gambler
gambler
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July 16th, 2011 at 6:03:11 PM permalink
I have a confession to make: I have not mastered basic strategy in blackjack

My favorite casino game right now is craps, and the only bet that I make is the passline (or don't pass) with full odds, and the come (or don't come) with full odds. I also play baccarat, since it is relaxing and fun. I only like to make bets where the house edge is relatively low, so I can get the most out of my action.

I sometimes play blackjack, as well as other table games, but I treat my play on them as fun outings and don't make a ton of large bets on them. I guess you could consider me to be like one of thousands of gamblers who understand in general how to play blackjack, but I know that the house edge can get rather high without optimal play. I have just never taken the time to master basic strategy and think that maybe I will do so before I go to Las Vegas next.

So I have a couple of questions for the forum:

1. What is the best way to master basic strategy for blackjack? Should I really sit there with a strategy card?

2. I understand that the basics of card counting is that you bet more when you have a good "count" and that you bet less when the count is bad. How much of a spread does it take to reduce the house edge? For example, if my normal bet is $500 and I bet $1,000 when the count is good, does that make a big difference? Or does it take a much large spread? Just curious.

3. What is the average house advantage in blackjack for players who do not play basic strategy? Two percent? Three percent? Higher?

Thanks for the advice and input.
Nareed
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July 16th, 2011 at 6:10:36 PM permalink
Quote: gambler

1. What is the best way to master basic strategy for blackjack? Should I really sit there with a strategy card?



I don't play BJ, so I'm not talking from experience, but common sense suggests you should practice basic strategy with a card and computer program, or online, or with real cards, at home for some time and you'll get used to recognizing the plays to make.
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
timberjim
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July 16th, 2011 at 6:12:48 PM permalink
Go to the Wizards site and play the tutorial that prompts you when you make the incorrect move. It was very helpful in teaching me to be confident while playing BJ and using sound basic strategy.

Next comes learning to count.
gambler
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July 16th, 2011 at 6:26:58 PM permalink
Maybe I should explain further:

I do know how to play blackjack relatively well. However, I do not know every single situation when you are supposed to surrender, or double down, or split. I guess you could say that I play blackjack "above average", but I know that every mistake equals a larger house advantage and that I am losing more money then I optimally could lose.

I think it is the fear of making mistakes that makes me not play blackjack.

That's why I like craps so much. I know if I make a passline (or come) bet and put full odds behind it, I am making the best possible bet that I can make for that game. It doesn't matter if I am tired or sleepy, there is nothing I can screw up to change the house advantage (provided I only make those bets and don't throw out a hardway bet cause the stickman told me so).
Face
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Face
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July 16th, 2011 at 6:28:27 PM permalink
I'll take a shot at this....

1a) Flash cards. Write each player hand on the front and the rule on the back. Tedious and boring sometimes, but our whole staff finds this the easiest way to remember. Just remember to shuffle em up, otherwise you don't "learn", you just memorize the order.
1b) Yes. Just make sure you have the card that reflects the rules for the particular game you're playing. I mean....Imagine you're playing a game, any game, and it's at a 1.5-2.0% advantage. If you could place a magic card on the table that instantly made it a 0.5% game, wouldn't you?

2.) Short answer is 1 unit. Any increase in wager will increase your advantage when the cards are good. 1 unit, though, isn't enough to play at an advantage, rather just a lesser disadvantage. I reckon the play to maximize the advantage would be to spread between min and max bets ($5 to $1,000, for example) The catch is that wager fluctuations such as this are the number one sign of possible counting, and it's very, very easy to detect. The worst excuse of protection personnel can tell when a bet goes from $5 to $500. That being said, I guess it's up to you. If you just want to take joy in counting properly and having something to show for it, a $5-$20 spread should suffice. If you planned on actually making a big time play and walking out with full pockets, a 20x spread is probably needed, at minimum.

3.) Depends on the mistake. As other threads have pointed out, standing Player 16 v Dealer 10 is not the correct play, but the damage done is nearly insignificant. Other mistakes carry much more weight, say, hitting Player Ace vs Dealer Six. In order to answer the question, it must be determined what mistakes you are making. In either case, ALL mistakes can be erased with this magic card spoken of earlier. Pretty sure they're only $1 at the gift shop, and that's quite cheap for magic ;)
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FleaStiff
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July 16th, 2011 at 7:33:49 PM permalink
> What is the best way to master basic strategy for blackjack?
Start out with ultimate Basic Strategy such as set forth at WOO and Easy.Vegas: the Easy.Vegas three rules that covers 80 percent of hands will be a good start point.

