Craps with Friends

I have a group of friends and we play Hold 'em almost every week during the winter months. When I hit the casino though I love my craps. I want to take craps home though and just have a friendly game with my poker buddies.

Most of them don't play in casino's and if/when they ever go it's to play some slots or roulette because it's easy to play. So my idea was to just cut everything down to 10% or even 1% of normal craps.

So on a typical $5 craps table my table at home would be $0.50 table and that way we could keep the same payouts or to get my buddies interested even play the first night with say $0.05 min.

I've only read one small explanation on how we could rotate the house but haven't figured it all out yet.

Does anyone have any more insight on how we could rotate being the house so if it's a bad shooter night I don't rake in all of the winnings?

For example purposes let's say I have 6 people and we each bring $10 and the bets are $0.50 bets with 2x odds and obviously $0.60 on 6/8

Ideas?

If they're each going to put up $10, I'd make the minimum bet $.05, so they'll have the ability to make 200 plays.

If you rotate the house between each of the six of you, each of you will have a chance to be the winner on a bad shooting night. That isn't much fun, though, and would entice people to want to be the house.

One solution would be for the person who is the 'house' that night to put up $60 of his own money. Everyone is now trying to win that person's money, just like they would be in poker. That way, if no one shoots well and the house has a good night, no one is angry, because he is just getting his own money back.

If the seven pushes, 2,3 loses, 11,12 wins on the pass line - then it has no house edge. Combine that with some kind of a rotation system and maybe a VERY low vig buy bet system and you'll have a pretty fair game all around.

Edit: The pass line would have to pay true odds depending on the point as well.

Nah, don't start out cutting corners or making special rules or rotating the Bank.

Go get yourself one of those mini craps layouts. No expensive table. Just a somewhat large piece of felt properly marked out, some sort of tub or back board , chips and a good set of dice. Have it out there and see if it takes.

Make it a five dollar table,,, And make the Bank be the Liquor Bill. So that you spend any house profit on Booze and Crockpot Goodies for next time.

Legally that makes you a lawbreaker so if you don't want that spread the Bank at night into Equal Parts of rebates.

Don't try to get cute with five cent bets or any other nonsense you couldn't do at a real game.

If your friends don't go for the idea... then put it away and forget it. They may simply prefer poker.

Quote: FleaStiff

Nah, don't start out cutting corners or making special rules or rotating the Bank.

Go get yourself one of those mini craps layouts. No expensive table. Just a somewhat large piece of felt properly marked out, some sort of tub or back board , chips and a good set of dice. Have it out there and see if it takes.

Make it a five dollar table,,, And make the Bank be the Liquor Bill. So that you spend any house profit on Booze and Crockpot Goodies for next time.

Legally that makes you a lawbreaker so if you don't want that spread the Bank at night into Equal Parts of rebates.

Don't try to get cute with five cent bets or any other nonsense you couldn't do at a real game.

If your friends don't go for the idea... then put it away and forget it. They may simply prefer poker.

The host has to be pretty well bankrolled to take this much action. If he's not going to keep the profits, it's a whole lot of risk for nothing. Even a 5 dollar table can lose 10s of thousands of dollars on a bad night (I guess it depends what you limit the max bet to, but craps is no fun if you are forced to flat bat)

Quote: browie

Does anyone have any more insight on how we could rotate being the house so if it's a bad shooter night I don't rake in all of the winnings?

For example purposes let's say I have 6 people and we each bring $10 and the bets are $0.50 bets with 2x odds and obviously $0.60 on 6/8

Ideas?

All of you are the bank. Let's say there are 5 of you. Each person throws $20 into the bank, and each person has a 20% share of the bank.

Now elect a stickman, and play craps. You can rotate the stickman every 20 minutes (just like a real game).

Each player nows plays with their own money, and keeps any money won.

At the end of the night, distribute the bank back out to all of the players.

If one player had a good night, then the bank may have less the the starting $100, and every player will get back less than the $20 each they put in.
If the house won money, then every player will get back more than the $20 they invested.

