Dice Setters R>I>P>

in April 2011, in a tacit admission that he had been wrong in believing casino craps could be legitimately beaten, Wong removed craps from the list of "Beatable Casino Games" on his popular BJ21.com website, and also removed the "Craps" discussion page from his site, as well (since restored as primarily an historical archive). In addition, a few months later, in October 2011, in an interview on Bob Dancer's popular KLAV radio program, "Gambling With an Edge," Wong admitted that, rather than craps, "if you want to get serious about making money from casinos ... get into blackjack or get into video poker or get into poker." That pretty much says it all.

Quote: buzzpaff

Bob Dancer's popular KLAV radio program, "Gambling With an Edge,"

Hey! Aren't there two hosts on that show?

Yeah, but the other guy is a know-it-all !

I am glad to hear that Wong retracted his statement about craps being beatable. However, does anyone feel that it is a little strange that Wong starts of saying one thing, sells a lot of books and makes quite a bit of money, and then changes his mind?

What if Wong says, "I have this winning strategy for beating Slot Machines!" He then sells a lot of books, makes his cash, and then a few years later says, "Oh... I guess I was wrong... Sorry folks."

I wish Wong had spent more time gathering statistical data in the first place instead of this flip flopping.

Quote: Wizard

Hey! Aren't there two hosts on that show?

You're right.

Buzz should have given proper credit to Richard Munchkin, since he was the co-host at the time.

Quote: Juyemura

I am glad to hear that Wong retracted his statement about craps being beatable. However, does anyone feel that it is a little strange that Wong starts of saying one thing, sells a lot of books and makes quite a bit of money, and then changes his mind?

What if Wong says, "I have this winning strategy for beating Slot Machines!" He then sells a lot of books, makes his cash, and then a few years later says, "Oh... I guess I was wrong... Sorry folks."

I wish Wong had spent more time gathering statistical data in the first place instead of this flip flopping.

It's not like someone's never been wrong but made lots of money before admitting it:
http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Harold-Camping-flabbergasted-rapture-a-no-show-2370758.php

" I wish Wong had spent more time gathering statistical data in the first place instead of this flip flopping. "

I give the man credit for admitting he was wrong . Damn few EXPERTS do that !

Quote: Juyemura

I am glad to hear that Wong retracted his statement about craps being beatable. However, does anyone feel that it is a little strange that Wong starts of saying one thing, sells a lot of books and makes quite a bit of money, and then changes his mind?

What if Wong says, "I have this winning strategy for beating Slot Machines!" He then sells a lot of books, makes his cash, and then a few years later says, "Oh... I guess I was wrong... Sorry folks."

I wish Wong had spent more time gathering statistical data in the first place instead of this flip flopping.

I agree - although, Stanford seems to be a standup guy in admitting his mistake - HOWEVER, what would be even more standup would be for him to either (a) refund the money to those people who purchased his book, (b) offer some sort of credit for future purchases or (c) give a free bj21.com membership
I know none of those will likely occur but it would go a long way towards redemption and give future purchasers a good feeling knowing he really stands by his tomes.

Quote: DJTeddyBear

You're right.

Buzz should have given proper credit to Richard Munchkin, since he was the co-host at the time.

Thanks Teddy. I was afraid a secret administrator would give me a suspension.

Quote: buzzpaff

in April 2011, in a tacit admission that he had been wrong in believing casino craps could be legitimately beaten, Wong removed craps from the list of "Beatable Casino Games" on his popular BJ21.com website, and also removed the "Craps" discussion page from his site, as well

Its okay. You can all still attend my Dice Control seminars and learn the real truth behind this so-called tacit admission. Its all a conspiracy in truth the casino execs are running scared and alot went on behind the scenes.

So hurry, hurry,,, step right up and buy a space in my Seminar before its too late. Send your checks to Hucksterism Continues.

I know fleastiff to be legitimate. Other seminars are cash only. He will accept checks !

