So unbalanced dice everywhere or not?
I'm asking just to be non-dismissive of the suggestion. But that's why I started with the fact that I think it's ridiculous. There are ridiculous things in the real world, nevertheless.
Casinos do have problems with dice manufacturers, but they usually are just that they won't mic.
Quote: HarleyHe also stated that he did not polish or sand down the pips after they were inserted so they are not perfectly flush, but still within tolerance according to Atlantic City standards and to Nevada since there were no regulations here. A member of our Dice Research Team met with the Nevada Gaming Commission and reported this dice factory to them. Within 6 months the dice factory moved to Mexico, but still supplied dice to Las Vegas Strip casinos just like before .... the difference now is the Nevada Gaming Board does not have jurisdiction over a factory in Mexico .... or any in China either.
Doesn't the board have jurisdiction over what is being used in the casinos it is supposed to regulate, including those provisions about the fairness of the gambling equipment?
Quote: SanchoPanzaDoesn't the board have jurisdiction over what is being used in the casinos it is supposed to regulate, including those provisions about the fairness of the gambling equipment?
Having been the guy who has, to this point, created the most effective die-balancing system available, I can tell you from my research that NOBODY HAS THE TECHNOLOGY TO EVEN KNOW.
When the die balance that exists was being used improperly on you tube, I went about showing how it should be used. The problem is that it only works on brand new dice with very sharp corners.
Once you have ANY WEAR on those corners (including just clamping down the balance itself onto the corners) you have got rounded corners, and the force from those rounded corners on the cups affects the spin in addition to the position of the CG for the cube.
I am actually coming up with more ideas for die balancing systems if I find any bias on the new Paulson dice that I have in my closet.
I normally don't throw with those dice. And that may be why they got sold off. Maybe they sucked balls! Maybe the table they were being used on dumped like mad to a don't player! Who the heck knows?!? But I will look into it. I imagine it is just random and the die is balanced properly, but I am going to work on another balance detection system.
Wayne at the Silverton said he had to throw out a bunch of Paulson dice because they didn't mic properly.
I always thought they were the best quality dice available. But the dice are only as good as the people making at the time of production. So I am sure the quality level is something that fluctuates based on the details of what is going on during manufacturing.
I'll share what I find, anyway.
fair enough ..... for starters - you can run with the data you have from last night's Ahigh Show ...... that was a perfect real world simulation with real world results, so the data should be just fine for 1 database.
Let me caution - you collect chips, our team collects dice. Each casino can use from one to 4 types of dice in a week. The resin compound formula in the white pips varies from dice type even within a casino. Do you really think a casino would just have 1 type of BlackJack in a casino ALL with the same house edge ??!! ..... then why would you even think that they would only offer 1 game of craps without varying the house edge among the tables .... all too often, you will have some kind of house edge variance between tables. (see https://wizardofodds.com/games/blackjack/calculator/ )
It's called Casino Marketing 101 .... no different than a retail store having a different profit margin on most items in the store.
Sun Tzu gives us 2 valuable lessons in The Art of War. One is in “the Nine Situations”, that if you manage to seize a favorable position, the amount of information that we choose to disclose should be limited ….. thus we cannot disclose on a public forum all we know on how to combat the biased dice that casinos are using because they would simply just make countermeasures.
Second Sun Tzu tells us that
Quote:Know your enemy and know yourself and you can fight a hundred battles without disaster
The Gambler's Book Shop (on Eastern Ave. in Las Vegas) motto is "knowledge is protection." At the store, they have a book by Steven L Forte for $750.00 called “Casino Game Protection: A Comprehensive Guide” ….. you can also get it on Amazon from about $300. to $1,000.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/0975986406/ref=dp_olp_new?ie=UTF8&condition=new
As explained on our website (Link listed in my signature), there are no technical dice specification laws in Nevada and Forte states in his aforementioned book on page 247:
Quote:The bottom line: in jurisdictions without regulations that set forth an acceptable range of tolerances or standards, it can be difficult to state when a die is legally acceptable, or when it should be deemed a cheating device.