> Should I really sit there with a strategy card?
No. Have it in your head and have practiced at these online drill sites that throw things at you and give you a six second response time.

> How much of a spread does it take to reduce the house edge?
You might recall that the "practice run" by the MIT team resulted in major losses for the card counters. So it seems that having a half of one percent edge over the house still can result in losses.

>What is the average house advantage in blackjack for players who do not play basic strategy?
Well, alcohol plays a role too as does fatigue, etc.
Last edited by: unnamed administrator on Aug 19, 2019
teddys
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July 18th, 2011 at 8:57:18 AM permalink
Sit there with a basic strategy card at the low limit Shufflemaster video blackjack machines. No dealers to contend with, and no players to make mad because each hand is dealt from a separate shoe. Playing for real money helps you pay attention. That's how I cut my teeth.
"Dice, verily, are armed with goads and driving-hooks, deceiving and tormenting, causing grievous woe." -Rig Veda 10.34.4
odiousgambit
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July 18th, 2011 at 9:40:09 AM permalink
Yes, the WoO game does give you a pop-up letting you know when you goof, it's been good for me.

I have memorized all plays except I don't have the splits and softs down well enough. I made a strategy card that only has splits and softs and use that. It helps not to have to look at other decisions, only these once in a while.
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!”   She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
DonPedro
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July 18th, 2011 at 10:36:37 AM permalink
I started out playing online w/ a BS card.

Flashcards, helped

Dealt to myself(3-4 hands at a time )

Very easy to learn BS once you group the similar plays,i.e:

2's/3's- split vs 2-7
4's split vs 5/6
6's split vs 2-6
7's split vs 2-7
A's/8's always
5's/10's never

A2/3- double vs 5/6
A4/A5- double vs 4-6
A/6- double vs 3-6
A/7- double vs 3-6 ( stand vs 2,7,8)
A/8- double vs 6

Just take some time playing at home/online and you will have it in no time.

I am somewhat surprised as to how many players have never taken the time to learn BS.

Good Luck !!
" If I had the money and the drinking capacity, I'd probably live at a blackjak table and let my life go to hell." Don Pedro
buzzpaff
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July 18th, 2011 at 10:38:44 AM permalink
I am even more surprised by how many players think they know basic strategy, but their play show's they don't.
dm
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July 18th, 2011 at 10:39:40 AM permalink
Quote: gambler

I have a confession to make: I have not mastered basic strategy in blackjack

My favorite casino game right now is craps, and the only bet that I make is the passline (or don't pass) with full odds, and the come (or don't come) with full odds. I also play baccarat, since it is relaxing and fun. I only like to make bets where the house edge is relatively low, so I can get the most out of my action.

I sometimes play blackjack, as well as other table games, but I treat my play on them as fun outings and don't make a ton of large bets on them. I guess you could consider me to be like one of thousands of gamblers who understand in general how to play blackjack, but I know that the house edge can get rather high without optimal play. I have just never taken the time to master basic strategy and think that maybe I will do so before I go to Las Vegas next.

So I have a couple of questions for the forum:

1. What is the best way to master basic strategy for blackjack? Should I really sit there with a strategy card?

2. I understand that the basics of card counting is that you bet more when you have a good "count" and that you bet less when the count is bad. How much of a spread does it take to reduce the house edge? For example, if my normal bet is $500 and I bet $1,000 when the count is good, does that make a big difference? Or does it take a much large spread? Just curious.

3. What is the average house advantage in blackjack for players who do not play basic strategy? Two percent? Three percent? Higher?

Thanks for the advice and input.