I have a secret message from Wong, sent only to me, that says the day that dice-setting no longer works will be the end of the world within a few months.... so we have a few more days... only Wong and me know how many. The rest of you keep rolling dice and buying books.

If you're serious about making money from casinos, play poker, or maybe sports book. Blackjack and video poker, when you start to win, the casino has every incentive to stop you, which you can see in booting counters, CFMs, changing pay tables, etc. Poker, they don't care. Sports book, the bookmakers do care, but like your fellow players in poker, there's only so much they can do - then again, if it weren't working out for them, it wouldn't be there, so who knows?

The Oxford English Dictionary defines 'random' as "Having no definite aim or purpose; not sent or guided in a particular direction; made, done, occurring, etc., without method or conscious choice; haphazard." This concept of randomness suggests a non-order or non-coherence in a sequence of symbols or steps, such that there is no intelligible pattern or combination.

People commonly mistake a random roll with CHAOS.

NO ROLL IS RANDOM. BY THE LAWS OF PHYSICS, dice too have to adhere to the forces on this planet...

Every throw even for random shooters has an affect on the outcome. TO say that even a random roller when throwing dice doesn't put his spin on it, or twist in his wrist, or a sutble flick, whatever they do bottom line they are influecing the outcome. When you physically throw the dice you are throwing them with a hope of a certain number...at least I HOPE YOU ARE. THIS ALONE is an act of DICE CONTROL/INFLUENCE. Because you are part of the equation. So yes even BuzzPaff is an influencer. I don't see why there is anything wrong with looking at it from this point of view... Of course, no one is going to be making a living throwing dice. But there is nothing random about throwing dice. Once those dice hit the back wall they have a predetermined path / outcome... So in closing we are all influencers/controllers at heart. Whether you like it or not.

Cheers!

I admit that for about a ten year period I tried and tried and tried and lost a lot of money trying to influence dice. I did have some big rolls but they were as much luck as anything else.

But damn't I did see two guys who knew what they were doing. And they weren't selling anything. One guy was a surgeon (MD) and he guided the dice like he was cutting around your heart muscle. And he won a lot of money on the two visits I played with him.

The other guy I know nothing about but his even, controlled throw went on for about 30 minutes and after coloring up he left and I never saw him again.

I'm not calling dice influencing impossible. I admit I can't do it. But as I've often said... there are lots of baseball pitchers but only one Sandy Koufax, lots of golfers but only one Tiger Woods, lots of quarterbacks but only one Dan Marino....

Alans got the point. When we hear about something astounding and what seems impossible we label it as unbelievable and disturbing. Instead of being creative we dig through our books in search of technical information such as equations, probabilities and so on... If that was how real mathematicians/scientists really thought well we wouldn't be where we are today. Some of you who are mathematicians on here are yes very good at regurgitating equations of actual genius' have already come up with these for you... Without their creativity you'd be nowhere...

It's easier for me to admit that Wong does not get to decide whether it is impossible or not to influence the dice just as much as Steve Forte is not the all deciding god in casino protection... Instead of shunning a theory we should be wrapping our heads into how create a conclusive study...

Quote: DJTeddyBear

Buzz should have given proper credit to Richard Munchkin, since he was the co-host at the time.

No he wasn't. That interview was on 3/22/12, when some other guy was co-host.

Quote: AlanMendelson

I admit that for about a ten year period I tried and tried and tried and lost a lot of money trying to influence dice. I did have some big rolls but they were as much luck as anything else.

It is good that you've admitted this to yourself. Many people seem to have luck from time to time but convince themselves that its "skill".

Quote: AlanMendelson

But damn't I did see two guys who knew what they were doing. And they weren't selling anything. One guy was a surgeon (MD) and he guided the dice like he was cutting around your heart muscle. And he won a lot of money on the two visits I played with him.

Should be easy to track him down and get more data. If his next two trips to Vegas were total wipeouts for him, you might change your opinion.