This vagueness in the Nevada dice laws allows the casinos to have an unfair game and increase the House edge as much as they desire --- just like they did when they started using 6:5 BlackJack to increase the House edge by over 800 percent (see http://www.blackjack-scams.com/html/6_5_blackjack.html )
many still think that is ridiculous
I know that we saw so many 6's and 1's. Normally I see FEWER sixes and ones. What I saw was pretty much the opposite of what I was hoping for, and was still far worse than I felt would occur.
Since there's three different things all interacting together (the throw, the die balance, and randomness) I believe randomness is the biggest factor. I also think the throw is a bigger factor than the dice being improperly balanced, but I have no basis for thinking that, just a guess.
What I plan on doing is just randomly throwing these couple of dice a whole bunch of times and recording them further to see which what we get from 1 to 6 on each die independently.
But I need a bunch of samples, and it will take a long time.
Right now we just have a little yellow flashing light that warrants looking more into this, but this is a ton of work.
I will get to the bottom of it though.
Suppose we all assume that the dice we play with at casino craps are not properly balanced and let's assume that the balance is off by only tiny fractions. What will be the overall effect on anyone's roll?
There is a lot more to a decision at a craps table than spinning a die on a balancing device. There are throws and bounces and hops and jumps and in the end how much effect could an off-balance die have on the results? And if both dice have an off-balance what then?
Last night Ahigh's TV show illustrated there can be a short term impact, but is that really a fair representation because his two off balance die may not represent the same amount of "off balance" as other dice, and his throw might have exacerbated the effect of the off balance while another shooter's throw might not.
Sometimes we say "there is a difference but the difference makes no difference." Is it possible that if we find out that all dice are off balance, in the end result the difference in the balance actually makes no difference?
I have, for example, some dice with no pips in them. I can actually put lead into the pips and polish that die down and use that as a "worst case scenario" for what a casino could do to gaffe the balance with heavier resin.
It's very useful to look at extremes. You want it to be extreme to see what the effect is. Then you could do some metal that's maybe less dense than lead and see what you get there.
What we saw last night ABSOLUTELY was not MERELY the presence of biased dice.
It could have been a combination of bad luck, bad throwing, and biased dice. All aligning like the planets to create a total nightmare.
I mean there were a LOT of sevens!!!! And really no good rolls AT ALL in 140 rolls.
It could also have just been a biased throw where the bias was producing more sevens instead of less sevens.
I have everything on video, so maybe I will take a look.
Quote: HarleyAhigh,
fair enough ..... for starters - you can run with the data you have from last night's Ahigh Show ...... that was a perfect real world simulation with real world results, so the data should be just fine for 1 database.
Let me caution - you collect chips, our team collects dice. Each casino can use from one to 4 types of dice in a week. The resin compound formula in the white pips varies from dice type even within a casino. Do you really think a casino would just have 1 type of BlackJack in a casino ALL with the same house edge ??!! ..... then why would you even think that they would only offer 1 game of craps without varying the house edge among the tables .... all too often, you will have some kind of house edge variance between tables. (see https://wizardofodds.com/games/blackjack/calculator/ )
It's called Casino Marketing 101 .... no different than a retail store having a different profit margin on most items in the store.
Sun Tzu gives us 2 valuable lessons in The Art of War. One is in “the Nine Situations”, that if you manage to seize a favorable position, the amount of information that we choose to disclose should be limited ….. thus we cannot disclose on a public forum all we know on how to combat the biased dice that casinos are using because they would simply just make countermeasures.
Second Sun Tzu tells us that
The Gambler's Book Shop (on Eastern Ave. in Las Vegas) motto is "knowledge is protection." At the store, they have a book by Steven L Forte for $750.00 called “Casino Game Protection: A Comprehensive Guide” ….. you can also get it on Amazon from about $300. to $1,000.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/0975986406/ref=dp_olp_new?ie=UTF8&condition=new
As explained on our website (Link listed in my signature), there are no technical dice specification laws in Nevada and Forte states in his aforementioned book on page 247:
This vagueness in the Nevada dice laws allows the casinos to have an unfair game and increase the House edge as much as they desire --- just like they did when they started using 6:5 BlackJack to increase the House edge by over 800 percent (see http://www.blackjack-scams.com/html/6_5_blackjack.html )
many still think that is ridiculous
More conjecture. Citing the Art of War? Blathering about how the house uses different blackjack games? None of this has anything to do with the dice. It is just you making off-topic comparisons in an effort to appeal to the stupid.
