Quote: Frank ScobleteInteresting but casino craps is not that big a contributor to the bottom line of casinos. Think about it. How many people play the game on a daily basis in any given casino as compared to all the people who play the slots, video poker, blackjack, roulette, the carnival games? Eking out a tiny bit more money from craps (that extra bit might not even make a tenth of a percent, if that) --- wouldn't even happen should players become discouraged and leave that establishment --- just doesn't make sense. Now, I know some casinos have changed the payouts on some of the crazy crapper bets to increase their income but all of this is less than a drop in a drop in the bucket. I still don't see any motivation for screwing around with the dice. Too many drawbacks, not enough revenue to make it worthwhile.
... I think in this sense, there is no earthly reason to put in biased dice. Change the slot paybacks by a tenth of a percentage point and the income would go way up in comparison. The bottom line reason for doing this just doesn't hold up.
Quote: Harley@Frank - Sure Slots is your number 1 game, but Craps is religiously the number 2 table game in amount of cash played (Drop) and the corporate casino beancounters and Management would be foolish to ignore ways to increase profits for an area that is so significant. Using Biased Dice or Percentage Dice increases the house edge or profit center for craps. Pick a tax return -- any tax return --- Let's look at Caesar's AC for May, 2012 Drops rounded to millions:
Craps 13.0;
Roulette - 7.5;
Bac - 5.1;
MiniBac - 6.5;
BJ - 35.3
..... when you handle $13 million cash in a slow month, you cannot ignore the greedy possibility to increase profits by using biased dice.
BTW, changing the Slot paybacks by a tenth of a percentage point would have only netted $214,207. more cash compared to the $2 million in craps for Caesar's (May, 2012) - The Bottom Line = If Caesars can double their monthly profits from 16% to 32% -- which they did in 2/12, that is an extra $2 million profit a month just from Craps .... that is significant in anyone's books.
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