Alot of people speed but only a few do it with the precision of race car drivers, so I admit to the possibility of your theory that some very skillful people might exist. Consider target shooting. Alot of people hit the target but only a few are truly Olympic quality competitors. So maybe somewhere there is some poor guy who should buy a seminar, but most such purchasers are simply suckers. So its impossible to exclude the possibility of the exceptionally skilled. Somewhere there just may indeed be a man who does it standing up in a hammock and does it well.

I can't say for certain that dice setting is impossible, but I know that there are no verified cases, and more importantly, that if it were possible, the casinos would treat it at best like card counting, or they might have a case to consider it outright cheating, since dice are expected to be random. If it should prove a hard skill to learn, moving the dice on every come-out roll and disallowing raising your bets on your own shoot would be enough to preserve the house edge, if not, they might have to take more drastic measures... the fact that I'm not aware of anyone taking such measures tells me that if it's possible, far fewer people have figured it out than claim to.

I know the doctor very well. After our first meeting at Caesars we coordinated another trip to hook up. He shot well during both.

Ironically our second meeting at Caesars was on a crowded Saturday night and the only table open was a $100 table... well out of my budget. And yes, I had the roll of a lifetime with money only on the passline and NO odds. Number after number, and just a couple of passes. I could've been rich. LOL

The Doc also did well as you can imagine.

But this goes back more than five years ago, and we haven't met up since. He lives quite a distance away and told me he plays in other states.

I have pretty much scaled back my craps play. I simply got tired of losing. Video poker and live poker are more appealing to me now.

Quote: nickolay411

When you physically throw the dice you are throwing them with a hope of a certain number...at least I HOPE YOU ARE. THIS ALONE is an act of DICE CONTROL/INFLUENCE. Because you are part of the equation. So yes even BuzzPaff is an influencer.

Interesting.

Every shooter influences the dice to some degree.

But that influence, even by practiced dice shooters, cannot be relied upon to be accurate, so the results remain random.

Quote: Wizard

No he wasn't. That interview was on 3/22/12, when some other guy was co-host.

Oops. I guess I didn't see that in the listing, and saw the guest's prior appearance. My bad.

I can't comment specifically on the existence of "Dice Setters" but I have played with some very "lucky" shooters in the past and made some good money when they rolled. Conversely, I have put too much faith on some of the same "lucky" shooters and had my bankroll blown to smithereens when they have off-days.

In the past few weeks....

I have seen "lucky" shooters that had back-to-back 45 minute rolls become "Point Established, 7-out (PSO) magnets the next time session I played with them.

I saw a "horrible" shooter who was a "Point 7 Magnet" hit 9 points in a row.

I saw a "chicken feeder" with tremendous rhythm throwing hardways like they were on sale.

I played a session with a player who ALWAYS turned his bets off right before a "7" appeared on the very next roll, every single time during a 2 hour craps session..he must have been psychic.

------------------------------------------------------------

Craps is the most Jekyll and Hyde game ever!

Quote: nickolay411

NO ROLL IS RANDOM. BY THE LAWS OF PHYSICS, dice too have to adhere to the forces on this planet...

By that definition, nothing is or ever can be random because everything in the universe acts according to the laws of physics.

More to the point, things tend to move to a low energy state, too. So a pair of dice sitting on a table won't move of their own accord, as they already are at a low energy state. So picking them up and tossing them is a kind of influence.

Now, what would the effect be of colliding die A with die B on opposite trajectories at nearly the speed of light? They may yield a Wongon or a Shackleford's boson. For all we know, and according to the little-known superpip theory I just made up, they could even yield the ellusive Dancer fermion (thought to be extremely rare outside videopoker-based systems), and wouldn't that be exciting?

Alas, in order to test this we'd need to build an Extremely Large Gaming Collider, which perforce would span California, Nevada, Arizona and Utah, cost about $100 billion (or $6.2 trillion if you must factor in delays, cost overruns, environmental impact studies and lobbying to legalize gambling in Utah), and may produce a quantum green hole which would, if theory is right, suck all the money out of Macau and Singapore.