How about this: provide some proof 1) that the dice are intentionally unbalanced (weighted pips would be nice) and 2) that this weighting would actually increase the house edge.
Your schtick seems to be convincing people that it is in the casino's interest to make more money. Congratulations, nobody disagrees with you. But you and the website you cite just spout mountains of random crap that has little to do with the dice.
CASINOS MAKE MORE MONEY ON 6:5 BLACKJACK -> these same casinos cheat at dice. You can do better than this crap.
Dice Face Totals Hits Standard Deviation
1 390 .15
2 395 .43
3 373 -.8
4 358 -1.63
5 374 -.74
6 434 2.6
Total 2324
High 434
Low 358
Chance of
random (1/x) 9.18046577
Chi square 9
Average 387.3333333
Break even 464.8
80% hi conf. 427.7568723
95% hi conf. 436.7398809
80% low conf. 346.9097944
95% low conf. 337.9267857
Best ratio 5.35483871
Worst ratio 6.491620112
Quote: AlanMendelsonI think there are some casino employees here. Do you check the dice or just accept them as-is from the factory?
Never ever accept anything from the factory. Cards and dice are mass produced, and as such, are rife with errors.
Every one of ours, bar none, are measured with a micrometer to ensure they are of even measurment and those measurments are within Compact specs, and they are all spun on a caliper to ensure balance. Skill with the caliper and pride in accuracy may differ between personnel, but they at least go through the motions =)
Quote: FaceNever ever accept anything from the factory. Cards and dice are mass produced, and as such, are rife with errors.
Every one of ours, bar none, are measured with a micrometer to ensure they are of even measurment and those measurments are within Compact specs, and they are all spun on a caliper to ensure balance. Skill with the caliper and pride in accuracy may differ between personnel, but they at least go through the motions =)
What city? What caliper do you spin them on?
Quote: AhighWhat city? What caliper do you spin them on?
Salamanca / Niagara Falls.
What? I dunno, it's a caliper...
Quote: FaceNever ever accept anything from the factory. Cards and dice are mass produced, and as such, are rife with errors.
Every one of ours, bar none, are measured with a micrometer to ensure they are of even measurment and those measurments are within Compact specs, and they are all spun on a caliper to ensure balance. Skill with the caliper and pride in accuracy may differ between personnel, but they at least go through the motions =)
This is very good to know. And what percentage of dice do you reject?
Quote: FaceSalamanca / Niagara Falls.
What? I dunno, it's a caliper...
That place looks pretty nice.
Although, have you noticed that the website states the following:
Quote:Craps
The most popular chance game in the world. Stack it on the pass line and play the odds to land a lucky 7 winner.
The problem, of course, is that if you stacked it on the PL and made an Odds bet (clearly, the point has been established) there would be nothing lucky about the 7 as it would not be a winner.
Have you eaten at Patria, and if so, is it pretty good? Italian Restaurants are often a good choice for a vegetarian. I seriously might make it up there one day, four hours isn't a bad drive...
Quote: AhighHaving been the guy who has, to this point, created the most effective die-balancing system available, I can tell you from my research that NOBODY HAS THE TECHNOLOGY TO EVEN KNOW.
Why not just float them? Calipers have friction at the corners of the dice; salt water doesn't. If you release a die in salt water six times, once each with each face upward, and the die rotates to the same position each time, you know that the center of mass isn't in the center of the cube.
But even knowing that the center of mass isn't at the center of the cube doesn't mean much. It could still be the case that the effect of an unbalanced die is less than the effect of worn corners or otherwise not able to impact the house edge beyond a negligible degree. If biased dice lead to a house edge on the passline of 1.41417% instead of 1.41414%, you'd never notice. And neither would the casino.
Another idea I had was to do create a method to spin the die very fast in a controlled way and look for wobble.
If you're good you can do this with your fingers, but I think you could make a machine to do it with some precision such that if it's off balance it will visibly wobble out of the device at a threshold speed that indicates how far out of balance the die is.
