Use the regular strategy with this 2:1 promo game?
Each hand is dealt out of a new 8 deck shoe
Blackjack pays 2:1
Dealer hits soft 17
No doubling
Split once
http://www.blackjackinfo.com/bjbse.php?numdecks=8+decks&soft17=h17&dbl=all&das=no&surr=ns&peek=yes
Obviously you'd hit where it says double.
The Wizard says this game has a .04% house edge. However, since it's so close to being positive, I think an exact calculation using every single parameter would be needed to know exactly what it is within .01%. Remember, the effect on the house edge on that rules chart of his is based on a different game than this one; saying that rule y is worth x% across all games is false. The Wizard is busy though I'm sure, so he won't do a custom calculation just for this game, but I'm curious.
Then add the effect of the 2:1 bonus by calculating the probability of hitting a BJ (and dealer has no BJ), and consider the 0.5 bet bonus.
Quote: MangoJYou should find a calculator of house edge for those rules with normal 3:2 payout.
Then add the effect of the 2:1 bonus by calculating the probability of hitting a BJ (and dealer has no BJ), and consider the 0.5 bet bonus.
Firstly, you forgot that no calculator has "no double downs", which Wizard says was worth quite a bit. Secondly, all of these house edge calculators are based on a base set of rules. I'm not sure how it all works exactly, but most rules, if not all, are worth more or less depending on the game's rules I think. With these calculators and Wizard's chart, it's all static, so even if it's within .02 or so for each rule for the most part, added up it could be close to .10 off if the game is unique enough. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong. And yes I am splitting hairs, that's the idea.
It's more likely to find a calculator without doubling, than to find a calculator with 2:1 payout.
The strategy is the same as the regular basic strategy with no DAS, hitting everywhere where it says "double", except standting on soft 18 that you'd otherwise double (still hit 9,10,A, obiously), and always stand on soft 19.
Quote: weaselmanIt's ~0.04% (I am getting 0.032% with infinite decks) PLAYER edge, not house edge.
The strategy is the same as the regular basic strategy with no DAS, hitting everywhere where it says "double", except standting on soft 18 that you'd otherwise double (still hit 9,10,A, obiously), and always stand on soft 19.
Did you use CVData? Because I got +.033% with 8 decks, reshuffling after it gets down to 405 cards left in the shoe (wouldn't let me choose only 1 hand played per shoe). That .001% is probably the difference between using infinite decks and then playing only 1 hand per shoe with 8 decks.
Quote: SilentBob420BMFJDid you use CVData?
No, I calculate it myself.
Quote:
Because I got +.033% with 8 decks, reshuffling after it gets down to 405 cards left in the shoe (wouldn't let me choose only 1 hand played per shoe). That .001% is probably the difference between using infinite decks and then playing only 1 hand per shoe with 8 decks.
I am not sure what method your program is using. If it is a simulation, then the number is obviously inexact. If it calculates the result analytically, then it is, probably the result of a rounding error (both in my calculation and in yours).
Quote: weaselmanNo, I calculate it myself.
I am not sure what method your program is using. If it is a simulation, then the number is obviously inexact. If it calculates the result analytically, then it is, probably the result of a rounding error (both in my calculation and in yours).
Either way, this game is positive, which is exactly why I made this thread, instead of just finding some generic "no doubling is worth -x%" rule. And yes it is a simulator, but with 250,000,000 hands, I think we can assume it's going to extremely accurate. Rounding would be far more of a factor.
Is that blackjack game only available on saturday's? I looked around dimes and couldn't find it. I did however find a 4 deck blackjack with 2:1 on black jack, no double, no split, dealer stands on soft 17, and late surrender. It is very similiar to yours, except i believe you can split once with yours and dealer hits soft 17. If you could let me know about your game, and what you think of mine that would be great. I know dimes is offering the lowest edge on casino games compared to most if not all online sites, I am just trying to find the best game I can play on their site. Any help from anyone would be much appreciated.
Quote: chief42Hey Bob,
Is that blackjack game only available on saturday's? I looked around dimes and couldn't find it. I did however find a 4 deck blackjack with 2:1 on black jack, no double, no split, dealer stands on soft 17, and late surrender. It is very similiar to yours, except i believe you can split once with yours and dealer hits soft 17. If you could let me know about your game, and what you think of mine that would be great. I know dimes is offering the lowest edge on casino games compared to most if not all online sites, I am just trying to find the best game I can play on their site. Any help from anyone would be much appreciated.
Yes, only on Friday afternoon from 1-7 CT. That game you found sounds better, but there's no way it is. From what I've seen with their video poker, with one of their JOB games offering 976 for a Royal Flush, making it exactly 100.000% payback, they know what they're doing. However, I wouldn't be surprised if that game you found only has like a .1% house edge. The question is, what's better: 8 decks + H17 + split once or 4 decks + S17 + no split + late surrender? Sounds like the latter, but I doubt it is. Either that or you missed a rule. I'll look into this later.