I began playing craps 5 years ago, ( 56 years old and a late bloomer ) and the first year I was a random tosser. Never really tossed longer that 4 or 5 times, hitting the point once in a blue moon. My craps experience was limited to my 2 or 3 Vegas trips per year.

Four years ago at Harrahs one afternoon, I was watching a fellow tosser set, and then toss. He was successful and I made a good amount of money from his toss. I asked him afterwards were he learned to shoot and he mentioned that throught the internet he came across a few books, tapes, etc. which he purchased and set him on his way.

That led me to my first purchase, the Parr Course for few hundred bucks. I then expanded and bought 4 different craps books, MP's, Scoblete's, Sharshooter and Charlie Westcott.

My next trip to Vegas, of course failed to do any type of setting due to being nervous and intimidated from the crew and the players around me. Basically I was in the whole for that trip from my tossing but had made a few dollars betting on others. Overall I was down close to a grand. My last night in Vegas, I was at the Venetian, in the hook next to the dealer and down to my last $100.00. It was 1am and my wife came to the table and said she is turning in, here is a $100.00 to give me a bit more time before calling it a night. Decided to try this 3V thing. I knew my strategy, from what I ascertained from the books and tapes was be conservative. You are playing for the long haul.

So its a passline bet, double odds and a comeout bet with double odds. Don't play the center and be conservative. The table was $10 and away I went. About 50 or so minutes later I sevened out. My $200 went to $1650. and I never increased my passline, double odds or made any hardway bets. Of course looking down the center of the table I all I did see was green and black on the center but being discipled never waived on my betting. I do remember hearing the stickman calling hard 6 and 8 several times back to back, but I stayed clear of the props as they are "loosers" per the books and tapes.

I then realized that maybe this 3V, dice setting thing may work.

Are all my hands and trips winners like this? Of course not. Have I taken classes in Vegas with the Dice Coach and Heavy's Axis program, Yes several times.

The last four years I am up at the end of the year with my craps play. Does it work for all, No. Do most believe that Dice influence works,No.

Do I care what others think about Dice Influence, No not really.

Playing craps is really a personal game. You play the way you want, win or lose and you had better be satisfied with the results. If you are not happy quit playing and go to something else. But, craps playing is an addiction and when you have found that it is a passion, you can't pass by a table when you plan a casino visit.

So, play craps the way you want and don't really care what the other guy does. Remember You do not have to bet on anyone at the table except yourself.


EagleDice

Eagle- glad it has worked for you so far. I am always willing to bet that dice influencers cannot turn the odds in their favor. How good do you think you have become? Make a claim and I will devise a bet that you can't achieve the results you say you can. For example, if you say I can cut 7's down from one in six to one in eight, I'll offer you a bet that you can't. Hope you can make it to Vegas for the October 17 - 21 get together. Continued good luck!

EagleDice,

Do you solely use the 3V Dice Set or do you change to the 2V Dice Set or some other Set when you are trying to hit the 4 or 10?

Quote: CrapsForever

EagleDice,

Do you solely use the 3V Dice Set or do you change to the 2V Dice Set or some other Set when you are trying to hit the 4 or 10?

When I toss I do a lot of single pitches and with the 3V, a lot of quick seven outs. I am now using the Hardway set 98% of the time. I practive at home using Bonetracker and my double pitch percentage is lower than random. By using the hardway set, it is easier for me to see what my dice are doing based on the results of my toss. I use the 6-1,6-1 axis, hard 8 on top,hard 4 facing. I also tend to do a lot of single dice off access.

This past year my live casino numbers tend to be 6 and 8, but depending on the day they do go away and the another series shows up. Its not unusual for me to hit a lot of across the board during a hand. I have not ventured into the 2V toss. Based on Bonetracker I probably have more success hitting the 4 or 10 with my hardway off axis than the 2V.