In other words, all dice would eventually find a speed where the CG is far enough off center that it would hop out. But the speed at which that happens tells you HOW balanced the die is.
There is absolutely no market for such a device that I know of. So there's no fear of anybody stealing ideas for profit or money motivation to come up with an idea.
But it could be fun if someone could come up with something.
Quote: MathExtremistWhy not just float them?
did you pitch this to Letterman?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2u6cd-qUDtw
You could use a dense saltwater to reduce the need for (as many) bubbles. I suspect that the clinging of the bubbles would not be uniform enough for this to work; I am just trying to think of really inexpensive ways to keep the die from ever touching bottom while you inspect the propensities for which orientation the die prefers as it dances around in the bubbles.
I highly doubt that saltwater that is very highly concentrated is dense enough to float a die.
IE: I would bet "no" on the "will it float" game no matter how much salt is added.
As great an idea as this is, it is dependent on a cheap dense liquid in order to work.
I think the idea I like better is spinning on a rotating rod using an adjustable laser pointer to get the die centered as it spins, then increase the spin rate until it flies off.
The higher the spin rate before it flies off, the more balanced the die is.
The rod should be smaller than 3/4" in diameter so as to only interact with the 100% flat surface of the die and should spin smoothly and ideally be connected to a much more massive underlying balanced metal disc to keep it from vibrating at high speed.
For the random thrower there is no difference. If you looked at every casino in America today you would
see players looking at the table saying "can you beieve that ... 8 seven outs in a row, have you ever seen
that many 6/1 in your life. On other tables with the same dice from the same manufacturer some random
guy just hit a fire bet, others threw 5 6's in a row, every imaginable dice out come has been rolled some
where in the last hour, on some table.
I have a table close to me i wont play on because of its length. When i play all i get is 6/1..... now my friend
just flings the dice and he has had 3 -5 point fire bets in the last three weekends. same dice
A dicesitter is taught to stay on access with the throw and if you do that you eliminate the 6/1, when my
throw is ok i wont ever get a 6-1 it always a 4/3 with a 5/2 now and then.
I surely dont imagine dice are perfect, that would be improbable, but a casino is not dumb enough to allow
any dice that favor one combination or another, because there is some one some where that will figure
that out and make a killing,,,
Dicesitter
Quote: dicesitteryOU ARE 100% CORRECT
For the random thrower there is no difference. If you looked at every casino in America today you would
see players looking at the table saying "can you beieve that ... 8 seven outs in a row, have you ever seen
that many 6/1 in your life. On other tables with the same dice from the same manufacturer some random
guy just hit a fire bet, others threw 5 6's in a row, every imaginable dice out come has been rolled some
where in the last hour, on some table.
I have a table close to me i wont play on because of its length. When i play all i get is 6/1..... now my friend
just flings the dice and he has had 3 -5 point fire bets in the last three weekends. same dice
A dicesitter is taught to stay on access with the throw and if you do that you eliminate the 6/1, when my
throw is ok i wont ever get a 6-1 it always a 4/3 with a 5/2 now and then.
I surely dont imagine dice are perfect, that would be improbable, but a casino is not dumb enough to allow
any dice that favor one combination or another, because there is some one some where that will figure
that out and make a killing,,,
Dicesitter
Assuming "all you get is 6/1" why aren't you playing the pass line on the come out and getting rich?
If i spent hundreds and hundreds of hours on my toss and i have an advantage on some tables
why in the heck would i play on a table that is to long for my toss, screw that up to make
money on that table, and then cant throw on any other table, or go home and practice
on a table that is completely different.
Part of being successful in a casino is understanding what you can and can not do
so your bets dont get ahead of your ability.
Dicesitter.
http://gamesbyemail.com/News/DiceOMatic
It's not the only one out there. I believe they've shown no bias with their cheap dice. I am sure someone could build a similar machine to test for bias in a whole bundle of casino dice, if they had the time and inclination.
It would be pretty cool to have an automatic dice throwing machine that used a real craps table and real craps dice and a camera rig.
:-)
Too much work for me though.
