multipointdays
multipointdays
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December 5th, 2012 at 10:16:56 AM permalink
I'm wondering about the definition re: HouseEdge on Don't Pass (with regards to per bet resolved HE 1.40% -- versus -- per roll HE 0.40%). Can someone please idiot proof this definition for me?

My local shop has video craps with point multiplier days that are +1.00 %, so I want to confirm if I'm only playing the don't pass, taking full odds, then adding in Don't come each time, taking full odds on those), will that put the game positive?

Is it: (HE 0.4% playing this way) + (1% points for cash back) = +0.6 to player

or is it: (HE 1.4% playing this way) + (1% points for cash back) = -0.4 to player

There is no other game in house that is above 99% for any advantage play, as VP and Video Blackjack are excluded.

Thank you for advice.
AcesAndEights
AcesAndEights
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December 5th, 2012 at 10:56:28 AM permalink
Quote: multipointdays

Is it: (HE 0.4% playing this way) + (1% points for cash back) = +0.6 to player

or is it: (HE 1.4% playing this way) + (1% points for cash back) = -0.4 to player


That is the real question, which likely no one here will be able to answer (unless you mention the specific casino and someone is familiar with their procedures).

In general, at traditional craps, the casino will NOT rate your odds bets for comp purposes. I have heard that a lot of e-craps machines will rate ALL money in action, but limit odds to 2x or something small, and also many casinos do NOT extend promotions (like your +1% promo) to the craps machines. If I remember correctly, the bubble craps machines at M-Life properties don't generate ANY comps at all...but I could be mistaken on that.

So really, you should just ask. Or better yet, experiment and see, because if you ask and they overlooked the +EV opportunity, they will likely remove it.
"So drink gamble eat f***, because one day you will be dust." -ontariodealer
jc2286
jc2286
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December 5th, 2012 at 11:11:35 AM permalink
Every machine I've seen counts the bets per resolution. So it would be 1.36%. It would only be +EV if some amount of odds were counted as well.

And do NOT ask them, in case it is a +EV opportunity that they overlooked. Figure it out yourself through trial and error to see if odds count or not. Should be quick and easy to do if you know the comp rate at the machine ($xxx coin-in per point).
MathExtremist
MathExtremist
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December 5th, 2012 at 2:57:22 PM permalink
The easy way to answer that question is to put your card in, make a $1 bet, and count the rolls. See if you get $1 worth of loyalty points vs. $1 x # rolls worth of loyalty points. I'm guessing it's the former.

But if you get credit for odds handle, you're still ahead. Laying even 2x odds on don't pass has a total edge under 0.5%, so if you're getting +1% back you're ahead by half a point without doing any thinking. Bet max and have a few drinks.

I'd expect either (a) no comp credit at all, period, or (b) comp credit only for line bets, not odds. In that case, it's your second scenario above.
"In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice." -- Girolamo Cardano, 1563
ahiromu
ahiromu
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December 5th, 2012 at 4:15:04 PM permalink
Quote: jc2286

Every machine I've seen counts the bets per resolution. So it would be 1.36%. It would only be +EV if some amount of odds were counted as well.



Maryland Live is per resolution.
Its - Possessive; It's - "It is" / "It has"; There - Location; Their - Possessive; They're - "They are"
odiousgambit
odiousgambit
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December 6th, 2012 at 12:24:33 AM permalink
Quote: ahiromu

Maryland Live is per resolution.



Ha! I should have bet somebody that a trip to that outfit was coming. How has it gone so far [or have I missed your report?]

Initially they were generous with free play, allowing me to claim to be an AP [g]. Did you get in on any of that?
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!” She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
multipointdays
multipointdays
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December 7th, 2012 at 5:22:10 AM permalink
Thanks for all the replies. I'll check out the casino rating system and post back here later.
ahiromu
ahiromu
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December 7th, 2012 at 6:55:03 AM permalink
Quote: odiousgambit

Ha! I should have bet somebody that a trip to that outfit was coming. How has it gone so far [or have I missed your report?]

Initially they were generous with free play, allowing me to claim to be an AP [g]. Did you get in on any of that?



I didn't do any math or play for a significant amount of time (Hit and run sessions) - I have yet to receive anything. They have those little monitors so you can see when your points go up, I noticed my points going up per resolution. Admittedly though, I never checked to see if I received more points for longer rolls and the such.

Oh I never wrote a report, was bored one day and drove 45 minutes to play there for like 20.
Its - Possessive; It's - "It is" / "It has"; There - Location; Their - Possessive; They're - "They are"
teddys
teddys
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December 8th, 2012 at 12:22:03 PM permalink
If you play the right side and take 3x4x5x odds, the house edge will be 0.34% on your total action. With a 1.00% multiplier, you'll be playing with a 0.66% advantage, which is nice when you can get a lot of money in play. Be prepared for a lot of variance. I've done similar plays on machines here in Vegas, but they are rare to find (most machines don't give points).

If you can play don't pass and they give points for the odds, you should play that as you'll earn more.
"Dice, verily, are armed with goads and driving-hooks, deceiving and tormenting, causing grievous woe." -Rig Veda 10.34.4
multipointdays
multipointdays
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December 9th, 2012 at 8:33:29 AM permalink
The test shows that only line bets receive loyalty points (at .1% rate) for initial bet only, not earning loyalty points per roll. Odds bets do not receive loyalty points.

On the 10x points days the e-craps do receive the 10x rate (but yes, VP is excluded).

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