If your curious about the game I am playing, it is on the bonus page, scroll about 2/3 of the way down and you will see there is a 2:1 game. It is version number 1. As far as the rules for that game, I believe they are pretty accuarte. Let me know what you think?
Use the regular 8-deck strategy, but hit where it says double, except stand on soft 18 vs 3 to 6.
After each hand played, a new 4 deck shoe is shuffled and dealt
Blackjack pays 2:1
Dealer stands on soft 17
No double down
No splits
Late surrender available
Insurance pays 11:5 (Most of their games offer this, does this make it worth it?)
Quote: SilentBob420BMFJWizard, could you tell us the effect of not being able to split? Because this non-promotional game this guy found sounds really good, but unless 5Dimes made a mistake, it can't be positive. I'm hoping it's not positive, because this game is boring as hell with no doubling or splitting.
After each hand played, a new 4 deck shoe is shuffled and dealt
Blackjack pays 2:1
Dealer stands on soft 17
No double down
No splits
Late surrender available
Insurance pays 11:5 (Most of their games offer this, does this make it worth it?)
Bob, have you had a chance to look at all the games offered on dimes for blackjack. Did you find any other game on there besides the 2:1 I mentioned that are better odds, or is that the best one? if the wiz is better suited to answer this, then by all means please do so. Thanks.
Quote: chief42Bob, have you had a chance to look at all the games offered on dimes for blackjack. Did you find any other game on there besides the 2:1 I mentioned that are better odds, or is that the best one? if the wiz is better suited to answer this, then by all means please do so. Thanks.
Yes he should analyze that game, as we don't know the cost of not being able to split.
I haven't looked for blackjack, because for video poker, I noticed they have some really odd pay tables, which many that look bad and many that look good end up being at least 99.5% or higher, so that means they know what they're doing. You don't just do something weird like offer 976 for a Royal Flush for no reason. Which BTW, that 976 for a Royal game? 100.000% payback. So I highly doubt they have a positive game that isn't a promo.
Also, the program I have for blackjack is only at my really old computer at my parent's house, not here. And besides, there are rules like surrender before and after splitting that I don't know if it can calculate. Good idea to offer odd rules, as we clearly are struggling to know if they're any good.
The house edge on the game you mentioned above is about 0.04% - virtually zero.
Quote: weaselmanThe cost of not being able to split (compared to split to 4 hands) is ~0.58% for S17 game (with DAS and otherwise normal rules).
The house edge on the game you mentioned above is about 0.04% - virtually zero.
Thanks for the info weaselman. What would be the correct strategey to use for this game? I think I'm going to give this game a shot, see if I can't make a few bucks.
Quote: weaselmanThe cost of not being able to split (compared to split to 4 hands) is ~0.58% for S17 game (with DAS and otherwise normal rules).
The house edge on the game you mentioned above is about 0.04% - virtually zero.
The problem is, this isn't a normal rules game. I think we'd want to analyze the cost of not being able to split to 2 hands on a game where you can't double at all. But that would make the house edge even lower, right? See how complex this is?
OK, I'm going over to my parent's house and using that blackjack simulator I have (can't figure out how to put it on my new laptop, as it has an activation code I can't find anywhere), which will definitely tell us the answer to this. I'm really hoping the game isn't positive, because blackjack on a computer is already super boring, let alone one where you can't double or split.
Quote: SilentBob420BMFJThe problem is, this isn't a normal rules game. I think we'd want to analyze the cost of not being able to split to 2 hands on a game where you can't double at all. But that would make the house edge even lower, right? See how complex this is?
OK, I'm going over to my parent's house and using that blackjack simulator I have (can't figure out how to put it on my new laptop, as it has an activation code I can't find anywhere), which will definitely tell us the answer to this. I'm really hoping the game isn't positive, because blackjack on a computer is already super boring, let alone one where you can't double or split.
I'm curious to see, did you find anything on this game ?
Quote: SilentBob420BMFJThe problem is, this isn't a normal rules game. I think we'd want to analyze the cost of not being able to split to 2 hands on a game where you can't double at all. But that would make the house edge even lower, right? See how complex this is?
No, the house edge I quoted above was computed for these exact rules.
Quote: chief42Thanks for the info weaselman. What would be the correct strategey to use for this game? I think I'm going to give this game a shot, see if I can't make a few bucks.
I don't see any reason why the regular BJ S17 strategy would not work, ignoring the splits (just do whatever is recommended for the points total), and hitting instead of double (except stand on soft 18 against 2-6).
Quote: weaselmanNo, the house edge I quoted above was computed for these exact rules.
I don't see any reason why the regular BJ S17 strategy would not work, ignoring the splits (just do whatever is recommended for the points total), and hitting instead of double (except stand on soft 18 against 2-6).
Oh, you were separately stating that not being able to split is worth -.58% normally, and then this game is worth -.04%. How did you get that number?
And as far as strategy goes, use http://www.blackjackinfo.com/bjbse.php and input the rules as close as you can. The biggest factors are decks and what/when you can double. Strategy changes basically are all about doubling.