Quote: KoganinjaPublished on Feb 1, 2013
Koganinja Presents More Information On Biased Dice
... I'm sent a link to The AHigh Show on Ustream. I check it out for like 15 minutes and find I'm bored to tears and I turn it off so I can use my time to watch a movie instead. A week goes by and I'm sent another link by a friend again to The AHigh Show. I click on to watch as I'm doing other things I hear the words dice caliper, come to find out during the demo AHigh was doing a ton of 6-1 7 outs kept showing up. As per request by Harlyhorn (aka Harley) who was in the chat too. AHigh agrees to bring out the $3000 caliper, I grab my pocket video camera to record the action. As faith would have it the dice in question come up UNBALANCED! It's at this point AHigh world comes crashing down around him! The Poster Child For No Biased Dice Exit has an EPIC FAIL live on the internet which you will see in this 15 Part video series. So enjoy the series and like I said before, believe what you will as I know, no matter what some see and are told some people will just not believe under no circumstances.
12) The AHigh Show Part 1 The Epic Revelation
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3x27QVPfMd0
13) The AHigh Show Part 2 The Epic Revelation
http://youtu.be/a3Hodn7fNUY
14) The AHigh Show Part 3 The Epic Revelation
http://youtu.be/A1i9YkLlFA4
Quote: Harley12) The AHigh Show Part 1 The Epic Revelation
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3x27QVPfMd0
13) The AHigh Show Part 2 The Epic Revelation
http://youtu.be/a3Hodn7fNUY
14) The AHigh Show Part 3 The Epic Revelation
http://youtu.be/A1i9YkLlFA4
That's pretty ballsy to rebroadcast my content without consulting with me first. I guess for someone who can't properly operate a die balancing caliper I shouldn't be surprised, though.
I'm going to look into whether or not I have recourse, but it should be known that I have not given authorization for this content to be put on you tube.
He should have talked to me first before doing this no matter what the law says, however.
And Harley of all people should know that as he cried copyright for my posting up info he posted on another board on GoodShooter.com.
You guys really are into the drama, aren't you?
http://www.ustream.tv/terms
Quote: Ustream-agreement
9. Obligations for Ustream Users.
a. General Prohibitions. The Site and Services may be used and accessed for lawful purposes only. You agree to abide by all applicable local, state, national and foreign laws, treatises and regulations in connection with your use of the Site and Services. In addition, without limitation, you agree that you will not do any of the following while using or accessing the Site or Services:
iii. Upload, stream, email or otherwise transmit (i) any User Submission to which you do not have the lawful right to copy, transmit and display (including any User Submission that would violate any confidentiality or fiduciary obligations that you might have with respect to the User Submission); (ii) any User Submission for which you do not have the consent or permission of each identifiable person in the User Submission to use the name, voice, signature, photograph, or likeness of each such person (to the extent each is implicated by the User Submission) and such consent or permission is necessary; or (iii) any User Submission that infringes the intellectual property rights or violates the privacy rights of any third party (including without limitation copyright, trademark, patent, trade secret, or other intellectual property right, or moral right or right of publicity);
Quote: Harleyso that's your response ?
Uhm, YEAH.
You brought this on yourself by not talking to me first about this AND by crying copyright infringement on me in the past, Harley.
you can either complain and have this video removed or stand up and be a man and note your part in finding the truth on this subject of biased dice ... we are just trying to share information to get to the truth ... no one selling your video to make money
Quote: Harleyso that's your response ? .... try reading the Fair Use Doctrine and Copyright Law
Look, the law wouldn't be involved if you had just talked to me first. We're past that. Your buddy is the one who should be brushing up on the law because I've not done anything wrong, legal or otherwise.
Quote: Harleytry reading the Fair Use Doctrine and Copyright Law ....
you can either complain and have this video removed or stand up and be a man and note your part in finding the truth on this subject of biased dice ... we are just trying to share information to get to the truth ... no one selling your video to make money
It does not matter if anyone is making money or not, Harley. Copyright law is about more than money. It's about ownership.
I worked my ass off to create that content including the creation of that caliper.
Now your buddy is broadcasting it without my authorization for HIS OWN purposes.
I have not authorized that.