Last year I was having some difficulty ( cycles, or variance or just plain being off ) and was in Vegas for work and did a session with the Dice Coach. he gave me 2 sets to work on if the hardways is not working. The are a 5/9 set (2-4,3-1) and a 6/8 set (3-5,5-3). Both of these have worked well for me in live play. Earlier this year in Detroit (mgm) having a terrible morning, with 3 hands quickly ending. Switched to the 6/8 set and after 4 more hands recouped my am losses and was up about $125 for the day. Last year in Vegas, the hardway was off, so I switched to the 5/9 set which I used for the balance of my trip. Yes there were PSO hands and short rolls, but the trip started in the whole pretty well, and ended up only down a few hundred for the trip. So, these two sets I do practice a bit as backups but the Hardways is still the main set.

We all know that every craps hand is not a winner. For me the answer is find a table that suits my toss ( hard ) and a location (SL1 or SL2) that gives me a 50/50 chance to do ok. Truthfully, if I walk away with more than my buyin, its looking up to be a good day.

Eagledice

LoL..
"Dice Influence"
I can almost BET that none of these so-called "Dice Controllers" ever rolled close to a 2-hour hand (104 rolls to be exact), and I won't lie I WAS "rhythm rolling"...however, in the years after that, I haven't even gotten CLOSE to a hand that long and I've tried every KIND of set (however, I HAVE only played at JANugget, really)
This weekend at Silver Legacy...I was "rhythm rolling" and I was straight up PSO three times in a ROW! (didn't matter to me as I was doey/dont)...
But on the next time at bat, I simply picked them up, shook 'em and tossed them..guess what? I rolled 4 points...But then again, it was just a hot table over all that night...

Good Info, EagleDice!

Thanks!

Quote: SOOPOO

Eagle- glad it has worked for you so far. I am always willing to bet that dice influencers cannot turn the odds in their favor. How good do you think you have become? Make a claim and I will devise a bet that you can't achieve the results you say you can. For example, if you say I can cut 7's down from one in six to one in eight, I'll offer you a bet that you can't. Hope you can make it to Vegas for the October 17 - 21 get together. Continued good luck!

SOOPOO

One of the questions you raised is how good do I think I have become. I think my craps playing knowledge has increased tenfold. I am a better player from the standpoint of waiting, watching a table and always betting conservatively. I have spent countless hours insuring that I understand the game, the true odds payoffs and the probability of when a Seven should appear. One out of six or seven or eight does not mean that I get five free tosses every hand. A seven can show 10 times in a row or not for 40 times in a row. We all know that.

In regards to me making a bet of cutting down my seven exposure from 1 in 6 to 1 in 8. No one can make that kind of claim. Every hand is different. Sometimes the best toss you make is the perfect double pitch seven out, whereas the worst toss might be a back to back hard 8.

I know that my ability has increased in the past 4 years. I also know that I will have good and bad hands. I also know based on my practice ( recording in bonetracker) what my previlent numbers are based on a large number of practice tosses over thou
sands and thousands of tosses. This year, I have begun to record my "live casino" tosses and then compare them to my practice. Should I have done this 4 years ago. Yes, and why not? I was intimidated that the craps crew would say something and I was not fluid enough in recording and tossing at the same time. I spent a good part of last year practicing the recording and after putting it into live play, its now second nature.

My live casino hands ( 4 day trips around 210 tosses ) are beginning to mimic my practice results little bit now. The numbers that show up in practice are becoming close to the numbers I am hitting in live play. I am also logging the tables that I play at to look for variance. So after this year comes to an end and I have recorded 9,10 or 12 trips and hopefully 500 live casino tosses, I can really see what works for me.

Is it the fool proof method that Dice Influence works. In my mind it makes me more confident and as a result I am playing much better and am ahead financially in my craps play.

In regards to Octover in Vegas, I'm confused on that one.

Hope I answered your questions, if not just drop me another.


EagleDice

Eagle:

I like to throw the dice also.

I use the 3V to throw.

Do I win? Sometimes.

Do I Lose? Sometimes.

Does it make it more interesting for me?

Yes.

So, I go with that.