I run a game with my buddies that uses quarter chips. We have a 50 cent minumum and 3x4x5x odds and it plays fairly well. I generally make some money, but they also make some hard way and hops bets, and they love the field. Honestly, rotating the bank is a bad idea. Everyone understands that the banker has an edge, but playing is more fun than banking. The banker gets the advantage of the house edge and the liability of variance. The only way that the banker can get really stung though is through aggressive pressing or if the whole table decides that they each want to throw a bet on the same prop bet. If two people both really want to bank the game, which is unlikely, then you need to have one person be a cashier/banker and be responsible for selling and honoring the chips. The people who want to bank the game can simply switch seats at the table every half hour, but most people aren't gonna want to bank. I police the bets and make sure that people are betting optimally (for example, 6 unit bets on the place 6). You must quickly and accurately calculate payoffs and make them, etc. On top of that, as a hot shooter keeps rolling, the banker is losing more and more money while everyone else is cheering and high fiving, and he has to keep doing all the work, give away his money, and pretend that he is not pissed that he is losing. I don't think anyone will be fighting with you, just bank the game yourself, offer to let others bank, and offer some kind of $25 in chipss for $20 to get the action started.

PS. It helps if you offer to buy beer and give it free to players

Quote: bigfoot66

I run a game with my buddies that uses quarter chips. We have a 50 cent minumum and 3x4x5x odds and it plays fairly well.

Out of curiosity, roughly how many players, how long of a session, average wagers, how big are you swinging as banker?

I think, traditionally, craps would be played with the shooter betting themself, and others fading the bet. The illusion of control would keep the shooter from begrudging the disparity in EV, and etiquette would keep all from abusing it. If you're used to poker, though, where even friendly games can be a bit cutthroat, it may be best to require a minimum bank of the shooter.

Quote: RaleighCraps

All of you are the bank. Let's say there are 5 of you. Each person throws $20 into the bank, and each person has a 20% share of the bank.

Now elect a stickman, and play craps. You can rotate the stickman every 20 minutes (just like a real game).

Each player nows plays with their own money, and keeps any money won.

At the end of the night, distribute the bank back out to all of the players.

If one player had a good night, then the bank may have less the the starting $100, and every player will get back less than the $20 each they put in.
If the house won money, then every player will get back more than the $20 they invested.

I think this is a cool idea for a home game, but just to be clear, are you saying that there are 5 people who each put in $20 to fund the bank and THEN buy in with their own money for $5 or whatever they choose to buy in for? Essentially saying that the 5 players are providing the bank funds and are entitled to 20% of whatever remains in the bank at the end of the night in addition to whatever they choose to buy in for? Also, what are your suggestions if the bank runs out of money? Game over?

Quote: duckmankilla

I think this is a cool idea for a home game, but just to be clear, are you saying that there are 5 people who each put in $20 to fund the bank and THEN buy in with their own money for $5 or whatever they choose to buy in for? Essentially saying that the 5 players are providing the bank funds and are entitled to 20% of whatever remains in the bank at the end of the night in addition to whatever they choose to buy in for? Also, what are your suggestions if the bank runs out of money? Game over?

Yes, you pretty much have it. Basically, ALL of the players have an equal share of the house (or the bank). By using percentages, you can let people fund the bank for their comfort level, so one person can put more in if the others are agreeable. Percentage put in, will be your percentage to take out at end of night.
(example: 5 players. ONE puts in $100, and the other 4 put in $25 each. ONE has a 50% share of the bank, the other 4 each have a 12.5% share.)

If the bank runs out of money, you would have to decide whether or not to restock it. Obviously, the money is still in the room, and most likely, it is evenly distributed amongst most of the players.

There are a couple of other variations to consider.

ONE: Allow the stick to also have bets in action. That way if a shooter gets hot, the stick is not left out of the action. Of course, if the stick did not put any funding into the bank, then this is not a problem.

TWO: Play 3-4-5x odds, but allow the shooter to take 5x odds on any point. That way the good shooter gets a bit of an extra win over the other players.
(The high odds are a risk to the bank though, so you may want to play single odds, and let the shooter take 2x odds).

EXAMPLE:
To keep it simple, I am going to do it on a $5 table. (You can make it a $.05 table at home, and reduce the numbers by a factor of 100). Also, keep in mind that even if the bank goes broke, most of the players will have gotten their money back that they put into the bank. It's not like they lost ALL of their funding money.

Time for our Friday night game.

5 Players show up. Each player puts $500 in the TILL for the bank, so each player has a 20% share of the bank. Bank is given $2,500 in chips. This $500 bank funding includes $100 in chips for each player.
Game will be single odds, but the shooter can take 2x odds.
Now, each player gets their $100 in chips directly from the bank. The initial amount handed out has to be equal to their bank share.
So the bank now has $2,000 in chips, and each player has $100 in chips.
If a player loses all of their chips, they may buy more chips from the bank.