It's very simple.
That work is my work not his work and not your work.
And trust me: it is work, and it cost me a lot of time and money.
Whether you profit makes no difference at all. My work is being used without authorization.
Quote:17 USC § 107 - Limitations on exclusive rights: Fair use
... the fair use of a copyrighted work, including such use by reproduction ... for purposes such as criticism, comment, ... or research, is not an infringement of copyright.
In determining whether the use made of a work in any particular case is a fair use the factors to be considered shall include—
(1) the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes; ...
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/17/107
FURTHERMORE, by you criticizing Koganinja's videos earlier in this thread, your material is proper to use as rebuttal against your posts in this very thread
brings new meaning to the phrase " a definite MAYBE " .
Seriously, the copyright issue is sidetracking the real issue of unbalanced Biased dice
Quote: Ahigh"Now your buddy is broadcasting it without my authorization for HIS OWN purposes."
Yes Koganinja is using your video for purposes to rebutt you as you built an amazing caliper and it works! .... It really works, it found out you had bad unbalanced dice that biased the outcomes and it effected your actual betting strategy. And this 15 part video series is Koganinja's response to all who have flamed and crapped on him (and I) and our research into bad dice.
This has been the 1 only rebuttal Koganinja has made in this year long saga .... yet your only rebuttal is to sidetrack to faulty copyright claims ?!!
Now be a man - stand up to your own convictions, drop your BS copyright claims you are pulling out of thin air and let people view these videos and judge for themselves.
Did I ever tell you about the time I got the giggles on live TV and I giggled through an entire stock market report after I reported on ways to get more value out of the toilet tissue in your bathroom? I think that video went around the world a few times... and that was twenty years ago, and I'm still here.
Oh, I still giggle.
If you know the dice are biased, then exploit it. Bet according to the bias.
The only dice setting people making money are the ones selling the "how to" and the seminars. I will, however, acknowledge that dropping the same face of the dice down each time will damage and slightly bias the dice.
The so called, "dice setters", should focus their skills on exploiting such "biased" dice, rather than foolishly complaining about them.
-Keyser
Quote: KeyserIf you know the dice are biased, then exploit it. Bet according to the bias.
That is assuming you can determine what the bias is without drawing attention to yourself and before that set of dice are switched out. Easier said than done.
Quote: Ahigh(Unacceptable image removed)
Thanks.
Quote: AcesAndEightsThat is assuming you can determine what the bias is without drawing attention to yourself and before that set of dice are switched out. Easier said than done.
AMEN AcesAndEights !! .... we have found the best key is in the serial numbers on the dice, still hard to determine exact bias in a percentage game that still favors the casino in the long run
I am already doing experiments at the Wynn to see if they are worried about me exploiting what is intended to be a theoretically biased throw, and they are only worried if either one of the two dice does not hit the back wall.
Why not do a similar experiment at the Wynn where you chart the bias on the dice and tell them what you're doing as your doing it like I am and see if they allow you to do it.
If your claims are true, when ANYONE begins to win money from the biased dice, you will get some attention from the casino personnel. All you have to do is the work. You don't have to risk big money. People are already risking big money. Just take the results of your work to the table and tell people what your work says is a smart bet and see if people listen and profit from your work.
I watched a few of Koga's videos, and there was some interesting stuff in there. But I felt like a lot of it was hinging on the possibility that what happened to me was in fact due to biased dice.
There was only 140 rolls in that session. And while the data I got would support the idea of what is being claimed by you and Koga, including the session with the balancer, it's not enough data yet to make conclusions.
I literally fell asleep last night trying to sit through Koga's videos. I think the part when I fell asleep was when he spent several minutes repeating that if you were in a hurry this wasn't for you and go do something else.
I agree that this all takes a lot of time. And it's also relevant that very FEW people are even interested. A big part of why I pulled out was that I felt (and I continue to feel) that this is a Red Herring.
The way that both you and Koga have responded is evidence too of the bias that you two guys have that you aren't being 100% impartial towards any findings.
You guys should be more motivated to work with me instead of against me. The way the whole set of videos talking about what I am doing without talking directly to me is a big sign that this isn't being done in a very scientific way. There is a conclusion that you want to reach, and you're using the data as support rather than to just interpret it and let it illuminate what is happening.
