Surrender Hard/Soft 17?

I tried the search function and didn't come up with much in the way of what I was trying to ask so...

What would a TC have to be in order to legitimately surrender on hard or soft 17 v. faces? I live in a place where they pay the casino staff bananas so, therefore, one gets monkeys to "watch" tables. There is little to no fear of actually being caught so I get to be a little aggressive but can't find anything on this forum that would answer the question.

Same with 88 v. face.

Thanks!

Quote: GoNavyBeatArmy

I tried the search function and didn't come up with much in the way of what I was trying to ask so...

What would a TC have to be in order to legitimately surrender on hard or soft 17 v. faces? I live in a place where they pay the casino staff bananas so, therefore, one gets monkeys to "watch" tables. There is little to no fear of actually being caught so I get to be a little aggressive but can't find anything on this forum that would answer the question.

Same with 88 v. face.

Thanks!

Have you searched the BJ literature? I would imagine you could find something like this in Blackjack Attack. I have the book at home but haven't finished it yet.

There aren't a ton of pro/advanced counters on this forum, to be honest. A few and then a lot of amateurs/hobbyists. I would try the free board at bj21.com if you're not a green chipper.

I would late surrender 88 v. face at a hilo TC of +2. For a shoe game, I think the TC hardly ever gets high enough to late surrender 17 v. faces, much less soft 17 v. faces. (I would guess that the index for late surrender hard 17 v. face would be about 12!)

Quote: GoNavyBeatArmy

I tried the search function and didn't come up with much in the way of what I was trying to ask so...

What would a TC have to be in order to legitimately surrender on hard or soft 17 v. faces?
...
Same with 88 v. face.

If you're using High-Low or halves you'll find your answers in Wong's Professional Blackjack, table 38. The book can be downloaded for immediate use on an E-reader.

As for surrendering soft 17: let's not surrender that hand. Let's us hit that hand. Curious related point is that surrendering hard 17 is basic strategy against a dealer ace in a hit-17 game.

You sound like you're a new-ish card counter. Good for you for asking questions online. It's a great way to learn. Don't be shy. As a general point your energy should mostly go toward implementing a very large bet spread. That's how you get money in most games. Obscure playing deviations add very, very little and are not important even for the typical professional player.

Quote: Josh

If you're using High-Low or halves you'll find your answers in Wong's Professional Blackjack, table 38. The book can be downloaded for immediate use on an E-reader.

As for surrendering soft 17: let's not surrender that hand. Let's us hit that hand. Curious related point is that surrendering hard 17 is basic strategy against a dealer ace in a hit-17 game.

You sound like you're a new-ish card counter. Good for you for asking questions online. It's a great way to learn. Don't be shy. As a general point your energy should mostly go toward implementing a very large bet spread. That's how you get money in most games. Obscure playing deviations add very, very little and are not important even for the typical professional player.

+infinity

Yes, new-ish. MANY years of industry and finally figured that if I've spent so much time in casinos, why do I not play for money instead of fun? Plus half the fun is watching ploppies (love that word) bitch about me hitting my twelves against twos and threes (or not, depending on count) and complain that it ruins the shoe or that I took a bust card. Yet, I'm the one with chips two hours later without hitting my wallet for the $300 more they've put down. :)

Right now I'm using a 1-10 spread with the occasional hitch up to 1-15. Made the mistake last night of taking a Mike McD shot with some profit and getting my low bankroll ass handed to me. Lesson clearly and resoundingly learned. I play perfect basic and most of the I18 that I can remember off hand.

To the previous post, I'm not a green chipper, no. That was the mistake last night. All replies much appreciated, thanks.

Quote: GoNavyBeatArmy

To the previous post, I'm not a green chipper, no. That was the mistake last night. All replies much appreciated, thanks.

Actually I wasn't referring to your betting level by that, but that there is a message board over at bj21.com called "Green Chip" which costs $15 every 3 months and is frequented by a lot of very experienced card counters and some pros. Stanford Wong posts occasionally and Don Schlesinger is a fixture, so it can be a very valuable resource, although daunting at first.

If you're betting red chips at 1-10 it's probably not worth it, but if you move up to anything higher the advice and expertise you can get there, and the wealth of information in the archives, is well worth the subscription cost. The software is ancient (WebBBS), but what are you gonna do...hopefully they'll come out of the dark ages sooner rather than later.