Am I an influencer? No.

If I COULD remove all the variables and have a consistent throw and landing and grip and set, then maybe, just maybe, since all the variables are reduced, then it might work. Even a pitcher in MLB throws a ball sometimes, right?

I am not that good.

SFB

removed
silly

Sally

I would never criticize anyone for setting and throwing dice their own particular way. If craps is truly a random game, then dice setting, dice influencing or any type of deliberate throw can't hurt. So why not try? I still try. It just doesn't hurt to try.

Quote: AlanMendelson

I would never criticize anyone for setting and throwing dice their own particular way.
If craps is truly a random game, then dice setting, dice influencing or any type of deliberate throw can't hurt.
So why not try? I still try. It just doesn't hurt to try.

The *hurt* is in slowing the game way down to having less rolls per hour vs us *chicken feeders* as I have been called.
I think that reason is why most casinos do not like dice setters.

Everyone was complaining that these setters were taking way too much time to roll the dice.
Even a supervisor came over after the Dealer asked the shooter to speed up the time in rolling the dice.
One shooter just ignored them
as if he was the only one at the table and the casino can not tell anyone that they are taking too much time to roll the dice.

I mean, 20 seconds to set the dice and another 10 to slowly pick them up and make a throwing motion?? I counted. That was a good average.

I even asked the Dealer after the dice setters had left, busted out BTW, why they take so long to roll the dice.
Don't know, the Dealer replied and that the casino does not like less rolls per hour
and the dice setters are the one's that slow the game down by having less rolls per hour.

So I asked him, do they win more playing that way?
Reply: No, they only think they do.

Quote: eagledice

In regards to me making a bet of cutting down my seven exposure from 1 in 6 to 1 in 8. No one can make that kind of claim.

My live casino hands ( 4 day trips around 210 tosses ) are beginning to mimic my practice results little bit now.

In regards to Octover in Vegas, I'm confused on that one.


EagleDice

Thanks for your thoughtful answer.
Some 'professional' dice setters make exactly that claim, that they can lower the likelihood of a seven versus all the other numbers.
210 tosses is way too low a sample size to make any conclusion with regards to dice setting.
I will be in Vegas October 17 -21, and if you were to be in town I'd love to watch you play, even if we don't have a wager on your abilities.

" Sometimes the best toss you make is the perfect double pitch seven out. "

I myself have mastered the '"Go shit in your hat " seven out !

Quote: buzzpaff

" I myself have mastered the '"Go shit in your hat " seven out !

Buzz...are you feeling okay?

Well, Can i ask a question now? Please.. Pretty Please ..

Have you received a book from Mister T. Dane.

And I promise to be good for at least a week , even if it hurts !

Quote: buzzpaff

Have you received a book from Mister T. Dane.

Yes! I was out of town for 10 days, but just got back, and there it was waiting for me. I have read only about 10 pages so far, which were a good introduction to surveilance. I'm hoping to get into the meat and potatoes soon.

Looking forward to a good review. THANKS !

Quote: mustangsally

The *hurt* is in slowing the game way down to having less rolls per hour...

I could possibly understand your complaint about fewer rolls per hour if you were to tell me that you had some sort of an advantage and each roll was giving you an edge or a profit.

But the game is craps. It is a negative expectation game. Each roll will cost you money. You will lose the more you play. In fact, your only hope for winning rests in two areas:

1. you'll get damn lucky
2. you'll find the miracle one-in-a-million dice influencer who really can do it

Otherwise, Sally, you're much better off taking your time, talking to the dealers, ordering drinks, chanting and praying for wins, and taking as much damn time as they will give you to set your dice.

Now, with that said, anyone who claims to be a dice influencer can set and throw their dice faster than you can pick em up, shake em and throw them so they bounce all over the table.

You "chicken feeders" take more time than a seasoned DI takes who knows what theyre doing. Please stop your holier than thou attitude. I haven't been here long but it really shows.