There are still many things to test. I would have much rather have had you and Koga set up a time to come check out these two dice that I set aside and do another recording session just randomly tossing these two dice to see what happens in the long term instead of jumping up and down with conclusions after 140 rolls and a balance session. There is way too much certainty in Koga's mind with way too little information.
Just as a recap, here's the data from that session, and it does in fact support a claim that theoretically 6-1 seven outs can be biased to come up more often. I think the reasonable or unreasonable nature of how they would manufacture dice to get these results (biasing towards the 6-1) is another discussion, but let's just go with that premise for now.
It's also important to note that I believe I used two different sets for these rolls, but the set wouldn't really matter if one assumes that there is absolutely no bias from my throw and any bias is from the balance of the dice. So let's just make that assumption too, for the purpose of this discussion.
Maybe the math guys (7 craps is good at this) can come in with something that says how random or not random this data is.
63`66`22`31`11`31`61`52`64`31`54`31`61`43`43`51`64`63`63`44`21`11`62`53`61`65`43`64`64`63
51`51`23`23`66`53`51`52`51`41`61`43`33`63`64`31`43`43`64`42`54`53`63`52`52`51`66`55`64`65
52`33`61`21`65`54`23`42`61`62`41`63`12`63`61`12`54`23`64`44`11`51`23`61`61`53`65`43`42`63
62`61`55`65`53`21`66`61`65`12`65`12`55`51`54`61`65`62`62`62`66`53`51`11`44`22`53`61`11`44
64`64`31`61`43`42`31`61`12`21`11`42`21`21`41`21`64`41`43`55
Total rolls: 140
1) 59 21.07% - 16.67 = (+4.40)---------------------------------------------------------------- 1
2) 37 13.21% - 16.67 = (-3.45)---------------------------------------- 2
3) 41 14.64% - 16.67 = (-2.02)-------------------------------------------- 3
4) 42 15.00% - 16.67 = (-1.67)---------------------------------------------- 4
5) 42 15.00% - 16.67 = (-1.67)---------------------------------------------- 5
6) 59 21.07% - 16.67 = (+4.40)---------------------------------------------------------------- 6
11: ------------ 2
21: ------------ 3
22: ---- 4
31: ------- 4
32: ----- 5
41: ---- 5
33: ---- 6
42: ----- 6
51: --------- 6
61: --------------- 7
52: ----- 7
43: --------- 7
53: ------- 8
44: -------- 8
62: ------ 8
63: --------- 9
54: ----- 9
55: -------- 10
64: ----------- 10
65: -------- 11
66: ---------- 12
2) 6 4.29% - 2.78% = 1.51% (+2.11)------ 2
3) 12 8.57% - 5.56% = 3.02% (+4.22)------------ 3
4) 9 6.43% - 8.33% = -1.90% (-2.67)--------- 4
5) 9 6.43% - 11.11% = -4.68% (-6.56)--------- 5
6) 16 11.43% - 13.89% = -2.46% (-3.44)---------------- 6
7) 29 20.71% - 16.67% = 4.05% (+5.67)----------------------------- 7
8) 17 12.14% - 13.89% = -1.75% (-2.44)----------------- 8
9) 14 10.00% - 11.11% = -1.11% (-1.56)-------------- 9
10) 15 10.71% - 8.33% = 2.38% (+3.33)---------------10
11) 8 5.71% - 5.56% = 0.16% (+0.22)--------11
12) 5 3.57% - 2.78% = 0.79% (+1.11)-----12
Total sevens 29 - Seven outs 20 (68.97%) - Seven winners 9 (31.03%)
Pairs 23 16.43% - 16.67% = -0.24% (-0.33 rolls)
Hards 12 8.57% - 11.11% = -2.54% (-3.56 rolls)
HiLos 11 7.86% - 5.56% = 2.30% (+3.22 rolls)
H2 6/2 ( 4.29% - 2.78% = +2.11)
H4 2/0 ( 1.43% - 2.78% = -1.89)
H6 2/2 ( 1.43% - 2.78% = -1.89)
H8 4/1 ( 2.86% - 2.78% = +0.11)
H10 4/3 ( 2.86% - 2.78% = +0.11)
H12 5/0 ( 3.57% - 2.78% = +1.11)
Quote:
Ahigh
Why not do a similar experiment at the Wynn where you chart the bias on the dice and tell them what you're doing as your doing it like I am and see if they allow you to do it.