Player A loses his chips, so he pulls out $100 more in cash, and the cash goes into the TILL. The stick gives the player $100 in chips from the bank.
Player A still has only 20% of the bank. This additional buy in was player money, not the initial bank funding.

Player B loses his chips, but he decides not to play anymore. He is elected permanent stickman, and learns not to be a loser again.
Let's say nobody else runs out of chips, and at the end of the night, players A,C,D,E each have exactly $100 in chips in front of them.
The TILL has $2600 in it. $2500 from the initial funding plus $100 from Player A.
A,C,D,E each get $100 in cash from the TILL for their chips. TILL has $2,200 left.
Each player has a 20% share, so each player receives $440. TILL has $0 left.

So what happened?
Players C,D, and E all brought $500 to the game. They started playing with $100 in chips, and they ended with $100 in chips, so they were even for their craps play.
They received $100 in cash for their chips, and they received $440 from the bank, so they finished with $540, a $40 profit on the night.

Player B brought $500 to the game. They lost their initial chips, did not buy in for anymore, so they got $0 for cashing in. But they get $440 back for their 20% of the bank, thus they lost $60 on the night. (They get back 20% of their $100 they lost, plus they get back 20% of the $100 Player A lost, or $40).

Player A brought $500 to the game initially, but then bought in for another $100. He finished the game with $100 in chips (so he really lost $100 playing the game). He got $100 in cash for his chips, and he received $440 from the bank, so he now has $540 in cash, but since he bought in for $600, he has a $60 loss. (He also go back $20 from his $100 loss, and he got $20 from Player B's $100 loss).

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It sounds confusing, but it really isn't. Just set your initial funding of the bank, give each 'banker' an amount of chips (based on their bank share) from the bank, and then play craps normally from there. More cash goes into the till, and the chips come from the bank. At the end of the night, each player gets cash for the chips in front of them, and then the rest of the money is split up by the initial funding percentage.

Final note. You really don't need to put the $500 in cash from each player in the TILL. Once you get used to doing this, you realize it is just an accounting entry.
Suppose one player lost their initial chips, and did not buy back in. And later the bank goes broke. That player has lost 100% of whatever their funding amount was.

Play with friends and people you can trust!
If someone slips more chips into play, the bank will be underfunded, and everyone else gets screwed.

LOVE LOVE LOVE it RaleighCraps

With this extensive 2nd reply you answered my 2nd question I was contemplating before I replied. (Should I put more chips on the table when some one buy's in?) You answered no. Reason being is because it doesn't matter if you have the correct amount of chips as in the TILL because it's split 20% anyway. I guess though if say I put 1,000 chips on the table and some one bought in for another 100 chips and I added that from my chip box rather than the bank it might help the odds of the bank actually losing all of the chips. I have a feeling if one or more people have to buy in the bank has plenty of chips to keep playing.

I know with the novice friends I have doing something like $0.50 and $0.60 on 6/8 would be better to start.

I also like going 3x4x5x odds because of payouts but I see your point for 1x and 2x. I would probably go with everyone can go 2x to start and see how it goes.

Another thing was the stick man. Me being one of two guys that know the game well I'd be the stickman. I was thinking that I would put cash in the TILL also and therefore claiming stake in the bank. If the bank wins I would earn interest on my investment like the others.

I think what you have posted is by far the best way to play with friends, it's a simple solution. Me being a math major I'm just disappointed I didn't think of it.

The one thing to be careful with is your local law enforcement. Most places are conditioned to ignore friendly poker games. Our DA has openly said he is not interested in local poker games, as long as there is no house rake, and as long as there are no complaints about the game. I think a lot of places are like that.
However, make it a craps game instead, and the DA may not take as lenient a view. If you can show that everyone of the players is combining to act as the house, and show that no one player is profiting from that, you MIGHT be able to escape problems. But then again, you might get the book thrown at you....

never mind

Spam alert.

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I host craps games at home. We do not gamble. Until recently we played by casino rules. I was the dealer most of the time. I searched the net for a better way to play and I found a suggestion on a craps website hosted by a casino craps instructor.

We now play using his suggestions. First off, each participant deals a hand and shoots the dice to complete a round of play. This eliminates the host from dealing every hand. In a nutshell, we play using TRUE ODDS on Place Bets and Props. No house edge.