Quote: AlanMendelson

Now, with that said, anyone who claims to be a dice influencer can set and throw their dice faster than you can pick em up, shake em and throw them so they bounce all over the table. You "chicken feeders" take more time than a seasoned DI takes who knows what theyre doing.

I will have to second Alan's comments above regarding the speed a seasoned DI takes to set and shoot the Dice. I have played with a few "lucky" shooters in my time and the real bonafide shooters are the quickest shooters on the table. The most impressive thing I like about lucky shooters is the discipline of making money on their roll and disappearing. Additionally, they leave the Casino quickly when their shot is off. Either way, my experience is "lucky" shooters are never in a Casino for long periods of time.

Played with one "lucky" shooter recently...mentioned he was throwing a specific number (Not the 6 or 8) during his practice on his Craps rig at home that morning. He threw the same number an insane amount of times during our Craps session in the Casino. Some call it coincidence, I don't.......

In my opinion, a big weakness of Craps bettors is not taking advantage of short term anamolies during their Craps session. Always thinking long term can have disastrous results in your short term play. What's the point of solely placing the 6 and 8 if a specific shooter is consistently hitting another place number almost every time he shoots the Dice during a specific session?

Quote: CrapsForever

In my opinion, a big weakness of Craps bettors is not taking advantage of short term anamolies during their Craps session. Always thinking long term can have disastrous results in your short term play. What's the point of solely placing the 6 and 8 if a specific shooter is consistently hitting another place number almost every time he shoots the Dice during a specific session?

CF, I have to agree with you on this one. I have noticed that Hollywood, PA seems to have a larger than normal distribution of outside numbers(2,3,4,11,12) on many of my sessions. I don't like buying the 4/10 when the vig is paid up front, but after seeing the numbers repeatedly showing up, I end up buying them anyway. And I can definitely state that I am ahead on my buys of the 4/10. As I related in my blog, at one point in my last session, my buddy hit both the 4 and 10 six times EACH, on one of his rolls! So that is 12 times a 4 or 10 hit in a 30-40 rolls (He only made 3 points and I am certain his turn did not last more than 20 minutes. Pretty sure that falls quite a ways from the expected distribution.
On one of my throws, I threw the 3-1 combination on 3 straight rolls. Means nothing, but is still interesting.

I refuse to bet the horn though, so instead I will throw an occasional bet on the field (2x -2 & 12), and I am probably up on that bet too, although I am not as certain about this bet as I am about the 4/10.

Quote: RaleighCraps

CF, I have to agree with you on this one. I have noticed that Hollywood, PA seems to have a larger than normal distribution of outside numbers(2,3,4,11,12) on many of my sessions.

"seems"?
Where is your proof? or is it only when you play and deal and not at other times.
You should get a group of players and big money and ride out this "seems" phenomenon.

Quote: RaleighCraps

I don't like buying the 4/10 when the vig is paid up front, but after seeing the numbers repeatedly showing up, I end up buying them anyway. And I can definitely state that I am ahead on my buys of the 4/10.

Where is the proof? The actual dice rolls and your bet list.
This is easy to track when playing.

Quote: RaleighCraps

As I related in my blog, at one point in my last session, my buddy hit both the 4 and 10 six times EACH, on one of his rolls! So that is 12 times a 4 or 10 hit in a 30-40 rolls (He only made 3 points and I am certain his turn did not last more than 20 minutes.
Pretty sure that falls quite a ways from the expected distribution.

Sure it is but How far away? And does "quite a ways" mean it rarely happens?
The 4&10 roll as often as the 7, or even the Horns.
In 36 rolls the average is 6 with a standard deviation of 2.33.
Looks to be right within the 3SD range to me. Right? 13 on the high side.
For you math ones, 1 in 89.9 (sets of 36 rolls) on average has 12 or more 4s and 10s.
12 or more winner 4 and 10s before a 7 is only 1 in 4,096.
Hits more often than the 5 and 6 point fire bet (1 in 4727. rolls), with a lower HE.
Play long enough or deal long enough, you will see it. Most pay no attention unless they hit in streaks. Streaks really catch players eyes.