If your claims are true, when ANYONE begins to win money from the biased dice, you will get some attention from the casino personnel. All you have to do is the work. You don't have to risk big money. People are already risking big money. Just take the results of your work to the table and tell people what your work says is a smart bet and see if people listen and profit from your work.
Ahigh why doesn't every bank robber call the cop and tell them what bank they are going to hit. For you it's all about being noticed, from what I can tell you've done this most of your life, with you're trick bike riding, trick motorcycle riding and now lets not forget your own TV show where you are the star, all in the name of having fun!
You at one time accused HarleyHorn of being a loser, because he said there were biased dice, without ever meting him. Well he is the only guy that I know that has lived on the strip for about 4 or more year, living off the comp's and casinos chips he has taking off the tables, without any other source of income. Now days he is living in a house that I talked him into buying and getting off the strip, as he was playing way to long everyday to keep up his comp's. Now days you are saying the same thing HarleyHorn has said all along that the casinos are using cheep dice! They can do this because there are no regulations in NV that will stop them.
Note that other craps boards started calling the dice loaded and anything else they could come up with so they didn't have to deal with the finding out if there were bad dice in the casinos. All they did was come up with any name they could to say HarleyHorn was nuts!
This thread shouldn't be about you or HarleyHorn, it should be about getting the state of NV to put in some regulations that are fair for the players.
NEW JERSEY'S PUBLISHED REGULATIONS FOR THROWING DICE, AND WHY YOU WON'T FIND THEM FOR NEVADA
Alan Mendelson
Quote:
Update October 27, 2011 I just found this-- New Jersey's published regulations about throwing dice and what is considered a valid throw and what isn't considered to be a valid throw. And, it's a bit different from what many craps players think-- and it actually differs slightly from what regulators in Nevada told me. And I also just found out that you won't find the Nevada regulations printed anywhere. More about that later.
But first, the New Jersey rules. Here are the regulations as published by New Jersey regulators:
19:47-1.8 Throw of the dice
Upon selection of the dice, the shooter shall make a Pass or Don't Pass Bet after which he shall throw the two selected dice so that they leave his hand simultaneously and in a manner calculated to cause them to strike the end of the table farthest from him.
19:47-1.9 Invalid roll of the dice
(a) A roll of the dice shall be invlid whenever either or both of the dice go off the table or whenever one die comes to rest on top of the other.
(b) The persons listed in (e) b shall have the authority to invalidate a roll of the dice by calling "No Roll" for any of the following reasons:
1. The dice do not leave the shooter's hand simultaneously;
2. Either or both of the dice fail to strike an end of the table;
3. Either or both of the dice come to rest on the chips constituting the craps bank of chips located in front of the boxperson.
4. Either or both of the dice come to rest in the dice cup in front of the craps stickperson, or in front of the the mini-craps dealer or stickperson, or on one of the rails surrounding the table;any other reason the craps boxperson or stickperson, or the mini-craps dealer or stickperson considers the throw to be improper.
(c) The call of "No Roll" under either paragraphs 1, 2 or 6 of subsection (b) of this section shall, whenever possible, be made before both dice come to rest.
(d) A throw of the dice which results in the dice coming into contact with any match play coupons or chips on the table, other than the craps bank of chips located in front of the Boxman, shall not be a cause for a call of "No Roll"..
http://alanbestbuys.com/id139.html
I would love to see the casinos call a no roll when my dice didn't hit the back wall, even when it was a seven! I did have that happen at Palace Station when they had there stand-up tub there for a short time, now some of you will ask how could you miss the back wall of a stand-up tub. That was very easy to do, as the table was so bouncy that some times when the dice hit the table they would bounce back the wrong way, never hitting the back wall. The first time it happened I couldn't believe that the dealer call a no roll on a 7.