The Pass Line and Come bets are identical to casino rules. Same holds true for the Dark Side. Lay bets are also the same as a casino except we pay no commission.

Place bets also pay True Odds.

Place bet odds in a casino are, as we all know, based on true odds but adjusted to give the casino an edge. Same holds true in the Props.

By paying place bets true, anyone can deal the game.

I watched the videos on the website and my first reaction was very similar to your current reaction. I thought it was not a good idea. I dismissed it.....until we tried it. Now, I will only play this way in home games.

Taking turns dealing True Odds is much easier than casino adjusted odds. The host of the website also has similar rules for novice beginners. Again, upon watching that video I was not sold on the idea...until I hosted a game with neighbors who had never played craps before. .... I used those rules and they picked up the basics much faster than if I had taught them and they really had a good time playing....and dealing.

I have hosted games each weekend and the games are getting bigger as friends of friends ask if they can join us. This last Saturday night we had 8 people playing, each taking a turn dealing and shooting the dice. We were drinking and smoking and it was crazy fun for all.

I love playing at home using these rules and I especially love not having to deal all the time.

Consider playing TRUE ODDS craps when you have a group of players.

I don’t really see the difference between paying true odds or casino odds on place/prop bets.

You are netting the pass / don’t pass edge to zero by alternating dealers. The edge on place/prop bets would net out similarly

The point is that anyone can pay True on place bets thus anyone can deal. It simplifies the game yet one could easily understand casino version after playing true odds. It does not change the game. The core game is based on True Odds.

Çraps is not a popular home game. The reason is because most of us that do host a home game play by casino adjusted odds which makes it confusing to novice players. I've hosted games with knowledgeable craps players and they get handcuffed on a good roll with multiple players playing casino odds.

Paying 3:2 and 6:5 is much easier than 7:5 and 7:6. Eliminating the buy bet on 4/10 or the commission I should say, speeds up the game especially on a hot roll.

Six and eight place bets @7:6 can handcuff the best players when people power press. 6:5 is much easier. Place bets on 5&9 are also much easier at 3:2

The hardways are easy replacing the natural "to" rather than paying "for".....The horn numbers @ 35:1 and 17:1 is the ONLY challenge you have and that is easy once you get used to it.

The OP wanted advice on how to host a home game and this is it. Like the website says...KISS

And it's true

Yes I I agree that 6:5 is easier than 7:6. Excluding DP odds bets, 7:6 is the only craps ratio I can think of that’s not on a :1, :2 or :5 basis

My next house will have a dedicated room large enough for a full size craps table. I figure the room needs to be at least 18 feet long

And the best part besides having not to deal all night or finding someone who can. True Odds it is so simple, novice first time players can pick it up suprisingly fast.

I live in SoCal and I enjoy the game. However; I won't play card craps. I visit Vegas or Laughlin and play. But in between I play at home and it was hard to get a dice game going. You can't drink and learn casino odds. Nobody want to lcome over and learn craps unless it is KISS

You can do this. Anyone can. Granted, we're not gambling, or I should say most of the time we don't, and this is a fun way to play with friends.

And I suppose I should mention that even my wife who never played now wants to play all the time.

Quote: Ace2

My next house will have a dedicated room large enough for a full size craps table. I figure the room needs to be at least 18 feet long
link to original post

I don't have that kind of room. I play on a portable rig. I don't know if I would want a real craps table. I supposed I would if I lived in a mansion.

Make it tournament style. Everyone gets the same number of chips.

If you want to make the pass and DP bets effectively zero edge :

When a twelve is rolled on a come-out roll, pass line bettor lose only half their wager and DP bettors win half of their wager

This brings the edge for both bets to within 3 basis points of zero, which is effectively zero

I don't to stray too far. I understand the PL DP flat still has the 1.4 edge. Playing true everywhere else, the person learning can understand a real game...they understand house edge lol

Quote: AlanMendelson

Make it tournament style. Everyone gets the same number of chips.
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Most of the time we we do. Each start with stack of black green red (2600) Dealer pays with their own and keeps all losing bets. 10 mim and 50 max first round. Each round max goes up. Not recommended for more then five players. Last Saturday we played with a bank with eight playing.

I prefer less than eight. My rig is perfect for five or six. I can accommodate eight but that many slows the game down too much for me.