I have proof of seeing 15 4s and 10s in exactly 36 rolls. I made great $$$ on that roll. The point was 6 and 8 during that run. They only hit twice.

That should be way outside expectation, but it happens.

And you remember, without any proof, that each # hit exactly 6 times in those 30 to 40 rolls. It was not exactly 35 rolls? or 38 rolls?

Quote: RaleighCraps

On one of my throws, I threw the 3-1 combination on 3 straight rolls. Means nothing, but is still interesting.

sounds like it should mean everything. After the first roll, bet the 3-1. After if hits, press, it hit again, press it missed. You have a profit, you say to play for the short run.
That will do it.

Quote: RaleighCraps

I refuse to bet the horn though, so instead I will throw an occasional bet on the field (2x -2 & 12), and I am probably up on that bet too, although I am not as certain about this bet as I am about the 4/10.

"probably up" and "I am not as certain"
Great!
Certain by our memory with nothing to back up the claims.

Another blocked poster.
In the boat

Quote: 7craps

"seems"?
Where is your proof? or is it only when you play and deal and not at other times.
You should get a group of players and big money and ride out this "seems" phenomenon.
Where is the proof? The actual dice rolls and your bet list.
This is easy to track when playing.

Quote: RaleighCraps

As I related in my blog, at one point in my last session, my buddy hit both the 4 and 10 six times EACH, on one of his rolls! So that is 12 times a 4 or 10 hit in a 30-40 rolls (He only made 3 points and I am certain his turn did not last more than 20 minutes.
Pretty sure that falls quite a ways from the expected distribution.

Sure it is but How far away? And does "quite a ways" mean it rarely happens?
The 4&10 roll as often as the 7, or even the Horns.
In 36 rolls the average is 6 with a standard deviation of 2.33.
Looks to be right within the 3SD range to me. Right? 13 on the high side.
I have proof of seeing 15 4s and 10s in exactly 36 rolls. I made great $$$ on that roll. The point was 6 and 8 during that run. They only hit twice.

That should be way outside expectation, but it happens.

And you remember, without any proof, that each # hit exactly 6 times in those 30 to 40 rolls. It was not exactly 35 rolls? or 38 rolls?
sounds like it should mean everything. After the first roll, bet the 3-1. After if hits, press, it hit again, press it missed. You have a profit, you say to play for the short run.
That will do it.

"probably up" and "I am not as certain"
Great!
Certain by our memory with nothing to back up the claims.

Another blocked poster.
In the boat

Is someone having a bad day?

I'll respond to the only drivel in the post that is worthy of a response,

Quote: 7craps

And you remember, without any proof, that each # hit exactly 6 times in those 30 to 40 rolls. It was not exactly 35 rolls? or 38 rolls?

What proof would you like that I I know for a fact it was 6 hits on each number?
I know because I was tracking the 4's and 10's. We (my buddy the shooter, myself, the stick, and the base dealer) had all been talking about it, BEFORE he started rolling. I know it was six times each, and they all agreed with that count as well. Why was I tracking it? Because I was seriously considering putting a $500 buy 4 on the table, pressing to $1000, taking 2 hits, and pulling it down, for a $4,875 win. I was tracking how many times would that bet have actually worked, and how many times, it would have cost me $525, or $75, or, won me $875.

What does it all mean? Not a damn thing

Quote: RaleighCraps

As I related in my blog, at one point in my last session, my buddy hit both the 4 and 10 six times EACH, on one of his rolls! So that is 12 times a 4 or 10 hit in a 30-40 rolls (He only made 3 points and I am certain his turn did not last more than 20 minutes. Pretty sure that falls quite a ways from the expected distribution.
On one of my throws, I threw the 3-1 combination on 3 straight rolls. Means nothing, but is still interesting.

I would love to see that same sequence of rolls when I am doing my "power press the 4 & 10" method at one of the no-vig tables in New Mexico or Michigan.