YES, you should really sit there with a color strategy card from WOO. And you will get to tell lots of people where you got it.
dlevinelaw
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July 18th, 2011 at 10:44:15 AM permalink
I saw a girl advertise the wizard's site at Seminole coconut creek in Florida. She had a keychain with Spanish 21 and blackjack on it, and would consult it each hand. She would also take insurance every time and never hit a soft 18. Weird.
ThatDonGuy
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July 18th, 2011 at 10:53:21 AM permalink
Quote: DonPedro

Very easy to learn BS once you group the similar plays,i.e:

2's/3's- split vs 2-7
4's split vs 5/6
6's split vs 2-6
7's split vs 2-7
A's/8's always
5's/10's never

A2/3- double vs 5/6
A4/A5- double vs 4-6
A/6- double vs 3-6
A/7- double vs 3-6 ( stand vs 2,7,8)
A/8- double vs 6


I have found that basic strategy changes depending on (a) whether or not it is a 3-deck or larger game, and (b) whether or not the dealer hits soft 17. However, my basic strategy seems to be slightly different from yours:

In all cases:
Don't split 6s with a 2 showing
You left out 9s - split with anything except an Ace, 7, or 10 showing

In a "dealer hits on soft 17" game:
Double A/7 with a 2 showing

In a "dealer stands on soft 17" game:
Don't double A/2 or A/8
Don't double 11 with an Ace showing (yes, that does sound crazy, doesn't it?)

In a 3-deck or larger game:
Don't double A2 with a 5 showing (just a 6)
Hit a hard 16 with a 10 showing
seviay
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July 18th, 2011 at 10:59:03 AM permalink
The answer may depend on how your brain functions, or how you're "wired" so to speak. Some people may be able to have a photographic memory of a strategy card so they wouldn't have to learn or study much, just be able to access the picture when any given hand is played. I think if you take the time to look at a basic strategy card, you'll begin to notice rather intuitive patterns and rules that will cut down on your need to memorize every single scenario.

My advice would be to figure out how you think and how you learn and approach it from that perspective. If it takes flashcards, do that. If you just need to study and study and study some more until it is ingrained in your brain, do that. I think with enough time, a vast majority of the decisions become intuitive, especially to someone who is already very familiar with the game. Once you feel fairly confident in your abilities, play the Wiz's trainer, as others have suggested. That way you will begin to notice the hands/situations that you need to improve upon.
DonPedro
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July 18th, 2011 at 11:02:55 AM permalink
You are right on all accounts ThatDonGuy !!!

Games that I play are 2-6 D, H17

Good points and well said !
" If I had the money and the drinking capacity, I'd probably live at a blackjak table and let my life go to hell." Don Pedro
JuniorWiz
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July 18th, 2011 at 3:07:34 PM permalink
What does this mean?: hitting Player Ace vs Dealer Six

2nd sentence paragraph 3
Face
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July 18th, 2011 at 3:23:36 PM permalink
Quote: JuniorWiz

What does this mean?: hitting Player Ace vs Dealer Six

2nd sentence paragraph 3



Sorry. "Player Ace" is our term for a two card hand totaling 11, "our" meaning the crew I work with. Could be 9,2 / 8,3 / 7,4.... it's not a proper term, nor would you be likely to hear it anywhere, it's just something we use as shorthand speak. I guess it slipped out when I wasn't looking =p

I should have said Player Eleven vs Dealer Six.
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heather
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July 18th, 2011 at 4:24:03 PM permalink
Quote: odiousgambit

Yes, the WoO game does give you a pop-up letting you know when you goof, it's been good for me.



Windows actually used to come with a program like that, called Dr Blackjack, that taught basic strategy. It was right there next to Solitaire in your Accessories menu, and it let you know what your mistakes were when you made them. No idea why they took it out; it was a neat little feature. I'm not sure whether I've seen it on any OS more recent than Win95 (which did include it).
JuniorWiz
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September 3rd, 2011 at 1:27:56 PM permalink
Quote: dm

YES, you should really sit there with a color strategy card from WOO. And you will get to tell lots of people where you got it.



An excellent basic strategy trainer. About the only thing it doesn't let you set is resplitting aces and penetration. You will have to copy and paste, I can't figure out how to do links in this forum:

http://www.blackjackinfo.com/bst/bst.htm
JuniorWiz
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September 3rd, 2011 at 1:27:56 PM permalink
Quote: dm

YES, you should really sit there with a color strategy card from WOO. And you will get to tell lots of people where you got it.



An excellent basic strategy trainer. About the only thing it doesn't let you set is resplitting aces and penetration. You will have to copy and paste, I can't figure out how to do links in this forum:

http://www.blackjackinfo.com/bst/bst.htm
JuniorWiz
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September 3rd, 2011 at 1:29:05 PM permalink
OOPS< it double posted again, and I can't figure out how to remove one
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